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Thread: "Public Relations," We'll Call It

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    Junior Member Val_Blackbird's Avatar
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    Question "Public Relations," We'll Call It

    I'm sure this has been brought up many times before, so please feel free to delete if there is any violation here.

    If you're among those who regularly go out in public, how do you deal with the inevitable stares, glares, chuckles, etc.? I know many people say to just ignore it, but for some of us, this is not so easy. The answer to "who cares?" is: I do. And, it's not quite as simple as just stop caring. Apologies for that.

    I'm just curious how some of us put up with this and manage to push through, because I have certainly tried . . . and failed. That said, I embarrass easily, regardless, so perhaps that's a factor. But, even still, this scenario cuts much, much deeper than my normal level of embarrassment. I don't know if that is normal or not.

    So, that's it. And, again, apologies if this is stupid.

    I'll just briefly mention that there is also some level of danger that I feel should be at least acknowledged, if not delved into. That's all I'll say about that.

    Thank you, and have a wonderful day.

    - Blackbird

  2. #2
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    Val,

    I am one of those that decided that I wanted to go out and just did. At first to trans/LGBTQ+ locales, San Francisco is basically that all over the place. So, I had read about it here and went out and only had 2 really negative situations over 13 years going out there. Both were minor. Yes, I am lucky to have found my new self and life and also be is a mental condition, many, many years of training all that, and live in the San Francisco Bay area. However, I really do understand others problems with getting out the door and just enjoying themselves for so many valid reasons.

    How to get over it? Well, from my experience with a lot of things, including the need to occasionally speak in public to a defined topic, being coached in how to get the message across, I hated those moments. What I did learn from that and have applied to many aspects of my life is that if fear is holding me back from doing what I want to do and what I am told to do, public speaking, the more I do it the better I get and the fears get smaller and smaller. As a transgender woman, there are so many reasons to be hesitant and even afraid to step out that door, including a bit of rare danger. My consistent recommendation is to find that kindred soulmate/sidekick/friend with whom to venture out to safe places. I found my first friends here back in 2007, one of whom is still a very good friend. Eventually I found more, again rom this site to join up with. Some of these big/little steps can really help out. Many start by going to TG?CD meetups. The ones I went to were safe places and mostly social orientated. These are also great places to network and meet new people who my end up being your great friend or at least good sidekick.

    So, simply stated, the more you stretch your fears the smaller they can become. A partner in crime, so to speak, is a great way to make all that happen. Good luck,

    Allie

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    Honestly I don't get any of that, or at least I am oblivious to it. I am sure it's because I basically live in a small town progressive bubble, but I haven't even been misgendered in public in over a year.

    But in general I quit caring about what other people think some time in my 30's. I just decided I am too old to let worrying about what other people think hold me back.

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    Princess Candice candykowal's Avatar
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    Gosh living in a "diverse" metropolitan area such as Las Vegas, it is kind of hard to imagine not fitting in and being stared at or berated.
    Maybe get away from those family oriented gambling joints, on the strip, and head off to where the locals roam?
    The strip sure attracts everyone from all over the country who have never seen a LGBTQ person.
    A lot of folks live in small town America where everyone know their towns business so they are used to conforming to social standards.
    My friend Carla, here on the forum...should chime in as she is a local of Vegas and does shop in the area, out in public.

    I think it also has to do with your perceptions, maybe toning down your presentation or work harder to be more presentable...maybe all of those???
    Mingling with like minded friends also is a great tool as they have a different perception of your presentation.
    We are all our worst critics....you will never be totally satisfied with your looks and that can cause some hyper sensitivity.
    I for one, hang out with a lot of like minded friends and do my best to match their mannerisms and appearance so even if I catch someone outing me, I still know I did my best to present in a respectful manner and there is nothing I should be ashamed of!
    Besides, they dont know me, they are not in my social circle, and they have their own issues....

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    Junior Member Val_Blackbird's Avatar
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    It's a little surprising how conservative this town really is, at least by my observation. Lots of desert rednecks out here.
    Last edited by Val_Blackbird; 08-12-2020 at 02:35 PM. Reason: Bad smiley.

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    I have been told by many Vegas locals, once you get off the strip, Vegas is a small town.

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    Another fine dress AngelaYVR's Avatar
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    This is a great question. Let me first get this out of the way: we’re going to assume that your presentation is good and your clothing choices are not overly flamboyant. This is not a comment on how well you pass.

