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Thread: WIFEY and NIMBY

  1. #26
    Silver Member NancySue's Avatar
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    DianeT, Thanks very much. Learned something new today. Appreciate it. I know I?m one of the lucky ones. I would?ve bet the farm she?d be long gone when I told her. Thankfully, I was wrong. We read a lot and talked a lot. Bottom line...neither one of us understand my CDing. There are three stipulations...1. Don?t wear her clothes, 2. Don?t go out and 3. Tell her immediately if there any changes...i.e transition. I agreed to all.

  2. #27
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    My wife and I were introduced to each other by mutual friends and both of us had just gotten out of abusive marriages. We didn't want to meet but did meet at our friends home. I had been working on an 18 wheeler and was filthy, with a ripped shirt and looked very undesirable to say the least. She was dressed up to go out partying for her birthday that was a couple days ago, She looked fine.

    She told me later that she thought I looked like a Hells Angel. We talked for awhile and then went to a cafe for dinner, then went to my place to talk some more. After a bit I told her I needed to get cleaned up and before going to clean up I decided to tell her everything about me. I handed her my journal and said she should and could read it. It contained everything about my life, I figured to handle it this way that way she could not say I ever lied about anything. It took awhile to get rid of all the grease and when I came out she said she needed to think about what she had read. A couple of days later I called her and asked if she would like to go with me to San Diego, we would be gone 3 days. She accepted and we talked and have talked for the last 30 years.

    I can dress whenever I want, but I dont push it. I give her plenty of time with the male she married and the cross dersser she buys clothes for. We have NO secrets past or present. I am truly a blessed person.

  3. #28
    Aspiring Artist Kelly DeWinter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miel GG View Post
    @Devi,


    @Kelly,
    Heart, but I shall say Love is the argument used by patriarchal society to manipulate women. In this society, women are traditionally in charge of care, of the well-being of their family, and the name of Love is always used to force them to sacrifice themselves, i.e. don't divorce : you will hurt your children, don't leave your man : endure the behavior of your husband, he has had an affair because men have more sexual needs (wtf !)... With this argument, you only lead women to act to the benefit of the husband and you deny them the right to preserve themselves too.
    I am quite sure that when you have an important decision to make you try to be rational and don't let emotions guide your choice.
    I had only meant to the OP that her OP was applying head thinking (logic) to what her spouse may be seeing as heart (emotional) issue for her. Some people like what they like for no logical reason other than it's what makes them happy and comfortable. My wife and I are almost complete opposites of what would be considered "traditional" emotional roles for our bio genders, I'm more emotional and she is more logical, but we make it work .
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchess View Post
    I agree with Paulie and Roberta here .. 100%

    I don't care what anyone does at this stage of my life as long as it doesn't hurt anyone , that doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to hang out with you though . That goes for many things . Some behaviors in this world are like what the heck !?!?!?! but hey as long as it doesn't injure anyone ..
    In my case it's because I am not a very straight person , I never have been so I cannot judge .. at all .. sometimes MY behavior has been outlandish also .

    Everyone has hard limits , they just do. As far as CDing I cannot tolerate extremes ( except for Docs pict o stories , I LOVE Docs pict o stories) . If you are being authentic fine but I am not into caricatures of women with alt personalities and fake voices .



    As for fish , I was raised on an island in Texas and I love to deep sea fish and will eat anything that swims .
    No offense to doc, but isn't the ability to literally put on and take off a 'whole' female skin the ultimate caricature of a woman ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tammy Lynn Tx View Post
    My wife and I were introduced to each other by mutual friends and both of us had just gotten out of abusive marriages. We didn't want to meet but did meet at our friends home. I had been working on an 18 wheeler and was filthy, with a ripped shirt and looked very undesirable to say the least. She was dressed up to go out partying for her birthday that was a couple days ago, She looked fine.

