I got catcalled?!

[Bailey_in_Mansfield]

So my face prevents me from passing normally, as I can never fully conceal the stubble. But going out in a cloth mask has given me more leniency. I decided to go out en femme recently a few times to see how it would go. Clothes and face mask, no makeup or wig. (If some of this sounds familiar, I already recapped the first couple of these in another thread.)

A few days ago: went shopping at Target, went into women's restroom on the way out. No incident. No one saw me in there either, but I assume some saw me go in and come out.

Yesterday: went to local mall to see if its Victoria's Secret was open again to check out their new "Favorite T" bra collection. It wasn't, so headed to the mall restroom by the food court. LOTS of women saw me there, no weird looks or comments! This is a massive restroom with like 30-40 stalls and ONE sink for hand washing, so there was a line to wash hands. So they had plenty of time to look or comment. No problems!

Last night: went to QuikTrip for a late night snack, decided to see if I could manage going into the women's room there too without causing problems. Women's room is at the end of a hallway, past the men's room, with the only other door near there leading to the employees' break area. So I've already passed the men's room, nearly to the women's room, when two girls come out of the break area and see me heading to the women's room. They just smiled and said hi. So they saw me, and a police officer not far away saw me go in too. A few moments later I'm in the stall and I hear the door open... and then tapping at the stall door. O_O "Hmm?" I ask in my best feminine voice. No response. A few long seconds later, she pops open the door of a different stall and goes in. And I realized both stall doors were closed and she was just trying to see if any were unoccupied. (The scariest part of this was that she finished before me and left without washing her hands.)

TODAY! Went to Walmart for a couple of groceries. And... I got catcalled?! I think? I'm honestly not sure. Maybe he was trying to out me. I couldn't actually understand what the guy was saying, but it had a harassing tone to it so I just glanced his way and then kept walking. (This was the guy working at the door. o_O ) After this I headed to a local taco place for some nachos to go. Walked in and ordered in my feminine voice, which went without a hitch, was called ma'am repeatedly, signed my female name on the receipt, and on the way out, a guy held the door for me.

Just... wow. That actually happened!

[AllieSF]

If your avatar picture is you I can't see why you would have any problems. Is the longer hair yours, or how long is your natural hair when you went out? Your avatar is definitely attractive to the point of staring at it versus just looking at it. Good work Bailey and keep it up!

[Crissy 107]

Bailey, It sounds like you have had a few good days, I love your avatar and think you look very feminine. I would enjoy the good experiences and forget the guy at Walmart.

[FrannGurl]

Very cool Bailey! Like Allie said too, you are quite attractive and I can't see how you would have much of a problem with or without a mask!

[Bailey_in_Mansfield]

Ah, no, that's not quite my natural look! Although that IS the top I was wearing. My face & hair in that pic are courtesy of the infamous "girl filter" on Snapchat that went so viral last year. So here's how I looked when out today! (Plus a slightly-above-the-knee skirt, horizontal black & tan stripes, and tan flats.)

Oh but the cleavage? That's not the filter. That's just a good bra and some strategically placed breast forms. So that was on display today too. ^_^

[Micki_Finn]

Well, if you enjoyed it, good for you I guess. There’s a reason it’s called “catcalling”. You’re being treated like an animal. This is one of the more dehumanizing things women have to deal with on the daily.

[Bailey_in_Mansfield]

Yeah, agreed. I didn't enjoy it, but it did signal that he did think I was a woman, and apparently an attractive one. So I was taking from it the positive implication that I could. I just gave him a glance and ignored him and walked quickly ahead.

[Patience]

Well, if you enjoyed it, good for you I guess. There?s a reason it?s called ?catcalling?. You?re being treated like an animal. This is one of the more dehumanizing things women have to deal with on the daily.

Hold on.

Granted, catcalling is hardly sophisticated courtship, but in a weird sort of way, it?s a form of flattery. I mean, at some level females hope they are attractive and catcalling is a sort of unsolicited confirmation of that attractiveness. In that situation, the catcallee may even feel empowered, because it shows she can make a strong impression on someone by her presence alone. Remember, women are competitive.

I dunno if I explained that right. I may have to revisit this or amend it.

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[chelyann]

you look great , all I see is nice looking lady

[Miel GG]

Hold on.

Granted, catcalling is hardly sophisticated courtship, but in a weird sort of way, it?s a form of flattery. I mean, at some level females hope they are attractive and catcalling is a sort of unsolicited confirmation of that attractiveness. In that situation, the catcallee may even feel empowered, because it shows she can make a strong impression on someone by her presence alone. Remember, women are competitive.

