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Thread: She wanted to talk

  1. #1
    Silver Member Maria 60's Avatar
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    She wanted to talk

    Yesterday morning still on Covid work schedule I was dressed pretty watching TV and my wife came from her bedroom/ home office to sit at the kitchen table to spend some time together since she was having a slow day.
    She made a comment how much more relaxed and focused I am when I get my dress time, and is amazed how I do my chores more relaxed and patience and put that little special touch when I'm dressed.
    She then asked me to join her at the kitchen table so we could have some small talk. She again made a comment how much happier I seam when I get my dress time, and then asked me when or if things ever get back to normal if I would like to maybe indulge more in the dressing. She asked if i would like to maybe go to a club or bar dressed, and she wanted to ask me a few questions first. She said that now I will go to a bar with a buddy and watch a game and have a few beers and small talk but can't imagine me with me with my already shy personality walking in a bar dressed and making any small talk with anyone. I told her I wouldn't just jump in the ocean and that I would have to probably find a support crossdressing group and maybe go out with them. She said now I sit at a bar macho man with legs open talking sports or work or the women that looks so hot and how will I be when I'm wearing a dress and heels with legs crossed, what would I talk to another CDer about. We agreed we don't want to tell the kids and complicate the family, so besides talking fashion how much of my personal life do I want to disclose to another person when I don't really want my male life known, what would I talk about as Maria?
    Her next concern was that there are men who are attracted to crossdressers and if a man did give me attention what would I do. I guess I dropped my head at that time and she told me not to be embarrassed or shamed about anything and maybe it's better to be honest and we have this discussion now because we are both in unknown territories but maybe if I was honest we could work out some boundaries. She pointed out that when I go on my Friday drives I definitely dress to get attention and if I was at a bar with alcohol involved and a man did show me attention would I let him touch me and how far would I go.
    I desided to put the cards on the table and be straight with her and told her I probably would like a man feeling my legs or just feeling around. She asked about a kiss and I told her I'm not attracted to men and never even thought of that, she got a bit more personal in which I won't mention here unless I want this post removed. So she said in not to many words I just would like to be felt up and the line would be drawn there and she made a joke about Maria would be like a tease.
    By the questions she was asking I could tell this wasn't something she just woke up with, the questions she was asking were a sign that she has been thinking about this for a while.
    She did admit that maybe with the Covid it made her rethink things and if we get though it that we should start fullfilling our dreams or fantasies.
    I knew she was very serious because one of her questions was, would I go dance with a man or if a man was trying to put his hand up my dress what would I do, I told her jokingly it depended if he was buying drinks. She didn't laugh and just staird at me serious, I told her I knew I didn't answer a lot of her questions because I don't know myself how I would act, or talk or even react to any kind of advancement made. All I could tell her was speculation, things I guess you just to know until your in the situation and really till that moment I never even thought about.
    Her point was she sees a split personality, she points out when I'm doing something dressed I'm much more feminine and doing the same chore not dressed my body actions are different.
    I guess this is a question I can't answer until I do it, but can anyone here educate me alittle and maybe tell me, how do you talk or talk about when dressed. Does it become a split personality and how being a Hedrosexual male does that change when dressed because after all we are presenting as a women.
    Well it is great having a open communication with my wife and talk about these things openly, but her assumption that is freaking her out and freaking me out now is will my Maria see things in a different way when all dressed up and maybe I will do something that would be against my male morels. It looks like she wants to help me take a step forward but is scared what's going to happen if we put the car in drive and reverse won't be a option anymore. Can anyone in light me alittle on how those first times out as a women were, if it was awkward or how the transition was.
    Last edited by Maria 60; 12-24-2020 at 08:11 AM.

  2. #2
    I can only be me Samm's Avatar
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    Hi Maria. No split personality here... I'm still me, no matter how I'm dressed. Which makes me think about when those here that refer to their fem selves in the third person. It doesn't make much sense to me.
    My point being, male or female traits aside, you're still the same person. It's ok to talk about whatever you want, wherever you want, to whomever you want.
    I see what you are saying, though. I tend to keep my mannerisms in check when in male mode, and try to stay more fem when in girl mode. It's odd though, I was never the macho type to begin with, but find myself more of a tomboy in girl mode.
    As far as male attention... I was at a club for an event with a cd/tg group. It was my first time out. I was by myself, I was early, and I was petrified lol. A male admirer complimented me on my coat, and asked if I wanted a drink, to which I politely declined. He was very kind and polite. Had he been rude, or toughly-feely, I'm not sure if I would have decked him, or run out of there screaming lol.
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  3. #3
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    Hi Maria,

    I've only been out a little but that does include three trips to Southern Comfort Conference in Atlanta including the 5 hours driving to and from enfemme. I tend to get more fearless the farther away from home. In my mind the possibility of meeting someone I know goes down astronomically with distance.

