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Thread: Is the act of crossdressing loveless?

  1. #1
    The 100th sheep GaleWarning's Avatar
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    Is the act of crossdressing loveless?

    This thread is inspired by another thread asking if porn addiction is worse than crossdressing.
    The porn industry is not about love.
    Is crossdressing?
    What are your thoughts?

    Is the act of crossdressing loveless?
    In private?
    In a loving relationship?
    In a DADT relationalship?
    In a forced feminisation porn movie?
    Any other context?

  2. #2
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    Gale,

    As in most things it's likely to vary. There are many here who's SO's know and accept their CD'ing and have very close relationships.

    For others it has ended the relationship but that has then offered the CD'er greater freedom and in some cases to go on to find their new true love.

    For others like me, those in the closet, it doesn't effect the relationship which for me is about to reach 40 years of marriage.

    As far as me and CD'ing, over the years I've learned to 💘 myself for the person I am.

  3. #3
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Gale,
    If we love a person before they know about our dressing , nothing really changes in that person but for the wife/partner the whole situation is often tipped on it's head . If you consider AGP then the person may love themselves but it doesn't mean they have stopped loving another person .

    Maybe there's a slight confusion , we could be accused of being selfish through our dressing but that again doen't affect love for another . DADT possibly happens because the wife /partner is trying to shut out the dressing aspect so they can still love that person . The porn question is a wide one , again going back the the quoted thread , it depends if it's passive or active and if it's active what other genders are involved but porn has nothing to do with loving a person or not . It really depends on the wife's /partners attitude to the porn in question with their partner .
    The real me ,no going back.

  4. #4
    Aspiring Member jacques's Avatar
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    Hello Gale,
    I am not sure that I understand - there is not really a "crossdressing industry" to compare with the porn industry.
    However - there is a comparison in that a good number of us in that we do not crossdress or consume porn in public.
    Interesting to think about though - thanks for raising it!
    saty healthy,
    luv J

  5. #5
    Exploring NEPA now Cheryl T's Avatar
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    What do you mean by loveless?
    I'm happily married to a woman I deeply love and who loves me the same and she accepts all aspects of my dressing. That is most certainly not loveless.

    Certainly not everyone can say what I did and not everyone has that in their life, but then neither do those that don't dress.
    Wear what makes you feel Confident !

  6. #6
    Member Star01's Avatar
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    I love to dress in women's clothes and I love porn so I don't see a problem with either.

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    Ask if you are an addict. The definition is itself a bit murky for behavioral addictions, like gambling, but it boils down to whether a behavior damages a persons life in terms of the quality of relationships, ability to engage in other social activities, personal safety and economic well being. If consuming porn, engaging in sex, collecting Hummel figures or gambling does these things, its addiction.

    Easy come, easy go;
    Easy left me long ago...

  8. #8
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    Well that is going to depends on the individual's reasons for crossdressing.

    Is the act of crossdressing loveless? Not in itself.
    In private? No
    In a loving relationship? No
    In a DADT relationalship? Maybe
    In a forced feminisation porn movie? Yes (But we all know guys into "forced fem" don't really need to be forced )
    Any other context? Depends on the context.

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    I think your question is seriously flawed. Cross dressing is nothing more than wearing the clothes of the opposite gender. It leads to someone interpreting exactly what you're trying to ask.

  10. #10
    Weirdest woman ever! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Apples and oranges!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  11. #11
    Senior Member Robbin_Sinclair's Avatar
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    Crossdressing is fantasy so in that respect it is like porn. Probably, the more difficult question to THIS group is: What do you get from porn?

    i know what I get from dressing. I think of it as much deeper and more interesting than the total visual stimuli that porn brings. It’s all about seeing with porn. There isn’t much beyond that. But walking with the right outfit on, feeling myself breathe differently as a woman is much more complex ... for me at least.
    ❤️
    PS. I do not like to label my relationship with either porn or crossdressing as an addiction. That is a term that suggests a need to change. There is nothing in my life that suggests a need to change.

