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Thread: "Public Relations," We'll Call It

  1. #26
    Super Moderator char GG's Avatar
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    Moderator note:

    Let's keep this thread on track. Stick to the OP's comments or the thread will have to be closed or posts may be deleted.
    Last edited by char GG; 08-13-2020 at 08:12 AM.

  2. #27
    Gracious Colleague looking_good's Avatar
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    Blackbird - thanks for opening up on a really good question...and there is a lot of wisdom in the answers given. My take is a little different and reflects a bit about where I am on my journey. Have you thought much about why you want to go out? Is it because you are somewhere on the spectrum of 'this is who I am and I want go forward this way' or is it something else? I'm in the 'something else' category. I'd find myself getting dressed and then having a 'well, now what do I do?" moment. I've found that doing some writing, or driving-while-dressed with some discrete, short strolls have worked wonders. I had a fixation on going grocery shopping while dressed for the longest time, but it was all the worry and none of the benefits for me. So I eventually let it go. Yay me!

    I know this is a lot of 'me' stuff, but my thought is if one clearly understands their own 'why' behind going out, the path forward may bit a bit clearer. Hope this is helpful to you in some way.

    Cheers!
    Simply an avid clothing enthusiast...

  3. #28
    Senior Member phili's Avatar
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    Hi Val,
    The coin of gender has two faces - internal and external, and in this metaphor, sometimes the two faces face each other. What I mean is that we have a sense of our own gender, and we feel right looking in the mirror. But the look we are expressing is one that we have seen others express in public, and we liked it and identified with it.

    The problem, of course, is that for male crossdressers the external expressions of gender we have seen and admired are part of our society's 'acceptable' public expression range for females. The underlying social construct is that feminine clothing expression is allowed for females and not for males. Social norms like this with regard to gender expression are heavily enforced in people's lives, so those of us who want to break or stretch these norm encounter resistance and pay penalties where people can impose them on us.

    Except for those who succeed at passing, our collective problem as CDs is that we will experience minority stress over this, generally, And we will have to manage in the face of penalties. And this in addition to any other individualized minority stresses we feel from being perceived as different from 'the norm' in other ways.

    Your OP says that not caring what others think is not an option. I think when some of us say we don't care we mean that we have understood that the ways others deal with their discomfort around us has turned out not to matter in a practical way most of the time. It is not much fun to be out trying to enjoy a summer day at the cafe if the person at the next table is expressing their discomfort. But then the server comes over and is friendly, and we realize we can forget about the person who is unhappy.

    It is crucially important not to feel like prey, or behave like prey, as that excites predators. But in public settings, if we don't pick fights, and are just as normal as anyone can be in terms of courtesy and not making an issue of our gender expression, even in small towns people realize we are just one more specimen of humanity.

    There isn't anyone in America who didn't hear about Caitlin Jenner or Jazz Jennings, or David Bowie, or some of the various celebrities who are remarking on gender freedom, so we are recognized instantly by everyone as one of the gender variants. I have come to feel that the only people who are unpleasant to me are the ones who feel entitled to pronounce judgment publicly, or throw their weight around when they can. But the average citizen doesn't support that, and they soon realize they are making a spectacle of themselves for their rudeness or intolerance. I am kind to anyone who is scared of me, or teens who laugh, or frowning sales people- but I rarely have to.

    Minority stress is going to be there. I accept it as a minor tax on the wonderful joy of finally being out and expressing myself - which is truly a deep release and very beneficial.
    Last edited by phili; 08-13-2020 at 11:43 AM.
    We are all beautiful...!

  4. #29
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    A couple verses in "Turn The Page" come to mind....

    Well you walk into a restaurant
    Strung out from the road
    And you feel the eyes upon you
    As you're shakin' off the cold
    You pretend it doesn't bother you
    But you just want to explode

    Most times you can't hear 'em talk
    Other times you can
    All the same old cliche's
    "Is that a woman or a man?"
    You always seem outnumbered
    You don't dare make a stand...

    Who would have thought that song was really about being trans?
    Last edited by Robertacd; 08-14-2020 at 08:32 AM.

  5. #30
    Senior Member Jean 103's Avatar
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    I deal with it in different ways. Sometimes it helps to talk about it before locking it away.

    For the most part I don't have any problems. That includes Vegas, I have been twice and will be there for Halloween this year.

    People stare at me all the time, I'm use to it. It is what I expect, I don't dress to hide. I dress to express myself, this is me. I do look for approval of my friends (GGs).

