Wife opened up

[confused_cathreen]

Let me make it clear: being in a public space showing off your underwear is illegal. It's called indecent exposure and you will be arrested. The law doesn't make distinctions between women, men or members of the LBGT community. I don't care if you think you look sexy. Your right for expression stops where my right for peace of mind begins. I really don't want to see anyone's underwear when I go shopping with my child. Is that too much to ask? I would have said the same if a GG walked around in the same outfit, or a GM for that matter. I cannot believe we need to spell out what "decency" means these days, in fear of offending those who believe that having standards means you are a bigot. Keep it indoors, people!

Maria, am I right in remembering posts of yours that mentioned you flashing your legs and the tops of your thigh highs to passing trucks while driving?

[Teresa]

Maria,
I can't help feeling you are gradually entering a DADT situation . I would say that incident may have gone deeper than she's letting on , she appears to be losing her trust in you .

The other lesson is secure your coffee better , I never drink coffee in the car when driving , because I know it's an accident wiating to happen . I recall when my father use to smoke in the car and dropped a lit cigarette between his legs , he had a burnt seal and trousers before he could safely pull over .

[Shelly Preston]

Maria,
Telling your wife what you wear and what you do will probably be the best solution.


I think we all know that not everyone is the same.

The vast majority of those who go out in public do not intend to upset anyone.

However some will cross the line particularly if they think they are not being watched.

Yes you will get the odd specialist event where things can get a bit more wild.

I think most wives would hope that their partner dressed and behaved in the best way for the occasion.

Some will say I want to look sexy. While that is understandable it does not always mean a short mini skirt for example.

[Maria 60]

My point to my wife was that at times we don't realize things could happen that even if we don't want to think it looks a curtain way, we could be looked at as my wife thought that guy was creepy. Trust me I'm not one who loves to show off private parts especially my rear end, I'm not going to lie also I do love showing off some extra leg when driving but my privates are hidden away. just like Cathreen said we don't want to see that and especially in public. I have no defence for that guy in the plaza, I agree a person can dress anyway they want but we must act presentable in public.
My wife stressed to me again all she said was for me not to go walking around factories or dead end streets in dark areas and hidding like im doing something wrong. When I'm out to act normal and not hidding and look creepy.

[Dutchess]

Let me make it clear: being in a public space showing off your underwear is illegal. It's called indecent exposure and you will be arrested.

This is the second time this ^^^ has been stated in this thread besides mine and its a shame the only two saying /thinking /UNDERSTANDING this are GG's. The above statement is real - think about it.

Maria, am I right in remembering posts of yours that mentioned you flashing your legs and the tops of your thigh highs to passing trucks while driving?

Yes and at restaurant somebody touched her legs WITH the wife there so I don't know what is what . Well I think I know what ...but still ....

[Beverley Sims]

Communication is good, but don't ask your wife's opinion about your appearance too often, she will let you know. :-)

[Mackem Sue]

My thoughts are there's a big difference between presenting en femme and going full on exhibitionist.

She's right in the creepy respect, plus there's a very strong element of attention seeking.

As much as I enjoy the dressing experience, do I want to make myself the centre of attention while doing so?

In normal life, if your going to find yourself in the crosshairs, it should be because you have a positive contribution to make.

The description you give of this person's behaviour is that of (apologies for the un-PC language)a tranny s*l*u*t.

If the transgender community want some sort of acceptance, the person you witnessed has contributed to putting the cause backwards rather than forwards.

Just my penny's worth.

Sue.

[Lori Ann Westlake]

Maria, I agree with Shelly: I hope you make it clear to your wife what you DO do when you go on these drives while dressed. Dirty heels and a refilled gas tank prove that you got out of the car at some point, but that's perfectly normal and there's nothing wrong with it.

It's unfortunate that your wife seemed a little suspicious when you told her about the problem with your dress flying up after that coffee spill. But hey, these things happen! To women as well. It would be quite appropriate to turn this around on your wife and ask her: "Well, what would YOU do in that windy situation? Can you give me any tips to stay dignified?"

As for truckers looking at your legs while you're driving, that's something you can't avoid, except by wearing pants. So why not enjoy it?