    She told me later that she thought I looked like a Hells Angel. We talked for awhile and then went to a cafe for dinner, then went to my place to talk some more. After a bit I told her I needed to get cleaned up and before going to clean up I decided to tell her everything about me. I handed her my journal and said she should and could read it. It contained everything about my life, I figured to handle it this way that way she could not say I ever lied about anything. It took awhile to get rid of all the grease and when I came out she said she needed to think about what she had read. A couple of days later I called her and asked if she would like to go with me to San Diego, we would be gone 3 days. She accepted and we talked and have talked for the last 30 years.

    I can dress whenever I want, but I dont push it. I give her plenty of time with the male she married and the cross dersser she buys clothes for. We have NO secrets past or present. I am truly a blessed person.
    Way to go !
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  4. #29
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    My wife was very much a NIMBY. She admits now that there was a time when she would rather see me dead than in a dress. My reading of this thread tells me that she has a perfect right to hold this opinion and that since my feminine tendency was hidden before we were married, she had no opportunity to decide for herself to reject me, and I have no right to impose my dressing on her now. Do I have a handle on it?

    Well, that's not how it happened here. In my naivete or arrogance, I believe I have a right to evolve. True, my dressing emerged well before we met, and should perhaps be on the table. But I hated that part of myself in that period, suppressed her and believed her to be permanently eliminated. So when Suzanne re-emerged and asserted herself with a vengeance, she would not be denied. I have since come to terms with that part of me, even to love her contribution to my life. She is so powerful a force for whatever is good in me that if I were to be given The Ultimatum, I would have chosen to end the marriage.

    Fortunately, it never came to that. My wife's Catholic faith tells her "For better or Worse", so instead of hiring lawyers, we hired a marriage counselor. To my wife's great credit, she re-examined her feelings and softened. At home, my approach has been to demonstrate that I am the same person regardless of how I am dressed. It has worked.

    Maybe you think i am in the wrong here and that I'm lucky the marriage hasn't crashed. But people do evolve over time. You can't expect someone to be exactly the same person in their fifties that they were in their early twenties. I shudder to think of my body being inhabited by the spirit of a nineteen year old in all his immaturity. Maybe i have crossed a line, and evidently many of you wouldn't survive such a transgression, but in our case it turned out to salvageable.

  5. #30
    Aspiring Member jacques's Avatar
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    hello Diane,
    I do not know your wife so I stress that I am not commenting about her.
    I will make an general observation that closet bigots (for example racists) will often try to appear tolerant by declaring "I've got nothing against .... "or "some of my best friends are ... ". A truly tolerant person would not feel the need to say that. Also, we will rarely change the minds of the intolerant by accusing them of being intolerant - the shutters come down. Similarly trying to use logic to highlight the hypocrisy of the semi-tolerant can just highlight your superiority - and nobody likes a smart ass!
    By accepting the NIMBY types we show how tolerant we are, without having to prove it.
    luv J
    Last edited by jacques; 05-15-2020 at 07:34 AM.

  6. #31
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    [QUOTE=Kelly DeWinter;4447894] No offense to doc, but isn't the ability to literally put on and take off a 'whole' female skin the ultimate caricature of a woman ?


    Do you see me going out with Sherry ????? No you do not

    I said plainly that the pictostories were the exception ... I find it fascinating how he ( Doc) thinks up these things and puts them together . He is different from every single person on this forum . Its more like some kind of performance art with the pictures telling a different story each time for years .
    Last edited by Dutchess; 05-15-2020 at 10:22 AM.
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  7. #32
    Member Miel GG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly DeWinter View Post
    I had only meant to the OP that her OP was applying head thinking (logic) to what her spouse may be seeing as heart (emotional) issue for her. Some people like what they like for no logical reason other than it's what makes them happy and comfortable. My wife and I are almost complete opposites of what would be considered "traditional" emotional roles for our bio genders, I'm more emotional and she is more logical, but we make it work .!
    Sorry @Kelly, I obviously misunderstood your previous post.

