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Thread: Gender Inequality

  1. #1
    Member Yinlingyen's Avatar
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    Gender Inequality

    I felt compelled to write about this (as many of us may have) during an experience I had in summer.
    I was in "ugly mode" meaning born identity mode dressed in a feminine to almost unisex shirt and capri pants with a pair of feminine looking leather sandal. Mind you, even in "ugly mode" my toes are always painted in a clear coat with a slight hint of a "French" pedicure.
    The manager of the restaurant stopped me in the entrance and said my attire was not in line with their dress code and I was not allowed to go in unless I changed... I felt rather upset and ashamed at the same time with his condescending looks. What was I going to do? I wouldn't have time to go home and change and I did not want to let my friend wait too long or worse let her eat alone. I almost had tears in my eyes as I turned around and headed to a nearby ZARA and bought some "Ugly" shoes and and pair of pants that went past my ankles. Needless to say I was devastated and my whole day or weekend ruined.
    After some thought, I decided to take revenge or more like test my theory.
    I booked the restaurant again to have lunch with my friend and I wore exactly the same out fit only this time I was in "Pretty mode" all dolled up with make up, wig, batty eye lashes and full manicure and pedicure in gel-nails.
    Sure enough the manager was right in front of the welcome area all smiles looking at me.
    I did not reveal to him who I was and he led me to my table without a fuss and even pulled my chair for me.
    I am floored.
    Why all this double standard.
    Why can't we be treated the same. It's a hot day and all I wanted to do was look good and feel comfortable.
    Love,Yin.
    Last edited by Yinlingyen; 01-20-2021 at 08:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Gold Member Crissy 107's Avatar
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    Yin, I think it was terrible the way you were treated the first time, a complaint to the owners of that restaurant were in order. I honestly do not think I would have gone back there but you did and the jerk had no issues with you dolled up. That just confirmed the prejudice for our community.
    Crissy

  3. #3
    The 100th sheep GaleWarning's Avatar
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    I see it as prejudice against all of humanity. If a pair of sandals is acceptable attire for a female, then it ought to be the same for a trans person or a male.
    The owner seems to be a misogynist, which in these times, is not acceptable.

    It's a shame you and your friend did not vote with your feet and leave. Money lost is the only language which might change his attitude.

  4. #4
    Weirdest woman ever! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Now u understand why "passing" is such a big thing for trans! Everyone treats u differently when u appear to be female without a doubt!

    But, in my experience that hasn't always been a good thing!

    Anyway, your manager and I have something in common. I don't want to see a half finished Sherry in MY mirror either!
    It's all or nothing for me!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  5. #5
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    In the UK that action could land the restaurant in court as it breaks gender equality laws.

  6. #6
    Reality Check Krisi's Avatar
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    It's impossible to render judgement based on your story, but restaurants and similar businesses are allowed to have and enforce dress codes for their customers. Consider a formal restaurant and someone shows up in shorts and a tee shirt.

    If you don't like the dress code, the manager or anything else about the place, why give them your business? Why give them your money?

    Go where you are accepted and be happy.
    Krisi

  7. #7
    Senior Member Pumped's Avatar
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    But Krisi, she was wearing the same clothing both times, once in male mode, the other in full female mode. So it appears that woman can wear something men can not in that restaurant. It certainly appears to me that a femininely dressed male is not welcome, but a pretty young woman is.

  8. #8
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    It's impossible to render judgement based on your story, but restaurants and similar businesses are allowed to have and enforce dress codes for their customers. Consider a formal restaurant and someone shows up in shorts and a tee shirt.

    If you don't like the dress code, the manager or anything else about the place, why give them your business? Why give them your money?