It would be nice to think, as Candy said, that the numbers of "good" crossdressers could wash out the "bad" ones n the public mind. It's just unfortunate that it's the creepy or otherwise outrageous ones, like that example in the parking lot, who stand out in the public mind, while the majority of crossdressers do their best to "blend in" or at least "behave normally" and are therefore far less visible, while others are hiding completely. No wonder it takes an effort to gain recognition.

Finally as a matter of interest:

Let me make it clear: being in a public space showing off your underwear is illegal. It's called indecent exposure and you will be arrested.

I couldn't help feeling curious about this question. The nagging thought kept occurring to me: "But is it illegal to walk down the street in a halter top and bikini? And does that cover up any more than ordinary underwear does? As long as nothing is actually exposed..." So I looked it up, and findlaw.com had this to say:

...flashing one's underwear, no matter how revealing or skimpy, is usually not considered indecent exposure for purposes of most states' laws.

There's more information on that here: What Do the Courts Consider in Indecent Exposure Cases? So those guys who wear their pants so low you can see the tops of their underwear can't be arrested for it either. Even if some of them ought to be!

And while that person's behavior in the parking lot was in appalling taste to say the least, and offensive to many, it probably wasn't illegal either. (And why do it outdoors at night? Maybe she had to change in the car?) Possibly if she'd hiked up her skirt deliberately right in front of someone, she might be charged with some kind of offensive behavior--or soliciting for the purpose of prostitution. Other than that, I expect she could get away with what she was doing--she was trying to avoid being seen, after all--and the law permits her to dress as trashy as she likes. If you're in Canada, as you may be, it looks to me as if Canadian law would also let her get away with what she did.

Still, we should count our blessings. If the law is permissive, it's a darn sight better than living in many more restrictive times and places. Including those countries where women get arrested and even whipped for wearing "too short" a skirt or even pants. Or in 1852, when Emma Snodgrass was arrested in Boston for daring to wear pants. Bearing in mind the floor-length skirts of those days. it's as if there were something "indecent" about revealing that women actually had two legs above their feet! Here's to freedom!

- "Liberty Lori"

[Star01]

Before I joined this forum in 2018 I thought that all crossdressers were like that and there was no such thing as a respectful crossdresser. I had only seen them in photo and video in the dark alleys of the internet and that is how my DADT wife views them.

I have never gone to the store, bank or anywhere in my small town and seen a legitimate crossdresser but could easily go on a hookup site and find someone nearby. Either the respectful crossdressers in my town are totally passable or they are driving down to the big city close to an hour from here.

The thing I find strange is the unfamiliarity of that lifestyle of many forum members. Based on what I am familiar with, and I am sex positive, there are many on here who almost seem unaware that this takes place but there are a lot of crossdressers that like to push the limits.

[Stephanie47]

I remember when I was a teenager being dragged down to the waterfront of Manhattan to see one of my mother's friends off to a trans-Atlantic trip on a ship. Now everyone takes a boring plane. Anyway, I was overlooking one of piers from the ship watching two couples; men and women. A gust of wind came up and whipped up the wide sweeping hem of the skirt of one woman's dress before she could grab it and hold it down. She had on sheer pantyhose and no panty. She was making no effort to being indecent. Stuff like that just happens. She also was not wearing a mini skirt. On the other hand, my brother during his college days as a young guy worked selling shoes at Macy's on Herald Square. It was the age of the mini skirt. He came home with stories of young women with actual intent of flashing their private areas with and without panties on. My brother was not one to lie about such things to me; a brother and not a group of envious immature teenagers.

When I go out en femme I make it a point to wear garments that will hide my maleness. I only wear dresses which are knee length. Many of them have wide sweeping hems so there is the possibility of a gust of wind playing with the dress and slip. On those strolls I do wear confining panty hose as opposed to garter stockings at home. And, I wear at least a light weight control brief under the pantyhose.

As to modesty I find it totally crazy that a woman will go totally nuts trying to conceal an unintended exposure of her panty with a gust of wind, but, go to the beach wearing a thong bikini outfit that exposes her entire ass except of its crack and a bikini top the size of a postage stamp. These scenes are not the exception. Heck, when the news is broadcasting from a lake side beach there are numerous high school girls with that sort of swim attire. As a teenager the only time I saw those displays was in Playboy.

