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Thread: At a crossroad

  1. #1
    Member kimberly c's Avatar
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    At a crossroad

    I have been dressing since childhood and all throughout my marriage. My wife has been accepting and has let me dress anytime I can wanted to now she has done a 180 not wanting me to dress. I'm devastated and don't know what to do. I'm retired and I think I pushed the limit dressing up too much. She still let's me wear panties and girl jeans. I can have purged some clothes but not all I can still have lots of outerwear and lingerie. She has not asked me to get rid of anything so I'm confused. I really miss wearing my bra and breast forms. She saw pictures of me dressed when she got our phones up graded, that started the ball rolling against dressing. I'm really sad because I love being feminine.love Kimberly

  2. #2
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    Kimberly,

    Have you been able to identify exactly what brought about this change? If you dressed when you liked I assume she saw you enfemme so what was it about the pictures that prompted her to react in the way she has?
    Who dares wears Get in, get out without being noticed

  3. #3
    Member MaryAnn1963's Avatar
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    There must have been a trigger at some point. It is hard to tell what makes people reach their threshold. I really hope you get things worked out....

  4. #4
    Aspiring Member Maid_Marion's Avatar
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    It may take some time for her to process what she saw. Perhaps the breast forms, but we don't really know, unless she talks about it. It may also be the pink fog, in which dressing becomes the only thing you do. She may have been ignored. We don't know.

    Marion

  5. #5
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    Unless she is willing to talk openly and candidly you will never know what caused the 180. I'd suggest you both get into therapy with the same specialist, either together or seperately.

  6. #6
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Yeah. Without communication, probably facilitated by a professional, this unlikely to change for the better. Let her know that her feelings matter and that you want to understand hers as much as you want her to understand yours. Offer to let her choose the facilitator (a licensed professional).

  7. #7
    Aspiring Shopaholic BTWimRobin's Avatar
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    Hi Kimberly,

    Unfortunately, I don't have insight as to why your wife did a complete 180. Although, can share my experience.

    When I came out to my wife about my desires to dress with a feminine flair she was rather accepting of it. We established some guidelines for dressing when she's around. The basic rule is I can where anything I want as long as it is within reason and not over the top. Reason is defined as anything my wife would wear on a daily basis. So then I asked what is over the top or too much? She replied I don't know where the tipping point is. I will let you know when you hit it. It's for this reason I have been moving at a snail's pace.

    From the sound of your story you reached her tipping point. It appears a conversation might need to happen. It seems like she is comfortable with you wearing just panties and girl jeans. Remember, you could have been downgraded to tighty-whities and guy jeans.

    I hope everything works out for you.
    - Robin


    Because life is too short not to.

  8. #8
    Weirdest woman ever! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    R u looking for a solution for your problem or just venting, Kim? If venting we'll "boo hoo" with u.

    But, if u want solutions? You'll have to involve your SO! Either by direct discussion or with a therapist!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  9. #9
    Silver Member Crissy 107's Avatar
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    Kimberly, Unfortunately this happens, it happened to me and I have still not recovered. When I came out to my wife she was accepting and even gave me some nice hand me downs besides buying me some things. She was really into it and we used to wear matching panties which we showed to each other which led to some great sex and that went on for a good amount of time. Then all of a sudden she changed her mind and all she would say is she thought it was a phase. I told her no on the phase but from her perspective it was. I still get to do some things but the fun we had together is gone and so is the random, pretty wild sex, unfortunately.
    I am saying I did not push the envelope to fast, I am sure of that. It happens, for at least to me unknown reasons.
    I hope you get a better result then me and I am sure we are not the only ones here with this similar story.
    Last edited by Crissy 107; 03-08-2020 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Spelljng
    Crissy

  10. #10
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    Sounds as if you overwhelmed her. Perhaps there was much more added time being en femme since you retired. Even if you are not dressing anymore than before perhaps she sees much more than before. Sometimes a person is at a tipping point for some time and then one more thing just breaks the camel's back. Asking you to not dress in front of her or as much really has the same effect as purging somethings. Out of sight, out of mind.