    The first time I ever went out dressed was too my first support group meeting. I think your idea of doing that is great. I just caution you to do your homework before jumping in. Not all groups are the same and some might not be a good fit for you.

    The fact that your wife is asking these questions does show a great deal of thought behind them. I would caution that she might have others and in the end worry about your possible transition. You have to ask yourself, do you want to present as female 24/7?

    Her remarks concerning "male" attention at a bar or club are very pertinent and something most CD's don't even think about or even recognize. I had just this discussion with the wife of a CD at Southern Comfort. The wife had specific examples of her husband, enfemme, dancing it up with men on the dance floor completely clueless about their advances or their intentions.

    It is something to be very cognizant of. GG's lean the art of fending off unwanted attention starting at an early age. We don't have that luxury.

    Lastly, I was approached by one "tranny chaser" at SCC my 2nd visit. We actually remembered each other from meeting my first time. Needless to say his advance scared the hell out of me and I told him I wasn't interested. He honored my declining his advances. (I did tell my wife about this and she laughed her head off at my predicament. )

    Good Luck

  4. #4
    Super Moderator char GG's Avatar
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    Good for you and your wife to have this conversation. Obviously she has put a lot of thought into what she wanted to say and ask. It sounds like she did her research and knew which questions that she wanted you to think about.
    Last edited by char GG; 12-24-2020 at 09:02 AM.

  5. #5
    Member CharlotteCD's Avatar
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    Should have been quite easy to say you wouldn't be interested, you wouldn't let anything happen etc.

    If you say you're not interested in men in male mode, but find you are when dressed, you're lying to yourself and are actually bi or gay.

    Some fabric in a different cut won't suddenly alter who we do or don't find attractive.

  6. #6
    Aspiring Member MonicaPVD's Avatar
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    You showed your hand to her. Either you are not interested in men or you are. The latter doesn't necessarily mean that you desire a relationship with a man. Only that you crave the attention and validation that comes when a man finds you attractive. If you are OK with a man "feeling you up" it usually is only a matter of time before that basic contact is no longer satisfying and you will seek out more. That's what experts call a *slippery slope*. One day you may find yourself transferring fluids with some guy, not because you are gay or desire to be with a man but because attention and validation as a woman can be incredibly powerful motivators. Tread lightly with the Mrs.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlotteCD View Post
    Should have been quite easy to say you wouldn't be interested, you wouldn't let anything happen etc. If you say you're not interested in men in male mode, but find you are when dressed, you're lying to yourself and are actually bi or gay.
    I think this is a total misconception people have about anything related to cross dressing. Having a fantasy does not make you anything. Having a fantasy about a guy "feeling" you up under your skirt or even "hitting a home run" is nothing more than a fantasy. If you have heroic fantasies of being a firefighter running into a burning build to rescue a toddler does not make you a firefighter. Even on the subject to male on male sexual interaction I've read an encounter does not necessarily mean the man is gay or bisexual. A single bisexual act does not equate to being gay or bisexual.

    Usually the fantasy is more fulfilling than the reality of doing it.

    I am envious that Maria and her wife can sit down and discuss these intimate details. I enjoy her posts. I get the impression Maria's wife does not feel threatened by Maria's activities. The conversations confirm she is secure in her marriage with Maria.
    Last edited by Stephanie47; 12-24-2020 at 11:56 AM.

  8. #8
    What a great life
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    Your wife asked a question and you say nothing or I don't know, She is probably thing the worst

  9. #9
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    Maria,

    From my experiences both you and your wife are getting ahead of yourselves. As we often say here, baby steps. Firstly leave bars till later. A quiet coffee shop or eatery is a better place for your first outing together. It'll give you time to talk about how each is feeling in that moment and provide support of each other. A spot of shopping together and then two ladies that lunch would be a good introduction. The cinema is a good alternative. Once through the foyer you're in the dark and have time to sit and relax into your surroundings.

    The first time I met another CD'er in a public space it was in a restaurant. Conversation once passed the usual introductions was just the same as any other time spent in a restaurant. "Do you want wine or do you prefer beer?" Are you having a starter?" "I do like your necklace". All the usual chitchat that goes on. These things have a natural flow plus we're connected by our shared passion and we each have our story to tell. Don't over think it before hand. All will come good.

