So, it's just clothes, right?

[DianeT]

While browsing the forums I frequently stumble on the argument "it's just clothes", generally coming from CDers making a point that CDing is a very normal thing to do, occasionally from GGs as well when they describe the activity of their CD significant other.
So, just clothes, right?
Let's say, panties, bra. Just clothes.
A pair of tights, a dress, shoes. Just clothes.
Rings, bracelets, necklace, earrings, a watch. Just clothes. Okay.
Done?
Well, for many crossdressers, the list extends a bit more.
Boobs. Just clothes?
Hip and buttocks forms, a garter. Just clothes?
Makeup, painted nails, wig. Just clothes?

It seems to me that when the list reached boobs, we slipped from dressing to transformation. Of course everyone may draw that fine line at a different level. In my personal case, as soon as I wear a pair of tights, or for that purpose any piece of female attire, it's not just clothes anymore, I'm starting an emotional journey that extends much beyond "just clothes".
Like a GG once said in a post: "Putting on women's clothing does not a girl make". Granted, however putting on boobs (or showing off your natural ones for the same illusion) seems a step farther than just a man wearing feminine apparel to his taste, and although it may not necessarily question your gender identity, it hints that your interest as a CDer goes slightly beyond the fabrics 🤔.
The argument "it's just clothes" for CDers going the full nine yards with forms, wig and makeup reminds me of its "it's for the comfort" sibling related to wearing panties rather male briefs, as it is a scientific fact that us males have such tender and delicate skin that cotton is poison ivy to us 😊.

Where do you draw the line yourself? When are clothes not just clothes anymore?

[banzini]

Once you get to adding boobs, its gone beyond clothes.

[lingerieLiz]

Just clothes???
I have never worn forms or chiclets except on rare occasions where women would probably do so also. I do admit to wearing foam cup falsies back in my teens, but many of the girls my age wore them too. I wear women's clothes the same as women do. I like the look of a woman. I wear a bra most days and yes my boobs do push against my top. I'm not full busted but have natural projection.

[Angela Marie]

I believe it is internal. The clothes don't effect the transformation. Once you accept your feminine self you move on to the presentation; which clearly identifies you as a woman. From my personal perspective it was the realization that my my female persona was a much larger part of me then I was previously wiling to admit.

[Teresa]

Diane,
It's a very debateable point , " It's not about the clothes !" is often a comment made here .

To a point I agree but then I consider them a window to the World of how we feel inside . I had this conversation with a couple in my painting group , the guy is gay with a husband and the GG in her mid thirties . I pointed out to the guy that being gay wasn't usually a visual thing whereas being TG is . My clothes make a statement about me as most people's clothes do but mine say I'm female to the RW .

It's funny but only this morning I was getting my breakfast before taking my dog for a walk , I glanced at the coat rack and smiled because everywhere I look the items are women's , the coat I walk the dog in , the wellies I wear to garden . No where do you see anything male so anyone walking in naturally assumes a woman lives here .

The clothes help set my identity , I feel totally comfortable in them and they tell the RW what I am and how I choose to live my life .

I smiled at your list because so much is perfectly normal to me now , OK I don't use lower padding , whether I need it or not I'm not too concerned about because I try and keep things as natural as possible , most of my bust is me and I don't overdo jewellery . My hair and makeup are now an establised part of my identity .

[DianeT]

Angela and Teresa, you have a valid point. I said "transformation", but I should have added something like : "whether for having the look of a woman (my personal case) or because it expresses your inner feminine self (more what you describe)". But thinking of it, in the latter case there isn't really a transformation, it's more an expression, possibly a statement. I realize that I overlooked the fact that a majority of CDers seem to have a feminine persona. I don't, which explains why I laid the argument that way.

[Joanne108]

For me yes it is just clothes and whatever else it takes! I love the fact that when I am done dressing I see myself as the image of a woman! That is why I do this so I can look like a woman. I don’t want to be one, but I love looking like a woman. It makes sense to me, and from where I sit that’s all I need to know.

