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Thread: Wanting only the best parts of female 'privilege'

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    If your wives say it is a competition to be the prettiest, or most attractive, or sexiest, then ask yourselves why some women think they want to be the prettiest, most attractive, or sexiest. After all, these are not qualities that help to attain major life goals such as career advancement, or realizing personal goals such as getting in shape, achieving artistic merit, mastering a new skill, etc, or establishing close and loving relationships with family, children or friends.
    People who are attractive are more likely to advance in their career and make more money then those who are less attractive, especially women. Right or wrong, it is human nature and the way it is. Can't say, as an ugly person, I am happy about it but I can't change human nature either.

  2. #27
    Super Moderator char GG's Avatar
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    I also believe this is a myth, Vicki. For the last 20 years of my working career, I worked in a predominantly female company. Sure, there were plenty of men employed in the company but even the CEO was a female. If there were a "pretty" female who didn't have the brains or guts to do a good job, she was out. All of our female (and male) leaders are extremely smart and qualified. Most of the female leaders are middle age - plus some.

    Your idea of, "People who are attractive are more likely to advance in their career and make more money" may be true in some sectors but in my working career, I have not seen it. In fact, from what I have witnessed, an attractive person (man or woman) had to prove their worth, just like everyone else.
    Last edited by char GG; 10-15-2020 at 08:15 PM.

  3. #28
    Aspiring Member DianeT's Avatar
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    I think too that brains and a bit of charisma will take you anywhere. Beauty will get you exploited, mostly. There once was a question from a CDer in an old Ask-the-GGs thread about what it was like to be a beautiful woman. One of the GGs answered about a friend of hers who was considered beautiful. If I remember it well, the bottom line was that no one took her seriously and she had to prove her worth twice as much as the other women.

  4. #29
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    Reine,
    To answer some of your points in your reply #22.

    My wife didn't like the idea of role reversal , obvioulsy I didn't see it like that , she was working and didn't have time to cook , clean etc . The fact I didn't mind possibly made her feel slightly guilty , also she was seeing role reversal obviously knowing I was dressing some of the time when she was out .

    There is also the sexual angle , I appreciate women are going to be confused , why would some of us want to dress as women if we didn't want to attract a man ? So if it suggest we might want to attract a woman she is going to be offended suggesting she is a lesbian . I don't want to sidetrack this thread too far but that is the point when counselling possibly needs to happen , the male needs to find some answers the wife needs to find the meanings behind the labels being used .

    I also know my wife had a problem with her older sister , the competition was an uphill struggle for her , so personally I can see her point of view when her trusty husband decides he needs to appear as a woman , when I gave her so much as a man .

  5. #30
    Aspiring Member SaraLin's Avatar
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    just throwing this out there...

    I haven't noticed this thought yet, but I can see where the wife could feel she's competing with the "other woman" (him, dressed).
    Not only could she fear losing her man to "her", but how on earth can she win this fight - and keep the MAN she fell in love with?
    It's got to be terrifying.

  6. #31
    Senior Member phili's Avatar
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    This rousing discussion is really a nice study in the diversity with which each of us experiences and feels the many layers of gender in society. I think I share most of Natasha's POV, and feel like we would see things very similarly around us- enough to go out for lunch downtown, or in a strip mall cafe, feel comfortable with ourselves and the reactions of others to us. And I am left feeling more relaxed about the storms of protest I get some times over my views.

    I like the Forum because it is like a living personal journal, with the benefit of random commentators peering over my shoulder. I habitually tend to universalize my own experience, but this is obviously wrong and I am grateful for learning [slowly] to understand that there is no harmonious common understanding, except that we all are trying to deal with a jagged series of environmental cues from people we know and from social and cultural platforms, interacting with the dynamic dialog with body feelings, dream, unresolved conflicts, ...whew!

    I understood already that females do not all see the sensual delights of dresses and lingerie, or the lightness of their walk, as particularly a privilege. I saw it that way, but this is an artifact, I see, of my upbringing in the 50s with its highly structured gender roles and idealizations. That is now out of date, and Reine's perspective was very clear and helpful to me. I still carry the childhood gender training as a bondage I am struggling with- and that is the core driver of my angst, Teresa!

