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Thread: Does Crossdressing fit into LGBTQ?

  1. #1
    Total Dork GwenHerself's Avatar
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    Does Crossdressing fit into LGBTQ?

    I would imagine we might be included in Q, but not sure. What are your thoughts.

  2. #2
    Girliegirl Jillian Faith's Avatar
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    I always thought we fit under the T.
    Jill

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  3. #3
    Aspiring Member Angela1954's Avatar
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    i think the T covers us; just as the other letters refer to specific orientations.

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    Super Moderator Raychel's Avatar
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    My thought would be that we would always fit under the "T" portion

    But I have contacted several groups in my area, and they all said that,
    I really would nit be a good fit for their group

    One even suggested that I start a new group just for us,
    and she would help me get it going.
    my sister's reply when I told her how I prefer to dress

    "Everyone has there thing, all that matters is that you are happy, love what you do and who you do it with"

  5. #5
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Gwen,
    A similar question has come up before asking if we fit under the LGBTQ umbrella , I have mixed feelings about it but also doubt if the trans communtiy could go it alone when so many prefer to be hidden in the closet .

    As for the Q label , it had shown to be an old label to mean odd or unusual , no matter I don't feel being trans is queer , it feels perfectly normal to me .
    The real me , no going back.

  6. #6
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    There's a thread on the go at the moment about where we sit on the spectrum and I would suggest that it's generally accepted that on that spectrum is Transgender.

    Now I'm one who, at this present time, has no plan or inkling to ever transition but never say never. That said like many here I feel there's an element within me that leans towards having female traits. And so while male and hetro I have more than a little in common with those who do seek transition.

    One of the things that I feel does bind us into the LGBTQ community is that we sit as a minority within society, one that like Gays is shunned and derided by factions with the broader population. Because of that we have an empathetic link to the LGBTQ grouping much in the same way our dressing gives us an insight into the world of women.

    I suspect that one of the reasons some in the LGBTQ community shun us is, like the general population and their equating CD = Gay, they see us as people just acting out a fetish and nothing more. Both are as mistaken as the other in making such assumptions.
    Who dares wears Get in, get out without being noticed

  7. #7
    Weirdest woman ever! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Many long time CD's often drift toward being trans. Including many I have met. So, I think CD's should be included under the T umbrella.

    Even tho I'm definitely NOT a trans now. When I began dressing 25 years ago it was because I wanted breasts and fantasized about becoming female!

    But then, I do pretty much everything backwards!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  8. #8
    New Member Kristyn_Lynne's Avatar
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    I'm not fond of the whole "gatekeeper" aspect in the first place. Transwomen fight against being kept out of the definition of "women", then turn around and keep us out of the definition of "trans".

    Then I become guilty of it myself by thinking of crossdressers as those of us making an effort to present as women, as opposed to "guys just wearing panties and lipstick with a hairy body and beard".

    The central argument against us is that if we are doing it for sexual purposes then we don't count. I am sure all of our drives are more nuanced than that.

    Bottom line, labels suck.

  9. #9
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    Depends on who you talk to but I say yes.

  10. #10
    Member DianeT's Avatar
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    T (transgender) fits the bill as a crossdresser navigates between two genders, at least in presentation, and sometimes in more profound ways.

  11. #11
    Sunshine Gal AngelaYVR's Avatar
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    I sometimes get asked for clarification about who/what I am when meeting new people. I tell them technically I fall under the T but then add that I consider myself just a regular Jane with no further requirements than the person asking the question. Regular folk are much better with this than the few TS I have met who consider us pretenders to the throne.

  12. #12
    Member Leasa Wells's Avatar
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    I believe the LQBT+, the + allows for variations

    LGBTQA+: The acronym for “Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Asexual, & Allies.” The acronym is often expanded to variations of LGBTQIA to inclusively represent identities which include intersex and questioning people. Queer:An umbrella term used to refer to all LGBTQA+

  13. #13
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    I would say that CD's certainly fall under the "T", but it must be said that we are (generally) poorly understood by the LGB community. Never mind the fact that all to many in the straight community can't tell the difference.
    "Being honest may not get you a lot of friends, but it will always get you the right ones."
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  14. #14
    Member Geena75's Avatar
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    If you feel like part of it, I suppose you are. I am not gay, nor trans, so I don't regard myself as part of it. I have fun wearing the clothes and trying to look like a woman, that's all. Someday I might feel that it's no longer so enjoyable and I might put it behind me, or not.

