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Thread: Confused

  1. #1
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    Confused

    Hi I've been on this site for a while but never introduced myself . I'm 50 and was until a month ago was married for twenty years to a wife who fully encouraged my dressing we even went shopping together for clothes and makeup . but I came out gay which she knew before me . I don't find men attractive only transgender so I've now been with a few and now wondering if I am gay ? or more likely asexual probably from all the abuse I suffered as a child . I still feel real shame about dressing as my mother use to dress me up as my uncle didn't like raping boys .So here I am with my wife/best friend gone and now im certain I'm asexual and ashamed of dressing . Sorry for the rant im just so lonely and confused

  2. #2
    Senior Member Kay J's Avatar
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    Welcome Georgia glad you been around here but i am a little confused too but i sure wish you the best of luck!

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    Senior Member phili's Avatar
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    Hi Georgia,
    Welcome, and please keep talking...you have been through hell and maybe have not yet found the door, but you can see the light is on outside. I think confusion is when we have murky understandings of our own preferences, values, or \priorities, or conflicting urges within us or demands from outside. So the more we talk it through, the more we begin to notice that certain configurations feel more peaceful- and that is the path out of confusion.

    For example, asexuality is one thing, crossdressing desire is another, and shame as one of the terrible misunderstandings of experience by sexual abuse victims is yet another. They are related but not in lockstep.

    By way of example, perhaps your divorce, if based on your saying you were gay, can be renegotiated or restored, if that turned out not to be true. Every element of relationship is a negotiation, and the rules of negotiation apply. You will be relieved of shame by fully articulating the many false,deceptive, and manipulative elements of negotiation involved in the sexual abuse. Any choices you may have made for less than sterling reasons are also in the past, and you are free in the here and how to let them go, taking the lesson to heart and creating new relationships that are mutually respectful and caring.
    We are all beautiful...!

  4. #4
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Georgia,
    I feel you need to seek the help of a counsellor to sort this complex question out . It touches on my own therory that we are influenced by outside agencies , your natural tendencies have been overlaid with someone elses sexual needs . Also the dressing has been associated with sexual activity you will have to become comfortable with , that maybe something you will have to live with .

    At the moment you feel shame and guilt , that is also again where a counsellor can hopefully help . The bottom line is if you don't resolve these issues they will only get worse , age does not cure in these circumstances , the elephant in the room will just get bigger .

    Your sexuality isn't a problem as long as you are comfortable with it , try not to get hung up on the labels .
    Last edited by Teresa; 02-07-2020 at 10:44 AM.
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    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    So here’s the thing. There are trans men, and trans women, but trans itself isn’t really a gender. There are people who identify as gender fluid, bigender, etc, but trans is a descriptor of a gender. So for you to say that you’re “only attracted to trans” it likely means you have a preconceived notion of a combination of body parts that you’re fetishizing. You say that you’re “gay” but only attracted to trans. Does that mean you’re only attracted to trans men (I.e. assigned female at birth, transitioning to male)? If you’re attracted to trans women, then you’d still be straight because trans women are women.

    Asexual would mean that you have no desire for sexual relationships with either gender. It sounds like you need to ground yourself in the language and vocabulary first. Once you can communicate your needs you can begin to fulfill them.

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    I think Micki has hit some good points.
    You need understand the terms fully and thats why you are confused.
    Welcome by the way and do keep talking and getting all your questions on the table and lets discuss them.
    Lets not try to fall into the habit of blaming someone else for the way you are now.
    The reason you are the way you are is because of the choices YOU made.
    I'm gay but I don't blame it on my childhood or a family member its just who I am and there is nothing to be ashamed of.

