1!1=?

[KlaireLarnia]

1+1=?

I am curious, when I read on here I often see people state about going En Femme or As A Woman (with ?drab? representing normal male clothing), and with this comes phrases like "be able to be Jane" or "going out as Jane" or "As Jane". It is something I have often struggled to grasp and why I largely kep silent because I don?t get it.

So my question is, do people see themselves as 2 people. The male who is ?normal? and what people expect in Real world and the female who is?. I don?t know? someone else. Do you change your mannerisms, your attitudes, your voice, your walk, your body language when you are dressed up rather than remain as you would be as a man. If so which is the person you prefer to be?

I ask this not to be awkward or poke fun or criticise but because in my life there is no distinction between me / the clothes I wear / who I am. I could be in a suit and tie, Jeans & T-shirt or a dress and still walk, talk and act the same way as I do. At work today whilst in a long denim skirt and floral top I was discussing an issue with a motor engineer on the phone and it was very down to earth like two drinking buddies in a pub ? because that is how you talk to engineers ? you keep it open, honest, frank and don?t pull punches. But this is also who I am at heart so it?s no issue ? the fact I was dressed in a very feminine outfit doesn?t change who I am or how I act/speak on the phone or in person. I go into the local shop dress in female clothes and I speak the same as I do if I was in jeans. ?Klaire? doesn?t exist per say, she is not a separate person in my life or someone who comes out at certain times. Her qualities and persona are part of me but not separate from me.

So back to my question: 1+1=? for me its 1 because 1+1 makes me whole.

[Micki_Finn]

In my case, basically yes. However, I’m a drag performer so it’s a little different than other people on here.

However some things NEED to be altered if you want to blend/pass. If you walk like a guy, move like a guy, and talk like a guy while dressed, it creates an incongruity that makes you stand out more.

Also, sometimes referring to ones fem presentation is just a linguistic short cut. “This shirt would be great for Micki” is easier than “this shirt would be great for when I’m crossdressed.” It also creates verbal subtlety when out in public.

There are some here who view their “fem self” as a different person/persona, but I think you’re reading too much into what ultimately amounts to communicative laziness.

[Michelle1955]

1+1=1 and 1+1=2. We are all in someways a little different. Research goggle the various definitions of non-binary. At my age 64, I’m probably 65% F & 35% M in my brain = 100% , but appearance wise it is flipped on %’s.

[Rachelakld]

I doubt it's DNA
My DNA says I should love Pizza (yes I do) but going further back my DNA says I should love rice - not going to happen.
DNA would imply my dad, granddad, uncles etc should also be cross dressing (okay, my sister wears jeans - doesn't count)

[Stephanie47]

Over in the media section Sometimes Steffi posted on 2/17 a link to a Newsweek article about "a genetic component to gender dysphoria." Food for thought. A bit more complicated than figuring out where one's blue eyes or blond hair came from.

[Robertacd]

Honestly no, I am the same person DRAG or DRAB.

In some ways you can't help doing things a little differently. Like when walking wearing a dress, shape ware, breast forms, and heels. It's hard to just clomp along like some guy.

But then I am not trying to pass as anything besides a Transwoman. I don't care if anyone realizes that I am actually a GM.

[kimdl93]

I do not see myself as possessing two identities. I suspect most people use the convention of referring to themselves in that third person sense as a convenience...to differentiate from when they present in male mode and name. I have the luxury of having a female name on my birth certificate, so I really do not need that contrivance.

that does not mean I don?t try to accentuate my femininity when presenting as a woman. I do manage my voice, to maintain a more passable vocal tone. And I probably allow myself a bit more freedom of movement as a woman, at least in comparison with my more self conscious male presentation.

[Victoria_Winters]

For me, I as a performer am working on learning more control over my voice so yes. I do alter my voice and some of my mannerisms while dressed. But I am still me just display a different side/and when on stage I have a ?stage persona?

[Helen_Highwater]

I see this as no different to being an actor on the stage. They are a person but events and situations require them to present different persona. I can understand the argument that we're a single personality, we are who or what we are but to deny that for many of us we have to live two separate lives, presenting two different characters is failing to acknowledge the obvious.

The constraints I live under require that I can't be Helen, in all her magnificence, all of the time. I manage my duality and I'm comfortable doing so. To not have this requirement would be much easier but that's not the reality of my life.

[Diane Smith]

I am one fairly well adjusted individual who happens to have a somewhat more complex than usual relationship with gender. However, referring to myself as "his name" or as "Diane" is a convenience when writing here as shorthand for how I am dressed and presenting externally at the moment. It doesn't have any deeper meaning to me.

- Diane

[Rachelakld]

I have co-consciousness.

