Where Have All the Civilians Gone?

[Stephanie47]

Today's article (4/21/2020) at femulate.org is entitled "Where Have All the Civilians Gone?" I thought that is an interesting term to differentiate between a member of the "femulating community" (cross dressing community) and the person who occasionally dresses up, as in a womanless beauty pageant, Halloween, womanless wedding, etc. The observation is made the person may look too well put together to be just a "civilian." Of course, this brought me back to a recent thread on womanless high school beauty pageants.

[kimdl93]

It occurred to me that maybe these days the concept of a woman less pageant is a little like going out in blackface. I know I have to participate in events that I felt were in some sense demeaning to transgender people. Maybe that?s a little too PC, but on the other hand, I would rather err on the side of consideration.

[MichaelM]

What I don't understand, and may be because I'm new round here, is the difference between femulating community and occasional dresser.

Does extent matter?

If I'm happy just in panties on a daily basis do I qualify?
Or do I have to go the whole hog and dress in heels, wig and makeup? What if that's once every 6 months?

That's the problem with labels. It may work for some but not everyone.

[kimdl93]

There really isn?t so much of a difference. More of a matter of degree rather than of kind.

[Teresa]

Stephanie,
I don't go along with her thinking at all , do we really need to have to worry about labels like that , to prove or disprove how good we are when we dress . I feel she's demeaning to the TSs who have gone through transition , would she still single them out and cast aspersions on how well they dressed as women ?

To ask from her perspective what looks good enough and for what ? I'd sooner live in the RW than hers , I'm a civilian as opposed to military and that's it .

[Tracii G]

Another term to add to the long list of nonsensical trans terms and acronyms.

[Patience]

When will they ever learn?

[Lana Mae]

Maybe never!

[Rhonda Jean]

Civilians sounds like a good shorthand term for us to use. Nobody else will know what we're talking about.

We had a womanless pageant where I went to high school. I was never invited to participate and probably wouldn't have had I been asked. Like Stana says, seems like there are always one or two that are just too good. I'll say this, the best one I ever saw was, as far as I know, a one-timer, although I don't know how I'd really know for sure. I carpooled with him (his mother took us) the day of the pageant and just sat there in stunned silence. I don't know how he could have not liked it, and I don't know how it couldn't have had some effect on him long term. If he wasn't one of us before, I don't know how he could have resisted at least repeating the experiment. His sister was a pageant girl, so he had access to the clothes and his mother's know how, and they took full advantage of it. There was one other boy in that same pageant who would fall into the "too good" category. He didn't dress before school like my friend did. I was in the classroom where the girls were doing his hair and makeup.

I personally think there are motivations in having as well as participating in and even attending these things that goes beyond raising money for some charity. I mean, really, isn't that kind of a weird way to raise money? The comedy aspect isn't really comedy. Clown makeup and basketballs for boobs... I don't get it. Does anybody really think that's funny? Is it funny when a boy walks out looking like he just stepped out of Cosmo? What I've always suspected is that the organizer (at least the original organizer, for those that have been going on for a while) did it because he or she wanted to see that one or two who totally pulled of the pageant girl look. The "funny" ones are just filler.

[Stephanie47]

It occurred to me that maybe these days the concept of a woman less pageant is a little like going out in blackface. I know I have to participate in events that I felt were in some sense demeaning to transgender people. Maybe that?s a little too PC, but on the other hand, I would rather err on the side of consideration.

What would you say in that context to those who dress up as woman, yet profess they have absolutely no kinship to women? It's just a hobby. Or, say they do it because they like the clothes when there is also fake boobs, butt and hip padding? Is that display the same as appearing in blackface? Not meaning to stir the pot, but, is the concept the same?

When I "need," and, I do stress "need" to emulate the appearance of a woman, it is not because I like the pretty clothes. It is because there is something within me that brings solace when I am under stress. My stated position has always been there is something within me that directs me towards this form of gender expression. That is a term which is also written into the Washington State statutes for protection of sexual minority groups. Although I like being a man, there are things I have done which are deemed "manly" that I really did not like doing. If I had been born a woman that would have been fine with me too, although I may have become disenchanted with the role of women in society back in the 1960's and 1970's.