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    Hi thank you for your reply's just to clear up some things I should've said I'm attracted to transwomen have been since I first learned of them . And I am going to a psychologist regular as its free here in New Zealand for sexual abuse victims . The X and I are still great friends but my lack of intimacy is what finally finished us . So I went out and slept with a few transwomen which wasn't as great as I thought it was going to be . Which has lead me to the conclusion that I'm asexual . And yes I do carry a lot of guilt as most abuse victims do . But it is something I'm conscious off and try to overcome it . I suppose I'm just ashamed of my crossdressing as a lot on here have admitted and disappointed that my transwomen fantasies didn't live up to my expectations

  8. #8
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    Hi Georgia , I am a genetic girl a "GG" and my ex husband was very much like you . He had alot of issues but his main one besides dressing was his attraction to MtF pre op trans women saw through an intense trans porn fetish . His grandmother would also dress him up when he was small . I have no idea how much if anything that had to do with his dressing as an adult but it started there for him . He is also pretty much on his own as far as I know . I wish he would've gone to counseling it may have helped him accept himself , he had alot of shame and guilt . I don't think I or anyone really knew him . He was very confused .
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  9. #9
    Member Marianne S's Avatar
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    Georgia, I'm sorry you had this terrible experience in childhood--one of the worst abuse scenarios I could imagine. And to cap it all, you've now lost your wife, who was also your best friend. This is all very tragic.

    As for trying to classify yourself in some "category" or other, you're not obliged to identify with any specific label. Here I agree in essence with what Micki said. You may possibly not have been born completely "straight arrow" in the first place, and who knows how that interacted with the effects of being habitually abused in this monstrously perverted manner. No wonder you've got so much confusion to overcome! I'm glad you're getting therapy; competent therapy, I hope.

    In particular, you don't sound as if you're "asexual," which describes a person who has very low sex drive of any kind, or none at all. Clearly you do have sex drive, since you find yourself attracted to transwomen (among others).

    Obviously too you're not "gay" either, since you said you don't find men attractive. So neither of those labels fits you.

    It's possible that the failure of intimacy with your wife is because you're not "completely" attracted to women either. However, it could just as well be that this failure of intimacy is due to inhibitions resulting from your abuse in childhood. Many people, whatever their sexual orientation, might be repulsed by sex with a man anyway after the trauma of being raped by one in childhood. And many people might have a phobia about letting themselves be "intimate" with a woman if they'd had the shocking childhood experience of a mother like yours. Who could ever emotionally trust a woman again? You did well to sustain a twenty-year marriage in spite of that. Hopefully you'll find therapy helpful in getting all this sorted out.

    In any case some people can't be classified as "straight" or "gay," or even "bisexual"--not exclusively anyway--but seem to have a kind of "mixed sexuality" in which they're sexually attracted--some of the time at least--to a combination of attributes of each sex. This is different from being "bisexual," which means a person can be attracted to either a man or a woman. It does fit what you're describing about yourself, insofar as some males for instance find themselves erotically aroused by the concept of a "phallic woman."

    Regrettably a number of people who "try out" having sex with someone "different" from their usual kind of partner--which could be another man, a crossdressed male, or a transwoman--do find the experience disappointing. Either the reality doesn't match the fantasy, or something "turns them off." Anyway sexuality in itself can be complex, quite apart from the effects of any past trauma.

    I hope therapy can help you. I'm glad you're still friends with your wife, and perhaps, as phili said, you may become closer again some day. Good luck!

  10. #10
    Aspiring Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    Georgia,

    Sorry about the length of this, but you are dealing with a very complex and serious problem that can be resolved comparatively easily with effort. So, please read on.

    I think you need to read closely the response from Phili and Teresa. For one thing, I sense that you may be confusing gender and sex or thinking of them as two parts of the same phenomenon. They are linked to a very limited extent, but for the most part gender is very different from sex. Sex is the biological function of reproducing and has attached to it certain emotional characteristics that Nature has stuck in there so we would be actually encouraged to engage in sex which is certainly not something that is obvious. It's complicated and so Nature made it easier for us by adding good feelings to the process to keep us thinking about it and pursuing it. Otherwise, the species might very well go extinct. So, that is not just in humans. That is an aspect of at least mammals. Probably some reptiles and birds might be included. Frogs and fish? Probably not. They are very far from being the brightest bulbs on the block.

    Gender is a general, widely understood behavior that expresses our internal sense of self. Gender is a part of who you are in 24/7 life. The proper gender terms in language is feminine and masculine with the proper sexual terms being female and male. They really should not be used interchangeably - the professionals avoid using them interchangeably. The terms are attached to different things and the corresponding gender term for the sex is there just because feminine is usually found in females and masculine is usually found in males. It is functionally coincidental, but there is very little causation in it. The neurological channels cross over just a tiny bit and not nearly enough to equate the sex and gender terms.