    Ok, from this point there are a few things to keep in mind. I’ll bullet point them to keep it succinct.
    - people often react if this is the first time they have seen someone like you and it can be a bit unpredictable for many.
    - people can react because they feel threatened. Do you make a gorgeous woman? That can rile some people up.
    - people with low self esteem often try to take others down a peg. I feel sorry for these people.
    - groups of people are usually worse, the tribalism kicks in.
    - you may hit a nerve with someone. I like to say that the louder someone laughs, the more likely it is that person has something to hide.
    - finally, no matter what, some people are just flat out jerks.

    Luckily for us, most people do not say anything. Whatever they think, good or bad, stays in their heads. As for the others, I just don’t care! I like who I am, I carry myself with pride and know my self worth. The few negative reactions I get just plink off my back because I simply am not fazed by the opinions of people who are rude. I pity them back. I wonder how sad their lives are. And then I carry on! The compliments I receive obliterate the snark. Love yourself, Val, and all the hate becomes impotent.
    Last edited by AngelaYVR; 08-12-2020 at 02:44 PM.

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    Super Moderator char GG's Avatar
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    Hi Val,
    Others have given good advice. I would like to chime in: "consider the source". Are the rude ones coming from drinking establishments, casinos, or tourists looking for something they don't see at home? Do they have nothing better to do?

    You really can't control other people. You can only control your reaction to them. You have the same right that they do to occupy this place on earth so try not to worry about those that have nothing better to do then remark on others. Easier said than done sometimes.

    Just a personal side note: I have a handicapped son who often gets teased about his manner of speech. It took him a long time to learn the same thing that people here are telling you. Basically, the rude people are the ones with the problem. Sometimes you just have to roll with it.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by char GG; 08-12-2020 at 03:03 PM.

  9. #9
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    People say “just ignore it” because you have two options: you can ignore it or you can make a scene. If you’re embarrassed about getting clocked, making a scene and letting EVERYONE know you’re a man in a dress isn’t really an option at all. So that just leaves ignoring it.

    You have to realize that no matter what you do, where you go, or how you’re dressed, there is always someone out there who will look at or react to you negatively wether it’s your appearance, weight, race, clothes, manner of speaking, general attitude, whatever. It doesn’t matter who you are, everyone is the villain in someone else’s story. Period. You can either get worked up because someone you don’t know and don’t CARE to know thinks negatively about you, or you can just live your life and accept the fact that there will always be someone who thinks you’re dirt.

  10. #10
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    Honestly, I seldom experience stares and fewer chuckles. Of course, I do not go out of my way to look and being slightly oblivious and a bit deaf doesn’t hurt either.

    When I have been out and elicited a less than positive response, I shrugged it off and went about my business.
    Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.

    Eleanor Roosevelt

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    I go out a lot (though not as much as I used to). I don't pass. No chuckles, no stares. It just doesn't happen. The only exception was when I went to a tourist attraction with a lot of Americans. No comments but lots of stares and double-takes. Are Americans just rude? Brits are cool and take it all in their stride.

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    Blackbird,
    The problem is if you keep looking over your shoulder for a reaction you may often get one . It really is a matter of building your confidence , I've been very lucky and never had any problems with comments or stares . Women may take a second look to check out what you are wearing .

    There is obviously another side to this , some people have never seen a CDer / TG person , sometimes they mean no harm but take a second look out of curiosity .
    Last edited by Teresa; 08-12-2020 at 07:53 PM.

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    I've been out many times over a period of about 20 years and I can only recall being stared at once, and I'm sure the guy was very drunk, so I'm not even sure that it counts. He didn't say anything; he just watched me continuously as I walked past.
    The first several times I went out I was convinced that everyone would be staring at me so I'd even cross the street if I saw somebody coming the other way.
    Then I realised that by doing so I might be bringing more attention to myself than if I'd just continued and walked past.
    I confirmed this on later excursions.

    Really, most people are just wrapped up in their own little world and don't really pay that much attention to others around them.

    The exception is if you do something to bring attention to yourself such as dressing inappropriately (i.e. not blending in), having terrible makeup or wig, walking obviously like a man, or even walking in an over-affected manner (don't walk the way you THINK a woman walks - walk the way they DO walk).

  14. #14
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    I'm totally with u, Val. I've been out dressed countless times. But, I NEVER go out dressed to vanilla venues unless it's with a group of T friends! I don't enjoy and will NEVER get used to; rude looks, comments, and the extra, mostly negative, attention I get out dressed.