[GretchenM]

Very astute observation, Diane. You are quite right. And Angela, it is largely internal. That much we are sure of.

Dressing or transforming or whatever you want to call it is fulfilling a need generated in the brain as a result of some kind of detection of a mismatch between the person's concept of self and the signals being received through the senses from the outside world. So, which has gone wrong? Neither.

The concept of self originates from a blending of experiences, emotional limits in the brain, and the brain's configuration at the time. That configuration can change over time, but at the moment there is a disconnect between expectation and observation of the outside world. So, that person does what they can do to get things better aligned by altering their personal expression. That kind of puts a filter over the input from the outside world and helps to make things more consistent.

But the brain can also change some of its structures rather quickly from that which is commonly seen in one sex to what is seen in the opposite sex's brain structures. This occurs because of brain plasticity which allows the brain to adapt to new circumstances. Stress is a major factor in these wholesale shifts in brain structure. And detecting a mismatch between self and environment creates stress called dysphoria. So as the brain reacts to the mismatch and we alter our appearance to what ever level produces comfort; this reconfiguration of the brain structures and operation occurs to rid us of the dysphoria.

Unfortunately, unless we can stabilize the matching of the internal and external perception and we need to change back to a more "standard" expression because of environmental demands, the dysphoria will eventually return. Back and forth we go.

The solution for some is transition, for others it is something much less, and for others the brain learns to accept the mismatch as some kind of normality. Problem is, the dysphoria keeps popping back up at times and that starts the cycle all over again. Some can stay in that acceptance state; but for most it is temporary even if it lasts months or years. Eventually, the basic configuration of the brain shifts to some degree of dysphoria generation again. Each person is unique in how they are configured and none of that is driven by your sex. It is all about gender - your behavior patterns within a complex environment that demands adaptation. Your gender is a very dynamic part of you and it forms the connection between your sense of self and the totality of the environment you live in. That sense of self has some fundamental limitations established by your genes and expressed in your development, but it is highly flexible so you can adapt to new circumstances.

Well, at least that is a major theory. But the plain truth is nobody really knows for sure how all of the happens. But the evidence seems to support something like this happening.

[Paulie Birmingham]

It's an internal thing. Clothes don't make me want to be a woman or make me think I am a woman. Just a little fun thing I do.

[NancySue]

Great thread. I never thought about it. I am fortunate to have a supportive wife, who viewed my dressing as ?they?re just clothes? until I wore a bra with forms. She didn?t object, but I could tell something was on her mind. So, I asked her if there were any problems. She said ?no?, but she was surprised with my wearing a bra, both with and without forms. We talked and part of her feelings stemmed from her dislike of bras, especially underwires. I told her I couldn?t explain it, but how nice it felt. She just smiled and shrugged her shoulders. Nothing more has ever been said. She dislikes hose and heels (two of my favorites) and occasionally teases me with...how I can?t wait to put on...what she can?t wait to take off. I have no interest in transforming...just dressing.

[KymG]

There is no way I could do just the clothes.
I like, and or need, to see myself as a woman.
Wig, make up, heels, boobs, the lot.
I don't know why this is, I don't think too much about it these days.
Its relaxing, energising, comforting, sometimes erotic , and feels fantastic.
Sure beats drugs!

[JuliaGirl]

As Kym said, it's definitely not just "the clothes" for me.

The clothes (and wig, makeup to the best of my ability, breastforms or chest plate, jewellery, nails) are merely a physical manifestation of what I feel on the inside sometimes. When Julia has to be allowed her time to be free. I stopped trying to figure it out 15 or 20 years ago now and accept that all of it .. feelings and outward appearance ... at time are needed for a bunch of reasons. To feel a mix of calm, relaxed, less angry, comfortable, sensual, erotic, and amazing as me. I feel good dressed because it makes me feel complete at the times when I need to.

