A feminine mindset

[Maid_Marion]

Feminism is Taylor Swift re-recording her old songs to take back ownership of them.
Now when one of her fans has Love Song performed at wedding the royalty fee goes to Taylor Swift and not "the rich man" whom she hates.
The re-release of Love Song not only dropped this weekend, but is already doing very well as measured by download sales.
In three days the YouTube video has 11M views and 1M likes. Her YouTube channel has 41M subscibers.

It is more than a dispute between wealthy people. It sets an example for her millions of fans. Many of whom are smart and well educated.
They enjoy solving puzzles. She puts clues in her work and her fans use social media to discuss hidden meanings.

Marion

[Star01]

Case in point. My 14 year old granddaughter is into all the stereotypical girl things, makeup, jewelry, doing girl things with her friends. The deer hunting season rolls along and she is out sitting in orange hunting clothes waiting for a deer to come by her stand. She is smart and pretty and wants to drive a stock car at the local dirt track and hangs around the garage and helps work on cars.

That description of what it means to be a woman is more common than not in the rural area I live in. Most of those flannel and denim ladies are like that but are able to clean up and look nice when necessary.

If I was dressing full time and going in public or transitioning I can?t see my interests changing. I am still going to play hard rock, watch the same sports and action shows and get prettied up when the situation calls for it. I have been going to therapy for gender issues for a year but not with the idea of suddenly bring ultra feminine. I would still like all the same things just like my granddaughter will get all prettied up for the prom but will help weld the roll cage into their enduro car the next day.

[GretchenM]

Gender is not something that you have; it is something that you do. It is behavior and behavior is generated in the brain. Neurologically, males and females are far more alike than they are different. They appear to be different because we tend to cherry pick the traits and characteristics by focusing only on that which defines the differences while de-emphasizing the vast similarities. Perhaps the really awful terms of masculine and feminine are opposite sides of a single coin rather than being two separate coins as most people think of it. The metal between the two sides matters and what goes on in that narrow, unseen space is really important. Most males have a lot of female-like behaviors by virtue of the fact that most males and females use those same traits in about equal proportions. The reverse is equally valid. Thus we are all different and therefore, in a quirky sort of way, we are all equal. But even those behaviors that are different have been found to have a huge overlap and brain plasticity means that it all is constantly undergoing changes as we experience the world in which live.

Thus, stereotypes arise when we only focus on the differences. It is like viewing a vast landscape through a pair of binoculars that allow us to see only bits and pieces and not the totality. Gender is really all about identity, you sense of self, your view of your place in that vast landscape after you put down the binoculars and take it all in. Males and females may see different things in that landscape, but that comes from personal preferences as to what is important in the context your sense of self.

I think Micki came really close to describing this kind of view and perception of gender. Thanks, Micki, great response. There are differences but there are a vast number of similarities that cannot be ignored and compose to totality of those things that "are based on arbitrary societal values and not biology." Gender is most likely a blend of genetic determination blended and extensively modified by a vast array of personal experiences that fine tune the fundamental identity. A blending of the determined with the freedom of choice.

[Star01]

I forgot to mention that my granddaughter raises and is an authority on chickens. Or I should say that she was until some animal got into the chicken coop one night and killed them all. She was out there cleaning up dead chicken parts of her named chickens so they were like pets in some respects. She did not do the cleanup in a frilly dress and she she proclaimed that no #%@& chicken killers better come around again or she would blow them to bits with her shotgun.

This is my world and why I struggle to relate to the over the top characterization of femininity I often see expressed in posts.

[Miel GG]

For the last and final time ....." feminism." is simply a range of movements that calls for equality of the sexes under the law so females can not be discriminated ageist in favor of males .
https://www.google.com/search?client...1-d&q=feminism.

I disagree. First of all, there is not one feminism but several feminisms.

Secondly, to fight a discrimination you have to understand the mechanism leading to this discrimination. A long line of feminists have studied, analyzed and described those mechanisms in order to be able to identify the changes needed... in the Law for instance. This constitutes a substantial part of Feminism also.