  8. #33
    Senior Member DianeT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchess View Post
    I find it fascinating how he ( Doc) thinks up these things and puts them together . He is different from every single person on this forum . Its more like some kind of performance art with the pictures telling a different story each time for years .
    It baffles me how Doc has a picture for every situation

  9. #34
    Girl about Town Jodie_Lynn's Avatar
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    The purpose of the post is to deny the NIMBY qualifier for wives who consider themselves tolerant to crossdressing
    So, in effect, you are denying your spouse the right to decide what is, and isn't tolerable to her?

    To use your own, flawed analogy, just because YOU like fish, and your spouse has no issue with you eating fish, then SHE should eat fish as well.

    Just because someone is willing to tolerate certain behaviours in OTHERS, it doesn't mean that they will accept such behaviours in their own situations. Why is this so hard to understand?
    Before you can love another, you must first like yourself

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  10. #35
    Senior Member DianeT's Avatar
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    JodieLynn, I agree with you, it is not so hard to understand. And the whole point of my post is to demonstrate that. So we just happen to be on the same page you and I, and you may want to read my post a second time, knowing this. The example I gave about fish is a demonstration by absurdity. It is pushing to the extreme the logic of the previous example, in order to prove it wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchess View Post
    As for fish , I was raised on an island in Texas and I love to deep sea fish and will eat anything that swims .
    I like the way you say this, and it ringed a bell. I have an uncle who travelled all around the world for work. He is an absolute lover of cuisine and an insatiable curious mind for all types of foods. So any country he visited, he tasted the local dishes and ate, as he once told my wife and I, "about every beast that walks, crawls or swims".
    One day right after we had lunch in his house, he goes to a little cupboard and reaches for a suspicious bottle and presents it to us. On the bottle is a tag with English and Chinese words. Inside the bottle is a clear liquid. Inside the clear liquid is a lizard with the belly cut and the guts exposed and floating around. Yummy. He tells us it is a digestive liquor he got from a Chinese cook of his friends and asks us if we want some. My wife and I decline politely. He then remarks that the liquid level is a little below the top part of the lizard which isn't good for conservation. He reaches to another bottle of pure alcohol and fills up the lizard liquor bottle with it. Then he vigorously shakes the bottle to mix the pure alcohol with the liquor. In the process the lizard gets vigorously shaken too and sends little pieces of its body in all directions. The liquid which was once clear is now shrouded in lizard scales and squamas.
    My uncle uncaps the bottle, pours a small shooter glass and... bottoms up! He lands the glass on the wooden table with a clang! and declares: "Good for the heart!". If only I had a photograph of the look on our faces at this instant
    Last edited by DianeT; 05-16-2020 at 04:43 AM.

  11. #36
    Silver Member Maria 60's Avatar
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    I'm going to throw in my 2 cents. I don't mind if someone doesn't like fish, but it's the person who never tasted fish but just goes by the smell or what other people tell them. They don't give things a chance, who knows you mite like it at the end of the day.

  12. #37
    Senior Member DianeT's Avatar
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    Maria, if I follow the analogy, that is saying that a wife should be in a relationship with a crossdresser husband before being entitled to declare that it is not for her. I have to disagree. If I applied this to myself, it would mean that I should engage in same gender sex before being allowed to declare that I am a heterosexual man. I don't believe that is true.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by confused_cathreen View Post
    Secrets are never helpful but I can see how someone might not want to go through the extend of what they DID in the PAST. Crossdressing is/will be PRESENT and FUTURE. And although trying to get your head around what your partner might have done once or multiple times in the past can be tough, especially if it clashes to who you know your partner to be now, it is a thousand times harder when you are taking about something that your partner was doing yesterday/wants to do today and every day/year/decade. You are trying to compare apples and seaweed here. It's not the word "secret". It's the concept of (from your side) secretive behaviour, of hiding, of lying, of avoiding family trips so you can "get your girl on", of possible sexual incompatibility, of biting your tongue when your wife is openly going clothes shopping and she asks you if that looks good on her, with a healthy dose of (from your wife's side) "wtf" when she discovers it/ you tell her, after years of thinking she knew everything about you. "Everyone has secrets" is poor rationalisation from those doing the secreting.