    There is a support group there in Vegas, They seemed like a very good group, welcoming. They maintain a drop in center. They are probably closed now, but when this clears you should check them out if you haven't already.

  6. #31
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val_Blackbird View Post
    If you're among those who regularly go out in public, how do you deal with the inevitable stares, glares, chuckles, etc.?
    First of all, the glaring and gaping are not that frequent. OK, those parts of Las Vegas where the tourist traffic is heavy may be an exception, but most people, by far, will treat you as your presentation and behavior dictate. No, really...

    Somewhere on this forum is a thread about the time a friend and I stopped at a barbecue joint in Mason, TX. Mason is as stereotypical, red-state-small-town as you can get. Long story short, it was a non-event (other than some pretty respectable brisket). No, I did not "pass". I was one of two not AFAB women in an establishment full of rednecks. I did not have to pass because most people are bound by the social contract that commands civility. Yes, even deep in the heart of Texas.

    Yes, there have been other times where an individual abandoned standard decorum and outright stared/glared. I love those moments, for a couple of reasons. One, there's that slightly twisted part of me that delights in making assholes feel uncomfortable, so I'll make eye-contact and give them my biggest, sweetest, Aunt Kelly smile. The reactions are priceless. Two, it's an opportunity to normalize us in the eyes of those who are still ignorant and fearful. Almost every time, that smile has caused them to break eye contact, and look down. You can almost see the wheels turning as they realize that they have been hating on someone that nobody else in the place has a problem with. That's a win, albeit a small one.

    That's how we make change happen; by being out there and making that "normal" for those who don't yet understand that it is.
    Last edited by Aunt Kelly; 08-14-2020 at 10:11 AM.
    Calling bigotry an "opinion" is like calling arsenic a "flavor".

  7. #32
    Aspiring Member Star01's Avatar
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    Whenever this topic comes up for discussion it becomes obvious after reading a handful of replies that going out in public dressed as a woman is a lot like real estate. Location, location, location. If I lived in LA or New York things might be a lot different than living in a small town. I think location and personal circumstances set the stage for being seen in public. By that I mean that someone in say LA is going to have much easier time of it than us small town folks. In my case my forays out in public have been briefly standing on my deck after dark or taking a short drive down the highway past corn fields. It's a night and day difference compared to what some experience.

  8. #33
    Senior Member Maid_Marion's Avatar
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    I'm lucky to live in a very liberal area. If anything I get more respect presenting as female than male. Both when shopping and when I could do that, eating out.

    I am good with young kids, so they aren't an issue when I'm shopping at Target. I realize that is a huge confidence test for some.

    Marion
    Last edited by Maid_Marion; 08-13-2020 at 11:50 AM.

  9. #34
    Senior Member michelleddg's Avatar
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    Hi Val, welcome, and thanks for so openly sharing your thoughts. I've been making annual one week girlcations to Las Vegas for many years, So, happy to share some thoughts. Yes, for sure, things are quite conservative off The Strip. However, I've done all sorts of things off The Strip - shopping, nails, hair, makeup, dining - and never been called out. On The Strip I budget for about one call out per week. Typical are the kiosk guys at The Fashion Mall who are both bored out of their minds and have trained eyes.

    With experience comes confidence, and with confidence the shackles come off. So, hang in there, baby steps. What I will tell you is this - I'm six feet so I know I draw attention. Six feet girls draw attention. If I were five feet like you I'd own the place. It's your secret sauce, girlfriend, your super power. Yes, lots of girls are five feet but very few boys.

    Lastly, if you'd like some expert feedback on your presentation check in with Amy Lamb and/or Stephanie Danderson, they are both great local friends of the community, tell 'em your close personal friend Michelle sent you. And, if you'd like contact info for some of the world's greatest makeup artistes send me an IM. So good to know your ultimate beauty potential, pick up invaluable tips and tricks, and expand your friend base. Good luck, have fun! Hugs, Michelle

  10. #35
    Platinum Member Angie G's Avatar
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    Val there are no stupid questions. Don't feel stupid. If that's the way you are it's hot a bad it's what makes you uniquely you never apologize for that. Nothing we can tell you will change that. Just keep on being your beautiful self.
    Angie

  11. #36
    Junior Member Val_Blackbird's Avatar
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    Thanks, again.