    As part of my bid for freedom, I distinguish now between female and feminine. Reine makes the case that there is no universal 'feminine' besides the province of female sexuality. I interpret it as just being able to wear a swishy dress and special underthings, and be able to be relaxed and receptive, or perky and chatty, and NOT tense and having to display manhood signals to ward off men from nearby women. on guard, ready to fight. That on its face seems like it could be resolved by just not being that kind of man. That so far doesn't feel like the right solution. I believe now that the reason is that I have some kind of transsexual residual and I literally feel a female-like sexuality. Without being too graphic, not having pendant genitals makes a huge change in my sense of myself- restoring a feeling of centeredness and peace.

    It may not be biological, and it may still be some infantile psychological choice as an infant, but so far that works the best to leave me feeling that I am a male girl, essentially- who is generally a competent tomboy but also wants to be able to at least 50% of the time be 'the desired one'. I am bisexual, which means that a person of any sex could desire me and I would not consider their plumbing.

    That said, few will desire me, but the really nice thing I found is that finally being myself with others in a genuine way is very satisfying, so if others don't desire me sexually that doesn't feel like a problem as much as a fact, like the weather. My wife does not desire me, which is a problem, but is really moot since there are other major longstanding personal difficulties at play. She actually thought first that depriving me of sex led to my crossdressing. But she subscribes to the domain theory, and also feels the more personal bits of jealousy and competition and worry about gossip, etc.

    I don't amplify my breasts or hips or hair, and I have a trimmed small gray beard. But I do like to wear blouses that conform to my breasts and with style lines that frame them, and to wear skirts and shorts that flare so as to counter the underlying male shape. I don't want my maleness to lead in my messaging. It can be 50%, and that seems to work well, either with dresses that are full skirted but not hyperfeminine with bows and frills, or feminine tops and regular pants or shorts. I am married, I am not dating or advertising for dates. I feel I am communicating 'feminine' in the sense of sharing the domain normally occupied by females, with respect to public appearance and general attitude.
    As an example, you could expect me to be gentle and politely disengage if you were rude or pushy, rather than bulking up my shoulders and hardening my eyes and jaw to indicate I have the capacity for violence. I do have the fact of maleness as a backdrop, so I am not a clearly vulnerable target for a predator.

    I am not flirting, I am just being, and it seems to work. I think I give people the correct impression that gender roles are many stranded, and there really is, based on seeing me, no particular reason to insist that males not enjoy feminine memes.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vickie_CDTV View Post
    People who are attractive are more likely to advance in their career and make more money then those who are less attractive, especially women. Right or wrong, it is human nature and the way it is.
    Echo Char.

    Nonsense. Here's a list of just some powerful women. They run the gamut from ordinary to attractive, just as in the general population, keeping in mind the practice of publishing the most advantageous photos - as many crossdressers do here. Physical beauty is not a bigger predictor of success than intelligence, expertise, confidence, drive, and discipline, no matter what internet "opinion" and clickbait say.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes...Powerful_Women

    But, this is off topic. The point that I picked up on as part of this thread was crossdressers who say their wives feel threatened because they reportedly view the the crossdressing as a competition - which has been rather a popular sentiment among some crossdressers in this forum over the years. And my question was, "competition for what, exactly". I also argued against the notion that wives feel there is a competition between themselves and their crossdressing husbands.
    Reine

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    Quote Originally Posted by docrobbysherry View Post
    ...Of course, Sherry is shapelier and 25+ years younger than her! So, maybe she had a rite to be jealous? ...
    I'm a bit gobsmacked over this comment. "Sherry," as you refer to your suit and a mask, is inanimate and effectively a costume. No woman is jealous of a costume, if they were, they could wear the same costume!

    Quote Originally Posted by phili View Post
    .... So when a female woman sees me verging into her area of society by wearing 'women's" clothes that are nice and having a day out, I am clearly playing dressup and cherry picking the presumed 'best of times-. ...
    What privilege do women have? That they get to earn less money? Have to fear walking at night or alone? That they have to be the primary care giver? Women have zero privilege, that's reserved for white men. There's a lot of words here, but basically I see you saying that wearing a dress or skirt is a privilege. It's not. It's clothing. But even that shows what privilege they DO NOT have. How can little girls crawl on play in a dress like the boys in jeans on the playground? They can't. You are a crossdresser and wishes it were more socially acceptable to be dressed as a woman so you are jealous of that. That's fine, but admit what it is.

    and this whole "competing" thing, I don't buy in to that at all. Women are not jealous of men dressed as women. Single, married, or otherwise. Someone is misunderstanding the message.
    Last edited by tooshytogoout; 10-16-2020 at 02:14 PM.