I will go back to my original comment. IMHO, there is an issue of intent. If a MtF cross dresser thinks this is the proper image of a woman it contributes to society's ignorance of who the majority of us are. As to Maria allowing her dress to creep towards her torso while driving I am sure there are many views truck drivers get from women. If Maria or a woman does that with intent there can be the unwanted attention by a man that can cascade out of control.

It would be interesting to hear from the GG's on this thread what they told their daughter's when they were venturing out as young women. What decorum the moms expected of their daughters. I know what my wife told our daughter.

[char GG]

Stephanie,
In response to what mom's expected of/told their their teen daughters, I was very lucky. My daughter was a teen in the 90's; the style at school was jeans and oversized tee shirts. Although my daughter was tall, slim, and very pretty, she wore XL tee shirts as did all of her friends. She would never consider a bikini, only one piece bathing suits.

While shopping with her for a prom dress, it was almost impossible to find something that was acceptable to her. No bows, no sequins, no plunging necklines, no lace, no high slits in the side; ugh - many were very revealing which was not what she was looking for. (I thought I was going to have to get her a choir robe or something)

I know that all girls are different. However, it's my feeling that if a girl is confident in herself, she won't be prone to flashing her goodies around town. There are always exceptions but I feel very fortunate that she and her friends were in the "modest" category.

We live in a beach town and we've seen girls walking from the beach into town with their thong bikinis. Those girls just seems like to revert to attention seeking behavior and probably have poor self esteem.

So to answer your question, Stephanie, my job was easy. Her friends were all of a similar mindset so they policed themselves.

To carry this thought one step further, 14 year old my grand daughter and her friends are the same way. All are very confident young ladies and don't (so far) feel the need to flash the boys.

Backing up to my teen years, we were required to wear skirts to school when mini skirts were in fashion. The school policed the length of the skirts and sent girls home of their skirts didn't meet the standards set by the school policy. Probably some skirts showed too much when sitting.

In regards to skirts flying up in the wind, most GG's know wear straight or A-line shirts on windy days. No one wanted to have to hold their dresses down. Also, many people in the public eye (Princess Kate, Princes Di, the Queen), had weights sewed in the hems to keep the wind from causing their dresses to blow around in the wind.

My point is that no one has to have their dresses/skirts inadvertently flying up in the wind. My hubby has figured this out too.

[Dutchess]

I have a few things to say here ( as usual , I know )

But to Stephanie- we were all born and raised and continue to live at SOME sea . Born on the Gulf live on the Pacific and North Sea and we all are a big family of surfers . My youngest is still 19 and lives in West Hollywood and is a working actress so she sees everything . None of my girls or I nor my way out sister up in SF ever wore thongs . We see that as a sign of a tourist or someone wanting to show off something . I hear some say its comfortable but that would not be one of us . We all wear board shorts and a bikini top . OR board shorts and a rash guard . Even me .
We love T&C designs , O'neill , Hurley, Body Glove and the like . My gal in LA loves skater dresses but wears bike shorts or the like underneath , she calls them modesty shorts .
My other daughter is a funeral director in Corpus Christi so she wears pant suits and knee length dresses/ suits . On her off days she is more comfy in jeans or board shorts . I wear shifts or skater dresses also and if they are short enough I will have on bike shorts underneath .
We all love sequins or sparkle /glitter of some kind at this house but classic designs/lines . No excessive exposure, nothing more than a kick pleat . Even with strapless, nothing is plunging ,everything contained . No stilettos , in long evening dresses we all wear ballet (pink or black )slippers for safety . No one here wants to be thought of as "THAT " kind of girl . They self police .
Last October , I saw what appeared to be a Cd'er although could have been transwoman, late 50s to 60s in age , come into the grocery store wearing a one piece black PLUNGING halter top one piece bathing suit , no back , with shimmer panty hose and black heels on. I was actually afraid and stayed in the plant section until this person got in line to check out . No one wears things like that ever and there was alot showing and I was afraid . I didnt know if they thought they looked hotter than a rocket or if something were wrong . I just could not imagine what was going on in this persons mind .

@ Star , Oh they are aware , you know they know lol a few here will admit it. CL still has just tons of those listings , they just moved them to a different category . Thats how my ex finds his dates . I very recently even saw him advertising himself on FB in groups they have there now designed for just that also .

