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Thread: UK national census due in March , how trans are you ?

  1. #1
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    UK national census due in March , how trans are you ?

    I posed a similar question a couple of years ago but that was when I was still married . So my question then was , " Who would you lie to the government or your wife ? " when filling in the form .

    When first announced it stated far more questions would be related to gender on the basis that the government needs to know what changes and facilities to improve for the TG community .

    I understand it will be preceded by a letter with a password or number so you can complete the census form online , I haven't seen the lineup of questions yet but it could possibly raise problems in some homes if you are to give truthful answers bearing in mind to make a false declaration could mean a ?1,000.00 fine or possibly worse .

    I'm pleased to say I no longer have any problems with completing the form honestly now I'm divorced but I do wonder how some people may deal with it and be honest about their gender needs .

    The government is possibly giving us an ideal opportunity so it's up to us to take full advantage of it .
    Last edited by Teresa; 02-25-2021 at 07:12 AM.
    The real me , no going back.

  2. #2
    Senior Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    That is a tough situation and decision. I would want to answer as truthfully as possible, but I don't want to create a severe problem either. If they are going to actually use the information for beneficial purposes then answer honestly. But I am aware that in the UK there are some cases in courts and governmental perspectives that are not necessarily supportive. Pretty much the same here.

    My wife knows something about Gretchen, but she doesn't know the finer details. I suppose it depends on how secure the census is with regard to making the information available to review by others that might use the information for purposes other than honorable. Over here they are pretty confidential and honest answers probably carry a low risk of revealing that publicly.

    Plus there is the question of how they define TG, non-binary, etc. How far into that do you need to be to actually be considered in one of those categories? For you it is pretty obvious because you are basically a woman genderwise now. But far more are on the border.

  3. #3
    Member CharlotteCD's Avatar
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    I would write trans if it wasn't linked to any personal information, but I am simply not prepared to put that without having discussed it with my wife and with a gp/therapist.

  4. #4
    Platinum Member Shelly Preston's Avatar
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    Hi Teresa

    I was curious so I googled the questions for 2021

    At the start it asks
    are you male or female
    Later it asks-
    Is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth ?
    Shelly

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  5. #5
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Shelly,
    Many thanks for doing a search .

    The first question I reluctantly anwer M but the second question raises a problem , as GretchenM points out it's easier for me but how do you deal with the dilemma with your wife/partner sitting next to you ?

    Charlotte,
    I'm not sure how much help the therapist can be apart from they would want you to be honest but they aren't facing the same dilemma as you . Realistlicly it should be an honest answer from you but it may not be what the wife wants you to reply , back to my question , " Who do you lie to ?"

    GretchenM,
    Of course we are assured the answers are treated with strictest confidence but that begs the question how many need to know ? The information is only valid if it's shared otherwise there is very little point in holding a census at all .

    At least I know in being free to be honest it could help others in our TG community , I hope so .
    The real me , no going back.

  6. #6
    Junior Member JennyMay's Avatar
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    It seems to me that there is a problem in answering the question as asked. The problem is that they are asking a binary question about gender whilst gender is (at the very least) a spectrum. I don’t see myself as fitting into one box or another. I WISH I was totally female but I know that I am not. My answer to the second question would be ‘not completely’ but that won’t be an option.

  7. #7
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    I was just thinking of a man and his wife filling out the form together and coming up to a question that asks "Have you ever cheated on your spouse?".

  8. #8
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    teresa,

    In relation to, "bearing in mind to make a false declaration could mean a ?1,000.00 fine or possibly worse ." it doesn't mean all questions have to be answered. Some are optional.

    On a broader note it can be nerve racking to join this forum as the worry is once you click to join you'll immediately be outed to one and all. That same niggle sits there with the census in that admitting your gender differences will immediately have the police at your door with all the neighbours banging pots together in the street. However strict laws apply to the use of census data with the vast bulk of it being anonymised and that which isn't being visible to a very small number of people. Mis-use or disclosure of any data carries severe penalties.
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  9. #9
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Helen,
    Not having seen the form yet I can't answer what questions will be compulsory and what are optional but not answering a question could be seen as lying by omission .

    I do feel this could be a serious question or a problem in some households but I wasn't inferring people knocking the door down brandishing pitchforks !!

    That's an interesting quote , " Mis-use of data ! " who actually decides where that boundary is ?

    Kim,
    Lets not forget we are considering an official UK government document not a Mori poll , I can't answer for the official US census but there must be the same legal requirent to state true facts .

    Jenny,
    I was only responding to Shelly's two points so again having not seen the official document I can't say what alternatives will be offered .


    I will add after I saw the proposed document a couple of years ago there may even be some dumbing down , some had already stated it was going too far . The one point I'm surprised at is they haven't postponed it until we have the worse of the pandemic behind us .
    Last edited by Teresa; 02-25-2021 at 02:45 PM.
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  10. #10
    Aspiring Member kayegirl's Avatar
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    ITeresa, I think that you will find that Teresa question regarding gender identification is opotion all, but in any case, and speaking as onew who has worked the census in previous years, nobody is going to be checking your answer.
    On another point, the UK census has been held every 10 years since 1711, why would you want to delay it now just because of the pandemic?

  11. #11
    Member Marguarite's Avatar
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    In the US our census was taken last year.

    I don't remember that type of details.

  12. #12
    Silver Member Rogina B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    Shelly,
    Many thanks for doing a search .