It means I have multiple personalities (2 anyway) that are both fully aware of each other.
The male is the primary, female is the secondary
They both like very different stuff and when the need arises, we can "swap out the driver" so to speak.
When the baby cries, male doesn't care, female wants to rush over and fuss over the baby.
Male - doesn't like anyone (mechanic, car washer etc) touching his car, female always wants to call the mechanic (if she could afford it)

Single entities seem the most common here, which surprises me as I don't understand why a man would want to dress up as a woman - unless they are just acting a part, but if they are just acting, why not Viking or super hero?

All my male "dress up parties" I have been in Viking/Roman or 1800's gentlemens clothing, even Freddy Krueger when I was into SFX, girl clothes didn't even come up as a possibility.

[KlaireLarnia]

I have co-consciousness.
Single entities seem the most common here, which surprises me as I don't understand why a man would want to dress up as a woman - unless they are just acting a part, but if they are just acting, why not Viking or super hero? .

In my case I have male and female traits in my personality. To allow me to be "whole" I need to let both out and be on show. To do that I find the easist way is to dress in female clothing and let that element express itself in terms of how I look and offer a "shell" to which the male side can exist and guide actions/mannerisms. Think like an Egg. The main part and the part which holds all the falvour, the essence and body of what an egg is and tastes like is the yolk, around it is the white which doesn't do much other than make the egg a complete package. Remove the white and the esssence of the egg exists but there is less of it, move the yolk and you have something which on it's own has no real purpose unless you put it with something else,

That's why I dress. I am the yolk, the white [dressing] makes me a the complete package. One can exist without the other but really you would never want it too.

----------------------------------------------

Thank you everyone else for the replies, it's interesting and to be honest not always the answers I was expecting. It's nice to have my eyes opened somewhat.

[susan54]

I am glad to see posts like this because I get the impression that those of us who are 'just' cross-dressers are being frozen out of this site, to the extent of being mocked for imagining we are not trans. I am male no matter how I am dressed and having a bra and forms does not change that. When I go out as Susan (as Susan, not being Susan) it simply describes a presentation, and all the time I am out I am acting, just as others here have said. I am me no matter how I am dressed. In 3 weeks I have a four-hour round trip with a woman friend and as we will be on our own in the car I will use my own voice and gestures - there will be no acting even though I will be dressed to the nines in womenswear. I call myself a gender tourist. In fact the clothes and perfume are the only aspects of women I envy and I can access both of these as a man so I have it all. On Wednesday I went shopping in boutiques far from home in tights, ballet pumps and a skirt but presenting as a man so I do not feel I have to do the whole look every time I go out but I am happy to admit it is more fun if I do. That is all Susan is - fun - not another personality.

If I claim on this site that I am doing this for fun and am not trans I get mocked. I don't get mocked for wearing a dress on the street. It seems that if I am to be mocked for the way I dress I only need to post this on a site aimed at cross-dressers. How ironic. Anyone posting on here telling someone they are not a real woman and if they think they are they are deluded would be banned from the site. But telling a man he is deluded for believing he is still a man if he wears a dress is apparently fine. The logic of this escapes me.

[Krea]

I do not consider myself as having separate male and female "persona". It is not a case of in male-mode i am Nick and in female-mode i am Krea. (I chose that name for anonimity earlier in my time here and now some of you know me by that name i can't be bothered to change my user id....)
I am me all the time. I do not identify as specifically male or female, but somewhere in-between. What i wear does not change who i am underneath the clothes.

[Aunt Kelly]

Susan, please provide a link to a thread wherein you were mo ccx ke for being "just a crossdresser". No one here is "just" anything. I don't doubt your assertion, but insecurities abound in this community, and those can give rise to "not trans enough" just as easily as they can produce overreactions for some perceived ed slight. So let's sort this out.

[susan54]

Aunt Kelly

I stress that this post is not criticising you - you just asked for more information.