  9. #34
    Another fine dress AngelaYVR's Avatar
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    Ah, life in the playground! Boys are better than girls, girls are better than boys!
    Apparently to contribute to this thread you need to put your blinkers on and assert the world is how you WANT it to be. If anyone thinks that the average man and woman don’t have little mental cubicles for what is manly and what is womanly then they are just being obtuse. Saying that you’re “only” competing with a woman with regard to dressing attractively is like saying you’re competing with Usain Bolt “only” in the 100m!!

  10. #35
    Aspiring Member DianeT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelaYVR View Post
    Ah, life in the playground!
    I see what you mean. Like these persons jumping late in the discussion and dispensing snide remarks for their own narcissistic pleasure, without contributing a bit to the discussion. Some people.

  11. #36
    Senior Member phili's Avatar
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    To return to the subject of privilege- we speak of male privilege, but are more inclined to speak of female lack of privilege/oppression, as this view of the social context is popular right now. However, I think privilege really means anything we do that no one objects to strongly or prevents us from doing. Normally it refers to something that can be seen as desirable and that others are excluded from enjoying. Specific example would be that men often exercise the privilege of speaking over women, and women often exercise the privilege of taking charge and asserting authority in matters of emotional soothing. Men have the privilege of combative or competitive stance being accepted, while women have the privilege of administering self-focused personal care like moisturizing lotion. But any so -called privilege is just one face of a coin with many faces. A woman may suffer from lack of respect for primping. A man may be dismissed as a poser or loose cannon if too tense and argumentative. Being an attractive woman is just great as long as the right kind of man is attracted. Being a no nonsense unemotional man is great for getting stuff done, and a real liability when your son needs you to feel.
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  12. #37
    Member Miel GG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phili View Post
    To return to the subject of privilege- we speak of male privilege, but are more inclined to speak of female lack of privilege/oppression, as this view of the social context is popular right now. However, I think privilege really means anything we do that no one objects to strongly or prevents us from doing. Normally it refers to something that can be seen as desirable and that others are excluded from enjoying. Specific example would be that men often exercise the privilege of speaking over women, and women often exercise the privilege of taking charge and asserting authority in matters of emotional soothing. Men have the privilege of combative or competitive stance being accepted, while women have the privilege of administering self-focused personal care like moisturizing lotion. But any so -called privilege is just one face of a coin with many faces. A woman may suffer from lack of respect for primping. A man may be dismissed as a poser or loose cannon if too tense and argumentative. Being an attractive woman is just great as long as the right kind of man is attracted. Being a no nonsense unemotional man is great for getting stuff done, and a real liability when your son needs you to feel.
    No Phili, for being defined as a priviledge, it has to concern one gender only AND being valued by the dominant's system.
    For example primping is not a female privilege because culture defines it as superficial and reserved to the dominated.

  13. #38
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    Some of the ideas expressed in this thread are why I no longer think of what I do as having anything to do with "femininity." I've cycled through just about every form of self delusion in an attempt to understand why I do this thing. Along the way, I've entertained and discarded such notions as: the idea that I had a feminine side or an inner woman that needed to be expressed, that I was trying to be my own girlfriend, that my CDing and associated behaviors reflected what I thought of women or how I thought women should be, or that I could do femininity better than people who actually have what our culture deems feminine traits. I'm not competing with women in any sense. I could go on and on but suffice it to say that what I do doesn't have much to do with women at all. But it does have everything to do with masculinity and my tortured relationship with it. So I call it what it is: emasculation. I'm truly what Dr. Anne Lawrence calls a "man trapped in a man's body." When I was young, I had so much trauma and anxiety surrounding my perception of myself as masculine that I could barely function at times. This was a big deal in the hyper macho milieu I found myself in. Being perceived as a "fairy" was a potential death sentence but ostracism and constant bullying would be the minimum I could expect if anyone found out that my machismo was just a mask I wore to fit in. (Maskulinity, LOL!) Sometimes it was so overwhelming, I just had to take a break from masculinity and heterosexuality. Hence, crossdressing and associated fantasies although I didn't really understand it at the time. I could not conquer my trauma and anxiety so I found it easier to surrender to it. Either way I could cease fighting for a time. My sexual dysfunction was such that I felt there was no hope that I could have a satisfying physical relationship with a woman so I entertained the notion that I would be better off on the receiving end of the sexual act. I'm not competing with women for the attention of men thinking that I can out do them in attractiveness and sexual prowess. I'm not attracted to men at all. The fantasy is simply an exercise in emasculation. It's about me, not them. Over the decades I've pretty much dealt with trauma and anxieties that started me down this path but the erotic imprints remain. There's nothing I can do about that but to enjoy it while I still can. Womankind can relax knowing that I won't be trying to colonize their spaces. lol!