  11. #11
    Reality Check Krisi's Avatar
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    She saw pictures of me dressed when she got our phones up graded, that started the ball rolling against dressing.
    OK, think about this. Having photos of you "dressed" means others might see them. What if you lose your phone or let someone else borrow it? It's also visual proof that "my husband dresses like a woman".

    I take lots of photos but I take them with a camera and immediately move them to a password protected USB drive. Nobody sees them but me.

    If you can't get her to talk about this (and there's a chance it won't turn out well if you do), my suggestion is to lay low for a while and then see if you can gradually reintroduce your female stuff over a period of weeks or months.
    Krisi

  12. #12
    Aspiring Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    All good suggestions and theories as to what changed. Triggers are often complicated. It sounds like it revolves around photos on your phone. Maybe it is a suspicion that it has become potentially connecting with others and what that might mean as far as what you are doing behind her back. Or maybe some pictures that exceeded her tolerance limit. But I think your comment that you recognize that you "pushed the limit dressing up too much." might be an even better answer. For some wives, once in awhile is fine, but it can be viewed as escalating and a fear that you will do that all the time and then want to transition. She may fear losing her husband to his becoming a woman and what that means in the relationship. If she is solidly straight she might be fearing the relationship becoming more lesbian which she is not.

  13. #13
    Member Star01's Avatar
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    Whenever I have purchased a new phone they would transfer my data. Is that what happened and did the cell store employee catch a glimpse of your private photos and that set her off? I could see that happening and causing her to draw a line in the sand because your shared private secret was exposed.

  14. #14
    Platinum Member
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    Well, it seems that she has a problem with you taking pictures of yourself en femme. Perhaps she is concerned about who sees those images. That?s understandable. It seems also, since she asked you not to get rid of anything, that she hasn?t closed the door on your dressing. So, the challenge for you is to begin and continue a conversation about her concerns.

    Easy come, easy go;
    Easy left me long ago...

  15. #15
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Kimberly,
    Taking pictures is a big deal for them , it's made it all very real , so many questions are then posed why do you want pictures and what do you intend to do with them ?

    She possibly thought your dressing was safely in the closet , only she knew and was able to deal with it but now you've moved the goal posts . She was obviously just tolerating your dressing but it was a step too far .

    I do try and see both sides of this but have you made it clear why you dress and truthfully where you would like to go with it , if you wish to keep dressing you need to make the point why you realluy need to do it and that its' not a hobby you can take or leave .

    Bottom line , it's time to be open and honest , also try and leave age out of it , it's not something we do grow out of .
    The real me ,no going back.

  16. #16
    Member kimberly c's Avatar
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    Hi, thanks for all the replies. I'm sure when she saw the pictures she was not happy. I had many pictures in all different clothes also in lingerie and even in wedding dresses. I also had pictures in store dressing rooms, I'm sure being out of the house dressed was a problem. I'm sure she thought I was sharing the photos I was not.i am currently going to take it slow and try to rebuild our relationship. Love Kimberly

  17. #17
    Member kimberly c's Avatar
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    Hi, wife is out today so it's time to dress a little . I could never give up dressing. I love being feminine and right now have my breast forms , bra and nightgown on. Maybe later some trying on some dresses . I still love being dressed as a woman .

  18. #18
    Senior Member NancySue's Avatar
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    I agree with MaryAnn...what triggered this change. After all this time, to jump from acceptance to rejection is unusual. I believe she owes you some reason for the change of mind. I would approach this slowly and with as much self control you can muster up. My wife is totally supportive. I don?t know what I?d do if she did a 180. Best wishes.

  19. #19
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    Yes look for a trigger or a changing state, I would work slowly at regaining the status quo.
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

  20. #20
    Member Marianne S's Avatar
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    Hi Kimberly,

    I suspect our good people here have already given you the answers you need about why your wife did this 180. Still, I can't resist offering you my own comments. It's nothing new, and I know this is extremely long!--my only hope is that you may be amused by the way I thought it through myself, in detail. To me it's often all about the way we think.