I dunno if I explained that right. I may have to revisit this or amend it.

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Being catcalled is only demeaning for FAB. Only a few old women will tell you that being catcalled is a compliment, because they only measured their value in the light of men's desire. Do you really believe it is a sign of empowerment ?

As a GG I only want to dress like I choose to. Being out will not mean that I want to seduce anybody, I am just walking, doing my business, going to restaurants... But because I am a female some jerks suppose I am a prey and will harass me. Being catcalled is a form or harassment and isn't tolerable anymore.

An example is that because of the weather GGs are actually wearing little sunny dresses, showing legs and shoulders. They dress like this because it is hot. Not because they are hot. But in a weird way many men think this and choose to act like pigs.

And for the cartoon deleted by the mods... For those who haven't seen it it shows a man leaning on a palissade occupied at looking with desire at pretty women walking on the street. There is a little girl too in the picture who is looking at the way adults act. In the next boxes you see the little girl walking in the street, hoping to trigger the same 'look' from the man, and finally yelling at him because he's not. It is a very good way to illustrate the way patriarchy press-gangs girls. The little girl has well interiorized that she has to be pretty to arouse interest in men.

Many women like myself choose to not accept to be harassed anymore and respond to the stalker. I can assure you it is exhausting. I dream that one day I can only be seen like a human, in the way I suppose you treat the men you come across all day long.

Please stop valuing catcall. You can also fight these kinds of inappropriate behaviors when presenting as male or female

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Yeah, agreed. I didn't enjoy it, but it did signal that he did think I was a woman, and apparently an attractive one. So I was taking from it the positive implication that I could. I just gave him a glance and ignored him and walked quickly ahead.

Bailey, for a woman, being catcalled doesn't necessarily imply that you are attractive. You can for example be average looking but have a big breast and be catcalled. Being catcalled only implies that you are seen as a sexual object and not a person (in my example men only see breast and reduce the woman to that).

[Ericka_d]

As far as I know I never get catcalled. I never really even hear it in public any more.

I do get ma'am a lot. Which is nice. Considering I don't think I look very feminine. Especially with out makeup. The funny thing is its usually woman. That say it. Woman are very visual things. They probably see shaped brows, and long hair. At that point they are just going on Visual ques. Some even say sorry when I speak. I tell them that's its ok.

[DianeT]

Bailey, my take on this is that when somebody catcalls you he is invading your private sphere by elevating his level of familiarity with you to that of your lovers. He is actually considering you his thing, objectified as a mean to his pleasure.
I have known quite a few women, mostly born in the 40's, who took it as a compliment in their young days (60's 70's). Others did not like it. There were discussions about this that I witnessed as a young child. Women who accepted it (and some men too) tended to warn the women who did not that one day they would regret not being catcalled anymore (which if you think it through is no more than a fancy way of asking a woman to feel guilty about not wanting to be treated like a thing). Nowadays I don't think women accept it anymore and catcalls mostly seem a thing of the past.
Now back to your situation, if I try to be lenient about it, I can imagine that someone who catcalls you does it as a nice gesture, because he identified you as a crossdresser and wants to make you feel good. And then I realize that if he catcalls you it means he must find it a normal thing to do and we still have a problem.
You mentioned an uneasiness about it so clearly you noticed that problem.

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I mean, at some level females hope they are attractive and catcalling is a sort of unsolicited confirmation of that attractiveness. In that situation, the catcallee may even feel empowered, because it shows she can make a strong impression on someone by her presence alone. Remember, women are competitive.

Which is a way of asking women to focus on attractiveness, or in other words, make a main objective of their lives to be pleasing to the male eye, and be constantly scrutinized and judged by men. Things have changed since the seventies and this is not considered a life achievement anymore by today's standards.
The catcallee certainly doesn't feel empowered, being put in a dominated state (here to please men, valued through their prism).
Women aren't more competitive than men, or I missed something in how society works. And if you talk about competitiveness in relation to attractiveness like you do here, the subtitle is that to win a race to a sought-after male, woman must use beauty rather than intelligence, knowledge, humour. Also you make generalizations about a gender.

-- EDIT --
I think that if women in the streets catcalled men, males would understand better the disparaging aspect of it. The problem with what we impose on women is that it's been done for ages, and many of us have interiorized that they were normal things to do. So when faced with the problematic aspects of them (such as the catcall objectification of women), we resort to rationalizations after the fact ("it flatters them"), rather than questioning the very act in itself. Feminists call this the masculine neutral. It means that you are "neutral-ing" a bad behavior by slowly moving the normality cursor towards the masculine point of view. If you do this for long enough, people in general (women included) may end up thinking these behaviors are normal and when challenged will try to justify them (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog).