  12. #12
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    Well, if you crossdress to express yourself, self-expression is a form of self-love. But it is irrelevant in the idea of love as feelings toward other people. If you crossdress for physical pleasure, well that too is a form of “self love”, but again, doesn’t really have anything to do with the traditional “love” emotion. I don’t think it has ever been associated directly with love for anyone. About the closest I can think of is the sexual fetish stuff, but that’s physical gratification as opposed to emotional love.

    It sounds more like you’re really trying to ask if crossdressing is “selfish” maybe? Or that maybe you’re making some connection on your head, and don’t want to come right out and say what it is, so you’re trying to poll us to see if you could be right. Maybe if you could connect the dots in your head for us we can better tell you our experience?

  13. #13
    Member MonicaPVD's Avatar
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    Here's the thing: most significant others who love you will accept your crossdressing much like you might accept them if they suddenly or tragically became disabled.

    It's not t what they signed up for, not ideal, and certainly not their cup of tea, but they love you and are prepared to make sacrifices to honor that love. That's something very special and a great honor. However, don't make the mistake of thinking that they enjoy our little hobby here. If they were hypothetically given the opportunity to flick a switch and turn you back into the heterosexual square make they fell in love with originally, they would JUMP at the opportunity.

  14. #14
    I accept myself as is Gillian Gigs's Avatar
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    Is the act of crossdressing loveless? This question would have to be answered based on the individual and their original motives for dressing. Personally, I believe that we all need to have a, "love yourself" mind set. If you don't love yourself, then how can you love others! If Cd'ing started out as being sexual, then it would be more difficult to separate CD'ing from the physical sex act. If an individual started out feeling that they were not whole unless they worn something that helped them identify with what was going on within their minds, then they would more likely love themselves when dressed appropriately.

    In private? The act of privacy and why, something is done one in private is only answered by asking other questions. Is there shame, guilt, etc.

    In a loving relationship? This and the question, In a DADT relationalship, need to be answered together. To my way of thinking marriage must be based on a loving relationship! We are supposed to stay for better, or worse, well accepting someone should be based on what ever happens...for better, or worse. Would you divorce someone because they gained 100 lbs? Would you divorce someone because they went blind, deaf, lost an arm, or leg? Cd'ing might be a hard pill for some to swallow, but love is supposed to conquer all! If a woman divorces a guy only because he likes to wear dresses, then I personally say look deeper, or has the love long gone, or was never there to begin with!

    In a forced feminization porn movie? What two consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom, is their business. If it "floats their boat" who am I to say interfere. The point is are both getting mutual enjoyment out of what they are doing. If one is not, then things need to change to get it into a mutual balance of enjoyment.

    After having several years of reading different stories on this site, one of the problems I see, is that one individual wants it all their way. If not all their way, then the majority of it their way. Life is about balance, and marriage about compromise. Both parties have to move to find a middle (win-win) ground, and too many want it all their way, sorry, that is where problems start, and grow. Sex is about satisfying the needs of the other person, desires may need to get modified a bit, but both need to feel fulfilled and satisfied after it is all over. All addictions need to be dealt with, no matter what they are. Addictions destroy, and no good can come from them.
    I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!

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    I think you're overthinking.

    Not that I feel you should be discouraged...it just needs to be parceled out more equally.

  16. #16
    Member Marianne S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docrobbysherry View Post
    Apples and oranges!
    Exactly the phrase that came to my mind, Doc! I don't see any comparison between crossdressing and porn, except insofar as either one can, for some people, come into conflict with the needs of a partner and jeopardize a "love relationship."