    The first question I reluctantly anwer M but the second question raises a problem , as GretchenM points out it's easier for me but how do you deal with the dilemma with your wife/partner sitting next
    In the closet....You can't expect to have it both ways... Own it, or don't.
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  13. #13
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    Hi Teresa , That kinda puts byou between a rock and a hard place, >Orchid**OO**
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  14. #14
    Fun Member Natalie5004's Avatar
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    I am more lesbian than trans.

  15. #15
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Rogina,
    We are talking about telling the truth for an official document and officially I'm still registered as male so it would would be a reluctant reply but true .

    The rest won't be a problem to me but for some households it will be a problem , owning it to your wife or owning it to an official document .

    Kaye ,
    As mentioned I haven't seen the actual document yet so I can't answer what will be optional and what will be compulsory .

    Blue ,
    It could put some people in that situation , it will be a shame some can't come out for an official document because of their domestic situation.

    Marguarite,
    The UK is making good progress with gender issues , I see this as another step in the right direction but I fear not everyone will be able to take advantage of it .

    Natalie,
    I'm not sure if that will be one of the questions but I know what you mean .
    The real me , no going back.

  16. #16
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    I have been putting "other" down for some time now.

    Goes along with the question, Are you black, white or brindle? :-)
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  17. #17
    Platinum Member Shelly Preston's Avatar
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    That particular Census question is Voluntary

    There is also an option to write in your identity.

    So you could write in Non Binary.
    Shelly

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  18. #18
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Kaye,
    My point about delaying it is because the death rate is above normal parameters for modern times , maybe they should push it back later in the year when the figures level out .

    Shelly,
    As I've said it's an ideal time to truly assess the gender issue providing people are free to answer the question openly and honestly , we shouldn't be looking for ways to compromise the opportuntiy but sadly it looks like it's going to happen .
    The real me , no going back.

  19. #19
    Member Helena's Avatar
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    Like Kaye, I have worked on the Census, for the last 3 times.

    In no particular order

    Covid - The Government are obviously pushing online returns. If you post it back you won't meet anyone. It was only during the chase up that we had to visit people, and I imagine this year they may try that by phone?

    It is actually a good time because people aren't moving about, which can generate confusion.

    From memory there is no requirement to jointly fill it in. One person lists the household. So for those in difficult situations, volunteer to do this boring but necessary task.

    You could lie to your hearts content. Nobody will check, though I imagine some datasets such as school age children will be correlated with other sources?

    Funnily enough it is not about YOU. It is about what is happening in the general population. It is often speculated here, "how many of us are there?" This gives a chance at an idea and will help in the long term to formulate policy. The data is anonymised.

    It is a positive step forward.

  20. #20
    Member susanmichelle's Avatar
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    I wonder if they had a question for this? I might even be tri-sexual. I?ll try about anything once & more if I like it. LOL

  21. #21
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    I'm fairly certain that many of the questions in the UK census including gender and religion are not mandatory, so you would not risk a ?1000 fine if you weren't truthful or didn't answer them.

    In the census for 2001, many people put their religion as Other and then wrote Jedi. The idea was that if more than 100,000 people wrote in a religion that wasn't on the list, it would be added to the list next time.
    In 2011, it was not added to the list.

    Nobody got fined for writing Jedi.

  22. #22
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    HollyGreene,
    It's no good complaining that the government hasn't put certain things in place or they haven't changed direction in making provisions for the minority population if people write stupid answers . OK no one was fined as far as it's known but it also wasn't much help to anyone .

    Helena ,
    Many thanks for clearing a few points up .

    My main point really is being given the opportunity of being honest with our gender issues , that is assuming the government put all the proposals into practice afterwards .

    I know in your situation you would have no problems with ticking all the boxes as I don't but in some households it could cause problems if you're in a DADT situation , I know M has strong views on that subject .
    Last edited by Teresa; 02-28-2021 at 06:43 AM.
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  23. #23
    Aspiring Member jacques's Avatar
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    hello Kaygirl,
    "A census has been taken in England and Wales, and separately for Scotland, every ten years since 1801, with the exception of 1941. " source - the National Archive
    luv J

    [SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

    hello Helen,
    normally the "head of the household" completes the census form; but I think that with it being online this year individuals can opt to complete it for tmeselves.
    luv J

  24. #24
    Platinum Member Teresa's Avatar
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    Jacques,
    As far as I'm aware that is the plan this year , we should receive a password in the post so we can access the online census form . Whether that makes the issues I raised easier or harder for some I can't say . For those without access to the internet I would guess they will be able to still use the post .
    The real me , no going back.

  25. #25
    Silver Member Devi SM's Avatar
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    I'm not a UK citizen so my is just an opinion.

    If you're in the closet not needing goverment support the answer (if your SO is with you answering without knowing your "reality" so you're cheating on her) would be male and male gender.

    Now, if your wife knows about your gender conflicts why don't be honest with the goverment independently of you need or not their support.

    Here in the states Last year we had the census. I answered online as head of house but they didn't ask about gender just sex, male or female. My answer was male because my "sex" (genitals are masculine).

    Interestingly, for Christmas, one of my sons gave me 23andme as a gift. In the online profile I answer male as the sex.

    Weeks later I received an "urgent " email from them asking me to clarify my sex because there were traits tonthe female sex. I explained I'm a transwoman with male (after orchiectomy surgery) genitals.

    We're in a awakening world about gender issues.

    I'd love everybody could be honest but for the sake of the family lost and other fears everybody must answer the more "convenient".
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