    No matter what culture one examines it has been found that those associations of gender and sex do not hold true in all people. Some people are completely gender reversed from what is expected. Others are partially reversed to different degrees. Sex is either/or (in most but not in intersex people who are that way because of genetic errors) and is referred to as binary because sex is determined completely by genetics. A gay person is attracted to people of the same sex but their sex remains the same. The gayness comes from their sense of self. It is the same process as transgender, but it flows through different channels than gayness does and almost independent channels from sex. Sometimes the flow is through both channels and you get a gay-transgender person. It is real but it can be confusing if one thinks in terms like gayness is about sex and transgender is about identity. But if you think of gayness as identity along with transgender the confusion vanishes and the conflict in concepts is resolved. And sex remains where it should be - a reproductive process controlled by completely different parts of the brain that are poorly connected to the parts that regulate the more conscious aspects of behavior.

    Of course gays can't reproduce. That does not matter to the neurology. Sex is a very basic and ancient urge that goes back about 2 billion years. It is mainly driven by instinct whereas gender identity and gay identity are driven by rational processes and are under strong influence from environment even though identity traits are first determined, in a rough outline, by genetics. Those rational processes did not exist until that last about 150 million years. And really didn't show up strongly until the last million years. The interplay of genetics, environment, and experience produces the conscious/subconscious sense of self that defines who you are as a person. There is very little instinct involved there. It is mostly rational.

    I think one of the big problems in Western Civilization is that because of long standing traditional beliefs there is this equating of sex and gender. We use the terms very loosely when in fact, the terms are really quite precise when it comes to examining the behavior in sex and gender. If you look at sex and gender as being almost separate entities that operate in very different ways in the brain and avoid the binary linkage of sex and gender, all the confusions and contradictions become resolved.

    Those are the "facts." But dealing with your emotions is a different matter all together. For that I think the suggestion by Teresa and others (and myself) is to seek a therapist to help you come to grips with the emotional turmoil you have. You won't be sorry. Been there, done that. It works very well if you are open to considering some changes in your thinking to produce a greater understanding of yourself and greater happiness in your life. Some refuse to make themselves vulnerable to alternatives - therapy rarely works for them. I have a daughter who is a therapist and has dealt with gay and trans people. She is well aware of how it works and we have talked in depth about not only the emotional aspects but the neurological aspects that are well understood as well as aspects that are still a bit mysterious.

  11. #11
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    I feel so sorry for you. You suffered grievously at the hands of your parents. Your father was a monster for what he did and your mother was a monster for pimping you to him. I don't know which is worse. There's a special place in hell for both of them.

    You need to see a counselor to help you sort through your crap. The first thing you need to do is love and accept yourself and get as far away from your parents as possible. The child doesn't owe the parents A SINGLE THING, you least of all.

    But that may or may not have been the cause of our crossdressing. Through your counseling, you will either drop the dressing as being unnecessary, or you will embrace it and love it as a part of you.

    I so wish you can find your way out of the crap you have been through. Nobody deserves it and you have suffered the nightmares long enough. Keep posting about your progress.

  12. #12
    Member Marianne S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzanne View Post
    You suffered grievously at the hands of your parents. Your father was a monster for what he did and your mother was a monster for pimping you to him. I don't know which is worse. There's a special place in hell for both of them.
    Sorry to interrupt, Suzanne, but purely in the interests of justice I'd like to point out that Georgia told us it was her uncle, not her father, who raped her.

    I wonder if it was even a real "uncle" of Georgia's--or a sleazy boyfriend of her mother's who was introduced as an "uncle," which is deplorably common. She may choose to tell us. While some fathers are certainly (and shockingly) guilty of sexually abusing their own children, I understand that biological fathers are statistically the least likely to do so. Other family members--including uncles of course--are far more likely to abuse. For instance I knew a woman whose aunt who was raped at the age of eleven by her sister's husband. That was all covered up by the family. But stepfathers, who are not blood relatives but have unlimited access to the child, are guilty far more often than real fathers.