Third, to come back to the OP matter, I assume you didn't read 'The second Sex' written by the famous Simone de Beauvoir (do it please). Way before anyone talked about Gender, she stated that Femininity is not intrinsic, has nothing to do with biology or psychology but is simply a societal construction. In her words 'One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman'. A thought we might all meditate.

[Barbara Jo]

If some want to change the definition of feminism for something they like better better, it will not change the real definition of it
I honestly can not comprehend why some refuse to accept the real definition.
I even posted al link to feminism .

This will be my last word on this . I did not create the definition, feminist did .

[char GG]

It seems many here view "feminine" as perhaps clothes, or old society norms. When in fact, I believe feminine is just being comfortable and happy being born a female and pursuing whatever interests we find interesting. I've never found roadblocks in my path for the activities that interest me, even if they aren't the "traditional" roles that my mother and grandmother followed.

Most of my interests are not what my mother considered "female" pursuits. I refuse to be put in a box that would call me a feminist or have someone define me with a label. That is the beauty of living in this century. I feel fortunate that there were those women before me who fought society expectations so that I don't have to. No one expects me to "be someone that I'm not".

[Wen4cd]

The subject of what 'femininity' actually is... is a deep, esoteric discussion that must reach past your own perceptions and conceits and the current zeitgeist. I am sure it is nice to think of it in simple terms.

Jung had a lot to say on the subject, if your Google fingers are cirious.

[Cheryl T]

Well, not knowing what a "feminine mindset" actually is I can't really say that I have one.
That being said I "feel" that I have that type of mindset. I certainly react differently to things than many of my male friends. I tend to think of many things in a way that I believe a woman does so maybe I do have that mindset.
Who really knows?

[Barbara Jo]

What is consider "feminine" can indeed be different for different cultures.
When I said we all know what being feminine is, I assumed it was understood that I was referring to the Americas and most of Europe.... where most cultures in those countries are similar.
I did say "In our Culture".

[sometimes_miss]

In her words 'One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman'. A thought we might all meditate.

And yet, there are distinct differences in how females and males perceive the world, and differences in how we interact with each other. One simple one is, when a woman is mad at a man, she will often give him the silent treatment to make him understand how angry she is. But men LOVE silence, so we don't get the clue at all. We can go for days without talking to our friends, even weeks, months or years, and don't think that anythings wrong at all; we can go for decades, meet someone from 40 years ago, and pick up right where we left off. But a woman whose friend gives HER the silent treatment will definitely think that there's something wrong in a matter of days.
Most women define their lives more by their relationships, than by what they do. Men, OTOH, define their lives by what they do and have done.
And there's so much more.

For Emmarinn, try reading some of the books by Alan and Barbara Pease, start off with 'Why men don't listen and women can't read maps'. There are others, but that one is a quick easy read, which will give you insight into how men and women think differently, and why. Here: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=alan+and+...ref=nb_sb_noss

All their books on this subject will help you understand whether you are more feminine minded or masculine minded.

[emmarinn]

So, the problem with discussing a “feminine mindset” is that you are necessarily defining what sort of “thoughts” are right or wrong for women.

Not necessarily. There can be as many mindsets as there are people. And more than one of those mindsets can be defined as "feminine" by the people who operate in them. Even in the same thread in the same forum, different women can have different definitions of femininity and neither of them are less feminine than the other, imo.

This is sticky. What sorts of things can women be or do that?s different from men?

What I meant is that only women can define what femininity is because they are the ones who actually live as women. This goes beyond the clothing, practices and/or occupations. Men don't get to say what's feminine and what's not, simply because men are not women.

The definition of femininity is the product of our way of thinking of the female sex and gender which are of course under the influence of patriarchy in western societies. Being feminist is also call into question the 'traditional'/ordinary definition of femininity.

I think this ties in with what I just mentioned. That definition changes all the time, as more and more women shape it to what they think it's best for them.

If we leave the "feminine" out of the OP's question, the question becomes: Do you experience personality alterations when presenting as female?

I was not talking about shifting personalities or role-playing. I think I could have done a better job asking the original question. I was asking people what have they learned or adopted from women in their lives.

What is consider "feminine" can indeed be different for different cultures.