I forget where it is - it was a few weeks ago. It was a quote from my post where I had said that I was a man who dressed as a woman, then I added "I am not trans". The quote was surrounded by laughing emojis. What I should have done was complain to the mods at the time. But this is the first time I have made a post on this subject and not had it disputed - there are too many people on this site who claim to know more about me than I do. There are posts on this thread from members who say they are just acting, which is the same for me. I am fed up of having my motivation questioned by people who have never met me. If you are acting in a play or a film you have a part, which can involve a different costume, voice and mannerisms and, of course a name. That does not mean you have psychological issues related to the part you are playing. Sometimes it is just fun - compulsive - but fun. It is clear that there are others like me even on this thread, but there are others on here who would deny our existence, and it is to them I would direct questions about motivation. If I stay on this site (and I am opening fewer and fewer threads) I will certainly report the next person who denies the validity of me identifying as male when dressed up - it is no less offensive than denying the validity of anyone identifying as female and should be treated accordingly. The real problem, though, will be for any man in my position trying to explain his motivation to his partner. She will come on this site and find that other cross-dressers maintain such people do not exist, making her husband deluded or a liar. Thanks for that. This is the first time I have gone near labels since the emoji troll. I have my own label. I am a gender tourist. I am equally happy with cross-dresser as long as no one requires this to have gender identity issues. I like to look good in these clothes but they are just a costume - I am still exactly the same person inside the costume. Exactly the same - which means a man. Does wearing a clown costume mean you identify as a clown? Does wearing a Dracula outfit mean you are convinced you are undead? Of course not. Obviously there are many on this site who have different reasons for wearing what society regards as womens' clothes. I am not criticising those who really have gender issues - just give those of us who do not a break too.

[Robertacd]

I don't understand why a man would want to dress up as a woman unless they are just acting a part

Well in my case I am Transgender.

BTW: This is not something I ever WANTED or chose to do for fun or eroticism, it's just who I am.

To say I am just acting a part is to say I chose to be this way.

[Stephanie47]

Single entities seem the most common here, which surprises me as I don't understand why a man would want to dress up as a woman - unless they are just acting a part, but if they are just acting, why not Viking or super hero?

I had a long loquacious thought formulated and got timed out again! Rats! Anyway, I do not understand all this myself. I do not have an answer as to why I feel the need to wear women's clothing and emulate a woman. I have made comments over the decade I've been here that I do not and never will wear women's pants/jeans. It's not me. I ascribed my comfort zone to the time period I was raised...the 1950's and 1960's. In my neighborhood women wore dresses. There was one women, a divorced woman-yikes, she was treated as toxic waste who wore pants. Pants and a divorced woman....shunned, shunned and some more. So, for me it's dresses. On the other side of the coin my wife, daughter and granddaughter at times during their lives have and still wear men's clothing for reasons other than sexual identity or expression. My skinny butt granddaughter finds young men's jeans fit better. Men's clothing is cheaper. My daughter wore men's jeans because they had pockets. And, were cheaper. My granddaughter has been given my old flannel shirts because they are warm and cozy. None of these women have any desire to emulate a man.

Do I have two personalities? No. When do I don women's clothing? What causes me to dig into the boxes of women's wear? Usually when I am under some sort of stress. Maybe someone will say I am escaping. Could be. Probably, because I feel absolutely fine in my male role. As a male I have not angst in the kitchen cooking or baking because some perceive those functions to be a woman's role. Of course, call me a chef instead of a cook, and, all is forgiven.

My fall back position for lack of another is what my PTSD counselor has said. She ascribes to the belief (no scientific evidence?) that each man and woman has some DNA of the opposite sex in their genetic profile. In some it is greater than others. That may explain the entire spectrum stuff floating around. Where do I fall? I suppose at the minimum range. Of course, nurturing comes into play. Societal norms and expectations come into play. Religion comes into play. Government and politicians come into play.

Also, Why would I want to dress up as a Viking (presumably not a shield maiden) if I am not of Viking heritage? I probably have more female DNA in me than Viking blood!

[GracieRose]

I'm one person. However that person was dealt a pesky Y-chromosome and never felt like her internal desires matched what society expected of anyone with a Y-chromosome. I found a wonderful girlfriend, we got married and had children. I suppressed my desires because it seemed like the right thing to do and I figured that they would go away. They didn't go away. If anything, they pushed back harder, the harder I tried to suppress them. It took me more than 50 years to admit that they were not going away and that I need to accept them or go crazy.
However, my wife is the only one that knows about this. It's not just about me, others are affected by what I do. My wife would be embarrassed if others found out and so I continue to act like a guy most of the time in front of others that know me (or think that they know me). But I also allow myself to dress and act as I want when I can get to places where I am unlikely to be seen by someone that knows me and not with my wife (which might blow my presentation if seen with me by someone we know).
So when dressed as I like, I don a wig, makeup, earrings, and clothing that I would wear all the time if I had the opportunity. I go by Gracie and speak a bit softer so that I can blend as much as possible (I prefer not to draw attention to myself). When dressed like a guy, around home with others that have known me as a guy, I stick with my given name, and the drab clothes that others expect to see so that I can blend as much as possible (once again, I prefer not to draw attention to myself). Although it seems like it could be 2 people, they are both the same person, just hiding behind society's expectations. I have started letting some subtle feminine clues sneak into my male disguise. It seems to help temper the dysphoria. But the presentations will remain distinct, as long as the woman that I love is uncomfortable with me presenting the way that I would like to, all of the time.
Perhaps a long wordy response, and not necessarily the best summary. However, my attempt to how my 1+1 really =1.

