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Thread: Interesting Question...

  1. #1
    Member Brandi Christine's Avatar
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    Interesting Question...

    My wife is accepting but not OK with what I do at this point (about a month into being out to her with my crossdressing) and asked me a question that I don't really know if I like the answer to.

    "If there were no mirrors and you didn't have your camera with you when you go on work trips & dress in that hotel room, would you continue to do it?"

    Being absolutely truthful with myself (and sometimes, especially with this issue that is difficult) I don't know that I would...

    What does that say?
    ...Damsel in distress.
    Not exactly natural, Stunning none the less...

    (As Girls Go by Suzanne Vega)

  2. #2
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    Its an interesting question. People are complex. I suppose you could put the idea to the test, and avoid mirrors.

    In my own experience, I find that I am OK with I look in a mirror, but not nearly so much in photographs. I’ve been relatively shy about sharing pictures of myself here or elsewhere, but when I do, its typically the most flattering images. Does that mean there is a lurking narcissist within me? I doubt it. I’m much too self critical.

    I have shared pictures with friends. The primary purpose was to say, yes, this is who I am. With my closest GG friends, I am usually asking “does this look alright”, but I suppose I’m also seeking some level of affirmation. And sometimes, rarely, I’ll think, “you look good today” and just feel like showing off a bit

    People are complex. While we might learn something about ourselves by answering a single question, more than likely, the individual answer is just a tiny part of a much bigger thing.
    Last edited by kimdl93; 10-15-2020 at 04:41 PM.

    Easy come, easy go;
    Easy left me long ago...

  3. #3
    Member chris80's Avatar
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    Apart from really needing a mirror to put on the make-up and check the wig looks right, it's the whole of being fully dressed, the look of boobs/bra, the feel of the clothes on me especially if made of a silky material or satin. A nice slithery dress lining also helps. I'd still continue to dress often as possible. I'm retired and my wife is fully aware and helpful.

  4. #4
    Exploring NEPA now Cheryl T's Avatar
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    That question is something to think about.
    I know that when I first came out to my wife she asked why I took so many pictures. As I told her it's to improve my image. I can stand in front of a mirror all day and say "You look Marvelous" (remember Billy Crystal on Saturday Night Live), but a picture is more objective rather than subjective. With an image I can stand back and criticize my appearance as someone else would.
    I did find myself always looking in mirrors or reflections in store windows when we would go out somewhere. I eventually decided that that was a "tell" to others around me. Everyone does it now and then.

    After all these years of being out to her and with her in public I can honestly say that now I use mirrors to do my makeup and to make sure my outfit looks right. I don't abuse them anymore. As for photos I take them now and then to document my life and my changes, not to have a record of every moment and outfit I own. If there were no mirrors it would be difficult to do my makeup but it would not be the end of my desire to express my femininity.
    Wear what makes you feel Confident !

  5. #5
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    To me it says you are a Crossdresser.

    Probably majority of people here fall into that category.

  6. #6
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    Well of course not!!! Do you have any idea how hard it is to put on makeup without a mirror???

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandi Christine View Post
    My wife is accepting but not OK with what I do at this point ...
    How does that work?

  8. #8
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    Of course I'd continue dressing.

    That's the entire point of doing it.

    To wear the clothes!

  9. #9
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    I am not a mirror or picture person anyway so I don?t usually look at myself. I will take a picture or check myself out in the mirror to gauge my look when in full drag. But I don?t spend much time looking at them. The image doesn?t match what I feel.

  10. #10
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Brandi,
    My answer would still be yes , I have dysphoria which I deal with by being Teresa , looking in a mirror isn't enough .

    Maybe consider a partially blind or totally blind TG person , what is their motivation if they can't see themselves ?

    The final question could be to ask what difference would a mirror make to your wife , how would she dress if she couldn't see herself .

    The problem is your wife and possibly mine in the past are always looking for ways to prevent us from dressing , even if you can't see yourself in the mirror the need is still there , if you had no female clothes the need would still be there . It's a basic fact which has to be accepted for TG people .
    The real me ,no going back.

  11. #11
    ~ Bondage & Pantyhose ~ cosmolovesph's Avatar
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    I would as i LOVE the feeling of many of the items I wear... I can still see my pantyhosed legs and heels without a mirror or camera
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Crissandra
    ~AKA - Cosmo-Loves-PantyHose~
    Don't forget to compliment those wearing pantyhose, as to how nice their legs look!

  12. #12
    Member Liz Jones's Avatar
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    Teresa,
    A blind C/D can still feel the fabric.........
    Liz

  13. #13
    Senior Member Pumped's Avatar
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    I still like to dress. Mirriors or not. I can still feel the bra straps, the tightness of hosiery on my legs, the feeling of wearing high heels.