    The point is that as a means of gratification, porn is a substitute for sexual relations that would normally take place within the context of a "love relationship." In this sense porn can be called "loveless." But crossdressing is nothing of the kind. Crossdressing is an expression of the Self, in the same way that speech or art or many other things are expressions of the Self. Could talking or painting be called "loveless"? I don't see it.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Pumped's Avatar
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    Like anything else, it depends! Plenty of CD'ers have ended their marriage over crossdressing. My wife and I spend one evening together, dressed up in one form or another, might be fetish wear, evening gowns, sexy dresses, or maybe just lingerie and nothing else. We sit and visit, do our nails and watch a movie. Sometimes we never get to the movie and we get undressed sooner than planned! ;-)

  18. #18
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docrobbysherry View Post
    Apples and oranges!
    Amen!

    Why do some people continue to equate TG tendencies to things like drugs, alcohol and porn? I can, almost, understand it from the masses, but people here are supposed to be a bit more enlightened.
    "Being honest may not get you a lot of friends, but it will always get you the right ones."
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    Hi Gale , Answer C All the above
    Having my ears triple pierced is AWESOME, ~~......

    I can explain it to you, But I can't comprehend it for you !

    If at first you don't succeed, Then Skydiving isn't for you.

    Be careful what you wish for, Once you ring a bell , you just can't Un-Ring it !! !!

  20. #20
    Member Yinlingyen's Avatar
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    For me CDing is not about finding love or that I am desperate to find love.
    For me CDing is finding myself.
    I envy how women can get all the choice in life in terms of dressing.
    Why do men on a scorching hot night have to wear a shirt and jacket and stuffy leather shoes to be considered
    appropriate to be admitted to upscale restaurants while women can wear much cooler clothes like strapless dresses, tiny tops, thin fabric flimsy dresses all paired up with cool refreshing sandals.
    I want to have as much choice in dressing and feeling good.
    When fully dresses I have all the option I chose for a night out or day time as a matter of fact.
    Sorry for the rant.

  21. #21
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    Crossdressing is a big turn off to most GGs so... if you are straight, it certainly can be "loveless"

  22. #22
    The 100th sheep GaleWarning's Avatar
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    When I printed all the responses, it came to five pages. Perhaps I should have started with a different title ? What does love have to do with crossdressing? Perhaps I should not have mentioned the impetus behind the post ? I did not intend only a link with/comparison with the porn industry. I intended the post to evoke deeply philosophical responses ? perhaps a couple of 3,000 word- essays on the topic. Clearly, I did not express myself well. Thank you for all your responses.

    Where to start? I gave four contexts in which crossdressing usually occurs and invited the addition of others. I have attempted to summarise the responses received so far. My apologies if anyone feels that I have either ignored or misinterpreted what they had to say.
    Crack on!!!

    In private
    Many seem to see this as an expression of self-love. In a DADT relationship the cd-er and their SO do their own thing and do not even talk about it. One put it this way, ?I love to dress in womens clothes?. In a loveless way, cd-ing in private is seen simply as a form of self-expression. Fetishism is seen as physical gratification, rather than emotional love. One respondent pointed out that love for others begins with love for oneself. They also asked if shame or guilt were involved. Good question! Someone pointed out that porn may be viewed as a substitute for sexual relations (in a relationship) but claimed that cd-ing cannot be viewed in the same way. That is debatable! They argued that crossdressing is a form of self-expression, an art form, and hence certainly not loveless. Is pornography not an art-form? Yet that is loveless. Another good question ? is cd-ing in private an addiction? Vehement opposition to this attitude! Female envy was cited by one as the reason they crossdress. A desire for wider choice in ones options for clothing (for me, its also about freedom to dress as one wants to without fear of judgment ? but this is not in private). Also, a big turn-off for GGs and the reason why so many marriages break up. SOs who know and do not accept can be very toxic!