[Paulie Birmingham]

. Anyone posting on here telling someone they are not a real woman and if they think they are they are deluded would be banned from the site. But telling a man he is deluded for believing he is still a man if he wears a dress is apparently fine. The logic of this escapes me.

Very spot on observation.

[Jacqueline Vivaldi]

If my happiness were the only consideration, I would dress en femme exclusively. However, I have been married a long time and Jacqueline is a known quantity but not supported. As a couple we have a very rich and loving life. After having considered all of the options, we compromise and accept our own different perspectives. It works well, but not perfectly because I long to dress full time.

As a consequence, when I dress as a woman, I am a woman in every way, and clearly have a different personality, mannerism, and voice. When I am a guy, I intentionally am a guy, and no one would ever know any difference. I have a fine lifestyle and enjoy my time as a man. The reality is that the woman is always in my in my heart, spirit and brain. I compromise because of the total benefits of both lives. Were I to think only about me, the guy would disappear.

[SaraLin]

So my question is, do people see themselves as 2 people. The male who is ?normal? and what people expect in Real world and the female who is?. I don?t know? someone else. Do you change your mannerisms, your attitudes, your voice, your walk, your body language when you are dressed up rather than remain as you would be as a man. If so which is the person you prefer to be?
.

I won't pretend to speak for anyone but myself. That leads to all kinds of trouble...

In the beginning, I was trying desperately to hide/deny/bury anything about myself that was feminine.
It didn't work, of course. So then I only allowed "her" out in tightly controlled situations and talked about the girl inside me as if 'she' were a separate personality.
It sorta worked, but it was tearing me apart inside - and there was still a lot of "leakage" between the two.
With time and a lot of self-work I have managed to blend the different aspects of myself into a single whole rather than keep trying to split myself in two.

These days, I refer to "Sara" or "her" only as an -um- semantic tool. It's clearer when I say I'm Sara today than to say that I'm choosing more typically feminine clothing and/or behavior than masculine.

NOW- do my mannerisms, voice, etc. change when I'm fully dressed? I'm told that I do. My voice softens. I move differently. and of course, I don't sit with spread legs when in a skirt. Most of this isn't by deliberate effort, it just happens naturally. I've even gotten grief from my semi-DADT wife for acting too "swishy" on a few occasions, and have to watch out that I don't get TOO feminine for her comfort.

Which would I prefer? Well, for me the choice would be a "normal" female - but reality has dictated otherwise and I have to accept that my body and soul will continue to be out sync with each other for the foreseeable future - probably the rest of my life.

[Krisi]

I was born male and remain male to this day. Strapping on a pair of boobs and a wig does not change my personality or beliefs. Wearing boobs does not change my political views or my choice of music.

However, when dressed as a female, I try to walk like a female, talk like a female and act like a female. Why? Because I'm playing a part. When I walk down the street or through the mall, I don't want people to see me as a man in a dress, I want them to see me as a woman.

Some of us are different, but that's what I do and why I do it.

[Meghan4now]

So, when I dress in a shirt and tie versus jeans and work boots, my essential personality does not really change, but my expression may modify a bit, and certainly the way I approach an activity. Who wants to ruin their cloths by stepping in the creek or moving a bale of hay?

When I dress, there is a bit of an act, there is somewhat of a change in appropriate actions, and there is also for me, an amplification of certain personality characteristics.

In the long run, there is only one me. But I have different expressions of who that is at different times. Can a generally happy person express anger or fright and not be the same individual.

[Teresa]

Klaire,
This is what dysphoria is all about , not being happy with some or all aspects of the male part . Some of us can go out fulltime or possibly 99% as a woman , I can't speak for others but I feel perfectly NORMAL as Teresa . I accept there still is the small part of that has to be male to satisfy a few family members , so at the moment I can't say I'm 100% whole , I have separate parts which I hope with time will become ONE .

As for changing from one to the other , yes it does happen but the changes are subtle , it is not an act because an act can't be sustained . I look at it from a different angle , there are feminine men and masculine women so I'm going to slot into that mix somewhere , it's all about finding your identity .

I agree if you've spent most of your life in male mode you are more conversant with a greater range of technical issues and it's easy to slip into that way of thinking and talking , in that respect I will never have the same abilities as a woman because at my age I won't be able to experience them all but I will add I'm having a great time learning .

Perhaps I've been here too long but I'm beginning to understand more and more the comment , " Don't overthink it !!"