I'd honestly have no desire to wear women's clothing if it wasn't for something much more internal and deeper in me.

[Stephanie47]

IMHO it is more than just the clothes. At least for me. I am able to separate my male side from my female side, although I do not know if female side is the proper term. Male pattern baldness has set in which has lead to donning a wig. Rarely have I seen a bald woman, and, that includes sitting in various waiting area or next to my wife when she was undergoing chemotherapy infusions. My wife expressed a lot of her self identity is her hair. During chemotherapy she feared her hair would not grow back curly. She has pride in her curls. She also has pride in her greying locks. No dye jobs for her. I've read numerous articles and listened to many many stories about women and identity with hair, especially in the African-American community. It seems natural for a MtF crossdresser to want to have a womanly hair style. Of course, there are women who do have very short hair styles bordering on the masculine.

Now, getting to the boobs. Obviously there are many women who are not very well endowed. There are some in my family. Nothing unfeminine about them at all. Femininity is more than outward appearances. Me, my inner self feels more comfortable having boobs. Sometimes I thought it may be part of deluding myself. I have never considered butt pads or hip pads. My wife has said for many decades that I have a nice ass. And great legs. No need to stroke my ego anymore than it is.

I only wear dresses because that is how I feel. I have absolutely zero desire to wear any garments that seem to be co-opted from the men's side of the store. I see nothing at all worthy of jeans, although I see some very nice figures in jeans. However, usually what I see in jeans is not so appealing. It just like someone wearing jeans..sort of unisex for most. I've mentioned several times on this subject of seeing a dynamite young woman with long blond hair driving and operating a cement truck. She was adorned in steel toed boots, jeans, flannel shirt, safety vest, and hard hat....and gloves. Terrific smile. No mistaking her femininity which just rolled off her and flooded the street.

For me, it is all the way with the clothes, one way or the other. No mixing of fashions. I'm all in whether it is from the female or male side of the closet. I do not bother with makeup other than some light lip color, although when I was younger I did mess around with full makeup, false eyelashes and nail polish. I can to realize I did not need all those adds on to feel comfortable in my skin.

I personally think any male who says he just likes to wear women's clothing for its style and colors is deluding himself and refusing to accept he is more than a man in a dress.

[Michelle1955]

I’m working on be 65 years old this year, been in my head since around 5 years old. It is the head, not a puberty thing that popped up. It started with a neighbor girl I played with we switched underwear/panties at 5 years old to see the difference between the two types. I do not remember the particulars we got spoked when her called our names and nearly got caught in her room.

With that said to keep the gremlins from playing with my brain I got to be 24/7 panties. Some days got to have the boobs/bra on to settle the gemlins running around up stairs in my head.

Sure I wear clothes,etc but that not a must have to satisfy the need. Do have the urge to go town at times, but working around in the yard / garden / barn / feedings the animals underdressed and my leggings, work pants, etc takes of 90% of my needs. I’m not a MIAD I am me, mostly female. Non-binary.

[Mark B]

,

I personally think any male who says he just likes to wear women's clothing for its style and colors is deluding himself and refusing to accept he is more than a man in a dress.

Stephanie, I disagree that every man is deluding himself.

To me it is just the clothes. I present myself as a man, but wear skirts and high heels. I don't act feminine when wearing my skirts, just a man wearing something a bit different from most. I wear skirts and heels everyday to work. I don't wear dresses as they do not hang right as most have room for breasts. I do have one Bodycon dress that I have worn several times that fits snugly in the chest. I wear skirts and heels because I enjoy doing it. It gives me the freedom to be different.

My wife is the one who encourages me to once in a while to go out dressed with wig and forms. She calls it "girls night out time!" But she also understands I only do it to make her happy as I feel very uncomfortable when dressed as a female. At this point it is not just clothes.