  14. #39
    Senior Member phili's Avatar
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    in reference to Miel's POV:
    As a GG she has the privilege of her POV being considered more accurate than mine with respect to what a female feels! On the other hand, I'll bet, given the diversity of human experience, there are females who agree with my definition of privilege, and who disagree for different reasons. Anyway, my original question was meant to be from the POV of males who crossdress, and who talk about how lucky women are to be able to wear pretty things, etc. My own experience was that clothes that felt like a privilege before I wore them all day didn't seem so clearly a privilege as the day wore on and I was in different environments, with different people, and doing different things.

    My purpose in posting was to suggest that we might want to acknowledge that these pleasures were really a form of cherry picking female experiences. That phrase itself implies that the experiences are the 'best' ones, and we should examine that premise!

    Thanks to everyone! This was very useful for me in terms of solidifying my understanding that my interpretation postulating a social bargain underlying the different allowable behaviors [won't say privilege any more- too loaded a term] is personal. It is rooted in the 50s and is not a way of understanding what we are doing that is particularly helpful to others here.

    I have come to feel that most of us, me included, have very skimpy sets of reasons for most of what we do. Each of us is holding only a few strands of a many stranded rope, and talking about the rope. Well- we are doing the best we can!
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by phili View Post
    To return to the subject of privilege- we speak of male privilege, but are more inclined to speak of female lack of privilege/oppression, as this view of the social context is popular right now. However, I think privilege really means anything we do that no one objects to strongly or prevents us from doing. Normally it refers to something that can be seen as desirable and that others are excluded from enjoying.
    privilege verb
    privileged; privileging
    Definition of privilege (Entry 2 of 2)
    transitive verb

    1: to grant a privilege to
    2: to accord a higher value or superior position to
    privilege one mode of discourse over another

    A "privilege" can be granted, or withdrawn. Such as.... a group being allowed to use a ball field at school, and the 'privilege' being revoked because the group violated school rules.

    So please, enlighten the audience as to what 'privileges' women enjoy?
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    Thanks Stevie for being honest , I dont need to quote the whole post but all of what he wrote I recognize oh too well .

    Like really that rang a bell VERY loud and actually helps me understand better . This applies to both men in my life that dd this - One I ended up hating the other I adored and miss terribly.
    Two very different kinds of life experiences/upbringing, but same end result and I know that more than a couple, if they read that carefully, will also recognize that too .
    Many MANY times here the word femininity could be swapped out with the word aroused , submissive or submissively aroused .

    Quote Originally Posted by tooshytogoout View Post
    I'm a bit gobsmacked over this comment. "Sherry," as you refer to your suit and a mask, is inanimate and effectively a costume. No woman is jealous of a costume, if they were, they could wear the same costume!
    This is just me ( a GG ) but over the years I have come to see Sherry as sort of performance art. He does pictostories on other platforms that I follow than can be pretty interesting .



    Quote Originally Posted by tooshytogoout View Post
    and this whole "competing" thing, I don't buy in to that at all. Women are not jealous of men dressed as women. Single, married, or otherwise. Someone is misunderstanding the message.
    You would be correct , none of us (gg's) are jealous, but some here sure like to think that .
    Last edited by Dutchess; 10-17-2020 at 07:11 PM.
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  17. #42
    Member Miel GG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phili View Post
    in reference to Miel's POV:
    As a GG she has the privilege of her POV being considered more accurate than mine with respect to what a female feels!
    I didn't give you a GG's POV. I gave you the sociological definition of a gender privilege.