    Totally agree with Miel, Devi, nothing Diane said was misogynistic or macho. I think your view of women is skewed and slightly fairytale-ish. The balance between emotion and logic is something we all employ when trying to make decisions, men and women alike. If you think you are being only logical in every decision you ever made, I think you need to look harder. Crossdressing is not a logical act. With the whole subtext attached to it (I don't agree with it, btw), the consequences to life and family, with the self-loathing I have seen many here struggle with, it's not logical. It's a highly emotional act, littered with emotional mental reactions. That's why it's impossible to answer the question of "why you do it?" Every answer I saw here started with "because it makes me feel..." There are many I have seen trying rationalisation (makes me more empathetic, easier to talk to, calms me down when stressed etc) but to a purely logical mind, all of these things can be counteracted by alternative methods. I have met exactly 0 women who need clothes to experience any of the above mental states. It exclusively happens to crossdressers. So, to a non-crossdresser male or a GG, it is impossible to empathise. I invite you to stop trying to assign logic and emotion to men and women. They both happen by humans.
    Apples to Seaweed....no...let me start off by explaining a bit about my background. I spend a good time of my life as an Interviewer/Interrogator. It was my job to get into peoples heads and make them confess to crimes they had committed solely through the use of psychology and speech. Think "Gibbs" of NCIS, except in my world that character is very amaturish.

    One of our truisms is that "past is prelude to the future". Meaning that for the vast majority of people behavior expressed in the past, and especially the period from birth to early 20s is "hardwired" into a person. I'll just throw out right now that some people do change, most though just control their behavior. Though they often think they have changed. A person can go for years even decades thinking they have changed till they encounter the right trigger.

    So secrets of past behavior are NOT ok to keep "because it is in the past". That is a logical fallacy. At best it is wishful thinking, at worst it is lying to oneself and ones SO.

    That is my professional opinion, an opinion so common in my "world" as to be an axiom.

  14. #39
    Aspiring Member Star01's Avatar
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    This subject resonates with me and my situation. I have been struggling with dadt and trying to work up the courage to revisit the talk. I mentioned my wife being very tolerant and speculated that she would be accepting and was schooled on this by the more experienced which I am thankful for as it made me take pause.

    One thing that always comes up is that I should have told her before we were married. It was 1970, she was 17, I was 18, I was worried about her daddy getting his shotgun out and had not put 2 and 2 together and did not know myself. Fortunately the marriage has survived and we have both grown since then. I have no desire to end the marriage but I have accepted that I am a crossdresser who may have deeper gender issues since nest emptied out and adult kids stopped moving back in. My home has literally been a zoo for most of the last fifty years where I supported a family on one income and rarely had time to think about my own needs. I know that is hard for some to relate to but that is why I did not tell her. I did not know myself which is a common theme for those who marry young.

    I perceive my wife as accepting, she watches every show and series with LGBTQ themes, my kids gay friends always loved that about my wife and drop in to see us now that our kids have moved out. My oldest daughter came out as a lesbian and left a 20 year marriage and my wife is fully supportive and we still have a close relationship with our former son in law. I have mentioned that and it was quickly pointed out that those things do not guarantee my wife's acceptance. I am thankful that was pointed out even though it is not the response I wanted to hear.

    I am not in a position to offer advice or point to personal experience to prove any points but am appreciative of these types of discussions and follow them with great interest hoping to learn things that apply to my situation.

    I thought secure in revisiting my dadt based on my wife's tolerant attitude but posts like this have caused me to take pause and learn more. Thank you.

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    By the way, I love fish and my wife has a shell fish allergy. I have owned boats and what we refer to as fish houses for ice fishing but that does not guarantee acceptance.