  15. #15
    Silver Member Rogina B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelaYVR View Post
    I sometimes get asked for clarification about who/what I am when meeting new people Regular folk are much better with this than the few TS I have met who consider us pretenders to the throne.
    I will point out that for the closeted,they are never going to take a stand and "grasp a letter"... Nothing wrong with that BUT they never take the stand ! Those of us in the daily mainstream face far different challenges.
    It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !

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    I do not have to be defined by a letter. The only definition I need is one word....ME!!!! I am who I am and that is that. X

  17. #17
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Helen,
    As I pointed out to another question on this subject , the LGB sections are based on their sexual aspect and the Trans section is based on gender . They can also remain anonymous whereas our needs can be more visual . At times I wonder if we they think we lampoon their sexual needs with our dressing .

    If you ask some trans people about their sexual orientation they may not be able to give you a definite answer .
    The real me , no going back.

  18. #18
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    I agree with Geena75 here, and have the same lack of feeling of integration into most of the "letters". I am not Lesbian (unless you count my attraction to women when I am crossdressed), I am not Gay, I am not Bi nor do I want to transition fully or permanently as it seems the Trans letter implies for those that identify there. Queer seems to be a holdover long term identification that really doesn't fir for the heterosexual crossdresser either to me. The reality is that for many of us, Crossdresser is the most appropriate designation. But is seems to still come with some stigma in the "communities" and even seems to be considered somehow "less" somehow by the other communities. I can't help but think that the key here is not to try to "fit into" one o the letters, but to be whoever you are and be OK with that. I just know I enjoy crossdressing and presenting my female self for any number of reasons (of which so many of us have described in these forums over the years). Perhaps, the best place we all fit is exactly the title of this forum site, crossdressers!

  19. #19
    Aspiring Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    You make an excellent point, Teresa. The criteria in the LGBTQA+ spectrum are mixed and blend sex and gender in a way that is not supported by the science. The criteria being on a level playing field is really important in classification (taxonomy). It is like putting birds, flying insects and bats (mammals) into the same group by virtue of the fact that they have wings and can fly which the vast majority of animals can't do. It is a mixed up classification but does have its value in that all LGBTQA+ folks have one thing in common - they exhibit non-traditional behaviors. Is that justification for grouping them? Well, on the surface, yes.

    When you add crossdressing to transgender it creates a new mixed category because the criteria are mixed. One distinction I have noticed pretty clearly is the motivation for crossdressing which, at the basic level, is simply the act of dressing in the clothing of a different gender group but not a change in the person's sense of self (gender). It appears that, in a general sense, crossdressers seem to be motivated by having the dressing create a feeling of being a member of the female gender. Whereas trans crossdress because they have the feeling of being a member of the female gender. In the former the feeling is generated by the clothes while in the latter the feeling is the motivation for dressing in a way that makes you consistent with what is already there - the feeling. The final result is the same, but the motivators are different. One must then ask, why some need to generate the feeling by changing expression? Is it just a recreation or is it more fundamental and just follows a different path of development in the crossdresser as compared to a trans person? That is a very, very difficult question to answer with any kind of verifiable evidence without the ability to read another person's mind without bias.

    My personal solution is to group them together because although the motivations may be different the result is very similar. Birds and flying insects and bats can be grouped together as flying animals even though they differ by an incredible amount in terms of anatomy and their technique of flying. The aerodynamic principles are the same for all three, but their approach to applying those principles are very different with the result being basically the same - they can travel through the air rather than being confined to land or water but some fliers can also travel on land and in water. Maybe those are a subgroup of flying animals where many get around in the air but can go elsewhere. Sort of like a person who can change their gender expression but can also comfortably have sex with any other sex. If gender and sex are so functionally separated as seems to be the case it seems unnatural to group those who are essentially universal with those who are more specialized. Yet it works because the criteria change in the classification. So, criteria can become very important in the classification.