  12. #37
    Senior Member Asew's Avatar
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    When I read the title I thought about how us being out is like public relations for the all the CDers / TG / etc. I feel when I go out I could be positively impacting someone, either making them more accepting or being a role model with someone who is still early in their path. So overall I think just by doing your best when dressed and ignoring the haters, we can be a positive light on our community for society. It sucks to experience the dislike or even hate, but hopefully we can make more progress overall.

  13. #38
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    The safety issue you bring up is very real and too often dismissed by members here. Trans women are being murdered across the country. That’s the bad news. The GOOD news is that they aren’t being snatched off the street in broad daylight or shot dead in public. If you stick to well lit public areas with people around, you’ll generally be safe from physical harm.

  14. #39
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Val, I believe u r mistaken about photos. After u have 10 posts, which u do, u can add a relevant photo to this, or most any thread.

    That means u can post your photos in the "Photo Section" here, too!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  15. #40
    Gold Member Sometimes Steffi's Avatar
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    Most times I go out dressed, I'm with a fairly large group of CD/TG girls. Very few people mess with us. There's strength in numbers. I also know that a lot of the girls in the group are military, ex-military, or law enforcement. I expect some of them are quite capable of handling any male threat that might appear. And I know that they would have my back if I got into trouble.

    There were a couple of times that I went with a group of CD/TG girls when "male admirers" were invited. I'm married and attracted to women anyhow, so my plan was to just hang with the girls. No "admirer" hit on me. Maybe it was just that I wasn't "pretty enough" for them, but I would like to believe it was my icy stare. There was one SO of a CD/TG who was quite attractive, and was really creeped out by all the attention she was getting. I stayed with her at the bar and protected her from any admirers who might have thought that she was a very passable CD.

    My best defense is to confidently look them right in the eyes with a huge smile, including a smile with the eyes also. It's intended to, "OK, you made me. So what." The message I try to get across is, "I'm happy with how I look, and I look like me." I want them to see that I'm not at all embarrassed with dressing up like a girl. I'm not afraid of you. Go find someone else to harass." And if thing get bad, remember that the bouncer is your friend.

    My daughter is not afraid of bring the fight to them. She told me recently about an encounter that she had at a bar with a guy. She was dancing and the guy was "dirty dancing" behind her. She managed to create a little separation and gave him a hard back kick in the groin (if you catch my drift). Properly placed and plenty hard enough to send him to the floor rolling around it pain. My daughter went back to her group and they made a protective ring around her. The guy eventually left on his own.

    Later she told the bouncer what happened. He said, "Where is he?" She told him, "Don't worry. I took care of it myself, but I'll let you know if he comes back."

    Now, on the other hand, I can't tell you how many great and wonderful experiences I've had with GGs, individually and collectively. Sometimes they're just curious, and other times they're jealous because we all appear to be having such a good time. There were even a few occasions where a group of teenage GGs joined up with us, either for talking, photos or Karaoke.
    Hi, I'm Steffi and I'm a crossdresser... And I accept and celebrate both sides of me. Or, maybe I'm gender fluid.

  16. #41
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    Val, sadly there's no easy answer to this. You either go out full of confidence, taking the due amount of care, and enjoy being out, owning the space, or you don't. There's no fault either way and I've been on both sides. I've been there, full of dread, fearing the consequences of people in the real world "seeing", "knowing" and worse. But, no, it doesn't (for me in the UK), happen like that. People don't care, they're not bothered, they're too wrapped up in the next thing that they're doing to pay any attention to those around them. Also, if you hear people laugh, if you hear people make comments, if you think that people stare, they maybe, just maybe they're not laughing at you, maybe they're not staring at you, maybe they're not commenting on you. It's a big one to get over, but when we're out, it's not all about us.

    Try this for instance - go out, not dressed but in drab mode, just go for a drive, go for a ride on a bus, go to a mall, go walkabout, just be outside, doing normal things in a normal way, and when you get back try and remember how many people you saw, it'll be very few if any that you remember. OK, those that you interact with directly, you stand a good chance of remembering, but then try as think what did they look like exactly. Chances are you won't remember them too clearly. As for people that you pass in the street, they'll all just be gone from your memory. Also, when you're out take note of how people act, how they laugh, how they chat, how they look at stare, and grow to realise that a lot of what you think is happening happens anyway. No, it's not easy, there is no easy way around this as it cuts to your most deep seated fears and sense of security and personal safety. But it is doable and I wish you well should you try to get over it. Remember too, with this, there is no right and there is no wrong, we can only do what is correct for us as individuals. Also, as I say I'm in the UK which might just be different to where you are. Stay safe and all the best.

