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Thread: Sad day. A new beginning.

  1. #26
    Gold Member Alice Torn's Avatar
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    Tiffany, Just take it easy for a while and let go. She may realize that she was better off with you, and make a compromise, but if not, please don't be too tough on her or yourself, as we are all imperfect beings, and life is full of bumps in the road. I would not be looking to rebound in another person or relationship at all, except to vent. One day at a time, and easy does it.
    IT TAKES A REAL DRESS TO WEAR A MAN.

  2. #27
    Senior Member JocelynJames's Avatar
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    So sorry to read this , Tiffany. I often say I am so lucky as my wife accepts me. I hope this turns out well for you, whether it?s with her, somebody else, or you going it without a woman in your life for a bit. We?re all still here for you and you?re not th only one in your boat.
    If you only knew the power of the pink fog! ~Joss

  3. #28
    Weirdest woman ever! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Tiffany, I've been on this site a long time and have seen quite a few marriages fail. However, I have yet to hear of one failing for CDing alone!

    was your's a "perfect marriage" before she found out about your dressing? If not, maybe it was doomed to fail anyway?

    And, the fact it has now, may be a BLESSING in disguise!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  4. #29
    Member Lisa516's Avatar
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    A new beginning is right . Move forward an enjoy.....
    As many as 43 percent of all people with gender dysphoria attempt suicide in their lives. dont let yourself become part of that very tragic statistic.
    Balance-Dignity-Acceptance-Responsibility-

  5. #30
    Aspiring Shopaholic BTWimRobin's Avatar
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    Tiffany, I am so sorry you have to go through all this.
    - Robin


    Because life is too short not to.

  6. #31
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    Lori Ann,
    It really boils down to whether a wife /partner can live with CDing/TG issues or not , some see their value in their husband more than the value of what people think . We never fully know what the problems and objections are as each person is different and look for different values .

    You could say I'm lucky and unlucky in that I manged to keep contact with my close family and most of my friends despite the end on my marriage . To end a marriage that has stopped working is the most sensible and adult thing to do , to try and soldier on with compromises helps no one long term , I hope Tiffany discovers that so she can move on .

  7. #32
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    Don't feel too bad about others' claims of having supportive wives. I have been in the trans community a very long time. Seen a zillion broken marriages. The stats are grim, especially for a marriage where one transitions. Take any claim of having a "supportive spouse" with a major grain of salt.

  8. #33
    Member Lori Ann Westlake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vickie_CDTV View Post
    I have been in the trans community a very long time. Seen a zillion broken marriages. The stats are grim, especially for a marriage where one transitions. Take any claim of having a "supportive spouse" with a major grain of salt.
    I can certainly believe what you say, Vickie, but then there's a catch. It's called "sampling error." When you refer to the "trans community," I'm assuming--please correct me if I'm wrong!--that you're talking largely about people who are transgender, or at minimum are "out" socially as crossdressers and known to others in person.

    The way I see it, there are "stages" of crossdressing, depending on how far it goes. We may dress at home and never set foot outside the house. We may venture out just for fun, to "take the air" (so to speak), without really mixing with people. Even that can be troubling to a wife, who may worry about several things. "What if our friends and neighbors see my husband? What are they going to think of us--of me?" "Could my husband be seeking to cheat on me with male partners?" "How far is this transformation going to go? Could I be losing my 'man' altogether?" And so on.

    Then if the crossdresser has a separate social life, meeting people at gay bars and so on, that's a step further, and all of those worries may intensify. Finally, as you said, I would not expect many marriages to survive a partner transitioning full time, where the wife really does lose the image of the "man" she married.