    It isn't like I sit in front of a mirrior all the time while dressed.

  14. #14
    Member Geena75's Avatar
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    One aspect is that, when you dress up, you become someone else. That person may have the same likes and dislikes, but they don't look or act the same. The mirror or camera reinforces that 'different person' concept. Without that concept, it's just changing clothes.

  15. #15
    Member DianeT's Avatar
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    That's what I did for 34 years, so yes, without hesitation. If you like pantyhose and dresses or skirts like me the mirrors add nothing to the experience (somebody said something similar in the previous posts). More recently I started taking pictures for souvenirs and allow a more objective judgment of the general look. For some reason I find that looking at a photo is a more severe judge than the naked eye. I am the only one looking at these pictures, and they happened to be a comfort in these last months where I completely stopped dressing for a variety of reasons. Just like it relaxes me to dress, I find it relaxing too to see myself dressed, in particular with POV pictures.

  16. #16
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    If I have the opportunity to dress indoors for a short while such that I'll have on say a skirt, top, bra, forms, perhaps wig and or shoes then I'm only likely to look in a mirror if by coincidence whatever I'm doing puts me in front of one. Dressing out of view of others isn't about how I look, it's about being me. It's much more about how I feel than how I look.

    If going out then I'd say a mirror is something we need but only in the same context as GG's need one. GG's wouldn't want to go out thinking that their makeup looked like they'd just left clown school and we're no different.
    Who dares wears Get in, get out without being noticed

  17. #17
    Crossdresser Taylor186's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertacd View Post
    To me it says you are a Crossdresser.
    Yes to this ^^^.

  18. #18
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    Our minds are probably the most important erogenous zone in our body and I've no doubt we all have an internal picture of who we are when dressed... the fantasy of who we would be as a woman. We have to work VERY hard to come close to that with makeup, wigs, body shapers, lingerie and clothes, but alas I doubt we will ever succeed. That isn't to say there is no pleasure to be found in looking at mirrors. But it will still be the internal image that keeps us at this game we play. Of course, I know I'll never shave my beard so "crossing" will never be my goal. What happens between my ears is sufficient to allow me to dress exactly the way I want... mirror or no mirror.
    We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time...
    T.S. Eliot Four Quartets

  19. #19
    Aspiring Member SaraLin's Avatar
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    getting back to your question:
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandi Christine View Post
    "If there were no mirrors and you didn't have your camera with you when you go on work trips & dress in that hotel room, would you continue to do it?"

    Being absolutely truthful with myself (and sometimes, especially with this issue that is difficult) I don't know that I would...

    What does that say?
    IMO it says that one of the primary motivators for you is achieving "the look." What you see in the mirror (or on camera) is what's important to you.
    I'd guess you're a visual sort of person.

  20. #20
    Member Brandi Christine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooshytogoout View Post
    How does that work?
    It is difficult at best, she knows I need to do it at some level so she is accepting, but in the long run she want's me to stop. I have been underdressing in the mornings for years, but when I travel for work I do the whole thing once at my hotel room, wig, makeup, forms, I need to look, if not be, 100% woman. I have not gone on a work trip since I have been out to her though, not sure how that is going to go now that she knows... I know she disapproves of it, but she knows I want (or need?) to do it.



    As for what the mirror thing means to me, my wife has found several sites that talk about Autogynephilia (AGP) and is convinced that I have it, I'm not totally sure I disagree. One hallmark of AGP is narcissism, I have been told I am passable, and one thing do see when dressed is I love the mirror & the camera, I take lots & lots of pictures (with no outlet now, she wanted me to stop posting them, I agreed) When I read about the condition a lot of the criteria fit me to a T, some of them I do not like even though I see them in me, like it is an addiction... When I was going to a therapist none of this was mentioned, it was more of an affirmation thing, that what I was doing was OK (And for me, personally I have no issues with that) and now I am more confused then I was when I started. Do I have this condition that is nominally harmless to me? (but not when you involve family, work, life etc... then it can be a lethal condition) Or am I trans? I have had strong thoughts of transitioning at points in my past, the therapist brought them to the forefront. It also seems AGP as a diagnosis has fallen out of favor in psychiatric circles due to politically driven trans movement, one of the hallmarks of AGP seems to be that AGP sufferers who transition are at a far greater risk of regretting what they have done. I'm not saying I was going to transition, but my therapist was definitely pointing me in that direction. There were studies set up to look into AGP & detransitioning but they were quashed, if this is actually happening how is that a service to society?