    The man thing? "I'm flattered but I'm married" and leave it at that. Steer well away from any physical interaction. It's too easy to get into a situation where you're out of your depth or conflict occurs. You have a gem of a wife, why risk anything?
    Who dares wears Get in, get out without being noticed

  10. #10
    Senior Member Pumped's Avatar
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    My wife asked me if I had any interest in men. I don't, at least in general. Having relations with the average male, or worse, some hairy fat guy is a turn off, maybe a younger healthy I guess "twink" type interests me, but it isn't going to happen.

  11. #11
    The 100th sheep GaleWarning's Avatar
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    Maria, each one of us is different, so as far as I am concerned, none of us can put ourselves in your heels. You and your wife will have to explore the issues together, in complete honesty. And sometimes, "I don't know" is an honest answer!
    Take your time, think a lot, your dreams are on the line.
    Best wishes,
    Gale.

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    I agree with Jena. The fact that you didn't say you would not be interested is making her think you are. And there is no telling what path that will.lead her down.

  13. #13
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    It is great that your wife entered into the conversation and asked these questions. Although maybe not the ideal answer, I think an honest "I don't know" answer is better than a lie. When my wife asked a similar question about men, my answer answer was a firm no. No interest in that here. However, I also don't want to put myself in those situations and tempt fate. There is a lot to be said of your who knows until confronted with it comments. Monica's validation and slippery slope comments are correct. I would agree with others who recommended activities involving her, if she is comfortable with it.

  14. #14
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    My first thought is about the flip side. If your wife becomes comfortable with even the idea that you might respond to another man's advance, what is stopping her from having thoughts about men's advances towards her with the same openness. I don't see this being a one way deal. If you can fantasize about affirmation and more from outside the relationship, why couldn't/shouldn't she. Think long and hard.

  15. #15
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    Maria,

    I agree with Helen. Forget the bars. Baby steps together. Lots of things together. Go to another town if you are worried that you may be recognized when together. That way you both can be fully relaxed.

  16. #16
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    First of all, Maria, that's some high quality communication you two have going. I'm reading between the lines a bit, but it seems to me that you are not quite sure about your sexuality. Mind you, I'm not judging, just suggesting that you should probably get that sorted out before adding the complication of presenting as a female in a public venue where sexual advances by men may be expected.

    Your first time or two out in public will likely border on terrifying. There's no rational reason for that, but it's common enough to be a CD's "rite of passage". It's a bit easier in the company of GF/spouse, or with trusted TG friends, but again, pick an activity that isn't going to be complicated by male attention. You may get to the point where you truly want to dip your toes in that water, or you may find that you truly have no interest in doing so. Just get the whole "in public" thing sorted first.
    "Being honest may not get you a lot of friends, but it will always get you the right ones."
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  17. #17
    Member ronny0's Avatar
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    Extremely DEEP thoughts and questions....
    You need to be concerned if you want to expand your relationships, or if you desire to be with the one you are with now.....
    Once you open yourself to others, you might also destroy the one relationship that keeps you as you.
    Be extremely careful about opening yourself up to relationships that may hurt those that you care about, and that care about you.

  18. #18
    Senior Member mbmeen12's Avatar
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    Can anyone in light me alittle on how those first times out as a women were, if it was awkward or how the transition was?
    It was initially awkward but as the evenings of going out grew, it was wonderful being dressed and expressing my new world...Especially extra special going out is having a gurlfriend on your shoulder...

    As to your wife, take her, dress with her and enjoy life with your SO..
    Escapism isn't necessarily bad, but is definitely unhealthy in the long term. While helpful in the short term, things will degrade over time. At some point, the escapee will have to face the issue. Things simply blowing over isn't really going to happen in many situations.

  19. #19
    Senior Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    Congratulations, Maria, on reaching the open communication with your wife about your gender variance and the implications of that on your lives together. That is a huge step in the right direction. You do have some deep questions and they don't have clear cut answers.

    First, split personality. That is a very controversial subject in the psychiatric world. Some argue that it is just a dissociative disorder at work, but extreme cases do seem to show signs of multiple personalities as maybe being possible.

    In the gender world that switching is called sometimes called bi-gender. That is where a person behaves differently in each gender expression and experience. It is a matter of recognizing that behaviors are different in each gender and therefore complying with that recognition.

    Another group is co-gender which is where a person behaves the same in male or female mode and/or their behavior is often a blend of male and female characteristics. In other words, they are joined with a hybrid gender behavior. This form links fairly nicely with non-binary where the person doesn't really recognize within themselves the existence of a distinction between male or female gender forms. It is like pancake batter - everything is mixed together to form one identity with highly variable behaviors that fit the moment.

