Regretting HRT?

[Aunt Kelly]

Wanting to retain a fully functioning penis isn’t really a far cry at all.

I’ve run across many a transwoman and transfemme enby in different corners of the internet other than here who want to retain the function of their penis and each has their own reason. Not every transgirl or transfemme enby is dysphoric about their nether region, just like not every transgirl is dysphoric about their voice, brow ridge, adam’s apple or beard.

Gender identity is not defined by anatomy. It simply isn’t.
Neither is gender expression, gender performance, gender role or sexual orientation. It simply isn’t.

That is old school thinking that should be tossed to the curb.

Yes, and no. I would agree that the term "transsexual" is a bit outmoded. When it was still "mainstream" parlance, it was taken to describe one who suffered from gender dysphoria and for whom all treatment for resolution was on the table. One who still wants a functioning male sex organ does not fit that category and, again, I can't understand why one would apply that term to one's self if that were the case. You should know better than to think I would believe that gender identity is defined by anatomy. It is defined by how we see ourselves.

Today, we know that there are indeed degrees of dysphoria and various other forms of expression. For that reason, applying the term transsexual to anything but someone who fully identifies as the opposite of the at-birth assignment makes no sense.

[ellbee]

"Regret" is such a loaded word..

Agreed.

Perhaps having a "change of heart" would be a better way to describe it?


From what I know, oftentimes this happens to those "on the fence" of the great gender divide.

IOW, maybe for those who the term "non-binary" best fits the bill, as opposed to trans/TS.


They also seem to be younger... In their 20's or 30's.

And that they rushed into things, from their timeline horizon.


Finally, other things may be a factor, from a psychological perspective. Meaning, what they *thought* was gender dysphoria, was something else entirely going on beneath it all, in reality.


I dunno, I'm just going by what I heard/read, and from my memory. Been a while since I dove into that space.



As for true *regret*?

There may be a few examples of that out there, unfortunately.

From what I've heard/read, they tend to be older now, having lived their other life for quite a while. And as they look back now, having detransitioned since, they feel like they had originally made the wrong decision (to transition) all those years/decades ago.

Of course, it may now be wishful thinking, on their part, that the grass would have been greener on the other side, of what "could have" been, had they never been through all that.


For those, I kinda feel bad for them, as they seem genuine about their regret. They do have this overall sadness about them. But they also appear to be sincerely happy now with their "new" old life.



Finally, I will say this...

Apparently it's been postulated that those in the trans community, generally speaking, do not like talking about this "regret" or "detransition thing," nor do they like hearing others talk about it... That they want to keep this aspect of it all hush-hush, to "pretend" that it doesn't really exist, that "mistakes" are never made.

Are those who say that, correct?

Anyway, it's not my opinion either way, really... Just stating how others see this. Please don't beat me up!


The bottom line, though, is that everyone should do what they feel is truly needed. But keep in mind that all this should not be taken lightly, but instead quite seriously.

And yes, I understand that for some, it's a no-brainer. I also understand that for others, it may be a bit of a struggle on various levels, rightfully so, given the nature of all this.

[Krisi]

So let me get this straight. "A trans girl" who's unhappy that HRT causes impotence.... I can't wrap my head around that. I mean, I know that for some, GRS isn't a priority, but that's a far cry from wanting to retain a fully functioning male sex organ. Really?

I don't think we should be judging others. I mean all of us in this group could be considered pretty "weird" by the "normal" folks. A lot of members here get no surgery but consider themselves to be "female". Others get breast implants but no vagina and consider themselves to be "female". Nobody has the right or authority to create definitions and require the rest of the world to abide by them.

If someone wants breasts and other female attributes, but retain a working penis, who are we to judge? That wouldn't be my choice, but if that's what someone else wants, so what?

[AllieSF]

Well said Krisi. We don't have to always understand why others do what they do. As long as it does not negatively affect us then we have no say in the matter.

Kelly,

Are men who declare that they are women, women? Just by crossdressing they fall under the big "T" umbrella. To me when they declare that they are women. It is no one else's business but theirs. Out of respect for each other, we should be supporting to them in any way possible. But questioning their decisions on how to live their lives, with or without HRT, bottom surgeries or putting on a dress to "prove" to someone that they are what they say they are, is going too far. You can pick out all the WPATH quotes that you want, but it will not change that person's mind. Why let it bother you and make a picky fuss over it. All these labels, medical or otherwise are in constant flux and take on meanings of their own in different situations.

Is a person who declares that they are a woman and never gets a therapist's or psychologist's determination transsexual? This is not "one needs to be or do this" to enter their group. That was a common thought in this TS section years ago, and I have met several from that old group. There was one that even said that you were not a woman if you could but didn't want bottom surgery. You could not join that elite group! Fortunately, that attitude is long gone. May it rest in peace. We are all equal on our lovely and interesting spectrum. We come in all shapes, sizes, mental attitudes, different walks of life and different ways to deal with being trans. The books will be rewritten based on how this new and younger trans voices grows and easily comes out. Definitions will be modified and corrected over time to reflect real life and better thinking. Let's not hinder that new growth because we are relying on past history and thinking.