    That's why almost all my outings r to T friendly venues and events!

    The rudest and most outrageous comments I've ever heard were in Vegas by the way. Not from locals, but tourists. Probably drunk at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by AngelaYVR View Post
    This is a great question. Let me first get this out of the way: we?re going to assume that your presentation is good and your clothing choices are not overly flamboyant. This is not a comment on how well you pass.
    -------------------------------------
    I'm sorry, Angela, but this is TOTALLY about passing and "dressing to blend". It's MIAD's that can't ever pass, period, that have these problems. Those of u that mite pass occasionally or r willing to cover up like your grannie to avoid attention, have no idea what it's like having people gawking, eye rolling, and chuckling at u every minute you're out dressed!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

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    Val, that's a good question, and there are many answers. Some are essentially the same, just stated differently. If you make a reasonably good presentation and have dressed to blend, there should be few negatives cast your way. When they are, look the person in the eyes and give them a big disarming smile. Works every time. People may well talk about you after they have moved on, but so what! You don't know them nor they you,

  16. #16
    Junior Member Val_Blackbird's Avatar
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    Thanks, everyone, so far.

    I'm not 100% sure how to address the passing issue. I feel like my one real advantage in that regard is that I'm about 5 feet tall flat on my feet. So, even in my highest heels, I'm shorter than a lot, if not most, women, lol. But, that said, I'm also about 20 pounds heavy, and I have oddly large biceps for someone who doesn't work out and never has. I don't feel like I have a very fem face, especially my monstrous nose. (I know it's a good pic, but you don't see all the bad ones it takes to get the good one.) I can maybe pass at about 20 - 30 feet, but not close up. No way. To how I dress, it's nothing too far out. Maybe it would work better on someone about 10-15 years younger (I'm about to be 39), but it's mostly leggings and body suits. I'm too fat to have too much hanging out. I think I dress mostly appropriately, not anything clown-like, at least in my opinion. I know we're not really supposed ot post pics, so I won't, but I think I pull it off reasonably well for someone almost 40.

    Besides the obvious safety concerns - particularly right now, with many people being over-stressed and looking for someone to release upon - I just don't do well with being the center of negative attention. I don't necessarily need the world to love me (in RL, a lot of people really hate me, seriously), but there's just something about public humiliation that is a borderline phobia for me. Now, perhaps that makes me . . . crazy? Selfish? Immature? Hell, I don't know. I just know it's not something I can just blow off and go "oh, that's funny." No. Not at all.
    Last edited by Val_Blackbird; 08-12-2020 at 08:46 PM. Reason: Added a sentence.

  17. #17
    Administrator Di's Avatar
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    Bit of advice I used to give Sherlyn when she first started going out.
    Practice /start walking around with your shoulders rolled back. This motion naturally raises your chin and helps you move around as tall as you can be. ... Then imagine how the most confident person in the world walks into a room ? then act more confident than that. Picture it and just act it till it becomes natural.
    We had a friend who we watched walking into a club....head darting around all nervous and when you do that people do look like ....what in the world is wrong? Something is not right .
    Not saying you do that lol but just giving an extreme example.
    You are not doing anything wrong, hold your head up and be confident and I do not think you will get negative attention then.
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  18. #18
    Platinum Member Shelly Preston's Avatar
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    Passing is actually more about confidence than anything else.

    Also remember they may be staring because they see an attractive woman.

    I recall one time I was walking towards a shopping area when I saw a guy watching me when I was around 80 ft away. He opened the door for which I smiled and thanked him. I was convinced he just wanted a closer look at me.

    Yes the posture and the correct outfit for the occasion will help.

    As for danger levels you have to consider where you are time of day the risks involved as a genetic woman would.

    At night this usually means staying in well lit areas, maybe taking a cab to your next destination etc.
    Shelly

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  19. #19
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    Maybe I should not be posting to this thread because you are asking a question to those who venture outside their home. I do go out on occasion but I choose when and where to keep everything within my comfort zone. An evening stroll once in a while is enough to satisfy pent up frustrations. Correct me if I am wrong. Your pictures says to me you're an African American. I have an African American son-in-law and thus a mixed race grandson. He's a great guy. He has been harassed and singled out for special attention many times. It is frustrating for him. His mother had "The Talk" every Black parent gives their child. He knows he will have to give "The Talk" to his son.