    So, for now, I include crossdressers as a form of transgender because there is really no easy way to distinguish them by simply looking. You can't tell what the motivations were simply from their expression. However, at a deeper level of taxonomy you will find some major differences in the neurology and functioning of the brain.
    Last edited by GretchenM; 11-27-2020 at 08:37 AM.

  20. #20
    Aspiring Member Lacey New's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geena75 View Post
    If you feel like part of it, I suppose you are. I am not gay, nor trans, so I don't regard myself as part of it. I have fun wearing the clothes and trying to look like a woman, that's all. Someday I might feel that it's no longer so enjoyable and I might put it behind me, or not.
    I agree with Geena. I am not gay nor do I consider myself as transgender. Even all dressed up wearing a dress, I am still a male who simply enjoys wearing women?s clothing. I guess that there is probably an argument to fit some of us in under the LGBTQ+ umbrella but I personally don’t feel part of it either

  21. #21
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    While reading the responses I 'googled' a query as to definition of transgender. To me, it always seems there is a necessity to put a person into a certain hole for another person's convenience. Let's get those subtle distinctions categorized. I drifted over to www.transequality.org and found an article on the scope of transgender. There is a segment entitled "What is the difference between being transgender and being gender nonconforming?" It suggests I may fit in that hole based on the premise I am wearing the clothing of the sex opposite of what's between my legs. And adopting the mannerisms too. It proposes such a person may or may not be transgender as described elsewhere in the article. Perhaps, Lacy fits into that definition.

    Is that sufficient for how I feel or what I feel? I feel very comfortable being all dolled up in a dress, hosiery and heels and everything else a woman wears, although I do not have anything "to pack into a bra" as my wife has stated. I also feel very comfortable looking like an unshaven slob in cutoff ratty jeans with no socks and a well worn tee shirt. No angst either way. So, what drives me to wear the clothing of a woman? Many times in the past it seems there is more. An escape from one entity to another. I've said many times a counselor I have seen for the past ten years suggests men and women have some dna of the opposite birth sex in their genetic chain. In some it is stronger than others. When the going gets tough handling some issues, why do I revert to the comfort of wearing women's clothing rather than seeking comfort in drug and alcohol like so many of my fellow vets have done?

    I have always suggested answering such inquiries as this to express oneself in sentences and paragraphs rather than trying to justify your existence with one word.

    Oh, my wife's second cousin is a transgender man who is currently pregnant and is delighted as his mother is. How does that fit into the equation of assigning a single word to his feelings? Just be who you are!

  22. #22
    Reality Check Krisi's Avatar
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    In my opinion, "No".
    Krisi

  23. #23
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    I miss the "olden days" when were the "transvestite/transsexual community", it was so much easier back then.

    As for if occasionally dressers are part of the LGBT... it really depends on the context of how "transgender" is used and who is using it. The terms we use are not standardized, and in this PC age probably never will be. For example, a local health agency has a "transgender health outreach"; they addressed trans who have sex with men and how to stay safe, and how to safely obtain hormones. Clearly straight crossdressers like me were not included, on both the sexual orientation and lack of HRT part. Health issues of someone like me are the same as other straight men who don't dress.

  24. #24
    Aspiring Member LydiaL's Avatar
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    Crossdressers have usually been slighted, IMO, when it comes to labeling in regards to alternate sexual or gender expression communities. Many Cders certainly do not fit firmly in the broad definition of transgender.

    On the other hand, most folks consider queer essentially the same as gay. So, perhaps drop the Q and add C.

    LGBTC. And forget adding further alphabet?

  25. #25
    Member cindylouho's Avatar
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    Is a crossdresser who honestly wishes to transition but cannot (Do not read as 'Will not') considered trans?
    Be the best you, be the true you.
    That said, I love faceapp so much I change my avatar daily

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