    So if your statistics look grim, what this fails to take account of is whether your sample is representative of all crossdressers across the board. How many are completely closeted at home, or perhaps venture out once or twice "just for fun" or at Halloween, without ever joining any "community"? Except for an online one, which offers anonymity. And if crossdressing is limited in time and scope, it's more acceptable to a wife, who is not "losing her man" after all. I dare say a fair majority of crossdressers are not transgender to any extent, but if they're keeping a low profile they'll never appear in any stats. To my wife and myself, for instance, "Lori" is our little secret. And yes, I have walked out in public a few times, once or twice with my wife!--but that's it. So I wouldn't be entirely pessimistic about finding an accepting partner. They might be a minority, but they're out there, invisible much of the time. Tiffany does stand a chance of finding one.

  9. #34
    Princess Candice candykowal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lori Ann Westlake View Post
    Good observations, Candy!

    However, it's your observations about "accepting" wives and girlfriends that interested me especially. I may be biased since I'm lucky enough to have an accepting wife myself, but I wouldn't say they're so rare.....
    Are these accepting wives all "dependent"? That implies a degree of coercion:.....
    Are these wives "variant"? ...open minded willingness to experiment ... might be implied.
    "Less influenced by religion?" Yes, that's probably true....
    As for "having families who are like minded," .... But they have been "like minded" about the "family values" I cited above.
    ....I suppose in the end some of this "acceptance" boils down to being "independent thinkers," and who gives a damn what the rest of the world thinks?
    My wife and I always shared everything and took a natural interest in whatever one or the other of us was into. We can talk with one another about anything. That's a trait to look out for.
    I try to keep my thoughts pretty general, allowing the user to apply to their experience.
    Seem to me, Independent Thinkers is the way to be, if you can share and support each other natural interests.
    So many marry without that needed trait, I did.
    Sometimes we marry to take responsibility for a child on the way, for companionship when we grow old, for looks or sex, for money, because they know how to party.
    Thanks for your thoughts Lori Ann...
    Candice Coleen Kowal ....all my friends call me Candy!

  10. #35
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    Lori, you post "Lori is our little secret." That is one of the issues way back when my wife and I had "The Talk." That was circa 1983. She said she had nobody to talk to about my cross dressing. Yes, it became a shared secret. Given how oppressive society was back then towards gays and lesbians and cross dressers how was she going to "come out of the closet." She was (is) trapped in the same closet as me. We have settled since then into a very strong DADT so she probably would not want to engage anyone about it now. She is a very intelligent woman and has been able to figure me out. Since she had seen this site left open on our computer and made a comment, if she wanted to see what I and others are thinking, she could log on as a visitor.

    Lori, is correct about sampling errors because the participants on this site are not a true sample of any poll. Unfortunately, too many wives may have insufficient knowledge about cross dressing when they find out hubby likes to wear women's clothing and emulate a woman. That can start the downward slide with nothing to grab onto.

  11. #36
    Member Lori Ann Westlake's Avatar
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    Stephanie, yes, when a wife is troubled about a crossdressing husband, as your wife obviously has been, I'm sure it's problematic if there's no-one she can talk to without letting the secret out. Luckily this wasn't a problem with my own wife because she wasn't bothered by it and considered the whole thing "fun." But that's not true of all wives.

    Back in 1983 of course when you had "The Talk," there was no Web to go to for information. Still, it's just as well if a worried wife felt obliged to "keep the secret," since going to random people for advice was just as likely to get her bad information that would only worry her more and needlessly/ "Your husband must be gay," and the like. As Josh Billings reputedly said: "It ain't what you don't know. It's what you know that ain't so."

    Even the Web can be misleading. There's at least one member here whose wife joined this board for information and was promptly worried by the number of members who were transitioning--which her husband had no intention of doing.

    On the whole, I'd say books were the safest source of information, easily browsed in any library. Our vintage Britannica from decades ago at least points out that "transvestites" are generally heterosexual and, while some enjoy going out as women, do not seek (unlike the transsexual) to become female. Another book by a psychiatrist, first published (I believe) as far back as the early 1960s, had little to say about crossdressing per se, just a paragraph in a chapter on "fetishism," but did note that it was perfectly compatible with heterosexuality. It had nothing to say about transsexualism, since transgender phenomena were hardly on anyone's radar back thend. (Harry Benjamin published his seminal book on transsexuality in 1966.) At least that kind of information would hopefully be reassuring to a wife.