This is where the original question was coming from. We all have different backgrounds and we all have different women in our lives with different definitions of femininity.

True ! And you cannot find any magic potion online to do so

If you want a GG's point of view on femininity, please have a look on our answers here :Ask-a-GG-Three see #3 to #8 and #15

Thank you for pointing me in that direction. I read it last night. It was very enlightening. I didn't know a similar question was already asked and answered by multiple GGs. Last time I checked those stickies were long dead so I didn't bother to check them again. Will pay more attention next time.

@sometimes_Miss, I'll check those books out!

Thanks all

[DianeT]

For Emmarinn, try reading some of the books by Alan and Barbara Pease, start off with 'Why men don't listen and women can't read maps'. There are others, but that one is a quick easy read, which will give you insight into how men and women think differently, and why.

Or see this: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/women...p?guccounter=1
Also choices of words matter, so this title:
- Men DON'T
- Women CAN'T
Mmmh.

[Miel GG]

And yet, there are distinct differences in how females and males perceive the world, and differences in how we interact with each other.

And yet, more and more researches results show that those differences haven't a scientific base and are only the result of a cultural construction. I think GretchenM has already mentioned the brain plasticity in her posts... It is a perfect example : different brain stimulations for boys and girls, different cognitive fonction developments for men and women under the effect of cultural injonctions. But the good news is : all is reversible ! So if we wanted to we could produce men unable to read a map or women who wouldn't listen. Lol.

[JennyMay]

Interesting, I just misread this thread title and saw it as a feminist mindset. I think that may have something to say to this discussion. I think I am a feminist though I would say that very quietly in most company. I am more and more angry at the injustices and oppression that women have suffered, and continue to suffer. One saying that resonates with me is that a man’s greatest fear is that a woman will laugh at him and a woman’s greatest fear is that a man will kill her. That, I think is basic to the feminine mindset.

[Maid_Marion]

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/tracks...ylors-version/
Taylor Swift is now wearing Romeo's shirt as a mature women!

An interpretation of this is that she is no longer a teenager looking for Romeo.
Instead, she IS Romeo. And with great power comes great responsibility. The Peter Parker Principle.

She took great pains to make sure the only one who got hurt was "the man."
The musicians who recorded the originals were brought back for the re-recordings so they continue to get paid.

If you watch the video there is lot of diversity depicted. About as much as can be reasonably expected with the premise that only Taylor Swifties get to appear in the video.
No body shaming here. GGs of all shapes and sizes are included.

When I grew up it men typically got credit for the work on women. The men were the bosses and made it possible for the women to do what they did, so the reasoning went.
This is changing. Women are increasingly able to get credit for the hard work they did.

Katalin Kariko is the scientist behind the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. She had the key idea and stuck with it for decades.

Marion

[sometimes_miss]

And yet, more and more researches results show that those differences haven't a scientific base and are only the result of a cultural construction. I think GretchenM has already mentioned the brain plasticity in her posts... It is a perfect example : different brain stimulations for boys and girls, different cognitive fonction developments for men and women under the effect of cultural injonctions. But the good news is : all is reversible ! So if we wanted to we could produce men unable to read a map or women who wouldn't listen. Lol.

Children's behavior in nursery schools and child care, show that females demonstrate different behavior than males; they show parallel play earlier and more often than males, and this continues through development. Lots more. Hard to be cultural construction at that age.

Aggressive behavior in very young boys perhaps influenced by testosterone, as well.
There are differences, observed at much too young ages for them to be cultural caused.

Also, if you read Timothy Perper's 'Sex signals: The biology of love', you will find behavior which is found throughout the world, no matter which culture you observe. Check out the references at the end of the book, too, also interesting reading.
There are differences.

[Barbara Jo]

Consider this.......

It is a fallacy that all humans start out as a female in the womb.
However, human brains do all start out as female brains.

If the fetus is female, they are all set with the correct brain
It it is male, at about the 13th week of pregnancy, the brain is flooded with testosterone to turn it male.

This where a problem can arise.
A female brain might be mistakenly flooded with testosterone at varying levels .... or a male bran can can fail to be flooded with it at varying levels

this is why society can not really dictate how a human acts in regards to what sex they feel they are and how masculine or feminine they want to be..

