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Thread: I'm a trans female athlete suing the state of Idaho for its anti-trans law ?s welcome

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    Post I'm a trans female athlete suing the state of Idaho for its anti-trans law ?s welcome

    I'm a trans woman cross country runner at my college in Idaho, where a discriminatory law called HB 500 was recently passed, and now that the case has been officially filed, I wanted to come to a safe place to talk about it. I am really overwhelmed by the amount of attention that is now on me, and I feel like my every move has a lens on it, especially online. It's not that I don't feel safe, but I am publicly out as a trans woman, attached to a major news story, and I'm in a conservative state, so I do feel like I have to be wary of my actions a lot more than before. Questions regarding my lawsuit or just my life and transtion are welcome - I want as much support from my fellow trans people as I can get... this is new and scary to me but at the same time so empowering and exciting because not many people get to fight for a right of their group/population like I'm doing.

    https://www.aclu.org/cases/hecox-v-little

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    Hi Lindsay,

    Thank you for putting yourself out there on this issue. I saw it from the ACLU earlier today. Yes you may get a lot of scrutiny, and likely to be a difficult and emotional path your on now. It is a hard issue and the folks that think they know best in idaho stirred a lot of anger towards trans people to pass it, along with the birth certificate bill. Be careful. I have little experience being a trans woman in idaho and it is not the friendliest of places. And it is worse now in much of the state. It broke my heart when they passed the bills.

    One thing just my thoughts on this, you might want to be really thoughtful about what you post here considering the circumstances and in relation to this. It is a public forum and is searchable. It is not so hard to learn more about a person from what they say on the internet. I don't know how active the safe haven section on this site is anymore but it is a lot more private.

    Theresa

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    Member Dorit's Avatar
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    Hi Lindsay! I am so with you in your struggle for acceptance. You are very brave, come to think of it, we all are. The move of history is on our side, even though it is sometimes two steps forward and one step backward. I would just add that you do need to protect yourself emotionally and know when it is time to pull back from the public eye. Sadly, there are haters out there.

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    Aspiring Member mbmeen12's Avatar
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    Well Miss Lindsay you're welcome here and I support you....Good luck and post away xo
    HRT 13th week....

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    I support you. It's bad enough that trans people have a very hard time getting careers while they are especially young.

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    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Lindsay,

    While you may not be competing at Olympic level ( yet ) the Oylmpic committee have been working hard on the TG situation with participants , the state of Idaho could be breaking international aggreements on TG competitors . Obviously the biggest problem is everyone competing on a level playing field but obviously that depends on the activity but they are trying to find ways for everyone to compete in their assumed gender . I'm not sure if they can give you any help in this situation .
    Last edited by Jeri Ann; 04-16-2020 at 01:48 PM. Reason: Stating differences in national policies has nothing to do with this post.
    The real me ,no going back.

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    Best of luck, Lindsay! I admire your courage in facing down the bigotry of the state of Idaho!

    Easy come, easy go;
    Easy left me long ago...

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    Call me Pam pamela7's Avatar
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    tell us a lot more of your story so we can understand enough to make valid input, please.

    and ... welcome!

    xxx
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJFyz73MRcg
    I used to believe this, now I'm in the company of many tiggers. A tigger does not wonder why she is a tigger, she just is a tigger.

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    I have been following this and other bill that was passed banning sex change on the birth certificate.
    Last edited by Nigella; 04-18-2020 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Moderation is not a topic for the boards

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    Silver Member Devi SM's Avatar
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    Lindsay, I really feel sad for what you're living. I compare with the times of slavery and when women didn't have any rights.
    I'd been saying that may be around 20 or 30 more years, to talk about LGBTQ will be so useless like today talk about those topics, slavery, it will be history but that will happen just thanks to people like you. The more exposed more support we will find. The world is full of good people...
    Thanks for sharing....
    Keep us posted please...
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    What event?

    When competing against males, where did you rank ?

    When competing against gg, where do you rank?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie Birmingham View Post
    What event?

    When competing against males, where did you rank ?

    When competing against gg, where do you rank?
    I was a cross country 3-miler, and a 800/1600/3200 m runner in track season. I was good enough to be on varsity for one race before an injury Junior year, and varsity for the whole season until the last race of the regular season, where another injury (stress fracture in metatarsal bone) stopped my Senior season. I have not yet competed against cisgender girls, I know at the beginning of my HRT treatment I was still a good deal faster than a girl who was in the same running club as me, but I also knew she was not a varsity runner in high school. Over the last half year, my workouts by myself are at a noticeably slower pace. By one year, in Sept, I will maybe finally see how I compare to elite female athletes, and I expect I will be right around where I was in high school: 5 or 6 out of 7. I don't know how many girls in total will be on this team, but I can say for certain I won't be the fastest, or the slowest.

