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Thread: So, it's just clothes, right?

  1. #1
    Member DianeT's Avatar
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    So, it's just clothes, right?

    While browsing the forums I frequently stumble on the argument "it's just clothes", generally coming from CDers making a point that CDing is a very normal thing to do, occasionally from GGs as well when they describe the activity of their CD significant other.
    So, just clothes, right?
    Let's say, panties, bra. Just clothes.
    A pair of tights, a dress, shoes. Just clothes.
    Rings, bracelets, necklace, earrings, a watch. Just clothes. Okay.
    Done?
    Well, for many crossdressers, the list extends a bit more.
    Boobs. Just clothes?
    Hip and buttocks forms, a garter. Just clothes?
    Makeup, painted nails, wig. Just clothes?

    It seems to me that when the list reached boobs, we slipped from dressing to transformation. Of course everyone may draw that fine line at a different level. In my personal case, as soon as I wear a pair of tights, or for that purpose any piece of female attire, it's not just clothes anymore, I'm starting an emotional journey that extends much beyond "just clothes".
    Like a GG once said in a post: "Putting on women's clothing does not a girl make". Granted, however putting on boobs (or showing off your natural ones for the same illusion) seems a step farther than just a man wearing feminine apparel to his taste, and although it may not necessarily question your gender identity, it hints that your interest as a CDer goes slightly beyond the fabrics 🤔.
    The argument "it's just clothes" for CDers going the full nine yards with forms, wig and makeup reminds me of its "it's for the comfort" sibling related to wearing panties rather male briefs, as it is a scientific fact that us males have such tender and delicate skin that cotton is poison ivy to us 😊.

    Where do you draw the line yourself? When are clothes not just clothes anymore?

  2. #2
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    Once you get to adding boobs, its gone beyond clothes.

  3. #3
    Aspiring Member Angela1954's Avatar
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    I believe it is internal. The clothes don't effect the transformation. Once you accept your feminine self you move on to the presentation; which clearly identifies you as a woman. From my personal perspective it was the realization that my my female persona was a much larger part of me then I was previously wiling to admit.

  4. #4
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Diane,
    It's a very debateable point , " It's not about the clothes !" is often a comment made here .

    To a point I agree but then I consider them a window to the World of how we feel inside . I had this conversation with a couple in my painting group , the guy is gay with a husband and the GG in her mid thirties . I pointed out to the guy that being gay wasn't usually a visual thing whereas being TG is . My clothes make a statement about me as most people's clothes do but mine say I'm female to the RW .

    It's funny but only this morning I was getting my breakfast before taking my dog for a walk , I glanced at the coat rack and smiled because everywhere I look the items are women's , the coat I walk the dog in , the wellies I wear to garden . No where do you see anything male so anyone walking in naturally assumes a woman lives here .

    The clothes help set my identity , I feel totally comfortable in them and they tell the RW what I am and how I choose to live my life .

    I smiled at your list because so much is perfectly normal to me now , OK I don't use lower padding , whether I need it or not I'm not too concerned about because I try and keep things as natural as possible , most of my bust is me and I don't overdo jewellery . My hair and makeup are now an establised part of my identity .
    Last edited by Teresa; 03-24-2020 at 08:19 AM.
    The real me ,no going back.

  5. #5
    Member DianeT's Avatar
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    Angela and Teresa, you have a valid point. I said "transformation", but I should have added something like : "whether for having the look of a woman (my personal case) or because it expresses your inner feminine self (more what you describe)". But thinking of it, in the latter case there isn't really a transformation, it's more an expression, possibly a statement. I realize that I overlooked the fact that a majority of CDers seem to have a feminine persona. I don't, which explains why I laid the argument that way.
    Last edited by DianeT; 03-24-2020 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Typo

  6. #6
    Member Joanne108's Avatar
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    For me yes it is just clothes and whatever else it takes! I love the fact that when I am done dressing I see myself as the image of a woman! That is why I do this so I can look like a woman. I don’t want to be one, but I love looking like a woman. It makes sense to me, and from where I sit that’s all I need to know.

  7. #7
    Aspiring Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    Very astute observation, Diane. You are quite right. And Angela, it is largely internal. That much we are sure of.

    Dressing or transforming or whatever you want to call it is fulfilling a need generated in the brain as a result of some kind of detection of a mismatch between the person's concept of self and the signals being received through the senses from the outside world. So, which has gone wrong? Neither.