    It is made so difficult because you see if this is an addiction it is something (In her mind at least) that can be cured, that needs to be cured. But (like an addiction) I am hesitant because I like it sooo much. It truly makes me feel so good when I get to dress up fully, when people tell me I look great, which makes me want to continue doing it, which releases those endorphins, which makes me want to do it again. Her argument is that I have escalated in the last couple years and I see that, to the point that I had a "work trip" and spent one day and two nights in a local hotel en femme and loved it, I lied to her, it was not a work trip at all. (Yes, she knows about this, it was a one off thing, but had I not come out, I know I would have done it again, and again...). In two years I have gone from a wig, some underwear & makeup, to six wigs, at least five pairs of shoes, a complete wardrobe, nails, etc... In my mind I can keep it at the point it is now and be happy, but she thinks it will continue to progress, and how do I know it really wont?

    If I was alone I would not be so distressed (but then maybe I should, I would not want to be in the shoes of someone who made a huge mistake & now wants to detransition) because it would be just me. But I have a Wife, she is my best friend, my partner in life, and this is having a profound effect on her.

    Maybe I need to look into the mirror a little harder...
    ...Damsel in distress.
    Not exactly natural, Stunning none the less...

    (As Girls Go by Suzanne Vega)

  21. #21
    Aspiring Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    For me, mirrors and cameras are just helper tools. It is all about identity and that does not need photos for self adoration or whatever. Personally, the AGP thing is pretty much history and has been shown to not really exist. It is a different interpretation of the symptoms. Made sense at the time, but in more modern thinking AGP turns gender variance into a pathology which it is now widely accepted to not be the case. We are just a variation on what is more common and our dysphoria is created mostly be a social environment that is not very accepting of the variations we exhibit. It is discrimination that creates the dysphoria.

    Mirrors are really convenient, but you can also use the reflection from a still water surface which was the equivalent of a mirror probably for the last 60,000 years or more. The dressing in clearly gendered clothing is a connection between your internal identity, your sense of self, and the world beyond yourself so it communicates something to others that look at you. Humans have a long history of expressing that in complex ways. A warrior, a priest, a doctor, someone who has lost their marbles, a male that identifies as a bit female or visa versa. Everybody does it and there is no need for mirrors because the expression on another person's face or their other reactions, whether a smile, a laugh, frown, or an expression of anger, completes the circuit. We are all different and we know who we are and how we are different, but clothes constitute a major way to communicate to others that information. Plain and simple.

    There are some very complex biological aspects to all behavior that has at least a toe imbedded in genetics, but all the rest is physiology, neurology and the effects of an unbelievably complex environment on that core genetic imperative and the framework it establishes. All of that is really important to take into account if you are ever going to understand this behavior to even a small extent.

    On the other hand, nobody needs to know any of that to operate in that complex world. You just do what seems best with regard to the sum total of all of those things acting on you. It is communication to others so they can communicate back to you. It is the substance of human sociality. The problem arises when some think various things are "appropriate" and other things are "inappropriate." Much of our social structure is based on behaving and interacting in "appropriate" ways, but when the noose of appropriateness gets too tight and individual differences founded in biology are strangled conflict is sure to follow because it amounts of a denial of someone's existence and their sense of self. If that person's identity becomes so narcissistic that it only is able to reflect back onto themselves and they never read the actions or reactions of others some really serious problems are not far ahead. So, for a peaceful social structure, the use of "appropriateness" needs to be present, but the rope needs to remain fairly loose so people who are "different" (natural variations) are able to live happy and fulfilling lives.

    Great question, Brandi, and good responses.

  22. #22
    Platinum Blonde member Ressie's Avatar
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    I don't have to look in a mirror constantly, but if I achieve the right look I want to see it. Other senses are also involved such as tactile, smell and even hearing. If the female illusion goes away and the mirror reveals a man in a dress, I become disappointed!
    "You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder

  23. #23
    New Member crobeson96's Avatar
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    For me it's the process, the feel, the act of dressing. A mirror is just an accessory. Visual confirmation of the process is affirming but not critical to my satisfaction.
    Can I have just a little mirror, though, cause, you know - makeup?
    I think one reason I like the question is that it shows that we may have a behavior in common but that we do it for different reasons.
    I imagine cis-women are just the same - common behaviors but a myriad of causes behind them.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Asew's Avatar
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    I agree with SaraLin that it seems your CDing is very visual based. For me it is mostly the silhouette (from my shadow to seeing myself in the mirror) and the feeling/sensation of the clothes. We all have different levels of motivators for it and if you take them away it won't be the same. Obviously cameras and mirrors will be around so no need to worry, but it is interesting to figure out your own motivations.

  25. #25
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    For me a mirror/camera makes no difference whatsoever. I would love to look passable, but I'm not. Therefore, I really don't like the way I look in fem. No matter. The important thing for for is the sensations I feel when I feminize myself. I love the clothes. The experience makes me happy, and nothing else is necessary.

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