    Go where you are accepted and be happy.
    My thoughts exactly. Pay to be subjected to that kind of treatment? Madness.
    "Being honest may not get you a lot of friends, but it will always get you the right ones."
    -- John Lennon

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  9. #9
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Yinlingyen,
    I can relate a story to using a well know London Hotel for their afternoon tea , it was my brother in law's treat for the four of us . We were both with our wives I was wearing a jacket with a shirt and tie , he was dressed the same but without a tie , both our wives were wearing smart trousers . My brother in law was refused entry because he wasn't wearing a tie , I will add a porter discretely stepped forward and offered my brother in law a tie but he declined saying he would take his custom to another hotel .

    Dress code is a touchy subject , I wonder what the manager might have said to a GG wearing a very short skirt . OK we have the right to dress as we chose but we should also consider other people have equal rights and on this occasion it placed the manager in a difficult situation when he had to consider other customers .

    I personally wouldn't have attempted to enter a resturant dressed half and half , I don't understand why you didn't go fully dressed as the manager respected you for your appearance the second time .

    If you want to be respected you must also show others respect .
    Last edited by Teresa; 01-21-2021 at 10:10 AM.
    The real me , no going back.

  10. #10
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    No offence but think you missed the whole point of the post Krisi.

  11. #11
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Kim,
    The expectation being everyone has to consider gender issues ! Perhaps we might consider that manager on a previoius occasion may have been OK with a similar situation but other customers kicked up a fuss , to me he was placed in a difficult situation .
    The real me , no going back.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helen_Highwater View Post
    In the UK that action could land the restaurant in court as it breaks gender equality laws.
    Unfortunately, there is no uniformity in laws governing presentation. I checked her prior posts and she has a great body and really nice pair of legs. In one of her posts she mentioned the temperature using Celsius, so she is not in the USA. I don't know if there is any protection for anyone in her country. I've been to many restaurants that have signs indicating it can refuse service to anyone.

  13. #13
    Member DianeT's Avatar
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    Sorry for what happened to you Yinlingyen. Some people are not comfortable with crossing boundaries. You were probably pushing a square piece in a round hole in his mind or something like that.

  14. #14
    Member susanmichelle's Avatar
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    I?ve had only one occasion where I was refused service and it wasn?t a restaurant. I?m so sorry you were treated that way. I would have at least said something on the way out the door the second time and wouldn?t be returning plus say something to the effect that social media is going to kill your business when you post your story there. Then maybe he?d think about it more closely the next one it happened too. I was with my wife at the time wasn?t dressed period and was refused entry to a woman?s consignment store. We don?t allow men in here period. All I say was it?s your loss my wife then even changed her mind and we left. 6 months later they went out of business. Karma
    Be Yourself, Everybody else has been Taken......Oscar Wilde

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  15. #15
    Member Yinlingyen's Avatar
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    On second thoughts maybe I should have my friend who is a girl dress up in tomboy attire and see if she is let in.
    This will fortify my theory that girls can be boys but not the other way round.
    I am sorry if I stirred up an resentful feelings with this post.
    For every ones information, I was actually not half dressed going out, I never do that.
    I was just being myself wearing perhaps what is more feminine style of a shirt, pants and sandals.
    I was not out in a dress in boy mode.
    Love,Yin

  16. #16
    Senior Member Jean 103's Avatar
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    That sounds more like a society thing.

    As a guy there is a certain dress code at some places, I'm guessing this is one of those places.

    As a girl, you could sell anything with enough makeup and whatever. Just call it fashion.

    as a guy you can't look at like a homeless person, call it fashion and get away with it.

    It's my experience that if you show that you want to be perceived female, you will be treated as such.

    I don't pass. It has nothing to do with that.

    I think you will find that there is a dress code for women. It's self imposed. There are many reasons and factors. It verys greatly from person to person.

    Like my BFF told me that you are not to wear shorts after 4pm. Like the same girl would go to the corner store for milk in her PJs.

    I do find I am treated better when I dress better, but isn't that just how society is. I'm referring to people who are more like strangers and don't know you.

    I don't think there's any question there's a double standard. It's just a person needs to be able to know which standard to apply. So were there is mixed presentation it becomes very confusing for the observer.