  12. #37
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    Sorry about your loss. I do believe that most wives would rather that their husband didn't CD. I told my wife before we were married. Over the years we have had discussions about my CDing. My wife has realized that neither of us are going to change.

  13. #38
    Junior Member Tiffany in heels's Avatar
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    Wow. Thank you all for your kind words. You don?t know how much I appreciate every since one of your replies and kindness. It would be too much to reply to everyone but let me try and answer a few that I read.

    Yes my wife was molested as a child. This plays a huge role in this as her step father (abuser) would wearing thongs and g strings and ask her what she thought about it and ask her to touch it. So yes me wearing a thing is a huge trigger for her. I do understand completely.

    My relationship with my daughter is good. We love each other and spend time together. Yes she is 11. I dont even remember saying that before but good read on your parts. My question about my daughter is what should she know? How much should I tell her? Yes some of it is sexual but I think I just feel better when wearing it so it puts me in a good place and since no one is home when I wear it, it?s a perfect time for me to get off. But again. How much should she know?

    I don?t want to date anyone else anytime soon. I think I?m better off alone anyway but I?ll try that for a bit.

    The state of our marriage was bad due to me lying. Lying about my clothes, wearing them. Where I was wearing them. Not being outright from the beginning and saying I would stop and not stop. It was more about lying. I can?t say it was purely about the cross dressing. We had other issues as well. Fixable I thought but with everything compounded, lying was the nail.

  14. #39
    Senior Member Pumped's Avatar
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    It doesn't help, but I wonder how many marriages are "on the rocks" any way, and the CD'ing just gives it that push over the edge. Many are clueless to how their spose is feeling and too involved it their own situation. I know in my situation my wife and I got along great before my CD'ing came out. It was a bit rocky for a while, but she learned I wasn't going any where and I was the same guy I always was, but I can see if she was dissatisfied it would have been the time to leave.

  15. #40
    Member CD Rachel's Avatar
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    Tiffany,

    I am so sorry that you are going through this. My wife called it quits back on December 4 last year. I too had lost my wife's trust. You will probably have some hard days in front of you so be sure to reach out to friends and family for support. I had to seek medical help for my depression and have also been seeing a therapist to help me to find my way back. I highly recommend the therapist if you need help moving forward. In time the pain will lessen and the clouds will begin to part. Remember there are people who love you and need you in their lives. Feel free to PM me if you need someone to talk to. I owe my life to a friend who would just listen when i needed to talk.

    Rachel
    Profile pic taken with Face App gender swap.

  16. #41
    Junior Member Sandra_Dodds's Avatar
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    I'm sorry to read about your marriage breaking down and hope that you can navigate a way forward by yourself and also as a father.

    You made a reference to cross-dressing being like a drug addiction and that is an accusation that my wife has thrown at me over the years. In her mind, there is some childhood trauma or experience that has led to my "addiction" to dressing like a female and it needs to be "cured". But then I read of so many similar experiences on here, where people started dressing early and having an innate sense of needing to dress and I think there's much more to it than that. Why is it, for example, when faced with the ultimatum of giving up dressing or losing our spouse - someone we love incredibly deeply; can we not do it? What is it that makes us come back to dressing time and again; knowing that we are risking everything by doings so? I don't know the answer but it has to be something more deep seated than just a learned response or an addiction.

