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Thread: Ask a GG - Three

  1. #1
    Administrator Di's Avatar
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    Ask a GG - Three

    Note to the CDers: this is a question/answer thread only. You may ask any question you wish within the forum rules, but please do not comment on individual answers so as to not cloud up the thread with potential "discussions". When you ask a question, include the circumstances, if there are any, which gave rise to your question. If you must respond to a particular GG about what she has said, please do so via PM. If any of the questions/answers strike you as being "discussion worthy", please start a separate thread for this in the appropriate section with a link to the specific question or answer as a reference point, if necessary.
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    You may post a thank you to those who have responded, indeed it would be polite to do so, however, any further information you add will be deleted as you should have included it in the original question.
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    Last edited by Di; 04-29-2020 at 02:29 PM.
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  2. #2
    Member DianeT's Avatar
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    Hi GG ladies. Some of these questions (2-5) are a follow up to the recent GG questions thread in the MtF forum, I would like to have your side of things in these matters.
    I hope you don't mind the many questions, feel free to skip the ones you don't want to answer.

    1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?

    2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, do you go as friends (no demonstration of affection such as holding hands or kisses) or as a couple? If as friends only, is there a reason, such as fearing being identified as a lesbian couple?

    3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out or posting pictures)?

    4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!)

    5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?
    Last edited by DianeT; 04-25-2020 at 03:45 PM. Reason: going out of posting pics -> going out or ... / skipping mention

  3. #3
    Super Moderator char GG's Avatar
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    I'll give this a try, Diane,

    1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?

    Not sure, I know one FtM trans person who felt he was a male since he was a child, he transitioned to male around the age of 20. (I have known him since he was a baby). Otherwise, I don't think many girls (I'm sure there are exceptions) think about going through the dirty laundry to find their brother or dad's clothes to try on. There is a "yuck" factor associated with that. Just my opinion, perhaps it's the "forbidden" factor that leads boys to dry on dirty underwear or go through their sister's, mother's, or relative's clothing. I also never thought to check out my dad, brother's, or even my husbands clothes drawers with the intention of trying their stuff on. I really don't know enough about the science of the brain to cause MtF or FtM. In our home, the privacy of the items of other family members were respected.

    2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, do you go as friends (no demonstration of affection such as holding hands or kisses) or as a couple? If as friends only, is there a reason, such as fearing being identified as a lesbian couple?

    Yes, we only go out when he is CD'ed as friends (Mutual choice). We both want to keep the man/woman relationship in our marriage and not blur the lines. We talk about subjects we typically talk about. Not what some consider "girly subjects" It works for us. Everyone has a different feeling about how they want to be perceived.


    3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out of posting pictures)?

    Again, just my opinion. There is a time and place for the clothing you described. Home, bars and clubs are fine. If CDers appear in malls and grocery stores dressed like they are going clubbing, they definitely "out" themselves whether anyone says anything or not.


    4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!)

    I always feel feminine. I have hobbies such as sailing and motorcycle riding but I don't consider them gender specific or less feminine doing them. Clothes don't matter although I do like to get dressed up for appropriate occasions. It doesn't make me feel anymore feminine. It's the feeling of loving my family. I try to be the peacemaker. I feel compassion for those who are vulnerable (handicapped, little children, older folks, people who have some type of illness or condition).

    As far a masculinity, I love the traits my husband shares with me, such as loving family, compassion, sense of humor. I love him in all modes but I specifically think he looks particularly sexy with a beard (just my preference). He hasn't had a beard since he started CDing. It doesn't make him less masculine. Clothes don't make him less masculine either.


    5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?

    I agree that communication is key. No one should have to guess. My boundaries are the same for both of us. Which clothing we wear is secondary. I expect both of us to act like a married couple, not like single people.
    Last edited by char GG; 04-25-2020 at 06:18 PM.

  4. #4
    Administrator Di's Avatar
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    1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?
    In real life in our group that met in Canada there were many more trans men so in my experience I do not find that to be the case. Even here in Texas I have met several trans men at work. So I have not found that but the opposite.

    2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, we went out as a couple that were in love.

    3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out or posting pictures)

    Sherlyn dressed in short skirts ect for pictures for the forum because it was fun. We had photo shoots and she would try to get me to join in...we would do singing videos together ...just fun stuff.
    But going out she dressed like any normal womanl.