    I may be wrong about this, but if you've had trouble understanding your wife's reaction, that may possibly depend to the answer to this "deeply philosophical" question:

    Do you think of a smartphone simply as a kind of "Swiss Army knife"? Or as something more: more synergistic, let's say?

    There may be two answers to your own question, and the one that sprang immediately to my own mind was that this was a matter of time spent dressed. I can imagine that after a lifetime of work you'd be looking forward to all the wonderful spare time you'd have as a retiree--much of it enjoyably en femme! So sure, you might have overdone it a bit, to your wife's discomfiture. You might need to scale back.

    By all means ask your wife how she feels about that! Do communicate! Do dare to ask leading questions--to give her an opening to formulate the answers that she may find hard, or embarrassing, to formulate herself.

    But then you got to how the real trigger for your wife's reaction appeared to be finding those photos on your phone. Now that had me scratching my head to start with, because I was faced with a possible contradiction. So I can't pretend I'm as instantly perceptive as some people here!

    I sure understand the urge to take selfies. I've got a bunch of pictures of myself, taken in various outfits to see how I looked in them. A couple are on my cellphone, but most of them I took years ago--with a 35mm, not with a cellphone--even though I have digitized many of them since, which are now on my laptop.

    So I was asking myself if it was the shock of seeing you fully dressed, all dolled up complete with bra and breastforms (as opposed to just panties and girl jeans) that upset your wife so much. (Incidentally I don't wonder you're missing your bra. It's the bra that makes us feel fully feminine. That's been discussed here recently.)

    But I wasn't sure that was the explanation, since you said your wife used to "let" you dress any time you wanted to. Didn't that mean the whole nine yards, a dress or a blouse and skirt, nylons and heels, wig and makeup and everything deliciously feminine like that? If so, why would she be so shocked to see mere photos of you as a woman? It didn't make sense.

    So I'm grateful to others here for pointing to what I suspect is the true explanation. Just like Krisi, I've taken lots of pictures with a camera. Now a camera is a "tool." It does one thing: it takes pictures. She stores them on a digital medium, which is personal and private, just as I store mine on digital media--some on my laptop PC, my "personal" computer. The phrase "personal" computer of course originated to distinguish "personally owned, home" computers as opposed to large shared mainframes and the like serving organizational purposes. But the word "personal" also implies "privacy," and like Krisi, I certainly regard my PC and associated media as "private." I do not expect any outsiders to be snooping around my "personal" computer. Even my (sadly late) wife, bless her, didn't use it without asking me--since she had one of her own--though it would have been no problem, since we always trusted one another, and she too was happy to accept my dressing.

    I regard my cellphone the same way. It's mine; it's private, I don't lend it to others. I don't lose things much. I only ever "lost" a cellphone once--and got it back. Now and then I show people a photo or two on it, but what are the odds that anyone would see those few photos of me dressed on there? Even if they did, would they even recognize me? The picture you see in my avatar is standing on the oak coffee table in my living room, in full view of any friend or other visitor. To my immense amusement, nobody has ever recognized it as "me"!

    But how do we conceptualize a smartphone, a cameraphone? I got my first cellphone twenty years ago, and while it was cool to be able to call anyone no matter where I was, out walking or whatever, that was all it did: make and receive phone calls. Come to think of it, I guess it told the time as well. That's two things! Wasn't that enough?

    It started malfunctioning half a dozen years later--robust as it was, the fact that it fell on the ground while I was riding my bike at speed probably didn't help--and when it was time for a new cellphone I bought a RAZR, the latest thing at the time, because it took photos in addition! Hey, wasn't that neat? And if I remember correctly, I think it could text as well. That's four things!