  17. #42
    Exploring NEPA now Cheryl T's Avatar
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    The first time I stepped into the light and went out in public I was not nervous, I was PETRIFIED!!
    I went shopping with my wife to a mall in another state to minimize the chance that someone we knew would be there and recognize her or I. I spent so much time getting ready and dressed "average" so as to blend in.

    When we arrived we had to take the elevator from the parking deck. There was an older couple in the elevator and when we exited my wife asked if I saw how they looked at me. I stared straight ahead and didn't even see it. Then we walked about for some time and finally sat for a moment. As everyone passed by I would watch them from the corner of my eye to see who stared, laughed, pointed and such. No one did. They were all so involved in their own life they practically ignored me. As we walked more I saw the same result. Yes, there were a few stares (I'm 6' tall) and a few giggles, but for the most part No Reaction.
    Then we went into a Dress Barn. My wife went to try on something and I "hid" behind the jewelry display. Didn't work. The sales associate came over to me and said "would you like to try something on? Is there something your interested in? Can I help you find something?". I just wanted to hide. Then she brings out a chair and places it right by the entrance to the dressing rooms and says I can sit there if I like. She was so nice, but to me was doing everything that would expose me. Actually she was doing everything I wished she would do and that I wanted to do but was afraid to do.
    Well, about a year after that we joined a Tir-Ess group. After the first meeting one of the girls said, "ok, who's going to the diner?" I said what the heck. The people there saw us as customers. The owner and staff treated us like royalty. It was wonderful!
    After that one of the girls would join my wife and I and we would go to a different mall every few weeks shopping.
    Now years later I go anywhere anytime, alone or with others. Yes, I'm sure I get a stare or a giggle yet. People always stare if you are too tall, too short, too skinny, too fat, too Something. It's human nature.
    My tip ... OWN IT!.
    When you go somewhere be confident. Carry yourself with pride. Not show off pride, but pride that I belong here as much as anyone. Go about your business and disregard them. Don't watch them watching you. Let them be the lesser persons. Just be yourself and hold your head up.

    As to the danger, yes there is always a level of danger. Perhaps more so because of homophobia, but you can lessen that by being aware of your surroundings. Take the same precautions any woman would. Avoid, dark secluded areas. Go with someone else there is safety in numbers. Just don't put yourself in a position to be in danger. If the area is not the best then perhaps carry pepper spray.

    If I haven't frightened you away then hold your pretty chin high, walk proudly and remember that you have every right to be there just as much as anyone else.
    I don't wear women's clothes, I wear MY clothes !

  18. #43
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val_Blackbird View Post
    I don't feel like I have a very fem face, especially my monstrous nose. (I know it's a good pic, but you don't see all the bad ones it takes to get the good one.) I can maybe pass at about 20 - 30 feet, but not close up. No way. .
    Val,

    Reading the comment about your nose suggests to me that you're already, even in drab, self conscious about your appearance and hence it's not unsurprising for this to be heightened when going out


    Quote Originally Posted by Val_Blackbird View Post
    I'm not 100% sure how to address the passing issue. I feel like my one real advantage in that regard is that I'm about 5 feet tall flat on my feet. So, even in my highest heels, I'm shorter than a lot, if not most, women, lol. But, that said, I'm also about 20 pounds heavy, and I have oddly large biceps for someone who doesn't work out and never has.
    Again, there's this focus on what you see as negatives which ties in with my comment above. large arms? There's lots of GG's who shall we say, over indulge a little and carry a few pounds so you're not that unusual.

    As males we nearly all have features that signal that fact. The trick is to hide them as best as you can. As for passing, very few of us do certainly close up. The trick is to be able to look convincing enough to hide in plain sight in a crowd. If you say what you wear might be better suited for someone younger then change what you wear to reflect the age group you're in.

    When I first started going out one of the first things I realised was that most folks are so busy with their own lives 90% don't even look at others and the more I looked like the other women of my age the less was looked at.

    I would advise posting in the pics section you wearing what you would normally wear if going out. Wig, forms, makeup, the whole package, ask for constructive criticism and await the comments. You may be somewhat surprised by the relies.
    Who dares wears Get in, get out without being noticed

  19. #44
    Another fine dress AngelaYVR's Avatar
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    Val, you have a whole team of cheerleaders rooting for you! Hopefully you take everyone up on their offers, this is what this site is for!