    The concept of self originates from a blending of experiences, emotional limits in the brain, and the brain's configuration at the time. That configuration can change over time, but at the moment there is a disconnect between expectation and observation of the outside world. So, that person does what they can do to get things better aligned by altering their personal expression. That kind of puts a filter over the input from the outside world and helps to make things more consistent.

    But the brain can also change some of its structures rather quickly from that which is commonly seen in one sex to what is seen in the opposite sex's brain structures. This occurs because of brain plasticity which allows the brain to adapt to new circumstances. Stress is a major factor in these wholesale shifts in brain structure. And detecting a mismatch between self and environment creates stress called dysphoria. So as the brain reacts to the mismatch and we alter our appearance to what ever level produces comfort; this reconfiguration of the brain structures and operation occurs to rid us of the dysphoria.

    Unfortunately, unless we can stabilize the matching of the internal and external perception and we need to change back to a more "standard" expression because of environmental demands, the dysphoria will eventually return. Back and forth we go.

    The solution for some is transition, for others it is something much less, and for others the brain learns to accept the mismatch as some kind of normality. Problem is, the dysphoria keeps popping back up at times and that starts the cycle all over again. Some can stay in that acceptance state; but for most it is temporary even if it lasts months or years. Eventually, the basic configuration of the brain shifts to some degree of dysphoria generation again. Each person is unique in how they are configured and none of that is driven by your sex. It is all about gender - your behavior patterns within a complex environment that demands adaptation. Your gender is a very dynamic part of you and it forms the connection between your sense of self and the totality of the environment you live in. That sense of self has some fundamental limitations established by your genes and expressed in your development, but it is highly flexible so you can adapt to new circumstances.

    Well, at least that is a major theory. But the plain truth is nobody really knows for sure how all of the happens. But the evidence seems to support something like this happening.

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    It's an internal thing. Clothes don't make me want to be a woman or make me think I am a woman. Just a little fun thing I do.

  9. #9
    Senior Member NancySue's Avatar
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    Great thread. I never thought about it. I am fortunate to have a supportive wife, who viewed my dressing as ?they?re just clothes? until I wore a bra with forms. She didn?t object, but I could tell something was on her mind. So, I asked her if there were any problems. She said ?no?, but she was surprised with my wearing a bra, both with and without forms. We talked and part of her feelings stemmed from her dislike of bras, especially underwires. I told her I couldn?t explain it, but how nice it felt. She just smiled and shrugged her shoulders. Nothing more has ever been said. She dislikes hose and heels (two of my favorites) and occasionally teases me with...how I can?t wait to put on...what she can?t wait to take off. I have no interest in transforming...just dressing.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jean 103's Avatar
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    No, they are not just clothes. If this statement was correct than this site would not be here.

    So why no they try and make this argument? It has to do with their world they live in. The fear that it could come crashing down, and they maybe right.

    Their biggest fear is that they will be compared to Teresa or someone like me. As the person will not take the time to see that everyone here is different. Even Teresa and me are very different, something that you may not be able to tell from these pages.

    I'm sure you will hear from them as in the end you ask the question what can they get away with?

    As for me I can pretty much get away with anything to a point. I live in the real world, if I get to outrageous my friends will let me know. It doesn't happen anymore as I know where the boundaries are.
    Last edited by Jean 103; 03-24-2020 at 09:19 AM.

  11. #11
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    It's never just the clothes. You just veered into another heated topic. It's a lie. It's a weak and weightless excuse and an attempt to brush away something that is deeper than we want to get into for whatever reason.

  12. #12
    Exploring NEPA now Cheryl T's Avatar
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    This is such an individual thing that I don't even think we can clarify it.
    I've been dressing for over 60 years (yes, I am that old) and in that time I have known other ladies for whom it was just clothes.
    Some have only worn stockings or pantyhose and for some it was many pairs at a time. Others only wore slips and panties. For some it was hosiery and shoes.
    Then there are others like myself.
    It began with panties, progressed to bra and panties, then slips, then with hose and heels and eventually to the lady you have seen in my pictures. Yes, it's more than clothes for me. It's tactile as I love the feel of the clothing, it's emotional as it satisfies some deep seeded need that nothing else has ever satisfied. It's physical as it somehow instantly changes how I walk, talk, and move. It's part of me and I am part of it. For me it's more than "just the clothes".
    But it may not be that way for everyone.