Yes, a transsexual woman can still be a woman and transsexual even if she decides to keep and use what that supreme woman up there decided to give her.

[MarieTS]

Sorry to offend, but the conversation regarding definition is becoming way too woke. This is NOT about feel-good inclusivity. It is about defining transexuality. The dictionary is pretty clear on this. That is why we have a dictionary of precise medical terms. You cannot modify those, nor change the essential elements of a condition yet insist upon referring to it as the same condition. There are simply certain attributes that are necessary to fit into the transsexual categorization.
Note, I am not saying people not possessing, nor desiring to possess or incur those physical and lifestyle modifications are any less worthy. I am merely stating they do not by definition fit essential transsexual parameters. They are somewhere in between. Nothing wrong with that. However, we should not refer to a Chrysler as a Chevy. They are both cars. Leave it as that. But do not consider them as identical. Like it or not, they vary. But yes, the road can always be open to both.

[Krisi]

Find an old dictionary and look up the word "gay". Now find a modern dictionary and look up the word "gay".

Language changes through the years. Definitions change.

[AllieSF]

Just my point, Krisi, especially where the word "transsexual" is getting less usage. My therapist's diagnosis was not that I am a transsexual. Those letters got me my surgeries and will eventually get me my last one. Transsexual is a word that is losing its importance.

Here is a quick Google search result, bolding of words is mine. Check out the use of words that basically say that gender correction surgery is not an absolute requirement to be considered a transsexual. I do not read medical studies or dictionaries, so I do not know what they say. However, those documents are meant for professionals in the field who discuss things between similar minds. I bet we could find a lot of interesting technical and medical definitions that no way fit into real life regular conversations. My comments here in this thread is directed at all of us here. We are what we are. I do not need my penis and testicles cut off to be a transsexual in our world. Out there in the real world I identify myself as transgender, even though I know that I am transsexual, because that is the word that the general public understand better.

Dictionary
Search for a word
trans?sex?u?al
/tran(t)(s)ˈsekSH(o͞o)əl/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
denoting or relating to a transgender person, especially one whose bodily characteristics have been altered through surgery or hormone treatment to bring them into alignment with their gender identity.
"transsexual women"
noun
a transgender person, especially one whose bodily characteristics have been altered through surgery or hormone treatment to bring them into alignment with their gender identity.
"a pre-operative male-to-female transsexual"
Definitions from Oxford Languages
Feedback
Translations and more definitions

Transsexual - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org ? wiki ? Transsexual
Transsexual people experience a gender identity that is inconsistent with their assigned sex and desire to permanently transition to the sex or gender with which they identify, usually seeking medical assistance (including sex reassignment therapies, such as hormone replacement therapy and sex reassignment surgery) to ...

Merriam-Webster

trans?​sex?​u?​al | \ (ˌ)tran(t)s-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl , -shəl \
variants: or less commonly transexual
Definition of transsexual
: of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity is opposite the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth
NOTE: Transsexual people may or may not undergo surgery and hormone therapy to obtain a physical appearance typical of the gender they identify as.

GLAAD Definition

Transsexual (adj.)
An older term that originated in the medical and psychological communities. Still preferred by some people who have permanently changed - or seek to change - their bodies through medical interventions, including but not limited to hormones and/or surgeries. Unlike transgender, transsexual is not an umbrella term. Many transgender people do not identify as transsexual and prefer the word transgender. It is best to ask which term a person prefers. If preferred, use as an adjective: transsexual woman or transsexual man.

[Stevie Allyn]

My two cents -

Argument by dictionary is often doomed to failure. As Krisi said earlier - language changes, definitions change. All a dictionary definition shows is that was the meaning of a word at the time the dictionary was published.

[Aunt Kelly]

Find an old dictionary and look up the word "gay". Now find a modern dictionary and look up the word "gay".

Language changes through the years. Definitions change.

So... let's pin it down. When, and where, did transsexual come to encompass non-binary?

[AllieSF]

Exactly Stevie. Now back to our regular programming!

Regret is something that we live with throughout our lives. We are adults. We try to make good decisions. When we don't, as adults, we get to live with our decisions and decide what to do next. With hormones, knowing that they are powerful, we make a decision. Then if we regret it for whatever reason, reasonable to third parties or not, we get to live with any physical changes, visible or not. Boobs, boobettes, moobs, can be hidden, or can be surgically removed. Impotency, if one reaches that stage on hormones, may or may not be reversed. Fat redistribution, which can take years, may be permanent, but maybe easier to live with as a male.