    In a loving relationship
    SOs who know and accept form the basis of a very close and loving relationship. It is important to share this information with ones SO before the start of a relationship, in order that it starts well and continues in the same way. Another opined that most SOs who love you will accept your crossdressing much as you would if they suddenly became disabled. Another debatable point. Spoke of the need to make sacrifices in order to honour that love. Acknowledged that most SOs who do this would really prefer us NOT to be crossdressers. A thoughtful post dwelt on whether or not an unaccepting SO really loved us in the first place.
    One beautiful post spoke of the happy couple spending the odd evening together, dressed up in one form or another, but not for the whole evening 😉 Wouldn?t that be luverly!

    DADT
    Thoughtful response ? this possibly happens because the SO is trying to shut out the dressing aspect so they can continue to love the other person. Another suggested that an attitude of DADT might be an SOs way of staying true to their marriage vows. Silence is golden? Problems arise when one individual wants it all their own way, or at least, the majority of it. Balance and compromise. In all aspects of a loving relationship.

    Forced Feminisation movies
    One pointed out that most crossdressers don?t need to be forced to wear womens clothes. Has anyone ever seen a forced feminisation video in which the person being forced looked unhappy or was clearly being forced to do something they were not keen to do, or were being physically and mentally abused? Serious question. One contributor claimed that there is not really a ?crossdressing industry? to compare with the porn industry. What two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms, is their business. As long as both are getting mutual enjoyment out of the activity, nothing needs to change.

    Crossdressing vs pornography
    Many people only cross-dress or watch porn in private. I am one. Neither the act of dressing in womens clothes nor watching porn is a problem, if one loves to do both (presumably in private). Others saw no connection (apples and oranges). One saw an aspect of fantasy in both. Another acknowledged that both can have a destructive influence on a love relationship. One related that they get a lot more out of crossdressing than they do from porn. Porn is visual in the main ? walking in womens clothing involves so many more stimuli, is much more complex. To what extent does/should one feel shame or guilt from either crossdressing in private or watching porn?
    My experience of cross-dressing, at least to begin with, was that I used it as a substitute for sexual relations, which my ex-wife withheld from me, because our sex drives were so different. Nowadays, as a single person, I use porn for the same purpose.
    The porn question is a wide one and it depends on if it?s passive or active and if it?s active what other genders are involved but porn has nothing to do with loving a person or not. It really depends on the SOs attitude to the porn in question with their partner.

    Addiction
    ?Why do some people continue to equate TG tendencies to things like drugs, alcohol and porn? ? people here are supposed to be a bit more enlightened.? (Guilt? Shame? Personal experience?)
    ?Addictions destroy, and no good can come out of them.? (I am reminded of a piece of dialogue from the play ?Hair?. Mum says to her children, ?Kids, be free! Say whatever you want, do whatever you want, be whatever you want, as long as you don?t hurt anyone.?)

    Other comments
    For others, (crossdressing has ended the relationship but that has then offered the cd-er greater freedom and in some cases to go on and find their own true love.
    Crossdressing is nothing more than wearing the clothes of the opposite gender. It leads to someone interpreting exactly what you are trying to ask. Your question is seriously flawed!

    [SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

    I edited my last post, without realising that it would not be recognized as a new post. Sorry. Please read my post above - its long!
    Last edited by GaleWarning; 08-03-2020 at 09:15 PM. Reason: Added summary

  23. #23
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    In and of itself, the act of crossdressing is not loveless any more than the act of driving a red Ferrari is loveless. The motivations, fantasies and general mindset would be what would determine the love or lack thereof within the act. A person who chooses to drive a red Ferrari could be an arrogant, selfish jerk, but the act of driving the car doesn't make him/her so.

    IN PRIVATE? - acting in private could be an underhanded deception or a considerate gesture of deference to another's opinion/outlook. It could also be the place where we examine our own character, preferences and tastes before exposing ourselves to an SO or others.

    LOVING RELATIONSHIP? - self descriptive

    DADT? - if forced, the question is "whose love is lacking?" if mutual, could be loving, unloving or neutral

    FORCED FEMINISATION? - pure fantasy - could very well be a rabbit hole that could lead to a less healthy, less loving relationship

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