    When I read of transwomen or MtF cross dressers being assaulted and worse it is usually an African American. If this does not play in the back of your mind tell me I am wrong. A few of my Black family members have lived in Las Vegas and all was not peaches and cream. I'm six foot and 200 pounds. My chances are a lot better when it comes to avoiding unwanted harassment.

    Your concern and how you feel is definitely not stupid. Your comments are totally valid. I wish it was different, but it is not.
    Last edited by Stephanie47; 08-13-2020 at 10:15 AM. Reason: spelling

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan54 View Post
    ...when I went to a tourist attraction with a lot of Americans. No comments but lots of stares and double-takes. Are Americans just rude? Brits are cool and take it all in their stride.
    Well, British people are customarily polite anyway, and reserved in their reactions. You can't tell what they might be thinking though, even if they're not showing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    ...some people have never seen a CDer / TG person , sometimes they mean no harm but take a second look out of curiosity .
    I'm sure that's very true. I can hardly recall seeing a CDer/TG person out in public myself. Of course, if the person passes well I wouldn't notice anyway!

    I've been out in public only a handful of times, including a couple of times with my wife, but I haven't noticed any stares myself. Behind my back, possibly...!

    Quote Originally Posted by docrobbysherry View Post
    ...this is TOTALLY about passing and "dressing to blend". It's MIAD's that can't ever pass, period, that have these problems. [...] ...people gawking, eye rolling, and chuckling...
    I don't have the experience to judge that, but I can certainly believe it! "Passing" and "dressing to blend" are two separate things, but they do have something in common, namely congruity.

    Unfortunately people's tendency to laugh is involuntary and instinctive. Our minds are programmed to identify and classify things. Children are familiar with cats and dogs, but a small child will laugh spontaneously at a picture of a dog that says "Meow" instead of "Woof woof." Is it a dat or a cog? The two things don't fit, and we laugh at what seems incongruous. When we can't categorize something it causes cognitive dissonance. When it comes to people, it has been well said that "a person's sex is the first thing we notice... and the last thing we forget!" People's minds instinctively tend to register which sex a person is, or appears to be. If the person can't be categorized because the clues are too flagrantly in conflict, cognitive dissonance again results, and the incongruity can evoke laughter.

    I'm sure there are plenty of ordinary people out in public with what I'd call a "quietly androgynous" appearance, where we might have to look twice to determine whether we think that's a man or a woman. Nobody would laugh at them, because the clues to their anatomical sex are weak and don't present significant conflict. But if the clues are both bold and contradictory, that's what evokes stares, headshaking and possibly laughter.

    I mentioned that I can hardly recall noticing any crossdressers or transpeople out in public, but one that I did see still sticks in my mind after thirty years or so. He--I have to say "he" because he was so obviously male--was waiting at a gate in Chicago's O'Hare airport. He was young and muscular with short blond hair, a "butch" haircut, a tight T-shirt that showed off his barrel chest, but with some feminine design on it, tight women's shorts in some feminine color that only revealed how masculine his hairy legs were, sparkly women's sandals with colored nail polish on finger and toenails. and a touch of makeup on his face. The whole getup was such a deliberately flamboyant mixture of masculine and feminine that I had to think (call it "prejudice" if you like), "Gender be damned; that guy has to be gay to dress in such an 'in your face' fashion." I didn't want to be rude--and very likely he was courting attention anyway--but since we were waiting for the same flight, I couldn't help casting covert glances at him whenever I thought he wasn't looking, wondering to myself "Is he for real?" He would have been far less conspicuous if he was wearing a dress!

    The lesson is obvious. We may get clocked anyway, but the more discreet, tasteful and "congruous" we are with those around, the less our chance of evoking embarrassing ridicule.
    Last edited by Marianne S; 08-13-2020 at 03:02 AM.

  21. #21
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    No, it isn't totally about passing. I occasionally wear a skirt or dress while presenting as a man. No one cares and people try not to stare. I remember once being stared at by a young boy in a supermarket but I think it was just curiosity and he had probably never seen anything like this before. The nearest I got to negative feedback was actually from a woman shop owner in the same village. She looked me up and down with a sneer on her face and walked away shaking her head. Others in the same village told she is notorious for her rudeness. I think the reference to BAME is relevant here to put this in proportion. Crossdressers seem to be accepted but thee is still some work to do on wider tolerance.
    Last edited by char GG; 08-13-2020 at 04:47 AM. Reason: Not letting the thread go in this direction

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    Di,
    If only we all had your support behind us in the RW .