    [SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

    @Devi, thanks so much for the message! I will keep you posted. This is a long and totally unpredictable journey I have set upon, and I will likely be in a lot more worry and fear since I'm publicly out as trans, and doing something that's frowned upon by a lot of the Idaho population

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    I am not a professional runner but run 3 times a week and occasionally compete in half marathon races, 10k, 5k. My pace took 10% cut almost within few weeks after starting hormones and no way I can compete against male. Interestingly, many female runners are much faster than I am, and I think they had to train better than what I did. I have been training very had the past 5 months to get to where some decent female athletes are. So all this laws don't make sense anyways.

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    Junior Member Shannon michelle's Avatar
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    Lindsay,
    Thank you for putting yourself out there and fighting this injustice.

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    Aspiring Member MarieTS's Avatar
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    Lindsay, I am proud of your struggle and courage. I know. I've been there. It is tremendous that you still desire to compete. All that being said, after I began my hormonal protocol I experienced a tremendous drop off in my running performances, even still, I was way ahead of nearly all the gg's, to the point where I felt uncomfortable.

    After SRS and the very lengthy recovery, my performances dropped still greater. I was no longer close to being the fastest girl on the block but I was still faster than many. But it did feel a little more fair. The point I want to make to you is one of objectivity. The reason sexes compete separately is because maleness confers a distinct advantage. When we transition some of that advantage noticeably dissipates. However, much of it is indelible and permanently remains. Like it or not it creates an inequity for gg women that is unfair to them. I wouldn't trade my full transitioning for anything, even an Olympic medal.

    However, I also recognize that although I lost physical strength and endurance I will always have more than most gg's. I think you just have to be willing to view this as an objective woman. I believe the long term solution for this is to allow running in one's transitioned sex at the local 10K, etc. However at the national and international level of competition, transitioned women will have distinct advantage so much so that society is going to have to determine if an indivdual's feelings and desires are more important than the appearance of fairness for the entire class of female athletes.

    Always willing to chat with you. Stay strong and brave.
    Last edited by MarieTS; 04-20-2020 at 03:44 AM.
    Marie

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    Little Mrs. Snarky! Nadine Spirit's Avatar
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    Lindsay - Good for you girl! I'm impressed. You are taking on one of the hottest issues for transgender humans right now. That must be tough. I wish for you strength and determination.

    MarieTS - You have stated nothing but your own experience and your own opinion on the situation. Please don't play it off as though what you are saying is factual. It is solely your own thoughts. as in "Like it or not it creates an inequity for gg women that is unfair to them." Please support that statement with facts and evidence, because what you gave so far is not that.

    How about some facts? Trans athletes have been able to compete in the Olympics since 2004. There were 3 requirements at that point, however in 2015 they decreased those requirements due to national inequity issues with transgender humans. Those requirements were in effect for 2016's Rio games. And during that time how many transgender female athletes got a medal? Not a single one.

    If that is the case, haven't those policies already determined that transgender athletes are not a threat to the sanctity of female sports?


    Okay..... a bit of my own opinion on this topic. I trained as an elite athlete, I was a swimmer. From age 8 to 16, I swam year-round, pretty much 7 days a week. I was never that good, my sister was. She missed the Olympic trials by 0.03 of a second in the 800 free. So I know a little bit about elite athletics.

    Many people within today's elite athletics community are putting up the idea that in order to keep women's athletics "pure" and "fair," trans athletes need to be kept out. If our society does not, then it will completely destroy women's athletics. This sounds great and has gotten many humans fired up to help protect women's sport. The thing is, I think Caster Semenya would have an interesting opinion on this. She is a cis-gender woman who is not allowed to compete unless she changes the body she was born with. She has naturally elevated levels of testosterone. This has caused huge controversy within the elite running community. The courts ruled that if she wants to compete she must reduce her testosterone levels. The court said that they understand it is being discriminatory however it is necessary to ensure "fairness" within female athletics.

    My opinion is that female sports are not inherently "fair." Our society defines what it means to be female and then enforces that definition within sports to determine who is a "proper" female and who is not. At one point that involved actual physical examination of the female athletes. These days it involves looking at more, but it is the same thing. Female athletics is not fair by nature, it is fair by defining criteria. If you are within that, then you can compete, if not, too bad for you.