Perhaps it is not just TS women who dislike plain vanilla cross dressers, but, also GG's who have negative feelings towards men who emulate women. It is difficult to judge how a woman feels towards the concept of a womanless beauty pageant or the guy dressing up on Halloween. I see those moms helping their sons create a tasteful illusion or a wife helping her husband do the same. But, throw a dress and heels on an otherwise hairy guy that almost mocks womanhood, that seems it would be viewed as unacceptable. It can be very confusing.

[Micki_Finn]

I think in context it just means “a person who is doing it this one time for this one occasion”. E.g. someone who gets dressed up for Halloween in a female costume for a lark, or frat boys who wear dresses for a talent show or whatever. I don’t think it’s meant to refer to varying levels of crossdressing, but rather non-crossdressers who happen to be in women’s clothes. I’d have to read the article to verify.

I personally use the term “muggle”

[Tracy Irving]

do I have to go the whole hog and dress in heels, wig and makeup?

This site is called crossdressers.com so you are doing just fine. If you want to add a wig and makeup then go for it! Crossdressing does not require you to pretend to be a woman with a wig and makeup but it doesn't stop you either. There are many days that my only female item is panties and I believe I am still crossdressing.

[Sallee]

Don't know what muggle means At least I didn't but I like the term

[AllieSF]

I have not read the article either, but I will comment on the concept of men and/or boys dressing up as women for special events, many of which are for raising funds for some cause. I saw a play several years ago based on real life events. The basis of the story was that way back when, not sure of the years but guessing before 1950, it was common in the USA Midwest and some southern areas for a traveling fundraiser would be the leader in organizing everything and usually tried to get some prominent town men to participate, like the mayor and major store owners to give more credibility to the whole event would go to small town, meet with the City Council and mayor and try to convince them to do a special event, a parade down main street, to raise funds for that small town for whatever special needs they had. The special and quite unique aspect to this was that men and boys from the city would dress up as women and walk in the parade, I assume with school bands and some floats, and be seen by the whole town drawing in people from outside the town to come to the town to watch the parade, spend some money and maybe donate some too. The fundraiser was then paid for his services.

The play I saw changed the process a bit and had prominent and known men from the town play roles in a play. That way the price paid for the tickets to see the play became the source of the funds raised by the city. The theme of the play about this unusual way a small town or city making money could make money was the effect it had on those men who dressed up as women. It was a very good, simple play that would be a definite must see for crossdressers looking for something related to what they, and I before I took too many steps and left the crossdressing world for the TS one, do for enjoyment and to calm us down or for whatever reason there is to crossdress.

All that being said, the principal point that I am trying to make here, is that males dressing up as females for these special events has deep roots, many times associated with raising funds for a cause, and had nothing to do with long term crossdressing. Though there may have been some crossdressers that jumped at the opportunity to participate in it all.

PS: I do not see any relationship to the strong meanings and effects of black facing. It was, and still is, a fun time to be had by all that participate making fun of how men and boys look when they dress up as girls or women. They usually do look a little like clowns. I have never heard a big uprising by woman that it is mocking them and their gender.

[Taylor186]

. . .There are many days that my only female item is panties and I believe I am still crossdressing.

Me too, and I agree. It's crossdressing if you are a CD and it's crossdressing if you are a civilian/muggle. The way I see it, it's not crossdressing only if you are TG/transition minded.

[docrobbysherry]

What I don't understand, and may be because I'm new round here, is the difference between femulating community and occasional dresser.

Does extent matter?

If I'm happy just in panties on a daily basis do I qualify?
Or do I have to go the whole hog and dress in heels, wig and makeup? What if that's once every 6 months?

That's the problem with labels. It may work for some but not everyone.

U shouldn't be concerned, Mike!

I've been on this site a long time. And, I can't recall ever seeing the terms, civilian, or femulating before?
And, I'm looking forward to NEVER SEEING THEM AGAIN!

[Star01]

Some are blessed with greater opportunity or in some cases make their opportunities happen better than some of us. After spending the past six months or so checking the posts daily I have to admire them for being true to themselves. Some of us would dress fully every day if we could (or if we were assertive enough to make our needs know). I talked about this with my therapist today in teletherapy.

[GaleWarning]

When will they ever learn?

Old CD, young CD, feel alright
On a warm Auckland City night.