    As for female sexual abusers, there are far more of those than most people realize, or are willing to admit. (A male neighbor of mine was molested at the age of five by two teenage girls--and in a church, no less, where his father was the pastor! His wife told me this; he could never have admitted it himself to just anybody.) One feminist author, Patricia Pearson, noted that estimates of female sexual abusers of children range upward from 25 percent and more of all cases. Females are often subtler in their methods of sexual exploitation, or derive a perverted vicarious gratification from assisting a male to perpetrate abuse. The most horrifying example is a woman like Karla Homolka.

    But where male abusers are concerned, one survey of adult women showed that only one in forty of these women, or 2.5 percent, had been sexually abused in childhood by her biological father. Meanwhile 17 percent, more than one in six, had been abused by a stepfather. Worst of all, the figures were far higher still for children abused by scummy boyfriends of single mothers engaging in loose relationships.

    Georgia hasn't told us where her own father was at the time--divorced, perhaps?--but I'd hate to see an innocent person get blamed for such a ghastly crime.

    Apart from that, the rest of what you said I heartily agree with! Child sexual abuse is psychologically most damaging of all when it's perpetrated, not by a stranger, but by the very person a child is compelled to trust most of all for protection and sustenance. This sets up all kinds of confusion and conflicts in the child's mind. That applies to fathers especially, when they are guilty of abuse, but mothers as well, when they don't just "fail to protect" a child by conniving at the abuse, but actively participate in it, as Georgia's mother did. That's one heck of a lot for a child to deal with.
    Last edited by Marianne S; 02-07-2020 at 03:42 PM.

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    You are going to need lots of counseling. Please get it. Your family's actions/inactions have definitely effected your ability to form relationships and your expressions of sexuality. Get help before it becomes destructive

  14. #14
    Member MeshelleCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    Georgia,
    I feel you need to seek the help of a counsellor to sort this complex question out .
    I agree with Teresa. This forum is convenient, but after reading the about the abuse you suffered, I would recommend you seek out a professional that deals with helping people recover from the sexual assault they suffered as a child would help you immensely.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator char GG's Avatar
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    Just to clarify, this is what Georgia posted:

    And I am going to a psychologist regular as its free here in New Zealand for sexual abuse victims .

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    Thank you everyone for all your response's you've really put a lot of thought and effort in and I do really appreciate it !! First thing my Father never knew this went on he was a loving father . He was my real uncle and what really pisses me off is that I'm named after the mongrel . The abuse started when I was four with a family friend and then another there where 4 all together .It stopped when I was 8 when my mother left us and shifted to the other end of the country .I remember coming home from school and she'd emptied the house and left .We didn't know where she had gone for over a month . At this stage I'd blocked out all memory of it but looking back it came out as violence I beat up a lot of people and stole things and lots of vandalizing I was so angry at the world I gave up on school and started listening to hardcore punk rock as I could identify with the anger . Then came all the tattoos Mohawk over twenty facial piercings . Looking back it was big f@%k off to the world and leave me alone .Luckily the violent stage didn't stay long but when I stopped I started on myself all the usual cutting putting smokes out on myself smashing things against my head . I'm left with a lot of scars and some serious lumps on my head plus a stack of tattoos that I hate . I use to also punish myself in lots of different ways smashing up favourite possession's not allowing myself to go places or buy things I wanted . I first got counselling in my mid twenties after my first suicide attempt I knew my mother was to blame for all the viscous beatings id get and abandoning me but hadn't twigged to the sexual abuse yet . I had a few more attempts at killing myself and became a drunk which my and three kids and wife didn't mind as I was a happy drunk . When I was sober I was still a very angry person but had no idea why . It wasn't until my wife left me the first time that I seeked professional help and after a lot of sessions the psychologist yelled at me why do you drink so much ?? It dawned on me two days later I drink to forget so I gave up drinking and all the memories came flooding back over a six month period im positive there's more . So at about 47 my anger had subsided the wife and kids moved back in and now have a great relationship with them . I still suffer really bad anxiety and depression all symptom's of Post traumatic stress disorder . So now at 50 im starting a new life which is exciting and scary at the same time I don't think I want another partner all I want is to be at peace with myself . Which after a lot of hard work im slowly getting there
    Last edited by Georgia K; 02-07-2020 at 11:45 PM.