    4. What is your definition of femininity? Just being me nothing to do with clothes or makeup as I feel the same with or without.

    5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?
    For most couples first finding out and sorting this all out I think it does need to be spelled out because some cders see silence as a green light when the wife is just trying to be supportive and some cders go overboard.
    In our case I knew ...we grew through this together ....there was never any boundaries it was just our life together.

    Just to explain my answers/ experiences will be a bit different

    We met as Sher and Di I knew the girl side long before I ever met the guy side ( we were in different countries ) and our times together in the beginning were as Sher and Di till I finally had vacation and was there for a week. I fell in love with a beautiful person who was the same no matter what they were wearing.It was not like most couples being swept off their feet by a guy then finding out about the girl part. I sometimes think I should not answer but then I think if everyone could see it as being with the person you love and see past the clothes.
    Last edited by Di; 04-25-2020 at 10:58 PM.
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  5. #5
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?

    Fetishes are more common in men than in women. I’ve never met a FtM crossdresser. The FtM TGs I have known IRL were more like butch lesbians (do we still use this term)? They were more interested in shedding what they considered were trappings of stereotypical femininity than developing an avid interest in male fashion.

    2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, …

    We go as friends. I am not sexually attracted to women and I don’t like to pretend that I am.

    3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons?

    When we go out, I do not like my SO to wear the type of clothes I have worn to be attractive to men, for obvious reasons. A guy did hit on us once and I did not enjoy the experience. I am in a committed relationship with my SO and I hope my SO feels the same way, so why would we even want to signal to men (through our clothes or presentation), that we are available or we welcome attention.

    Also throughout my life, the women I have chosen to be my friends have rich lives and to us, clothing, makeup, and grooming are secondary - things we may put on to suit this or that occasion. And then it is forgotten about in favor of enjoying the people we are with. In other words, our lives revolve around family, friends, career, the event at hand, social concerns, etc, and not fashion and grooming. I would not choose as a friend a woman who is preoccupied with her clothes and looks - we would not have much in common - and I find it difficult to admire such obsessions in crossdressers. In all fairness though, when I was a very young woman my female friends and I would dress the way you describe to go to clubs. But the focus was on meeting guys - the clothes were mere tools to achieve that goal. We did not dress this way when we hung out together. I am older now and none of my friends dress the way you describe. Ever. If my SO should choose to wear the clothes you describe at home, it would entirely be his prerogative.


    4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!)

    Ideals of femininity change based on changing social values. The 1950s femininity wasn’t the same as the 40s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, etc. A woman who relies on older concepts of femininity, such as being someone soft, tender, perhaps coquettish, perhaps even devoid of "manly" knowledge such as having a head for finance, mechanics, construction, etc, would not fare well in our modern, competitive world. We need to be strong, capable, and self-sufficient now, and even aggressive when it it is called for, all qualities that used to be considered within the male sphere. Likewise, modern masculinity is not the ultra macho stereotype anymore. Modern men can be caring, nurturing, and sensitive (i.e. my adult sons), without betraying their male gender. So any personality trait, career choice, personal preference, etc, is unisex. Emotions, careers, personal interests, etc, are shared by both men and women. The only difference is the way we look.

    So what does femininity mean to me today in 2020? It is simply having a female body and everything that comes with it in contrast to the male sex: my breasts, vagina, higher voice than a male, smaller stature than most men, less body hair than most men, generally less physical strength, etc. In a nutshell, it’s purely physical. It has nothing to do with how I dress. I feel just as feminine wearing blue-jeans as dressing up for an occasion.


    5. … in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly.

    Yes, discussing boundaries is very important. If a husband or wife does not know his or her spouse’s boundary on any given matter, then they should ask before going ahead with it. This applies to everything, not just the crossdressing.
    Last edited by ReineD; 04-29-2020 at 12:37 PM. Reason: Added last 3 sentences to question 4, para 1.
    Reine

  6. #6
    FAB Moderator/ Eryn's GG Mimi's Avatar
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    1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?
    Women do have more freedom to dress in a masculine way than men have to dress in anything resembling feminine attire. Because of this, I don't think society really considers it "cross dressing", although keep in mind that this hasn't always been the case. I remember when girls were finally allowed to wear slacks to school, and then were allowed to wear jeans. We didn't consider it cross-dressing, though--it was more a way to be comfortable and active. My thought is that we are seeing more young ftm people coming out because there is more treatment and knowledge available, and they don't have to fly under the radar by dressing in masculine clothes. I also think that the overt masculine dress (not to the point of facial hair, which strikes me as ftm rather than cross-dressing) was to move away from the feminine stereotype. I have known a couple of women who enjoyed dressing up smartly in suits for occasions when most women were wearing fancy dresses, but I don't know the reasoning behind it.