    I do agree with the nervous, twitchy look attracting attention .

    Just to emphasise the point about confidence , I hadn't been attending my painting group very long as Teresa ( Terri to them ) , I always arrive early to set out the tables and chairs and distribute the easels for ones that use them . As I was busying myself an new member entered the room and immediately assumed I was the tutor , I explained the situation but at no time did I get the impression I was anything but what she saw . I admit it did feel good and at the time a nice confidence boost . ( My avatar was taken in the art room by a good friend )

    Sometimes it feels like a " Chicken and egg " situation , you need to get out in the RW to get confidence but you need the confidence to do it the first few times .

    Val,
    When we talk about passing it raises the question "What as ? " People will see something different , so I'm now happy to say I pass as Teresa , what they see me as is not always under my control but it works for me .
    Last edited by Teresa; 08-13-2020 at 05:37 AM.

  23. #23
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    No one is entirely impervious to criticism or ridicule but you really have to consider the source. Teenagers in groups and ignorant blue collar men are the only people I have ever had stare or comment. Even those instances have been few and far between. Another thing to consider is that the world is full of people who are inappropriate or uncouth, and will stare at anyone and/or comment on their appearance, regardless of gender. I have seen people do this to men, women, even beautiful men and women. Some people are just ignorant. Finally, there are plenty of men who will stare uncomfortably at any woman. It's just part of what women have to deal with on a daily basis. Once you accept these facts, you will be able to just be yourself and not get hung up by any of it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie47 View Post
    When I read of transwomen or NtF cross dressers being assaulted and worse it is usually an African American. If this does not play in the back of your mind tell me I am wrong.
    Bearing in mind that I have no personal experience of this, I'd like to offer two comments: the bad news and the good news as I understand it.

    The bad news: I have heard that the black community--males in particular--are more hostile toward male homosexuality than whites are. Of course we all know that crossdressing and transgenderism doesn't have to be about being "gay," but too many people in general don't know that and are inclined to equate any hint of femininity with "gayness." So there may well be more hostility toward crossdressers and transpeople on those grounds in the African-American community.

    There are groups like HRC highlighting violence and murder of transpeople--nearly all transwomen--and what they report bears out what you said: that a preponderance of victims seem to be African-American. But of course there is far more violence overall in the impoverished sector of that community. Regardless of color, it depends where anyone lives and what their socioeconomic status is.

    The better news--not exactly "good" news--is that looking more closely into the victims and circumstances of this violence suggests that many of these transwomen were operating as prostitutes, and prostitution is a notoriously hazardous profession in itself, risking violence not only from "clients," but from pimps and street robbers who in poor communities would roll any woman for the money she'd earned. That's quite apart from drug connections, gangs and the rest of it. I also understand that some poorer transwomen resort to prostitution because it's their only way to earn money for surgery. That's bad news for any "sex worker," but it's more reassuring news for anyone who avoids the "oldest profession" and the risks it entails.

    Overall, and ignoring issues of race, my calculations are that transwomen on average might actually be less prone to be murdered (at least) than the average man! Males of course are far more prone to be murdered than females are. For instance, in 2018, 10.914 males were murdered, compared with only 3,180 females (FBI figures): nearly three and a half times as many males as females (including children). That gives a murder rate for males of about 6.9 per 100,000, compared with only 1.9 per 100,000 for females. If I take the Williams Institute's figure that 0.6 percent of adults identify as transgender, and HRC's report of 26 transwomen murdered in 2018 out of an adult male population of about 124 million, this suggests the murder rate for transwomen overall is about 3.5 per 100,000--much better than for the average man. Of course this may be an underestimate, with deaths of transwomen going unrecorded by HRC. But it could also mean that transwomen in general are better at staying out of trouble than the average man!

  25. #25
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    If you're being stared at or laughed at, it's certainly disappointing, but it means that you are not passing as a woman. Go home and take some photos of yourself from all angles. Take a video if you can. Now sit down and study your photos and video. Are your boobs to big or too high on your chest? Are your hips too narrow for a woman? Is your makeup too gaudy or overdone? Is your beard shadow showing? Are you wearing six inch heels to the mall?

    Whatever it is (and it could be multiple things), work on it. If you look like a normal woman, nobody will stare or laugh.
    Krisi

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