  20. #45
    Member MaryAnn1963's Avatar
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    Val, I know where you are coming from. I used to be VERY self conscious about my self in male mode so forget about how I felt as Mary Ann! I won't sugar coat this (because I'm not Willy Wonka) but there are no easy answers to this. CDs are a very small minority which makes us "not normal" by most other people's standards. People react differently to things that are not normal. Some fear it, some shy away from it, some lash out as a defense mechanism to it, some embrace it. There is good and bad news about that... 1st the bad; you are NOT going to change how people react to you being dressed as a women. 2nd the good; you have the ability to change how you respond to their reaction. If it pleases you to go out in public dressed as a woman, then you will have to master how you respond to the looks etc. Remember, you are not out there to please them, only yourself.
    It does take some time to be comfortable dressed in public. Think of it like learning to ride a bike.. start on a tricycle... go out in women's jeans. No big deal, 99.9% will not notice, but you know. Then you get your two wheeler with training wheels... Jeans and heels (go with a wedge, they don't make as much noise).. a little bit more of a big deal. Someone might notice, probably a GG who is admiring your shoes! Next take the training wheels off. Jeans, heels (not too big), clear polish on your nails and maybe some mascara. Still most (96%) won't know, but you will! See, you are getting comfortable doing what was very uncomfortable. You are expanding your comfort zone and you will begin to care less about what others think (it really doesn't matter any way) and feel better about you. Now lets take one hand off of the handlebars... You are gaining confidence. Same stuff as before but add makeup (not to bright), a wig and nail polish. Go some where with out too many people to get comfortable with yourself first. Then start venturing in to places with more and more people. As you get comfortable with your self you will act with more confidence and stand out less. Ok, it's time to ride that bike with no hands... A dress/skirt, pantyhose, heels that make noise, wig, makeup, nails, purse... the whole enchilada. Go somewhere to get comfortable with yourself first, then once you have accomplished that, you are ready for the real world now girl. (BTW... a vast majority of the people are so wrapped up in what they are doing that you are practically invisible)
    Honey, you don't cook a bullfrog by throwing it into a pot of boiling water, you put it in a pot of cool water and turn up the heat little by little. Before you know it, he's cooked.
    That's just my 2 cents... ok, probably 50 cents, but keep the change.
    The Pink Fog is thick with this one....

  21. #46
    A girl in the north east Jennylace's Avatar
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    you are very correct because with time it becomes more of she then he in the main role for me it's been years since I have worn anything slightly male and now I have no clue what a male is supposed to act like. having a wife that has promoted me being who I am is the greatest treasure one could ever cherish.

  22. #47
    Member rian's Avatar
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    Regretfully , I m one of the people that is scared to confront the public due to the reasons you mentioned ,,,too scary to be bombarded with stares , glares ,,,,it is so shameful to my heart to except ....I will stay in a closed spaces for safety ....
    Cross-dressing is a cross between woman's soul and man's heart.....

  23. #48
    Stand-up Comedian En Fem❤ Alice_2014_B's Avatar
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    It is easy to say, "just ignore them."
    I started, like many, with small steps.
    Next thing I know I'm doing stand-up fully dressed up in heels.
    Safety is of course number 1, you're correct.

    Feel free to PM me with questions.

    Melissa: "... and why are you dressed as a woman?"
    Coach McGuirk: "Because it's freeing."

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    Shoe size: 9 US women's.
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    Height: 5' 6".

  24. #49
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    Who are the unfortunate transwomen being murdered? They have common denominators. Young, poor, mostly urban, often women of color, often involved in the sex trade in order to survive, living on the fringes of society. It's heartbreaking and wrong. However, no one is killing middle aged crossdressers or transwomen with stable households and jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micki_Finn View Post
    The safety issue you bring up is very real and too often dismissed by members here. Trans women are being murdered across the country. That’s the bad news. The GOOD news is that they aren’t being snatched off the street in broad daylight or shot dead in public. If you stick to well lit public areas with people around, you’ll generally be safe from physical harm.

  25. #50
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    Attitude is everything! You must believe in yourself if you want to go out to the world. Others can sense your insecurity and that gives them the opening to demean you.
    If you accept their judgements, then that is on you. I prefer to consider that their reaction to me reflects their insecurities and that allows me to stare them down.
    To restate what Char has said, you can only control your actions.
    As for safety, I stop being a lady once there is a physical threat.
    Warmly,
    Sheren Kelly

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