  15. #40
    Silver Member Rhonda Jean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michellebej View Post
    One of our truisms is that "past is prelude to the future". Meaning that for the vast majority of people behavior expressed in the past, and especially the period from birth to early 20s is "hardwired" into a person.
    Interesting. I had a lot of "moments" during that time that continue to influence "this" part of me, but there's on seminal moment that was the confluence of a lot of things that seems to linger in my mind as THE moment that embossed the rest of my life. A powerful moment. It was powerful then (at about age 15, maybe 14), but I certainly had no way of knowing then how powerful. Impossible to know then that for the rest of my life this would enter my mind frequently (Daily? I've never documented.) and shape so many thoughts and decisions. It could have been just another day in the life, but it stuck. I've often wondered what my life would have been like had it not happened just the way it did.

  16. #41
    Senior Member DianeT's Avatar
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    Dear Rhonda, that is not fair. The suspense is killing me now

    EDIT
    This is a joke. Don't tell!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Star01 View Post
    I am not in a position to offer advice or point to personal experience to prove any points but am appreciative of these types of discussions and follow them with great interest hoping to learn things that apply to my situation.
    Star I am so glad to read this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Star01 View Post
    I thought secure in revisiting my dadt based on my wife's tolerant attitude but posts like this have caused me to take pause and learn more. Thank you.
    Posts like this one, or the other where you seek advice (one inch, one mile)?
    About the latter (inch/mile) I didn't contribute because I have a poor track record (lied to my wife) and that makes it hard for me to give advice on certain matters. But I have been told repeatedly by GGs in these forums that building a relationship with lies and hiding isn't good. I would add this if I may: a relationship where you can't talk to your SO about the things that matter in your life isn't good either. Which kind of relates back to the previous sentence (because of the hiding).
    I'm not in your shoes so can't advise to have the talk again with your wife. In my shoes maybe some couples' counseling would be something to consider if my wife didn't want to talk about a subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Star01 View Post
    By the way, I love fish and my wife has a shell fish allergy. I have owned boats and what we refer to as fish houses for ice fishing but that does not guarantee acceptance.
    I love something too that my wife is allergic to. We are working on it since I came out a few months back.
    Last edited by DianeT; 05-17-2020 at 11:56 AM.

  17. #42
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    Diane,
    Its' quite an interesting discussion , I'm partly inclined to agree with Tracii , you can ask this question to 100 people and get 100 different answers .

    I'm inclined to disagree with Char , to fully know and disclose everything to another person in their very early twenties isn't realistic , marriage always has it's risks and can never be called foolproof , as I found to my cost both parties can have secrets or choose to withold the truth .

    Dutchess makes a point that resonates with me , to be an occasional crossdresser is one thing but being authentic is another . For a wife/partner to live with a man who may embarrass you by being caught wearing womens clothes is very different from someone saying I wish to live the rest of my life as a woman . I never thought or expected my wife to respect me for crossdressing but I've now earned her respect for my totally honesty and conviction , OK either way she wouldn't want to live with it .
    Last edited by Teresa; 05-17-2020 at 02:24 PM.

  18. #43
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    @DianeT your uncle is definitely one after my own heart .. yes indeed ..
    and yes it is amazing how Doc comes up with a pictostory for every occasion , I dont know how he does it but I like it .



    @Teresa , what I mean in my case is not so much crossdressing , because I like non binary androgynous guys really well but I was telling someone here about a funeral of a TS friend of mine who died and at the funeral my bizarre ex husband wore a spandex jumpsuit and stilettos and I had a FIT . Well of course I was a bigot , intolerant and 50 other names he could think of to call me but it came down to the fact I was going to have to go to a very serious occasion with a guy in a spandex jumpsuit ( for female people ) that screamed SEX and extreme heels or not tell my friend goodbye at all .


    Boy was I resentful ,, AND he demanded to be taken seriously like this . NO one wore anything like that . NO one . There were people from here and people we knew from facebook also . all over the TG spectrum. He ended up being so embarrassed that he hid behind me most of the time and when I peeled myself away from him for a few minutes he would not speak to anyone and hid in a pew , in a corner , etc etc .. that kind of thing I do not like at all .
    Its that extreme over the top behavior/ drama queen stuff that embarrasses me .