  13. #13
    Member April Rose's Avatar
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    Definitely not just clothes for me. It is inconvenient for me to expand too much on that right at this moment, but I think my signature line covers at least some of it.
    I am a vessel of the goddess. Let me express my calling to a feminine life through nurturing love and relatedness.

  14. #14
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    I wonder if it can ever just be about the clothes, in particular women's clothes. Something inside is pulling an individual to wear the garment. The pull may begin as a sexual act, whether its the excitement of the forbidden or a proxy for being with a woman. For some the attraction may remain entirely sexual. For some, maybe its fun to stray outside the boundaries a bit.

    For others, including myself, the motivation seems to be buried deep in early life, as consciousness and gender identity become known to us. There is endless speculation about how early that occurs, anywhere from genetic determination, exo-genetic expression and early childhood experience. No matter how incongruous with one's physical development, someone like me can feel drawn towards the clothing and our own internal constructs of what feels like femininity.

    I suppose the lucky among us experience no conflict between between the motivation and social expectations. I'm not on of those lucky people.

    Easy come, easy go;
    Easy left me long ago...

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    The "It's just clothes" thing shot from a different angle. One example of about a million, but if this social distancing thing doesn't end pretty soon I'll only have half a million left!

    Shopping was my mother's hobby, so she'd very often buy a bunch of clothes for me to try on and take back what didn't work. The summer after 8th or 9th grade she had a garage sale and sold my clothes from the previous year. I saw a woman carrying an armload of my clothes in the house to try on. When I said something like "She's trying on MY clothes??", our neighbor said, "Well, they're girl's clothes. I don't know why not!".

    Fact was, I was a little skinny kid. My mother thought girl's jeans, pants, shirts just fit me better. To her they were just clothes (That's probably debatable, but not the point). I had worn them for the whole school year and they had been just clothes all that time. Had I known they were girl's clothes I'm not sure I would have worn them to school (even though I would have wanted to). Since I didn't know, I never gave it a second thought. From then on I had the perfect situation. My mother had already established they were just clothes, so I didn't even have to make the argument. I also had a year of wearing them behind me without incident, which really strengthened my mother's position. Apparently they were just clothes to everybody else, too. Keep in mind this was the '70's, so there was a lot of crossover anyway. We kept buying my school clothes from the girl's department. The same kind of things I wore without even knowing it before. From then on I damn sure knew they weren't just clothes to me, when mostly the real difference was that they were sized differently. If you look at pictures of the rock bands from back then, most of them were either wearing girl's clothes or there really was no difference other than sizing.

  16. #16
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    As someone who has repeatedly insisted I am not transgender I have never ever said "It is just clothes". The question about boobs and a bra is valid and one I have asked myself often. I like the feeling and I like how I look in the clothes - they just look better with boobs. My boobs are 38B - they are just big enough to set the clothes off nicely and suit my frame. I do not crave bigger ones. It is not just about how the clothes feel though I like that - it is also how they look. Unless I am going out I do not wear a wig or make up. I like ACTING as a woman but "It is just acting" - I always identify as male. I am not pretending that they are "just clothes" just that nothing about this changes my internal gender feelings about myself. The clothes are fun and I enjoy wearing them much much more than I enjoy wearing male clothes. Most mornings I get up and put on everything a well-dressed woman would apart from make up and perfume and in that sense they ARE just clothes. I have to wear something and I prefer to wear all the things you listed like tights and slips. It has long gone from compulsion to routine. I have given up trying to figure it out and if I enjoy it and don't hurt anyone I don't see that my internal reasons are accountable to anyone but me. That does not stop people asking questions like this - it is a good question. Just do not tell me my answer is wrong. It is how I feel.
    Last edited by susan54; 03-24-2020 at 02:08 PM.

  17. #17
    Platinum Member Shelly Preston's Avatar
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    This is such an individual thing.

    I would say its more about the motivation behind of why you want to wear women's clothes.

    (some will say there not women's clothes there mine).

    There can never be an absolute answer which fits everyone.

    Just be as happy as you can whatever the reason.
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  18. #18
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    I haven’t read the responses, so sorry if this has been covered already, but I think you’re reading “just clothes” too literally. I think “just the clothes” is a shorthand way of saying that they’re into the aesthetics and presenting as a woman, but that they don’t experience gender dysphoria or trans tendencies.