    2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, do you go as friends (no demonstration of affection such as holding hands or kisses) or as a couple? If as friends only, is there a reason, such as fearing being identified as a lesbian couple?

    I am not really comfortable presenting as a lesbian couple, because that isn't my personal history or backstory. I'm also afraid of public perspective and having someone threaten us, even though we live in an accepting area. I'm not someone who likes to stand out. My spouse has transitioned to 24/7 and there are places we go that only know her as she is now, so they accept us as a couple. Even so, I don't like to have people stare at us, even if they are just curious.

    3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out or posting pictures)?

    I really, really dislike it. These clothes portray women in such a negative way--helpless, objects of desire, and an entirely male concept of what a woman should be. Very few women dress like this unless they are going to a vintage event or they are young and going clubbing. Whatever anybody wants to wear in the privacy of their home is their business, and if my spouse wanted to play dress up with these clothes then that would be her business. This forum would be an appropriate place to post pictures, if that was important. Otherwise it just screams "I'm a CDer from the 1950s and this is what I think women do". I think there's also a very real element of danger in wearing something clearly designed to attract male attention, and then going out. Not that I'm into victim-blaming, but there are very bad people out there who will hurt men that they think are trying to fool them or come on to them, so why put yourself in that situation? I wouldn't advise a woman to dress in the same manner and go out drinking by herself, either.

    4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!) I don't have an answer for this--femininity is a state of being, not a feeling. It's like asking what it feels like to have brown hair, or be short or be right handed.

    5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?

    What needs to be spelled out first is how important boundaries are to the spouse, and how flexible the spouse is about boundaries. If the spouse is a "line in the sand" type, then negotiate everything and don't assume anything. If your spouse is the type who says "I'm not comfortable with such and such but tell me why it's important" then I still wouldn't assume anything, but you might have more luck bringing it up for discussion. I would definitely disagree with the concept that just because we didn't discuss it, it must be okay. Do I really have to spell it out that I wouldn't want my spouse going on a dating site?
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  7. #7
    Accepting GG Dutchess's Avatar
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    Hi , I may switch these up as most know Ive been involved with two TOTALLY different people on the TG spectrum . So the answers are different as well .

    1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?
    I see alot of reactions to stress in this arena . Most would never admit it but I see and have experienced everything from mid lifecrisis' , fear of failing at what THEY think a man should be to deaths of SO's , all kinds of things .. not to mention the vast sexual side of it . This does not include the drag performers , that's different .

    2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, do you go as friends (no demonstration of affection such as holding hands or kisses) or as a couple? If as friends only, is there a reason, such as fearing being identified as a lesbian couple?
    Ok , my ex husband did not want to go out with me , I thought it was his rather coolish Dutch culture but I later learned he was hoping to attract a chaser . He would try to look as much like platonic friends as possible .

    My late SO and I could not keep our hands OFF of each other in public . We would put on a veritable show . We both wanted as many people as possible to see we were with each other lol good times <3 We didnt care how people saw us ..

    3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out or posting pictures)?

    I wont go out with a caricature of a woman and have them think they should be taken seriously . I prefer mates with very long hair and ex husband and SO both had very long natural hair but my ex husband dressed in fetish/street level prostitution wear to do ordinary things , he thought this made him a goddess and more of a woman than anyone . I did not like this, I could not seem to find my place in the relationship . He also posted pics of himself like this on a site meant to attract men .

    My SO wore normal current womens fashions and did not post pics , this helped . Like Reine stated I would not hang out with women that dressed that way or whos every waking moment centered around dressing and grooming and complimenting -- again -- We do NOT compliment like some here think we do .

    4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!)