Evolution made us what we are but, we did not evolve perfectly.
The human body also has a few physical design flaws that can case problems.

[Miel GG]

Children's behavior in nursery schools and child care, show that females demonstrate different behavior than males; they show parallel play earlier and more often than males, and this continues through development. Lots more. Hard to be cultural construction at that age.

Aggressive behavior in very young boys perhaps influenced by testosterone, as well.
There are differences, observed at much too young ages for them to be cultural caused.

Also, if you read Timothy Perper's 'Sex signals: The biology of love', you will find behavior which is found throughout the world, no matter which culture you observe. Check out the references at the end of the book, too, also interesting reading.
There are differences.

It seems difficult for you to change your conceptions about gender. I understand that some CDs have built up their own long standing imaginary woman and maybe it is your case. However fantasy must remain what it is and not interfere with reality. Reality is being conscious of how our lives from birth to death are under control of gendered mechanisms who create artificial differences and produce inequalities.

Children
In fact at age 2 children have already categorised a lot of information by gender and know a good number of gender stereotypes (studies references available on demand). Scientists say that new borns seem to have incipient cognitive skills like classification. Gender is a very simple classification but in the same time omnipresent so the children are easily able to use it. Simply add a good dose of stereotyped adults around whom children will imitate (social imitation) and you get the perfect recipe to create a lot of stereotyped boys and girls. Congrats But again, thanks to brain plasticity, we can undo what was done if we want to.

Testosterone
I assume you are referring to this old study about prisoners, violence and testosterone. The problem is that study shows a correlation between violence and testosterone... not causality. It is a huge difference! On the contrary brain plasticity calls in question the idea of a brain under hormonal control. Therefore testosterone doesn't justify men's violence any more than oxytocin explains woman's sweetness.
Did you know that mothers' facial expressions are different with a baby boy or a baby girl? The baby boy is emotionally underchallenged, and in the long run that leaves him with only anger to express himself.

I will have a look at the book you mentioned.

NB : emmarin sorry to interfere with your post.

[Teresa]

Barbara,
The development after conception is known to be naturally female , the sexual organs develop depending on the chromosomes but the brain developes some weeks later to designate sexuality , that is where the problem can occur as the two don't always align .

Gretchen,
I feel you are correct in saying on a daily basis male and female are similar in their outlook and as you go onto say we do tend to select the traits we choose more attractive as they can be considerd more female than male . As I've mentioned before I made excuses not to do certain jobs because they weren't feminine enough but I had to do them so I found a compromise by buying women's work clothes , so no more excuses and found it is possible to do any job I used to do in male mode .

Star,
To a point I agree with you , now I'm fulltime my interests remain the same as they were in male mode but now I've extended them to include things I can enjoy living as a female , this is why I feel a complete person now . I'm no longer locked in a male straightjacket .

I admit I no longer wish to crawl under my car to fix the exhaust or change the engine oil , I find I'm not as capable anymore and tend to beak things so I accept I now pay my garage to do those jobs , it maybe cheaper in the long run .

[Barbara Jo]

Yes we all started out as sort of female but only briefly .

The following is a cut and paste from the net but it explains it much better than I can

"........In fact, the first five to six weeks of embryonic development are attributed to the X chromosome alone, and females grow from embryo to fully developed through the influence of only the X chromosome,.

When it comes to males, after that five- or six-week period, a gene called the SRY gene will activate on the Y chromosome, and actively inhibit certain features of the X chromosome. It will also impose, through genetic dominance, male physiological traits such as the testicles. This means that if the SRY gene is not activated, the female phenotype and physical appearance - which means clitoris instead of penis - will persist.

And what about nipples, I hear you ask? Nipples form before the activation of the SRY gene, during those fateful five or six weeks, which means we all get nipples, but only the females end up with breasts attached to them"

I said it was a fallacy because some seem to think that males were more of a complete female before being transformed into a male.

[Miel GG]

Yes we all started out as sort of female but only briefly .

Not quite, according to embryologists, for all vertebrates including us the primordium (embryonic draft of gonads) is bipotential. Not female nor male. I like that