Since we are humans, we are not perfect and we make mistakes. That does make one bad or lesser than anyone else as a person.

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

When did a transsexual with a penis become non-binary? I thought we were talking about someone who considers their self as transsexual and still want to keep their penis. My friend Bad Tranny from this site a long time ago did just that for her own reason. She was on hormones and also had all the other surgeries, BA, FS and some body treatments. Tell her that she is is not a trans woman, a transsexual, though she may or may not like that word.

[Nikki.]

No one mentioned the word “transsexual” until post 26. This big penis controversy (no pun intended) began with “trans girl” who wanted to retain a functioning penis.

At the speed things are changing in the world of transiness, arguing over the purity of the classic “transsexual” will be in small quiet corners of the internets. People under 40 have moved on, and don’t care about stuff like being a classic transsexual, or HBS, or the rest of it. Peruse reddit when you have a few minutes.

[AllieSF]

I am with you Nikki. Young people are moving on, beyond old beliefs, to "so what?" "I am me and deal with it".

[Robertacd]

Well said Nikki... IMHO we do ourselves a disservice trying to fit everyone into the same little boxes.

[Dutchess]

@Allie , I liked Bad Tranny very much , haven't seen nor heard from her in ages . She didn't live in fantasy land.

While I am here Id have to agree with Nikki , my 19 year old has had friends in all possible stages of expression and they really do not care what mix of outer parts they have or don't anymore, they are how they identify . Totally different from people my age ( 58 ) or even somewhat from my kids in their late 30s .

[AllieSF]

Hi Dutchess,

I haven't seen or heard from her in years. She was something and she is a good human. Since we are not the experts and we are on a site with a few simple clear definitions, we need to be a little flexible. A lot of terms and definitions have changed some since 2007 when I joined. I have been defending here this less strict definition of TS because I remember those days in the past when some of those hard line TS's tended to look down on anyone who didn't do all they had to do to be what they thought a TS woman should be. If you didn't suffer as they did, .... etc. I really hated that part of it all. They did really struggle to be where they were, but that did not mean we all had have to do the same thing. I do not want to see a return to those old attitudes, better than thou hierarchy, "You must do this to be that" thinking and more importantly writing. All are accepted here and all are equals.

The NB's used to get hit hard there when they asked simple questions in the TS section. In a way that was one of the reasons that the NB section was created. In hindsight I can see that it was needed anyway, because that was a new idea for a lot of us! We used to use a Xerox machine to send faxes, thus the "Xerox it", a new verb. A Hoover is usually a vacuum cleaner, and the Brits "Hoove"r their floors. Why can't there be a little flexibility in transsexual too. As we say here, it is what is inside our minds that count, not what we do about it! I.e. You do not have to physically transition to be a woman or a man.

[LeaP]

No regret. I do dislike having to live dependent on meds, but what are going to do? If you need it, you need it.

I used to say that I'd rather kill myself rather than stop HRT. But then, I was so suicidal before starting that the comment begs the point anyway ...

Do what you have to do.

[Jeninus]

I had bottom surgery in June 2019 at NYU-Langone and am happier than I have ever been in my life. It has fully and finally resolved the gender dysphoria that has troubled me since I was about 5 years old. My understanding is that the surgery is more than 98% successful from the standpoint of the number of people who regret this surgery. Every other step is reversible. You could stop HRT at any time and have breast implants removed if that is necessary for your well-being. But GRS is absolutely final. There are a very few people who do regret the surgery and the path there is fairly torturous with gatekeepers at every step. It is likely that those poor folk - those who regret it - have reached that unhappy result either because they really cannot "pass" and are being continuously misgendered and stared at and therefore do not see the benefit of the surgery; or they have had painful complications with it.

Most of the people I know who are on HRT have told me that it is a positive in their lives and it was for me. They generally find an inner peace, even should they continue to live in their gender assigned at birth. Those who continue transition through to bottom surgery I think are for the most part binary, whatever their sexual orientation might be. In my case I continue to be very happily married and my wife and I consider ourselves to be lesbians. I have never had any other interest.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

"Bad Tranny" is out and about on the west coast.. She is lead singer and a band we touch base from time to time
She's "living the dream"...hehe

===================
Elbee said

Apparently it's been postulated that those in the trans community, generally speaking, do not like talking about this "regret" or "detransition thing," nor do they like hearing others talk about it... That they want to keep this aspect of it all hush-hush, to "pretend" that it doesn't really exist, that "mistakes" are never made.

Are those who say that, correct?