  17. #17
    Gold Member alwayshave's Avatar
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    Georgia, Welcome to the forum. You really need to talk someone about this who specializes in gender and sexual issues. At this point your just feeling your way through this. You need someone to help you see.
    Please call me Jamie, I always_have crossdressed, I always will, "alwayshave".

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    I am hoping you are receiving adequate psychiatric help and counseling. Childhood trauma is still an emerging field, but amazing strides are being made in helping the victims of childhood abuse.

    You carry an enormous burden of trauma. No child should ever have been subject to such hideous abuse and no human could emerge unscathed from such childhood violation. The fact that you managed to sustain a relationship with a woman for 20 years suggests that you are a very good person. The fact that the marriage failed is not your fault...its the fault of those who preyed upon you. You are alone and confused because of the harm inflicted upon you by those vile adults who corrupted your childhood.

    You can be helped to overcome what you?ve experienced. A competent behavioral health professional can help you separate yourself from the pain and suffering inflicted by people in your past. And they can help you define yourself as something other than a sexual object for consumption by others. You should not and do not need to define yourself by sexuality, nor the way others abused you.
    Last edited by kimdl93; 02-08-2020 at 09:36 AM.

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  19. #19
    Silver Member LilSissyStevie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Georgia K View Post
    I don't find men attractive only transgender so I've now been with a few and now wondering if I am gay ? or more likely asexual...
    The $10 word for being attracted to TGs is gynandromorphophilia (GAMP). It's not really gay and it's not really straight or bisexual. It's just GAMP. Another concept that may apply here is analloeroticism which refers to not being sexually attracted to anything outside of ones own self. For example, someone who would rather fantasize about sex than actually participate in it with others unless using them as props in the fantasy. I sometimes see analloeroticism associated with asexuality but I would think that asexuality is a type of analloeroticism rather than the other way around. Autogynephila (AGP, arousal by the thought of oneself as feminine or female) could also be considered a type of analloeroticism.

    I, too, suffered trauma and abuse as a child but I was never sexually abused by adults. I was, however, molested several times by older girls who, it turns out, were being molested by adults. They were acting out their own abuse on me. I can't honestly say that I was particularly traumatized by it at the time. I actually enjoyed it. But I see now how it, along with the other physical and emotional abuse I was experiencing, messed me up sexually. I spent most of my life trying to be "normal" or hating myself because I wasn't. But, I'm not trying to fight it anymore. I'm not hurting anybody so I don't have to feel any shame if I don't want to. Therapy, and I had years of it both in and outpatient, never did me any good because they were trying to fix me and I wasn't broken, just different. I had to figure out this stuff on my own. But your mileage may vary.
    Last edited by LilSissyStevie; 02-10-2020 at 01:41 PM.

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    Thank you lilsissysteve I've never heard of these terms before but I certainly do identify with some of them .Thank you for taking the time to wright this much appreciated and has given me lots pf food for thought

  21. #21
    Life is more fun in heels Genifer Teal's Avatar
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    I think there's a few issues going on here. To focus on the gay part, what's in your fantasies? Who do you dream about having sex with or do you dream about having sex at all? What pictures do you save on your phone? These are all questions to ask yourself. They will help you understand what you really want and that is what matters most. Everything else is just a label. Don't let a label Define who you like.

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    Hi Genifer after a lot of soul searching I figure im straight ? but some days I cant stop fantasizing about trans chicks . So I think the safest thing for me to do is stay single and learn to enjoy my own company and see what unfolds

  23. #23
    New Member Janica's Avatar
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    Hi Georgia I am not as intelligent and articulate as the other responders and cannot offer any guidance. I just wanted to say how horrible for a mother to do that to her own child. I hope you find peace. I hope you find a companion and lover to make your days and nights happier. I am praying for you...and your mother.

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    Hi Janica thank you for responding and I?m pleased to say yes I think I?m finally finding peace and also finding myself . my sister commented today how much calmer I am now !

  25. #25
    Aspiring Member Maid_Marion's Avatar
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    Hi Georgia,

    Good to hear you are feeling better now.

    Marion

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