[Tiff]

There is no way I could do just the clothes.
I like, and or need, to see myself as a woman.
Wig, make up, heels, boobs, the lot.
I don't know why this is, I don't think too much about it these days.
Its relaxing, energising, comforting, sometimes erotic , and feels fantastic.
Sure beats drugs!

Agreed with all that.

[Alyssa Lane]

Well I want to believe myself that it is just clothes, but for some reason I think it is more when it’s just physically impossible to have everything the SO has reproductively.
Do I want it all, probably yes. Can I have it all, harsh reality is no.

[Krisi]

I wear panties unless I'm going to the doctor. I wear women's jeans as a male. I don't think of this as "crossdressing". When I add the bra, boobs, hip and butt padding, wig and jewelry, I consider that "crossdressing". I know I'm not a woman and will never be a woman but I play the part of a woman the best I can.

There are lot of members here, with a lot of different thoughts on this.

[Natalie5004]

There is no way I could do just the clothes.
I like, and or need, to see myself as a woman.
Wig, make up, heels, boobs, the lot.
I don't know why this is, I don't think too much about it these days.
Its relaxing, energising, comforting, sometimes erotic , and feels fantastic.
Sure beats drugs!

I feel the same way. It just relaxes me. Kind of soothing for a while.

[Jean 103]

No, they are not just clothes. If this statement was correct than this site would not be here.

So why no they try and make this argument? It has to do with their world they live in. The fear that it could come crashing down, and they maybe right.

Their biggest fear is that they will be compared to Teresa or someone like me. As the person will not take the time to see that everyone here is different. Even Teresa and me are very different, something that you may not be able to tell from these pages.

I'm sure you will hear from them as in the end you ask the question what can they get away with?

As for me I can pretty much get away with anything to a point. I live in the real world, if I get to outrageous my friends will let me know. It doesn't happen anymore as I know where the boundaries are.

[Rhonda Jean]

It's never just the clothes. You just veered into another heated topic. It's a lie. It's a weak and weightless excuse and an attempt to brush away something that is deeper than we want to get into for whatever reason.

[Cheryl T]

This is such an individual thing that I don't even think we can clarify it.
I've been dressing for over 60 years (yes, I am that old) and in that time I have known other ladies for whom it was just clothes.
Some have only worn stockings or pantyhose and for some it was many pairs at a time. Others only wore slips and panties. For some it was hosiery and shoes.
Then there are others like myself.
It began with panties, progressed to bra and panties, then slips, then with hose and heels and eventually to the lady you have seen in my pictures. Yes, it's more than clothes for me. It's tactile as I love the feel of the clothing, it's emotional as it satisfies some deep seeded need that nothing else has ever satisfied. It's physical as it somehow instantly changes how I walk, talk, and move. It's part of me and I am part of it. For me it's more than "just the clothes".
But it may not be that way for everyone.

[April Rose]

Definitely not just clothes for me. It is inconvenient for me to expand too much on that right at this moment, but I think my signature line covers at least some of it.

[kimdl93]

I wonder if it can ever just be about the clothes, in particular women's clothes. Something inside is pulling an individual to wear the garment. The pull may begin as a sexual act, whether its the excitement of the forbidden or a proxy for being with a woman. For some the attraction may remain entirely sexual. For some, maybe its fun to stray outside the boundaries a bit.

For others, including myself, the motivation seems to be buried deep in early life, as consciousness and gender identity become known to us. There is endless speculation about how early that occurs, anywhere from genetic determination, exo-genetic expression and early childhood experience. No matter how incongruous with one's physical development, someone like me can feel drawn towards the clothing and our own internal constructs of what feels like femininity.

I suppose the lucky among us experience no conflict between between the motivation and social expectations. I'm not on of those lucky people.

[Maid_Marion]

I diet and exercise to have a weight at the 3 to 5 percentile for American women. And I have an hourglass figure! The waist is nine inches less than my hips. I've paid close attention to eating healthy since I was ten.

Marion