    Ever since then, smartphones have improved so that today they're just like a Swiss Army knife. We all know what that is. It's a multitool. It's a knife all right--and that's how it started life, as a knife, before it evolved into something more. Today, it doesn't just "cut things" like any old knife! It's far more versatile than that. It has screwdrivers (Phillips as well), it opens cans, it bores holes, it's got pliers and tweezers, it saws wood, it files our nails, it guts the fish we've caught, it even pries stones out of horses' hooves! In short, it does everything under the sun! Gee, isn't that handy-dandy?



    A smartphone is the same way. It's a phone all right; it makes and takes calls, and that's how it started life. But today, it doesn't just make phone calls and send text messages. It tells us the time; it keeps our appointments; it reminds us where our friends live, and when their birthdays are; it pays our bills; it orders our groceries; it does calculations for us; it tells us anything we want to know, like "when was the Civil War?" "what is the meaning of 'synergistic'?" or "who is Kim Kardashian, and why the hell does she matter anyway?" It tells us where we are, and how to get where we're going; and if we can't drive there because our car has broken down (or because we had "one too many"), it will call Uber or Lyft to help us on our way. Incidentally, it takes great photos as well, even videos. That's just a bonus, one more function among many!

    I wouldn't mind betting that's how you think of your cameraphone. It's a great device for taking good photos and storing them for later perusal--among other things, such as making phone calls and whatnot. It's a "multitool." I couldn't help being reminded of this because I was out shooting with my daughter and some friends of ours a couple of weekends ago when I ran into a problem, and a good buddy of ours lent me a multitool off his truck to fix it.

    Despite my feminine side, which I grew to love, I'm sharing a deliberately "masculine" view here. It's about "tools," about mechanics, about the physical universe and how it operates. How do you get the barrel off a Steyr AUG to adjust the gas tube when some previous owner busted the release button off and you need a tool to pry it open? A screwdriver is a multitool in itself; it can do more than turn screws!

    Naturally I was grateful to the long-term friend who lent him his multitool. I was telling myself what an idiot I was for not keeping something of the kind in my own car. But that's not what I wanted to emphasize about the concept of a multitool. Rather, there were two other things.

    The first is that by sharing his multitool with me, he wasn't giving anything away about his own life--any secrets he might be keeping to himself, or sharing with his own wife, for instance. It was his tool, and for him, sharing was a perfectly safe thing to do in this physical universe we inhabit.

    The second is that when we use a Swiss Army knife, or any kind of multitool, we're only doing one thing at a time! We might be cutting string or unscrewing a screw, or paring our nails--but we're never doing all the same things at once! Although the knife "brings these tools together" for us in a design sense, these functions are still all separate, and isolated from one another. That's the nature of a Swiss Army knife.

    I repeat that this is a "more masculine" view: the separateness, the practicality in a physical world. The safety--and yes, the power--of possessing a multitool. We're glad to have such a thing at our command. We'd be happy to share it--lend it, that's to say--with anyone who needed it--because, after all, "lending" doesn't imply "giving anything away" that we can't afford to lose. Not in the physical world, at least.

    We don't necessarily see things from a "more feminine" view, however much we may be kidding ourselves.

    So to you, when you take pictures of yourself with your cellphone, that's all they are: pictures of yourself that are private, kept separate from anyone else--unless you choose to share them with anyone you trust! "Taking pictures" and savoring them may be a totally separate activity from textng or telephoning friends--let alone posting them on Facebook!

    It's just unfortunate that your wife may not look at a smartphone in quite the same way, simply as a "multitool" whose uses are separate from one another. To start with, I think women are more inclined than men to "integrate" things together, to "make connections" than men don't make--sometimes, bluntly, to muddle things together that ought to be kept separate! Anyway, as this applies to smartphones, it's the integration that counts. This is not just a collection of separate tools that we use one at a time, in isolation from one another. Oh no, it's far more than that. Because in many users' minds, the first thing they do after taking a photo or a video is to share it immediately with friends! Indeed, that's often the very purpose of taking photos in their minds! Not to study in isolation, but to share with others. To text or email, to ship off with Snapchat, to post on Facebook, or whatever.