    A more modern thinking is that we all have only one identity, but it is patterned differently depending on your genetic inheritance of gender related genes and the vast array of experiences you have had that your brain fits together to create a sensible identity that fits just you. The identity can change and shift around over time as new experiences occur and are fitted into the grand scheme. The brain has the ability to rewire itself to fit new circumstances and experiences. You can effectively go forward or backward but each directional change has consequences that can modify the whole identity in various ways.

    In this thinking, your identity is composed of a variety of behavioral traits and characteristics that are male-like, female-like, or neutral (not related to being male or female in your sense of self). The male-like or female-like is judged by how much each sex engages in that behavior. Females tend to be more empathic and so that is a female-like gender trait, but males can also be empathic. It is a female-like trait in a male's identity. It shifts the balance a bit more toward the female side, but doesn't make him a woman. Same thing for women with male-like traits. Thus, the total identity is where the balance point is at that time. It may be weighted toward the female-like side at one moment and a while later it becomes more male-like. The balance point is not fixed and can change quickly as different neural networks are turned on or turned off depending on what the brain perceives in the environment. Sometimes one stays on one side for a long time with the other side faintly popping in now and then, especially if the environment tends to demand consistency.

    So, split personality? Probably not and that may not really exist. But it may look like you have a split personality when actually you are shifting your dominant identity form back and forth. In most people, that shifting doesn't happen much if at all. But in some people (namely us) that shifting occurs a lot and in each shift we sometimes tend to behave differently because the blend of active gender related neural networks is changing so we can deal with different situations most comfortably. Thus, in the end we all look different with regard to identity because the identity blending works differently in each person depending on your genetics, the experiences you have had in your life to pattern a behavior more or less consistent with your genetics, and the influence of current experiences on all that which existed before that moment.

    So cisgender people keep their gender identity within a narrow range of variation and deal with experiences outside that range as a stress factor. But more transgender people solve those same problems by shifting the gender to be consistent with the new experiences. However, each and every person is unique in how they deal with gender behaviors in an environment that requires a gender related response. But it is likely the pattern of dealing with a shifting environment is set by a vast number of genes that form a network that solves problems in more or less a single way. Thus cisgender people have a hard time how someone who is trans can have a variable identity because the cisgender person does not experience that. And the reverse is equally true. Thus, communication is really important to achieving and understanding, as well as an open mind to realize that there is not just one solution to the matter of gender behaviors.

    Perhaps you and your wife can use this information to form the basis for understanding each other and each of your gender behavior forms to achieve a common ground. It is OK for your wife to be cisgender and you be more transgender provided you each understand why you each deal with gender situations in a different way. It could just as easily be the other way around or you could both lean more toward the trans side or the cis side. More possible combinations than you could even imagine. Find the one that fits each of you and your loving relationship the best by understanding not everybody's gender works in the same way and each person is unique.

    Merry Christmas to you Maria and to your family.

  20. #20
    Silver Member Maria 60's Avatar
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    Wow! Thank you all for the great concerns and suggestions, I knew I came to the right place for this new twist my wife threw at me. I read most of the responses to my wife and she got upset at me because a lot of you suggested doing more things dressed with her and she has also suggested the same thing in the past. I don't know why but I don't mind driving around with her while I'm dressed because we are not really noticed in the car. For some reason I don't like to put my wife in a embarrassing situation being out with me dressed, there were times when I didn't want my wife to buy me fem things. I didn't want her to be embarrassed paying at the register for the size 10 heels and she would always tell me not to worry about what others are thinking and do what I enjoy.
    When I asked her why she decided to ask those questions, she said that at times she knows I would like to do more and she feels she holds me back and wanted to know if she could handle some of the worst situation that would be a club or bar.
    She agreed with Monaca that I would want attention from a man like a approval or validation that I am passable or attractive being dressed. She noted she could see me meeting and interacting with CDers of any gender but can't see me with no interaction with a man. I may be wearing heels and a dress but she stated under that dress there's a man and if I wanted interaction with a man,I didn't need the dress and heels and believed I would have explored that already. She also couldn't believe the concerns and amazing suggestions from all of you here. Thank you all and Happy Holidays.

  21. #21
    Senior Member phili's Avatar
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    Maria, Listening to your account of your conversation brings up a couple of things to me:

    -She undoubtedly is a very frank person and it is wonderful that she can lead the conversation gently.
    -She sees the change in your personality and it trying to understand it. I would print for her Gretchen's post, which has described the mechanics of so well, and start your conversation again.