    ..... and if anyone here again wants to question why I am still here and speaking about my exp its to help others avoid situations like this .
    Last edited by Dutchess; 05-17-2020 at 04:02 PM.
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    To Star01 ... You said," I mentioned my wife being very tolerant and speculated that she would be accepting and was schooled on this by the more experienced which I am thankful for as it made me take pause."
    After all that has happened in your marriage, she still loves or cares about you a great deal. Consider this approach .. One evening when you two are watching TV, bring her a glass of wine. Sit next to her and tell her that you have to talk about your DADT situation. Tell her what you essentially told us in your post. Let her ask questions and answer them truthfully. See what evolves. You may also ask her to go to counseling with you. Just saying. Good luck!

  20. #45
    Aspiring Artist Kelly DeWinter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michellebej View Post
    Apples to Seaweed....no...let me start off by explaining a bit about my background. I spend a good time of my life as an Interviewer/Interrogator. It was my job to get into peoples heads and make them confess to crimes they had committed solely through the use of psychology and speech. Think "Gibbs" of NCIS, except in my world that character is very amaturish.

    Not to disparage you or your profession, however it's also true that psychology can be and is used at time to get people to confess to crimes even if they did NOT commit them. Some people do not have the personal fortitude to stand up to hours of questioning even if they did NOT commit the crime. And as you know the improper use of interrogation is used to often in the United States. My background includes MI

    One of our truisms is that "past is prelude to the future". Meaning that for the vast majority of people behavior expressed in the past, and especially the period from birth to early 20s is "hardwired" into a person. I'll just throw out right now that some people do change, most though just control their behavior. Though they often think they have changed. A person can go for years even decades thinking they have changed till they encounter the right trigger.

    Psychologists and the Military have proven that you can rewire your brain to change your behavior to suit goals or needs. The Military does it with thousands of Recruits during Boot Camp. I cite myself as an example, To this day I make my bed Military inspection fashion every day because I learned that if you accomplish 1 thing first thing in the morning you can go on to accomplish many things.

    So secrets of past behavior are NOT ok to keep "because it is in the past". That is a logical fallacy. At best it is wishful thinking, at worst it is lying to oneself and ones SO.

    While being honest to a spouse and a SO is a very good idea and i heartily recommend it as a first recourse, there are times when self preservation overrides everything, such as a divorce, your job, the person you are dealing with. I grew up with two alcoholic parents, my ex whom I dated for 4 years and thought I knew everything about turned out to be a mean social drunk. We talked about CD/TG issues from time to time and would have had my personal,professional and family life destroyed by her out of spite. From posts withing this community, too often a relationship ends, but the spite and anger live on

    That is my professional opinion, an opinion so common in my "world" as to be an axiom.

    Interesting points thou.
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  21. #46
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    I have a number of GG friends who are tolerant of me and transgender people, generally. Only a couple of these women have also expressed their willingness to be personally involved with a TG person. That?s ok. We all have our personal preferences when it comes to close/intimate relationships, preferences that would not apply to other interpersonal relationships.
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  22. #47
    Aspiring Member Star01's Avatar
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    I don't drink so she would not want to see me with a glass of her wine. He attitude is that I am the one with problems and need the counseling. The subject of my crossdressing has not been brought up in eighteen years.

    I tried to comment on politics and even though we share the same views and voting patterns I apparently did not frame my comments correctly. She went all Sanford and Son on me and told me to shut up or she was going to have a heart attack. Seriously, she shut a calm rational comment down and it had nothing to do with my crossdressing. When I revisit the talk which the first time was basically her setting the terms with no input and ending the conversation I will need to be prepared for it to end abruptly.

    She has gotten like that in her late 60's where it's hard to have a conversation. I basically live in the lower level and don't go up there when she is in a mood. It's not so bad, the cats come down and hang with me. Isolation didn't change my life much.

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    But this isn't my thread so I will step aside and try not to hijack this one.

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The crossdressing community is one that needs to stick together and continue to be there for each other for whatever one needs.
We are always trying to improve the forum to better serve the crossdresser in all of us.

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