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Bailey , You surely have that natural feminine look about yourself. >Orchid ..00..

[BTWimRobin]

Hi Bailey,

Glad you had a couple of fun days out enfemme.

I don't know if I would consider a catcall a compliment. That person may have figured you out and was being rude.

[Bailey_in_Mansfield]

Hold on please, everyone. I feel like we're getting off topic.

I didn't intend for this to become a thread discussing how disgusting catcalling is. It is, and I think we all know (and hopefully agree) that it is not acceptable in our society. Can we put that matter to bed, just for this thread anyway? And discuss the things actually relating to my post? Yes, catcalling is a sh---y thing. But it also confirmed that I was passing as female, so I took the silver lining on that and moved on.

Was trying to make a "good day out" thread and I feel like I'm getting lectured instead, as if I don't know what a terrible thing catcalling is. Was just making that the title because it was so shocking to me as a CD.

Glad you had a couple of fun days out enfemme.

Thanks, Robin. ^_^

[alwayshave]

Bailey, I'm glad the mask gave you the confidence to head out. Sounds like you really enjoyed yourself.

[Krisi]

Why no wig? Longer hair is one of the most obvious signs of being female.

As for the masks, yes they do hide our identity and they hide a beard shadow, they also cover up lipstick and that's another female sign.

[Bailey_in_Mansfield]

Why no wig? Longer hair is one of the most obvious signs of being female.

As for the masks, yes they do hide our identity and they hide a beard shadow, they also cover up lipstick and that's another female sign.

I've tried a wig before and it just looked AWFUL on me. Could be because I got a cheap one. Just don't have the extra $$$ to spend on a quality wig, and get it set right. Wigs can be really helpful... or reeeeeally bad. I'm afraid mine would be the latter! lol

[abby054]

I have been catcalled when en femme. I felt like an object, not a person. It may have confirmed that I appeared to be female. Being a female object? So is a coffee cup (en Francais). Not a compliment.

[Stephanie47]

Happy you had a nice day out. I think many women can look very feminine with short hair if it is styled correctly. Without getting into whether "catcalling" is appreciated or not the only time it happened to me, it made me feel uncomfortable. I was out for an evening stroll wearing a bright red dress and heels and had on a shoulder length blond wig. A guy in a passing pickup truck honked his horn and gave me a yell. Yikes, I hoped he would not stop and try to pick me up and find out I wasn't what he thought I was.

[Di]

I have been catcalled when en femme. I felt like an object, not a person

Exactly and you are afraid from an early age to go out alone. It is terrifying and dehumanizing.

I get OP you are trying to say you felt like they saw you as a woman and that’s cool but to GGs it is harassment, objectification and degrading to us .


ADD Mod note
The OP asks for the thread to go back on track , we have told you how GGs feel about it....let’ us carry on.

Btw I like your mask.....I have some cute ones and really do up my eyes so they pop.

[FairyCrossdresser]

I feel a bit conflicted about this; I have had the experience once or twice. On the one hand I find it disrespectful and is something I frown on when in many mode?.

On the other hand, when Heather takes over, I have to go out all dolled up for the sake of my sanity, so it is taken as a sign that I at least look reasonably convincing in a skirt and heels.

[ellbee]

Always possible that by cat-calling, it could have been him acknowledging that he clocked you, too.


And yes, I was once cat-called... While in total guy-mode... By a passing car full of younger (and possibly liquored-up?) GG's.

Caught me off-guard, but didn't mind one bit.

So, it can & does go both ways.



Anyway, congrats on your recent masked adventures!

Have you considered wearing a bit of eye make-up? A more femmy mask?

Might as well pull out all the stops...

[FairyCrossdresser]

Thanks for putting that thought in my head Ellbee. My job does mean that I have to be very masculine in my work role and consequently when Heather comes to play, she is very girly, almost to the point of being ?sissy? sometimes, so I would hope not to have been made.

[suzanne]

Your actual pic, the one where you have the black mask, is very plausibly a passable woman. Your hair style is one that seems to be increasingly popular among women today. The best example I can think of is Tig Notaro. That said, I think you have every reason to feel confident going out en femme for any sort of occasion. Don't be so surprised. You've earned the right to treat your dressing as No Big Deal.