  18. #43
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    I've always said that gender has no reflection on what a person wears, how they speak, wear their hair, what perceived "privileges'" they have or don't have or even their mannerisms. All of these this are outward constructs of their macro and micro social dynamic. It is ever changing and fluid. One of the most interesting things I've observed over many years has been the evolution of "Valley speak", I was in California when Valley speak burst on the scene from the San Fernando Valley on West Coast to the East cost propelled by music videos and pop movies. girls and teams learned to speak "Valley" with terms such as "like", "OMG", "fur sure", "totally", "totally", "seriously". Also the long vowel use in inflection as become entrenched in how a lot ow women speak these days.

    Is it genetic no, is it because of privilege's ? Probably because most women who use the inflection appear to be of upper middle to rich in economic upbringing. So what started out as a local regional dialect has in essence become a artificial national affection.
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  19. #44
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    To Phili, you mention privilege a lot. Privilege is another word for advantage. Males do have an advantage over women when it comes to physical strength, which in my opinion gave rise to their advantage in commerce and politics. Historically, males have made the rules that subjugated women. Why? Because they were bigger and stronger, not because they were smarter. Gosh, women weren't even allowed to vote until 100 years ago! Even though in the last few generations women have pierced through the many ceilings constructed by men to contain them, (although this still hasn't changed in many parts of the world) men still far outnumber women in the upmost positions of power.

    So "male privilege" is not as privileged as it used to be. Not when it comes to having a gendered advantage to power (money-making and rule-making).

    But, (many?) crossdressers seem to believe that there is such a thing as "female privilege" because women can buy all these pretty clothes, or in your words, "administer self-focused personal care like moisturizing lotion". You do realize that women have HAD to focus on ways to make themselves attractive when they had to depend on men for their survival? There was no option until the 20th century for women to become successful in what used to be known as a "man's world". Thankfully all of this has changed. That said, men are visual creatures who are attracted to pretty ladies and of course women know that. Even though we don't need to put on all that artifice anymore for our survival, we are still interested in attracting men - which explains the clothing and cosmetics industry.

    I don't know of any men other than crossdressers, who envy the pretty clothes, the makeup, the perfume, the pretty shoes, etc, the things that crossdressers say give women power. If some women have a certain sexual power over some men, it is because of male hormones and the male sex drive and not because women have some mystical "privilege" in that area. If some women do have the "privilege" of twirling guys around their little finger, don't you think that some men have the same "privilege"? Have you never heard of women falling so desperately for a guy that she will do anything for him, even if it places her in a disadvantageous position?

    So all of this explains, BTW, why women do not feel threatened, or why they don't feel they are in "competition" with crossdressers. Because women know that crossdressers don't have the biological things that men want and need. Just as I'm sure men do not at all feel threatened by FtMs.

    Really Phili as much as I like you, please stop giving credence to all these stereotypes about women. They simply do not apply to the vast majority of us.

    And LilSissyStevie, a lot of what you wrote rings true. Thank you for your honesty.
    Last edited by ReineD; 10-18-2020 at 03:58 AM.
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    Stevie,
    I'm going to agree with most of your comments as so much rings true . I did get a very interesting comment from a GG friend that helped run a bridal shop , in her opinion some of us possibly revert to a youg girl at puberty and some never move on . She was relating this to some CDing customers who just liked to visit the shop just to try on bridal or bridesmaids dresses , " Sugar and spice and all things nice !" syndrome as she called it .

    I will add that J** was a buxom woman and she was failry verbal with me because I was slipping into size 12 gowns and she had to admit she commented on not be able to compete with me on how they fitted and looked . She went on to say it's OK when a female customer can do it but frustrating when a male customer can do it , so was I stepping a little on female privilege in her eyes ?
    Last edited by Teresa; 10-18-2020 at 04:18 AM.

  21. #46
    Senior Member phili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post

    Really Phili as much as I like you, please stop giving credence to all these stereotypes about women. They simply do not apply to the vast majority of us.
    The subject of 'privilege' obviously touches a nerve for a lot of people, and understandably so. Can we all agree with this statement?

    "Many crossdressers speak of envying things that women do, and may even consider them a form of female 'privilege'. Many, if not most women do not see it that way! "
    We are all beautiful...!

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    Quote Originally Posted by phili View Post
    The subject of 'privilege' obviously touches a nerve for a lot of people, and understandably so. Can we all agree with this statement?
    No. Misusing the idea of privilege is what touches a nerve.