    Basically female elite athletics is not open to one and all, it is only open to those who qualify. It is not fair, it is discriminatory. Only those who fit someone else's definition of what it is to be a woman can compete. Fine. Just call it what it is. Don't stand up and say you are fighting for the little guy (girl.) Just ask Caster.

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    Perhaps laurel will be the first .


    From a few days ago

    Transgender weightlifter Laurel Hubbard has won two silver medals at the world championships.

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    Aspiring Member MarieTS's Avatar
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    Nadine, I enjoyed reading your diatribe on how I injected opinion and personal experience into a forum that was created just for that, and then you went did the same. LoL. But seriously I enjoyed your post and think it is a good addition to the topic to help Lindsey, because that is what I am interested in doing.

    I am also quite familiar with Caster's predicament. It is a real mess and I feel for her deeply. I attended a seminar on Ethics In Athletics that showcased the personal and physiological aspects of her dilemma and that of the athletic governing body.

    As I am sure you are aware, there are also several legal challenges by gg athletes at the elite high school level suing over this situation because they lost state championships to mtf tg's. This mess is not going to go away soon. Much of their case is based upon those indelible physical advantages -- despite lowered T-levels -- I made earlier reference to and has been borne out by physiologists. It is going to be an interesting battle and I would not be at all suprised to see it decided by SCOTUS.

    Meanwhile, I merely wish to support Lindsey and make her aware of the challenges ahead. As we all know transitioning is replete with challenge. It is one long race without a finish line.
    Last edited by MarieTS; 04-21-2020 at 03:32 AM.
    Marie

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    Lindsay, I support your efforts 100%. But... to make a level playing field for all, the requirement of a male being on female hormones for a year to suppress the male "T" seems to be a reasonable approach. Good luck!

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    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Nadine,
    Matina Navratilova made a documentary on this subject after she stated it was unfair competition , she was then removed as a reprsentative of the LGBTQ community over her comments so she went onto produce the program . It was a real eye opener for her , it basically came down to levels of testosterone , performance is closely linked to it . Obviously some sports can be competed in on equal terms . The IOC are working hard to level the playing field , personally I felt after watching it a handicap system could be used based on T levels , a runner for example could be handicapped in time depending on their level , it would be interesting to see the outcome of trials in mixed events .

    The spinoff could be earnings for female competitors could be brought into line with male competitors .

    Her interviews with a trans golfer and racing driver were interesting , the golfer only needed to tee off on male tees to be able to compete on the female circuit if the rules could be officially changed and the racing driver was about to take part in the Le Mans 24 hr race , she claimed she was a better driver, her times were just as good but more consistent with lower T levels .

    Martina made the comment about Dr. Richards when she did play her she struggled to beat her even on a good day and annoyingly with Dr. Richards not even bothering to practice .
    Last edited by Teresa; 04-30-2020 at 11:58 AM.
    The real me ,no going back.

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    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Cmon nadine where does that come from? what's wrong with personal experience..... you shared yours at length, and the facts you posted are actually examples of faulty inductive logic... ie. I didnt see and cows... therefore there are no cows.... no trans people won, therefore trans people dont win and therefore are not advantaged..
    some governing bodies have made the decision to enforce protections for us to compete.... and some haven't.. the exact same argument can be made from the other side...some haven't so the ones that did should change...precedent does matter it cuts both ways.

    Here is my factual experience and my opinion.

    Transitioned 11 years ago (OMG)...I started strength lifting at 55 yrs old as an anti aging practice... my dead lifts and squats blow away the other women in my gym and I never lifted weights in my life..
    Certainly lots of women may be stronger than me, but to argue Im not advantaged because of my genetics is silly. This weakness in our case leads to wasting our time arguing something that most people just know is true..

    It makes the argument be about whether we are advantaged and not about our human rights. I am not a lawyer but im not sure that advantage is even legally relevant. its only relevant in court of public opinion and the day to day animosity some of us face.

    the real argument is that regardless of this fact, we are women, and we have every right to be a woman. some laws are moving in the direction that we are protected in that right..
    in some areas thats not happening and we have to be able to make our case there.

    That's the same argument we have been forced to make since we became to known to society.

    Lindsey I hope you get everything you deserve in life.. I'll check out the link.
    I am real

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    The OP has not been back on the forum since posting this thread, I'm closing it for now and await her return when, if she requests it, it will be re-opened
    Listen carefully to what is said, quite often you can hear what is not being said

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