    I have been thinking about this question a few days ... as I was running uphill one morning in my Seattle Seahawks running pants and a warm up top ... and still 100% female . Its an essence . Seriously ,, its nothing you can manufacture with make up or clothes or manicures .. that stuff is fun but not what makes us , us. HRT will not replace it or make it happen . Its not submission either . Its an essence . Masculinity can be so many things , SO many more facets to the oft mentioned redneck/macho types mentioned here . Todays masculinity is far more gentle and emotional . Masculinity for me is beautiful ( yes beautiful ) ,smart , mannerly and gentle. Fancy even , sort of a sleekness and not afraid to show vulnerability . Not rough or gross , etc .

    5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?[/QUOTE]

    Sometimes I wonder about this . Like when they say they couldnt read minds as an excuse to do something they know would be a wreck . This is way more serious than many Cd-ers make it out to be , they wish it weren't so serious but they know it is .
    I had to have boundaries with my ex husband because his life was always hidden and there was always something he was not telling .
    My SO and I had no boundaries because everything was on the table , if I didn't like it I wouldnt have been with her .
    Boundaries aren't so difficult if we know upfront .
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  8. #8
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    Although some do no apply to me since I don't live with a crossdresser, I will attempt to reply to express my way of thinking.

    1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?
    I think the numbers are not representative of the reality for two reasons: One, if a woman wears something which is considered stereotypicaly male (to be honest, I don't know what that will be, a tuxedo or a three piece suit?), it will be cut to accommodate her natural body and then be considered made for females. If a woman wears something that is cut for a male body, there is no way it will fit her properly as there are anatomical differences that would make it impossible. So we have access to everything we need to express any variation to our identity already. Bear in mind, that hasn't happened painlessly, as women had to fight and persist to be "allowed" what we now consider "normal". Which brings me to point two: women would only up the ante to purely male attire (so buying from the male department) if they are FtM transmen. That normally is followed by hormones and SRS. At this point, they are not crossdressing and everyone knows that they are male. But I think that is the same for MtF, more crossdressers than transwomen. Correct me if I am wrong. So I think it's only a case of women wearing trousers for practicality and not because they consider it an expression of their gender identity that makes it appear like there are more MtF than FtM.

    2. For those who go out with their SO dressed, do you go as friends (no demonstration of affection such as holding hands or kisses) or as a couple? If as friends only, is there a reason, such as fearing being identified as a lesbian couple?
    N/A

    3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out or posting pictures)?
    Fro me, it would come down to motivation. Why would you want to do dress in such a way in either environment. I know if I dress like this, there is a reason behind it. It's normally either to be appreciated by my partner or by other men. I am certainly not dressing to be appreciated by other women. So my motivation is clear. If our motivation is the same, then there is a problem. II have yet to meet a woman who would dress in "the outfit that time forgot" for personal pleasure so it baffles me. Now, whether it would have been different at home, I can't answer since I didn't have to deal with this at home and don't know if it would have been a compromise I would be willing to make.

    4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!)
    Strength, motherhood (not just to children, but to people too), peace keeping and the need to make the world a better place for everyone. I don't bat 100% but am a work in progress!

    5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?[/QUOTE]
    Anything that is not discussed and is not agreed on is outside of the boundaries. You don't need to read minds to know that is the only way to approach crossdressing or any contentious subject. Everything else is excuses.

  9. #9
    Member DianeT's Avatar
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    Thanks to all of you for your answers. Appreciate the insights. And my wife reads you too!

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    Member Robbiegirl's Avatar
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    Has you S.O. ever put on some lingerie that turned you on or at least made him look hot since it showed off his assets ?

    I posted a thread about a cute babydoll nightie I have been sneaking around wearing. I think it really shows off my large shoulders, strong arms, and strong legs.

    So maybe Guys can look sexy in lingerie also ! Or am I dreaming

    Can most women look past the lace and see the manly man underneath ?

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    I am confused by this question. Are you asking if lingerie can make a man look hot or if we can ignore the lingerie and think he looks hot underneath?

  12. #12
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Yes, you are dreaming. Women’s lingerie is associated with women in GG’s eyes. And hetero GGs are not attracted to women.

    A man’s naked chest is infinitely more sexy to a GG than his chest clad in lingerie. However, some of us can ignore the lingerie - pretend it isn’t there - if we love our SO and understand that he needs to crossdress. This doesn’t mean that we encourage the crossdressing in bed or that lingerie on our SO enhances the experience for us.