  23. #48
    Aspiring Member DianeT's Avatar
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    Phili, I agree with your last statement as you phrased it. I think indeed that it is important that you stress that your "privilege" qualifier is heavily biased towards the crossdresser POV, overvalueing things that would be of less importance for a woman, or even downright offending (like the cat call some dressers seem to be pleased with). When reading your OP I was for instance dumbfounded by the following lines:
    Quote Originally Posted by phili View Post
    So when a female woman sees me verging into her area of society by wearing 'women's" clothes that are nice and having a day out, I am clearly playing dressup and cherry picking the presumed 'best of times-. But they understand just how much more there is to being a woman, from their own biology [ok- I said social definition- but most people, like my wife, still feel their biology and their norms are linked], to the work involved in dressing up and grooming for performing 'woman's day out' , and it is meant to be their assigned reward- something they rarely actually get to do, and it is meant to counter the suppression and burdens they have had since being little girls and told they can't climb trees or get muddy or whatever. I sometimes think that the attention getting for looking good is meant to be intense, so it can counter a lot of less good experiences we also lay on them- like not taking their opinions seriously.
    If I understand it well, it is basically saying that being pleasing to the male eye makes up for being routinely treated as a nitwit (and then some) by the same. To a woman, this is a very offensive thing to read. Now, my take on this is that this is your crossdresser POV speaking. And when you write "I sometimes think", you are indeed thinking like a dresser and projecting your experience onto the GG's. Anyway, trying to follow the logic, this little scene popped in my mind and I thought I would share it (to readers: this is humour. Please switch to second degree mode.):

    ACT I

    SCENE I. In Paul's office.

    Paul is sitting in his office, playing Klondike on his computer

    Enters Kate, a file in her hands

    PAUL

    - Kate, you are beautiful and I want to mate with you.

    KATE

    - Thank you Paul, these words are music to my ears. But I came to you to talk about your sales results. In the recent weeks, they seem to have plum...

    PAUL

    He interrupts her with a wave of his hand and jumps from his seat to approach her, grinning

    - Oh, you again. Didn't I tell you to stop talking serious? It doesn't go well with your pretty face.

    He leans towards her (Paul skipped the class about consent)

    KATE

    She blushes as he comes closer

    - You are right, what was I thinking? That feeling of being a dumb piece of furniture at men's service is so fulfilling, what more could a girl ask from life?

    In the heat of the moment, she swiftly unbuckles his trousers (Karen skipped the class too), but suddenly freezes and gives an exclamation of surprise

    - My, Paul! Lacy panties? I would never have imagined...

    PAUL

    - Now, now, about these sales results... What was your question again?
    "There's one thing I don't understand. The thing that I don't understand is every [bleep]-ing thing about crossdressing." - The Blimey
    For those who consider telling their SOs, read this fine manual first: https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?13841-How-to-tell-your-partner

  24. #49
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phili View Post
    The subject of 'privilege' obviously touches a nerve for a lot of people, and understandably so. Can we all agree with this statement?

    "Many crossdressers speak of envying things that women do, and may even consider them a form of female 'privilege'. Many, if not most women do not see it that way! "

    I agree with "Many crossdressers speak of envying things that women do", although "touches a nerve" (in the sense of making someone feel angry, upset, embarrassed, etc, which is the Merriam-Webster definition) isn’t quite accurate. It’s more about some crossdressers’ wishful thinking vs making objective arguments, and I’m a stickler for objective arguments. Wishful thinking is not an argument. And even though some crossdressers believe that women have "a form of female 'privilege'", this doesn’t mean that women do, in fact, have the privilege of being women. I explain further below.

    So do you then agree that your following statement is not well thought through, even though I can totally see that you personally do envy the ways that some women choose to adorn themselves, or you do envy some (or all?) of women’s biological differences?

    Quote Originally Posted by phili View Post
    However, I think privilege really means anything we do that no one objects to strongly or prevents us from doing. Normally it refers to something that can be seen as desirable and that others are excluded from enjoying.
    Because there are lots of things people feel they can’t have and envy of others, that are NOT "privileges" enjoyed by these others.