    And this is the whole way that women especially think, because of the entire difference between women and men. Not the usual "yin and yang" nonsense about men being supposedly "active" while women are "passive," or any of that rubbish, none of which is true anyway! What is the true psychological difference between women and men? It is simply this: that in terms of evolution, men as a sex are adapted more toward survivwl in a physical universe, while women as a sex have adapted more toward survival in a social universe.

    Naturally, there's a huge overlap between the two. We all have to survive in a universe that's both "physical" and "social." Not to mention that individuals vary widely in their own adaptation, regardless of sex. Otherwise there would never be any of us crossdrssers, right?

    Just the same, I'm betting, along with others here--thanks to them for pointing it out!--that the reason your wife was so upset to see your photos on your cellphone is that she does not see a cellphone just as a "Swiss Army knife" that's handy to take photos for personal use--as well as doing many other useful things, all separate from one another--but as an integrated instrument whose functions, far from being "disconnected," are frequently related to one another. Most of all, to her it's not just a "mechanical" tool to perform physical functions, but a social tool, whose paramount purpose is to facilitate connections and relationships with others in the social world of the humans around us.

    "Synergy" of course is about the consequences when some things "come together." It's about how some things are "greater than the some of their parts." Certainly this is true of the social consequences of multifunctional cellphones.

    I get this idea, even though it's not the way I see it myself. I couldn't help being reminded of a woman many years ago, on a Web site very different from this one, about abusive relationships. She was assaulted in a parking lot by an ex-partner, who fortunately didn't hurt her too much, but he grabbed and smashed her cellphone. She was so upset about that little cellphone! At the same time, she felt she was making "too much fuss" about such a "silly" detail--as people in abusive relationships often minimize what's been done to them. I'd be pissed as hell too, if anyone smashed my property! But it's more than that. To her, the phone was her lifeline, both physically and symbolically, her connection to her support network in the social world around her--which she needed all the more when she was being threatened. To see it broken was a dusaster. In a social world, she was certainly not "making a fuss over nothing."

    Fortunately all this is far removed from your wife's situation, but the way we think--and the different ways we think, as men or as women--are nevertheless deeply embedded, whatever their implications. And let's be realistic, many of us here, despite our "feminine sides," were still born male, think in largely "male" ways--and don't think as women do.

    Often this results in unfortunate misunderstandings. To you, and to me, a smartphone may be a "Swiss Army knife" with all kinds of clever tricks that includes taking selfies of us we can later enjoy in privacy--or share only with those special people we trust. To your wife, quite possibly, a smartphone is a device for taking pictures she can immediately share and display to other friends, opening her up to connect with the world outside. But "sharing" of that kind always entails risks.

    If you did that, what would that mean to her? That the secret you'd shared between you, maybe had fun with (as my late wife and I did), would suddenly be revealed to the outside world? That could be embarrassing at least! you might be seeking male admirers as partners to "hook up" with? That you might want to transition into the outside world as a woman, instead of the husband she'd always known and counted on? How frightening might that be?

    None of these female fears are necessarily real, or even "logical." But they can arise nevertheless--even if only triggered by a "different way of thinking" about the concept of a smartphone, and the role it plays in our lives.

    I do urge you to explore these issues with your wife. It sounds as though you've had a good life together so far. With love and mutual understanding, I'm betting you can get this sorted out.

    I apologize for this being so long. I just hope I hit the nail on the head with the hammer of my Swiss Army knife--and didn't hit myself on the thumb, as I have done before!

    Good luck,

    Marianne
    Last edited by Marianne S; 03-16-2020 at 10:07 PM.

  21. #21
    Member kimberly c's Avatar
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    A little progress made as I asked my wife if I could wear a nightgown to bed. She said yes!! I'm taking it slow, wish me luck. Hugs Kimberly.

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