@Liberty Lori - The reason the GGs and others here caution against this behavior is because in reality that person actually has nothing on under that skirt or is hanging out of the underwear to varying degrees . Those types aren't going to be alone in the dark taking underwear pics . Come on .

[Lori Ann Westlake]

@Liberty Lori - The reason the GGs and others here caution against this behavior is because in reality that person actually has nothing on under that skirt or is hanging out of the underwear to varying degrees . Those types aren't going to be alone in the dark taking underwear pics . Come on .

Well, Dutchess, I confess it hadn't occurred to me that she might have left anything hanging out, since I'm not into "she-male" stuff myself. Come to that, most of us here must be keen to do the opposite. Why else is there a sticky titled The Art of Tucking? The whole point of crossdressing is to look feminine!

And "being alone in the dark taking underwear pics" was exactly what this person was doing at the time. But what you've suggested raises a nastier thought. I did wonder why she was doing this outdoors in the dark. When I wanted to take pictures of myself I'd mostly do it at home, in privacy. I was guessing she wasn't able to do that. That probably means a wife at home who doesn't know. Could be family or a roommate of course, but more likely a wife or partner. So go out in the evening in guy mode, change in the car, take pics, change back and drive home.

But what are the pictures for? When I take pictures they're mostly just for me, to see how I look. If this person is taking "that" kind of picture, that suggests a different purpose--"advertising for a partner." That means she's very likely cheating on her wife, and with other men, which is not nice at all. I just hope she's practicing "safe sex," otherwise her wife may get a nasty surprise one day.

Edited to add: I'm sorry, I gathered from your post that you may have had the same trouble with your ex. Not nice at all!

[Pumped]

I don't know about any of you, but I have seen just about everything a person can see in this world yet I have never ever seen a woman posing in lingerie outdoors in a public setting. Ever. Some people get a kick out of doing extreme things.

I have never seen a woman taking pictures of her scantily clad self, but there are plenty pictures all over the internet that proves many women do!

Just Google the word "exhibitionists" and you will get an eye full!

[Swottie]

It has to be said that cross dressers often do seemingly silly things that GG may only do at silly adolescent ages. All because a CD may just be catching up on the learning curve, learning how and what not to do after each mistake. It can be especially hard because we don't usually have the guidance and feedback from peers and older family members. This explains why we usually start by dressing completely inappropriately, because we just don't know any better and are still learning.

[Lori Ann Westlake]

That's an interesting thought, Swottie. I recall somebody saying (with sympathy) about transgendered people that "they never had a girlhood."

[BrendaPDX]

Hi All, A very interesting thread and replies. I am kind of like Doc, I might fall on the creepy side too, sometimes. I am not an "ambassador", and I have dressed a little naughty, but I stay inside when I do. I am fortunate that the general image I try to project is "the girl next door" look, especially when in public. However, I do have some outfits/clothes that I would never wear out in public, and I do have a few pictures of me wearing them. I never thought that the way I dress when En femme would be a representation of all cross dressers, like others I didn't even know there were so many of us. Just me. Brenda

[kimdl93]

Honestly, I can understand your wifes reactions to that person?s conduct. What a person does in private is their own business, but once in public, such conduct borders on exhibitionism, and unfortunately reinforces the worst stereotypes and reflects badly upon all of those who wish to present as women in public.

[ReineD]

It is a very windy night and when I was cleaning my seat I was struggling to keep my dress from flying up with the under current from the car. People were walking on the sidewalk and I'm more then sure I exposed my panties more then once.

Part of the art of dressing like a woman is knowing how to avoid wardrobe malfunctions. Maybe you could wear slightly longer dresses that cannot expose your underwear when there is a gust of wind? Or, maybe you could dress like the rest of us and wear pants?

As to the person you describe in your first post, I hate seeing CDers who behave this way. They give all CDers a bad name. If they want to expose themselves to take pictures, I don't see why they can't do so at home in front of a mirror. Unless they are exhibitionists, in which case this is more about the fetish.

My point to my wife was that at times we don't realize things could happen that even if we don't want to think it looks a curtain way,

Sorry Maria, but I'm calling you out on this one. I've worn dresses and skirts all my life and have avoided exposing my underwear. As mentioned, a big part of it is choosing the right dress and skirt to wear. Or wearing slacks. You can still be very stylish and feminine while wearing slacks.