    For example: the neighbor’s weed-free lawn (a priority for ridding one’s lawn of weeds, not a privilege); a neighbor’s higher salary (this is due to maybe being born in a family that could pay for a college degree and the amount of work put in towards a particular goal - not privilege. Note I am not speaking here of systemic racial privilege); someone else’s talent such as musical or artistic or someone else’s advanced degree (these are innate abilities or hard-worked-for accomplishments, not privileges); the facility that someone has of making friends and fitting in if you are shy or a loner (personality differences, not privileges); the accomplishments of someone else’s child if you perceive that your own child has no drive; the way your friend’s wife treats him, compared to how your spouse treats you. I remember my mother being envious of her friend whose husband made her coffee every morning and called her "darling", whereas it never would have occurred to my father to do the same. But, my father was very handy around the house and I remember this same friend telling my mother how she envied this, because her husband had no interest in working with his hands. It’s all envy for what you don’t have for a multitude of reasons, not privilege.

    These are just a few things that came to mind immediately and I could go on and on for pages.

    You are a crossdresser. You really, really like to be feminine. You get something out of it. It makes you feel good, whether you think you are innately feminine or not (and the definition of innate femininity is a whole other argument). And to counter your argument that women have things you feel you are excluded from enjoying, you are referring to society’s general non-acceptance of men wearing women’s clothes. It’s not being privileged that the vast majority of women are hetero and simply prefer their mates to not be feminine in appearance. Right? It’s a lot easier for a platonic female friend to accept the crossdressing in a male friend than it is for a wife who actually sleeps with her crossdressing husband. And because I’m not male, I can’t begin to explain why men look down so much on effeminate men since they don’t have to sleep with them … but whatever the reason, that’s not about women having the privilege of being women.

    In our society, people are largely expected to be true to their sex in appearance. This has everything to do with biology and cultural expectations (and maybe even honesty) and nothing to do with either men or women having the "privilege" to be who they are. Granted, once more open-minded people do become aware there are others who wish to vary from the norms of their sex, they are able to accept it to varying degrees. But again, this has nothing to do with anyone’s "privilege" of just naturally being true to who they are sexually (I’m referring to the biological definition of sex).

    Sorry to go on and on about this, but I feel as if I need to spell it out in excruciating detail because crossdressers’ arguments about women’s privilege, or a non-accepting wife feeling threatened or jealous because her husband is infringing on her "female domain" as if there is some sort of competition, has been popping up in this forum since it began. And these arguments simply are not true. What is true though, is that (some) crossdressers do envy women, as you stated above, even if they feel more comfortable pointing the finger to "female privilege or domain" rather than simply admitting to envy - no matter why they feel this envy.
    Reine

  25. #50
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    May 2018
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    191
    I am not visiting the forum as often as I used to anymore but it's a nice surprise when I see a civilised conversation with a lot of education thrown in for the crossdressing patrons and a lot of truths from the GGs. I am only going to add to the GG voices: never, ever, felt threatened in my role in the relationship with my ex, in my sexuality, and by the way he looked the one and (thankfully) only time he dressed in front of me. To me, it looked like a discombobulated image of male and female, like those square toys you used to turn the heads, torso and legs and create new combinations. I was stunned he would willingly want to look like that, and would find that attractive to boot. I understand that it's not what the majority of readers want to hear but it is my truth nevertheless. And I find it quite humorous that anyone would imagine that I would ever be envious of that.
    In the topic of privilege, women never consider the "freedom" to wear dresses as some sort of bastion of their nature that needs to be defended at all costs. Pretty things? I find three piece suits pretty. Those shiny shoes that go with them extremely pretty. Those cufflinks at the end of a starched shirt really pretty. The reason for that is that I am a very very straight woman. And men and all of the above are what I am attracted to. The word "pretty", interchangable with attractive (only because I consider the word patronising, since it is linked to only one state of womanhood that somehow disappears the older a woman gets), changes depending on what you are attracted to look at. Not what you wear. I wouldn't want to wear that. I would want my partner to wear it so that my eyes can feast on that image. That's why crossdressing was impossible to empathise with or understand.

    As the new generations grows up, it will be interesting to see how the perception and expectation of how both genders are supposed to look like changes. The stereotypes that Phili described will die off. Boys are now more accepted to wear whatever they want and girls don't bat an eyelid. Maybe crossdressing will end up disappearing as no one will find the image of a boy in a skirt unusual. I have high hopes that at least the lies and the hiding will stop. And that will only be a good thing for the relationship between the two genders.

    p.s. Phili, you have my permission to moisturise. In fact, everyone should.

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