    So to answer your question, no. The lingerie does not make him look hot.
    Reine

  13. #13
    Super Moderator char GG's Avatar
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    You are absolutely dreaming, Robbie.

    As Reine stated, I am a hetero woman who is definitely not attracted to a man in lingerie. This seems to be more of a CD (um, maybe your) fantasy than a GG fantasy.

    This is not to say that there are some GG's in the world that are attracted to the scenario that you describe but since you are asking the GG's on this forum, my answer is emphatically, NO.

  14. #14
    Accepting GG Dutchess's Avatar
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    No and i am a hetero girl attracted to very androgynous male folk too, I obviously dont care what gender you want to present as . I am not visually stimulated like that .. I like alot of sensuality/beauty and who the person IS is what gets my attn.
    Also my life experiences , my ex husband would HAVE to dress up in major lingerie to be able to be with me . So now that makes me feel like I alone am not good enough and you need that or else you will not be interested . I admit this last thing is exclusive to me and how that went down so .. not everyone is that way .
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  15. #15
    Member Miel GG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianeT View Post
    Hi GG ladies. Some of these questions (2-5) are a follow up to the recent GG questions thread in the MtF forum, I would like to have your side of things in these matters.
    I hope you don't mind the many questions, feel free to skip the ones you don't want to answer.
    1. In your opinion, what is the reason why there seems to be much more MtF crossdressers than FtM?

    As historically men didn't share the power, women were compelled to make believe that they were men to access to some freedom and empowerment. They had for example to use a male pseudo in art, etc. And of course dressed up like men to enter universities or exercice a masculine profession.

    In the late 60's women in occident began to massively wear trousers which are male markers and also much more practical in everydays life. The trousers are also symbollically a way to defend access to their genitals (don't forget that every girl has experimented and/or feared that boys lift their skirt... Never happened with trousers of course).

    Nowadays I presume that FtM are probably more TS than CD. In fact we have had popularized examples of female artists who began transitioning recently in France.

    I also believe that men's clothes or appearance are much less eroticized in a patriarchal society.


    3. For GGs who dislike CDers dressing in a stereotypical way (e.g. tight clothing, short skirts, nylons, high heels, long hair, etc.), what are the reasons? Would the reasons be different for private CDing (dressing at home, not posting pictures), and for CDing with real world exposure (going out or posting pictures)?

    Wow. As GG and feminist I dislike this sort of stereotypical outfit. It tends to reduce women only to objects made for men's pleasure. I believe here CDs confuse (voluntarily ?) feminine outfits and over-eroticized (sexy in men's vocabulary) outfits. I don't deny to anyone the right to love this type of outfit but I cannot approve when they claim they present as women this way.

    If my goal was to pass, I certainly would look around me and observe what women look like in real world. What is the chance that at 11am I see a woman dressed for Ibiza's nightclubbing ?
    But if my goal was to turn me on, as an hetero CD I could try to present like a pop star or a movie star or any fantasized sexy girl. But I surely would not mystify myself by saying that I want anything else apart from excitement.

    As GGs we integrated that wearing those will make us desirable.

    4. What is your definition of femininity? (feel free to answer about masculinity as well!)

    As I was born female and educated as a girl I learned how to be feminine (taking care of others, be patient, be pretty...). But for me femininity is a concept created by men to lock up women in a subordinate role in order to retain power only for themselves. For three centuries, femininity was opposite to masculinity : passivity, grace, softness... are used to describe women. Are really women like this ? Of course not ! Women can be tough, pushy,... But when they act like that, some say that they are not real ladies... Things change slowly, but thanks to feminists, nowadays women and men are allowed to adopt a behavior traditionally assigned to the opposite gender. So we see appearing women not so feminine (submissive) and men not so masculine (dominant)

    Nevertheless women are subject to pressure from a society shaped by men for men. The term femininity, which is socially acceptable, lets men dictate their will and constrain women to act in order to please them. Among others, women are asked to be at least decorative and at most sexy. So femininity has nothing to do with clothes or make up. The more women are emancipated the more they reject the fact that femininity is linked to clothes or make-up.