    --Your wife is affected by the covid crisis and wants both of you to be more attentive to your unfulfilled desires, since life may be cut short. She wants to know what might the future bring. She undoubtedly would like to be asked what her special dreams are.

    -She is concerned about your interest in attention from men. As a woman she understands attention from men, and the push pull and all the decision points, and the variable aftermath. Your answer showed her you were fantasizing, but not connecting it to your relationship commitment clearly. She was trying to imagine a line she could accept with respect to non monogamous sexuality, but I'd say you left the question unanswered, and it is eating away at her. She is trying to know if you are sailing away from her or towards her. THis is destabilizing unless you have or are planning on an open relationship. She might be rather very happy to feel you up and more with your eyes closed and simulate that experience for you, so you can experience it as part of strengthening your relationship and her support for you.
    .
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by phili View Post
    --Your wife is affected by the covid crisis and wants both of you to be more attentive to your unfulfilled desires, since life may be cut short. She wants to know what might the future bring. She undoubtedly would like to be asked what her special dreams are.

    .
    I think Phili has a valid point. It might be a good time to ask her to sit for a chat and ask her what her dreams, fantasies and feelings are for your relationship and for her as a woman. There are some legitimate questions about how she'd react to another man doing, to her, the things she is questioning you about. There may be some questions about how she'd react to another woman doing the same to her. Your questions are as legitimate as hers and should probably be asked at this point.

  23. #23
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    I agree with Bea and Monica also about things being on a slippery slope here and that what is good for the goose is also good for the gander . My ex husband was this way but by the time we were at this point he was already having many online affairs that soon were not enough . These were very crushing for me but at that time I felt that I had to go along with his gender problems (which knowing what I know now was actually a sexual fetish) or I was uncool or a bigot or something and it bit me hard .

    Like some here he made it out to be an affliction that he needed special attn for .. its not . Fantasy took over for him and it just ramped up and up to where "just feeling up" ( as if THAT wasnt bad enough for me ) was also not enough . He was quite shocked when I left with another TG person whos main focus was me .

    He literally could not understand what had happened . He really did think it was ok for him but not for me .

    I could have sworn you had a post here where some guy DID feel your legs or brushed them with his fingers ??
    Last edited by Dutchess; 12-25-2020 at 09:55 PM.
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  24. #24
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    Maria,
    Obviously none of this can be answered at the moment through the pandemic .

    Afterwards how do you test the water ? Personally I would suggest finding a social group , most people are in the same sitaution , " What happens if ?" the point is you have safety in numbers also wives /partners can attend the meetings . I've been approached and found it easier to brush it off with others around .

    I know you posted a while ago about an incident where a guy did " feel you up " it's for you to decide if it's no more than a tease or something more , obviously you are playing with fire depending how you honestly feel about the situation and also how your wife feels about it .

    I admit I'm a flirt at times with men and women but it's knowing where the fun stops is important .

    Being dressed in this situation doesn't suggest a split personality , the fact is many men don't usually experience that contact and it's possibly intriguing to feel that way .

    It's great your wife has touched on the subject but I'm slightly wary because they can change their mind over issues and by then you've opened up with how you honestly feel .
    Last edited by Teresa; 12-25-2020 at 01:11 PM.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Sandi Beech's Avatar
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    This is an intriguing post. I am a little puzzled at your wife?s questions though. I can not tell if she is exploring possibilities with openness or just concerned where things might head.
    I will say this, I have a fair amount of experience in the bar and club scene while dressed. I would estimate I have had maybe 60 outings or so. That environment is not like going to a coffee shop. If you have legs, someone is going to put their hands on them eventually. It happened to me the first two nights I went out dressed.

    Monica described how I feel pretty accurately. The touch of someone feeling my shaved legs with pantyhose on is kind of exhilarating, and yet I would not want to kiss a man, yuck. Funny how that is with me, and a lot of people here were quite critical of me for saying that I allowed strangers to touch me in one of my posts. It just does not bother me. Also, I have danced with many women, and most were one third to one half my age. Do you think your wife would be ok with you dancing with much younger women. Mine certainly would not, and yet I have no desire to go home with them or remain in contact. The 10 or so people I have gotten to be friends with will remain my ?bar friends?.

    If your wife is ok with you having bar friends, more power to you, but like Monica said, it is a slippery slope. My wife would never tolerate me dancing with 20 year old pretty women despite there being no intent other than having some fun.

    Anyhow, I am just saying it can be done, but the bar scene might get you into trouble even with the best intentions of both parties so proceed with caution. My 2 cents worth. Personally, I have had a blast but it is DADT for me.

    Sandi

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