Read that carefully ... the underlined is a narrative..the detransition narrative is a calculated thing..
"Trans regret" is a powerful tool to influence how we are viewed..
as if "trans regret" is the worst thing that can ever happen to a person,
as if trying to transition and failing at it is the most devastating horrible waste of human life imaginable...
They cry "oh woe is me". 'I was tricked"..."they didn't tell me what I was getting into".."they made it too easy"
They act as if there is a cabal of trans mind control people casting a spell on them
MOST IMPORTANTLY THEY ARE BLAMING US..WE ARE THE BAD GUY..

That is what they mean by "trans regret".
They are painting us with a huge broad brush that puts us in an unflattering and totally false light..

The implication is that we are hiding something. That we have a dirty secret that we don't talk about!!

Imagine this..
Marriage Regret
Married people don't want to talk about the dirty secret of marriage regret!!! Therefore don't ever get married..
IF there is ever any chance of making a mistake...don't ever act... you might ...oh no!!!!!!.... OMG>>>> REGRET IT!!!!!

I guess there is no way around it in some ways. It is just a word and it means what it means. Can't argue about that.
I'm sure folks regret a three year life changing journey that ends up feeling like failure to them..

but honestly, its not a failure if they get to right answer for them, and they shouldn't be approached as pariah's or less than...
There is a detailed and specific set of protocols that is meant to ensure folks have all the info they need to make informed decisions.
and like every big decision, sometimes you regret it.


Now lets all join hands, sing kumbaya and march off together into a world with no regrets for anyone, and where labels are not important and gender is understood for what it really is.

[Bandile]

No, I haven't regretted it. I was actually planning on drinking myself into oblivion before HRT, due to the dysphoria worsening. However, my former doctor recommended a health department that covers transgender treatment with my insurance, which changed my life. I owe her much.

This is my 2nd year on HRT and won't stop as long as I'm living.

[SuzyZahn]

I wish I could come back in here 30 years younger,,,then it would be no problem. I would have welcomed it! But such is life,,, no complaints,,,but lots of wonderments.

[Star01]

Before learning I was a transgender, I did cross-dress at home, but I hardly could relate to experiences of many on the CD forum.

It's interesting that you would put it this way. I don't normally comment on posts in this section and hopefully it's not a problem with me commenting here but I feel that same way. My angst isn't about how I look dressed or going out roaming the streets dressed but it's a body thing and not being right when I look in the mirror. I'm in therapy trying to sort the whole thing out and I have seen several comments like yours that have caught my attention and just wanted to say thanks for putting it this way. I will go back to lurking now.

[ellbee]

the detransition narrative is a calculated thing..

Kaitlyn,

I see it. I know it's out there. It's exploited -- or part of it is, at the very least.


Here's another thing for one to ponder (again, please don't shoot the messenger! )...

Likewise?

"The *transition* narrative is a calculated thing."


It may not be fair to all. But it's out there, as well, according to some.

I'm familiar with that, also.

[Katya@]

It's interesting that you would put it this way. I don't normally comment on posts in this section and hopefully it's not a problem with me commenting here but I feel that same way. My angst isn't about how I look dressed or going out roaming the streets dressed but it's a body thing and not being right when I look in the mirror. I'm in therapy trying to sort the whole thing out and I have seen several comments like yours that have caught my attention and just wanted to say thanks for putting it this way. I will go back to lurking now.

Hi,
You're welcome. I strongly encourage you to participate more in discussions on this and other sections of the forum for 2 reasons:.
1. When you take time to put your thoughts in writing, and get some feedback - it's like a therapy session in and of itself.
2. You never know when your story/comment would resonate with another person. We all different, and wider participation helps with that.

[Devi SM]

Without reading all the comments, so sorry if I repeated other's comments.

I'm so far 2 years and 8 months hrt. At week eight I got scared for the noticeable changes and the evident future so quit for a week, interrupted the hrt but just one week after I retake it again because my life came back to the previous contact nightmare....

I can't be more happy now, but as gender dysphoria never leave you, sometimes, watching old pics i would like not to be a trans and just had live the life of a man but then I know that the happiness I experience now is real.

Soon life as a woman get to be the "normal" and many things that excite me in the lass are now the daily life but to face life as a woman, a business woman is yhe challenge in turn for me...

Achievements on 2020: pierce ears, orchiectomy, name legally change, electrolysis near to end, and the most important, relationship with wife is amazing.....

But everything is personal, my success is not a warranty of your success. We all are different but regrets can just be in just in our mind. We are what we think, what we speak, what we love....

Devi

[Ericka_d]

Honestly none so far. Maybe I would be different if I did it 10-15 years ago. As I really wasn't sure I was 100% trans. Now at 35 ive had time to explore my life. While there are male things I like. I can still do them as a female though. I have a great support system, and in the fall. I will be changing my whole life. To live as a woman 100% Now if I do chose in two years. I don't like it. I can easily go back, but I don't know why I would want to. My male life up to this point. Has been a major let down. Im not sure if my female life will be, but I wont know till I try.