    Just a personal thought, as in this forum I often read that empathy is a feminine trait : recent scientific researchs have concluded that female and male children under 2 years are able to show empathy... Another unisex feature to meditate about !

    5. About anticipating GG's boundaries, many CDers have answered that they couldn't read minds and boundaries should be spelled out (in other words if something has not been explicitly forbidden then it must fly). What is your opinion on this?


    This is a hot topic ! Nobody is able to read minds of course, but only CDs are able to explain to SOs what CDing is consisting of for them. Most GGs don't know about CDing, and even if they do, they cannot imagine the extent of the CDing of their SO. This is the responsibility of the CD to explain what is his practice, what are his needs and maybe his wants. Only by knowing all that the SO will be able to process it and to set boundaries.

    Generally commitment between two adults involve limits. So if boundaries are not explicity spelled out, please CDs don't speculate and ask your SO if it is OK. Prove your maturity by acting like that and accepting no for an answer. Don't forget that you are bringing CDing in the life of your SO and not the other way around.
    Last edited by Miel GG; 05-08-2020 at 05:50 PM. Reason: Typo

  16. #16
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    The UK government is shortly to publish it’s proposals around gender self-identification and it seems to be heading in what for many in the LGBTQ community is a retrograde direction. One of the issues is around potentially giving legal protections to “Safe spaces” for women. This is thought to potentially include toilets and changing rooms.

    One of the reasons offered is that if self-identification was allowed a male could wake up one morning having never been near any form of dressing or had any thoughts about their gender identity, decide they were female and thereby legitimately gain access to women’s toilets and changing rooms.

    As those who live with SO’s who may present as female in public and it would seem well placed to understand the reasons why they do so, can I ask you to consider the following.

    1. Accepting the very real need for women suffering both physical and mental abuse to have places of safety and given that the vast majority of abusers are known to their victims, is the notion of a safe space in relation to those in the LGBTQ community sharing facilities labelled for women just pandering to some people’s misconceptions and prejudices?

    2. Although (at least in UK) the law has on the statute books many instruments by which persons seeking to invade female spaces on false pretenses (voyeuristic/sexual/violent) can be dealt with, i.e. action likely to cause a breach of the peace, behaviour likely to outrage common decency, lewd behaviour in a public place, common or sexual assault, do you feel that the as it stands further legislation is required and if so what form should it take?

    3. If simple self-certification is not acceptable, what further measures in your opinion are required being mindful of the Trans community?

    4. How do you see the law dealing with those who don’t wish to transition fully but present either full or part time as female such that it also ensures their safety while in public. Should the law accommodate their needs with a view to their safety and give them access to a safe space?
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  17. #17
    Super Moderator char GG's Avatar
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    Ok, I'll respond,

    I am answering the questions as they were posed here. My personal opinion is that CDers and Trans people should be able to self identify and use the facilities where they also feel safest.

    So to answer the questions as they were posed:

    1. Accepting the very real need for women suffering both physical and mental abuse to have places of safety and given that the vast majority of abusers are known to their victims, is the notion of a safe space in relation to those in the LGBTQ community sharing facilities labelled for women just pandering to some people?s misconceptions and prejudices?

    I think this statement is twofold and should not be asked as one question.
    Yes, I agree that the majority of abusers are known to their victims. However, I don't think the abusers are following their victims into public facilities to cause havoc.

    I understand that there are people, most likely not LGBTQ, that feel they can self-identify as a woman to gain entry to the ladies rooms for a lark. There are most likely stories of assaults at the hands of strangers in the public facilities. Not sure how common that is in the UK but it probably happens.

    In the US, there are news stories of some men setting up cameras, cell phones, and video recorders in the ladies rooms. People that are caught are dealt with harshly but many are never caught.


    2. Although (at least in UK) the law has on the statute books many instruments by which persons seeking to invade female spaces on false pretenses (voyeuristic/sexual/violent) can be dealt with, i.e. action likely to cause a breach of the peace, behaviour likely to outrage common decency, lewd behaviour in a public place, common or sexual assault, do you feel that the as it stands further legislation is required and if so what form should it take?

    Those laws should be upheld. I don't know what has happened in the UK to cause a shift in the thinking of the government. I doubt very much that it was one or two isolated incidents.