  19. #19
    I accept myself as is Gillian Gigs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly Preston View Post

    I would say its more about the motivation behind of why you want to wear women's clothes.
    We all have different ways of asking ourselves this kind of question. I will admit that I have said on this site many times, "after all it's just clothing". Well, if we examine what our motives are, and not delude ourselves we could probably come up with the real answer. As individuals, we will each have our own answers which will fill the full spectrum that we see within the people who frequent this site.

    It is now and probably will continue to be an integral part of who I am. This is why we all need to come to the point of self acceptance, it's one of those things that just doesn't seem to go away. Fortunately I have an accepting wife. Through the evolution to where we are today, I have had the opportunity to see this whole thing from another point of view. Clothing usually makes a statement of who we are as individuals, and wearing women's clothes has got to be saying something. With that being said I have over the years been like a pendulum at times swinging from one extreme to the other. The goal has and will always be to get to a happy equilibrium, not only for me, but my wife also.

    Different articles of clothing has had its stumbling block moments with the wife. One primary one being bras, then forms. She just couldn't see why something that is uncomfortable for her to wear, would be something that I would want considering I had no physical reason for wearing one. Another thing for her was that she doesn't like having to wear dresses, and to make it worse for her would be to wear pantyhose with the dress. Hence, she thinks that I am crazy for loving to wear pantyhose with skirts. All of this is a non issue today.

    Through the evolution of her acceptance I also had to learn where not to tread. She wants her man to look a certain way, hence I accommodate her as much as I can. Compromise is a key part of any marriage, finding the middle ground takes work, a lot of work.

    Some days it feels like they are just clothes, and others days they are very sensual. There seems to be this thing that many call, "the pink fog", and for different reasons it comes upon us. That is something that can knock me off my equilibrium. In my case it has strong sexual overtones, so I have learned to be aware of how it can come upon me and how it can affect me.

    The important thing is to be honest with ourselves, and realize that we can have different reasons for doing the same thing. one day dressing it can be sexual, another sensual, and another day it is just to feel comfortable. I can't see any consensus within a group, when I get get a consensus within myself.
    I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!

  20. #20
    Member Brenda Freeman's Avatar
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    They really do just look like clothes in my closet. But as I sort thru deciding what to wear when time allows, it brings back the joy of wearing them the process of dressing and the finished product, usually includes forms, lingerie, make up and all gives me a joy that my male clothes just do not provide. So they are not just clothes to me.

  21. #21
    MtF Transgender JeanTG's Avatar
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    I tried to fool myself (and my wife) that it was "just clothes" for many years.

    Now I'm on HRT... I guess it was more than "just clothes" for me!

  22. #22
    Senior Member Asew's Avatar
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    Well maybe for some of the MIAD folks they might be just clothes. But for most here it extends past clothes (fake boobs, makeup, jewelry, long hair or wigs, padding, mannerisms, voice changes, using a different name, etc). The clothes may be the most important part for some, but most do things beyond just clothes. Really the just clothes is trying to minimize it and well we should embrace who we are, no matter how little or how much we transform.

  23. #23
    Member DianeT's Avatar
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    Thanks to all for taking the time to answer. I take great interest in this seemingly innocent topic for two reasons:
    - It helps me better understand my own experience
    - My wife draws a clear discomfort line at boobs, hip forms, wig, makeup. She considers at this point that it's not just clothes anymore (I tell her that for me it never was anyway).
    She has an interesting point about it but this will be for another thread.

  24. #24
    Gold Member Lana Mae's Avatar
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    For me, it is not just clothes! It is who I am! Lana Mae! Period! LOL Elbow Bump Lana Mae
    Life is worth living!
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  25. #25
    Weirdest woman ever! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Wink It's all about the clothes. But, never JUST all about the clothes!

    Average men don't care about women's clothes. Except, that when they r attracted to a woman they think about getting her OUT of them ASAP!

    I know. I was an "average man" for 50 years. I had countless opportunities to try on girlfriends and my wife's clothes over the years. Why didn't I?

    Because the thot never occurred to me!
    Just as it doesn't to most men!

    My hormones, or something, changed when I got older. And, once I tried on that 1st pair of tite women's jeans I was hooked!

    So, it's ALL about the clothes. But, never JUST all about the clothes!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

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