    What I would like to know is if you became a regular there would a mixed presentation be a problem anymore? I find these kind of problems tend to go away when people get to know you.

    Love Jean

  17. #17
    Junior Member JennyMay's Avatar
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    I?m sure you?ve all heard this quote -

    ?Girls can wear jeans and cut their hair short and wear shirts and boots because it's okay to be a boy; for girls it's like promotion. But for a boy to look like a girl is degrading, according to you, because secretly you believe that being a girl is degrading.?

    ― Ian McEwan, The Cement Garden

    I relate to it strongly. When I was at school girls were called by their first name, boys by their last. Boys were hit, girls not. It seemed like girls had it better, but at that time women were paid less than men for the same work and were subject to other open discrimination.

    I think what Yinglingyen experienced is a hangover from that kind of thinking.

  18. #18
    Reality Check Krisi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Summers View Post
    No offence but think you missed the whole point of the post Krisi.
    If I did it was because it was presented poorly.
    Krisi

  19. #19
    Member Miel GG's Avatar
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    In my country a lot of restaurants have a billboard saying 'formal dress required' (this is legal). Dress is of course referring the gendered dress code currently used... so both have to be correct but men have to be more functional than women because the latter traditionally also have to be pretty (sigh). In other words, men have to wear trousers and closed shoes (you can find a tolerance for shorts or capris in the waterfront).
    I think that the experience of the poster is telling more about the limits of bi-gendered societies than about gender inequalities per se.

  20. #20
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    It is considered perfectly acceptable for women to show their legs (or not show their legs) in a formal situation, but men are never allowed to show their legs in a formal situation. Why? Who knows. At the same time, let a restaurant deny entry to a woman for not wearing a skirt or dress, and the lawyers will come out of the woodwork to sue for discrimination (and in most places in America would win legally, no contest.) We live in a time where we are told there are no differences between men and women, but at the same time different rules and expectations are in place for men than there are for women.

    One could argue it is a private place and they can set their own rules. Which is fair enough, it isn't the place for law or government to get involved. But it is hypocritical.

    Personally, I would have just left the restaurant and be done with it. Personally, I'm getting old and I just have no desire to go to places with a "dress code" as a man anymore. If I am spending with my hard earned money I should be able to wear anything I darn well please. If not, I just take my business elsewhere.

  21. #21
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    When I first started working in a highly professional office (1978) there was a dress code. Men were required to wear at a minimum a dress shirt and tie with slacks/pants and regular footwear. Women had to wear dresses or skirt/blouse. Needless to say some of the women were irate, but, the boss was the boss. When that particular boss retired there was a relaxation of the dress code. Little by little it was nibbled away. By the time I retired thirty years later women were down to wearing whatever fell out of the closet; capri pants/sandals, jeans, sweat suits. The men were down to jeans. This was an office interacting for prolonged periods of time during the day with attorneys, CPA's and business men and women. I thought it was very unprofessional to look as if you're headed for the beach or just came from a gym. I still wore business attire.

    Our state laws protects gender expression and gender identity. I have not read too many news articles concerning either refusal to serve a well appointed cross dresser. The question that would arise is whether one barring entry run the risks of discriminating against a transgender woman. There have been instances of boys being sent home as being disruptive when showing up in drag at school. I believe an establishment could decline entry for someone presenting in an manner than may be construed as disruptive. I know the local LGBTQ community does not appreciate it when someone makes a mockery of them.

  22. #22
    Aspiring Member April Rose's Avatar
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    Personally, I won't wear a necktie to anything or anywhere unless I am paid to. It's purely political, so I can't go too far into it here.
    I am a vessel of the goddess. Let me express my calling to a feminine life through nurturing love and relatedness.

  23. #23
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    I was able to go to the casino in Alice springs (Australia) in an attractive sun dress and my wife was refused entry whilst wearing jeans.

    That was the dress code after 16.00 about twenty years ago.

    I think it is different now. :-)
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

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