    I don't think it's possible to do gender checks as someone enters the private spaces. I did read some articles written by women who have been sexually assaulted (the articles didn't specify where the assaults took place). They have very real concerns and feel they deserve a private space where they don't have to worry about the motives of strangers. Also, ladies are not only using the facilities but using the common spaces to change clothes, fix broken straps, removing clothing items to wash out stains, etc. I don't think they should have to worry about who they are sharing the common spaces with. Women should feel safe going into the women's public facilities.


    3. If simple self-certification is not acceptable, what further measures in your opinion are required being mindful of the Trans community?

    Again, this is just my opinion; transwomen are women, they should not be excluded from the ladies rooms. I don't know how the government would monitor transwomen or those who are without surgery or still in the process of transitioning. Not sure if the UK has worked out the details.

    I can tell you that many women have never heard of CDers or maybe not even trans people. I know it's hard for this community to believe that but I think that women seeing a man in a dress entering the ladies room has either made a mistake, will be alarmed, or think someone is trying to "sneak a peak".


    4. How do you see the law dealing with those who don't wish to transition fully but present either full or part time as female such that it also ensures their safety while in public. Should the law accommodate their needs with a view to their safety and give them access to a safe space?

    Not my place to make an accommodation needs idea. My SO usually has "single' toilet areas mapped out before he leaves the house. He always tries to stick to the single space option. This has worked out well for him. There have been no problems if he enters a single stall marked "women". I don't feel it's right for a private restaurant, office space, or the government to be expected to build additional facilities marked "other".

    It seems to me that the majority is going to rule here, the majority being the CIS people. Right or wrong, it sounds like that is the way UK is taking this issue.
    Last edited by char GG; 06-23-2020 at 06:15 PM.

  18. #18
    Administrator Di's Avatar
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    All the reasons they are stating seem to me be myths .
    Sick people wanting to act out nefarious activitys like the sexual assault mentioned ect will act out law or no law and has no business being included.
    For me NONE STOP
    The only safe thing is
    using the bathroom that matches your gender identity, not the one that corresponds with the gender they were assigned at birth.
    NO WAY would I ever have wanted Sherlyn to ever use the men?s room.
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  19. #19
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    Thanks for your replies.
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  20. #20
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helen_Highwater View Post
    1. Accepting the very real need for women suffering both physical and mental abuse to have places of safety and given that the vast majority of abusers are known to their victims, is the notion of a safe space in relation to those in the LGBTQ community sharing facilities labelled for women just pandering to some people's misconceptions and prejudices?
    I don't think the notion of a safe space panders to misconceptions and prejudices. Yes, there are some people who are prejudiced, but there are many who are not.

    Did you know that 81% of women have experienced sexual harassment and over 50% of women have been a victim of some form of sexual assault?

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ual-harassment
    https://www.rainn.org/statistics/vic...exual-violence

    Due to various stages of undress, bathrooms and changing rooms are places where women feel most vulnerable, although I would guess more so in changing rooms than cubicle bathrooms. (Many? most?) women do not want to see a person with a penis in places where they are naked or half dressed, despite the understanding that no transsexual and (many? most?) crossdressers do not dress for sexual reasons. But, many crossdressers do dress for these reasons, and even if their intent is not to rape or to sexually harass, women do not want to be unwitting participants in anyone's crossdressing fantasy. Being an unwitting participant makes these GGs an object.

    Also, exterior appearances give no clue to a person's identity as a transsexual, transgender, or a crossdresser. The women in bathrooms and changing rooms cannot know the identity or motives of people with penises who wish to use these facilities.


    Quote Originally Posted by Helen_Highwater View Post
    2. Although (at least in UK) the law has on the statute books many instruments by which persons seeking to invade female spaces on false pretenses (voyeuristic/sexual/violent) can be dealt with, i.e. action likely to cause a breach of the peace, behavior likely to outrage common decency, lewd behavior in a public place, common or sexual assault, do you feel that the as it stands further legislation is required and if so what form should it take?
    Yes, there are sexual assault and harassment laws. But, few women report assault and harassment for the following reasons, see reason one, two, and three:

    http://hrlibrary.umn.edu/svaw/harass...6reporting.htm

    Also, (some? many? most?) women who do report are either victimized, or their reports are filed and not acted upon. It is easier to just keep quiet and move on. This is why it is important that the places where women are more vulnerable be free of people with penises.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helen_Highwater View Post
    3. If simple self-certification is not acceptable, what further measures in your opinion are required being mindful of the Trans community?
    It's an individual thing. If a transsexual/transgender has not had SRS or if they look like a man wearing makeup and a wig (not all do), there should be options for gender-neutral facilities where men are not allowed, that can be used by both people who identify as transgender and by GGs who do not feel threatened by the presence of people with penises in these places. This might even be labeled "Women and Transgenders" and be considered the main facility, with a separate facility labeled "Women" for GGs who prefer a space free of people with penises. But, I would make both facilities the same size.


    Quote Originally Posted by Helen_Highwater View Post
    4. How do you see the law dealing with those who don't wish to transition fully but present either full or part time as female such that it also ensures their safety while in public. Should the law accommodate their needs with a view to their safety and give them access to a safe space?
    See #3.



    I realize that outward appearance does not always match internal gender ID and the view among the majority in the T community is that simple self-certification should be enough to allow access to the appropriate private facilities. In an ideal world where the vast majority of women had never been sexually harassed or assaulted, such access would not be an issue. But given the number of historical abuses at the hands of men and given that GGs cannot determine based on appearance someone else's gender ID, I think that GGs have the right to demand safe places to undress in, where there are no people with penises or no visibly male-looking people.

    I don't count myself among the women who need safe places. But I do recognize there are many GGs who do. I disagree with labeling them all as prejudiced against the T community.
    Last edited by ReineD; 07-05-2020 at 04:06 PM. Reason: Decided to put Helen's questions in quotes for clarity.
    Reine

  21. #21
    Junior Member SirDonna's Avatar
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    Question:

    What are GG's experiences with SO being criticized by other GG's for having a CD in the house?

    Or even broader, what conversations/snipets have you experienced with being with a CD?

    Background:
    CD is only in home as fear is of nasty comments, shunning behavior, and other put downs for seeing a CD in same place as SO?
    We have so much negative talk today in society, that this would be just too much.

    So any feedback, especially along lines of
    -- does this happen?
    -- what type of things are said?
    -- how is this behavior interpreted?
    -- what are good responses?

    Thank you all.

  22. #22
    Administrator Di's Avatar
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    I never had any comments and we had friends, my daughters and neighbors around us in our home and out and about.
    I pretty much had like minded people in our circle.

    I can not even imagine that kinda behavior in my home. If anyone would have they would have been shunned by me FOREVER.
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    You forever and always will be my one and only true love . ❤️

  23. #23
    Super Moderator char GG's Avatar
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    We've lived in our neighborhood of for over 40 years. Since my hubby didn't start cross dressing until approximately 7 years ago, some neighbors expressed surprise. But after that initial reaction, no one said anything negative. He only CDes to go out, so basically they see him walk from the house to the car. I believe at first, they didn't think that I knew he was outside CDed. After I told them that I was ok with it, they were ok with it. They treat him the same as they always have. Our closest neighbor said, "well, live and let live".

    The only one who didn't really understand was our handicapped son who does not live with us. He doesn't really like to see his dad CD'ed it but doesn't complain, basically he just doesn't want to see it.

    Our daughter doesn't live near us but she doesn't care whether he CD'es or not. She lives in a large city and has seen and knows other trans and CDers.
    Last edited by char GG; 07-31-2020 at 10:45 PM.

  24. #24
    Accepting GG Dutchess's Avatar
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    No , not here either . If ANYONE I knew did any of that it would be the last time they ever did . We also had our friends and two of my daughters and their wild friends . We had ALOT of people in the house over the years .

    If you are mine - and that goes for both my wacky ex husband or my beloved late longtime companion -I defend you to the end just like I would hope you defend me . Period .

    Now my late fiance( Kat) and I were always just soppingly in love and would readily engage in lots of PDA and sometimes ,yes, people we did not know would stare I am sure some was how s/he was presenting and alot was how we were with each other but ,really, we didn't care . No one said anything about Kats appearance at all.
    My ex husband would never go out but he had alot of inner shame/guilt .

    If anyone you actually knows bothers you like that you don't need to hang around with them anyway
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  25. #25
    Junior Member SirDonna's Avatar
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    Thank you

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