    Again, sorry about your marriage.
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  17. #42
    Aspiring Member DianeT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiffany in heels View Post
    I love my wife. But she cannot accept me for who I am. And the lies of trying to hide everything is what made everything fall apart.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiffany in heels View Post
    The state of our marriage was bad due to me lying. Lying about my clothes, wearing them. Where I was wearing them. Not being outright from the beginning and saying I would stop and not stop. It was more about lying. I can?t say it was purely about the cross dressing. We had other issues as well. Fixable I thought but with everything compounded, lying was the nail.
    Hi Tiffany, you are pretty clear about what ended your marriage, the lying. This converges with most of what GGs here say, it's usually the loss of trust induced by the lying that is the deal breaker, and not the dressing itself.
    Last time you checked in here you said your wife told you it was okay if you dressed privately when she wasn't home, which is in my book the coolest version of DADT you can find. So during these 4 years until today, what was the lying exactly? Did she ask you to tell her when you dressed? When you bought things? If you wanted to go out? Since we don't know exactly what your DADT contract with your wife was and how the lying poisoned all, it is difficult to analyze your situation. But you sure should do it on your end if you love your wife. And if you can't tell what made it go south then maybe ask your wife. Because, although you say she's gone "for good", it's never over until it's actually over. If you love your wife, have at least this conversation. Needless to say, if you are lucky and she gives you another go, you probably will need to establish a very clear and thorough contract with her and make sure you fully abide by it. E.g. contrary to popular CDer belief, what was not discussed is usually (and very probably in your case) off the table until it has been explicitly covered; don't make promises you can't keep (such as the (in)famous "I can stop", which is like peace for Clint/Joe in "A fistful of dollars", something you've been told is a thing, but that you've never actually seen); be 100% honest (which means be prepared to tell a LOT about your intimate life). GGs consistently say that fear of the unknown is the worst for them. And that trust in the couple is paramount.
    Best luck to you both.

    -- EDIT --
    If your wife left you "for good" she probably did not decide it overnight, so it's a good idea to let her speak her mind, heart, soul first. She probably has a lot of thoughts to share with you that led to her decision, and the dressing may be just one thing among many others. You will presumably need to listen a lot and speak little in the first stage.
    Last edited by DianeT; 04-22-2021 at 01:15 PM.
    "There's one thing I don't understand. The thing that I don't understand is every [bleep]-ing thing about crossdressing." - The Blimey
    For those who consider telling their SOs, read this fine manual first: https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?13841-How-to-tell-your-partner

  18. #43
    Life is more fun in heels Genifer Teal's Avatar
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    Sorry for your loss. Even jerry seinfeld couldn't give something up for a relationship and it was only that silly voice.

  19. #44
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    Tiffany in heels, you ask how much should your daughter know? My wife and I have had conversations in the past about this. We have two kids, both of whom are still at home. We made a joint decision not to tell them, at least while they are at home. Our thoughts were that kids have a hard enough time as it is with the world these days that adding this secret they absolutely must keep is a heavy burden. We have always raised them to be accepting of people of any background, any presentation. You say your daughter is 11. Time flies. Soon, she will be an adult, and not burdened with the social insanity that is high school. Perhaps it can wait until then?

    As to dating; yeah I of course wouldn't recommend anyone who has recently ended a marriage to begin dating. But, the day will come when you're emotionally ready to do so. Some pennies to throw into that thought bucket... Before I met my wife, I'd been in a number of long term relationships. Among the women who knew about my enjoying wearing women's clothes, a couple of them were outright rejecting. Most were fairly on the fence, with one a bit more accepting. By the time I was back on the dating scene just before I met my now wife, I made a decision that I would not tolerate lack of acceptance. The most I would tolerate would be a woman who knew, but was not actively supporting nor hindering. I really wanted someone to be actively supportive. I just wasn't going to waste time on someone who couldn't accept all of me for me. Being TG is who we are. It's not something we can repress. Whether we are en femme or not, we are still who we are. We can't conveniently put that femme person aside, regardless of how we look on the outside. I vowed to find acceptance or stay single. So, a couple of months into my relationship with my wife, I told her while we were driving on a highway. She couldn't jump out of the car A day later, she bought me pantyhose. It was awesome that she did so, and every credit to her for it. I got this level of acceptance because I refused to accept anything less. I would encourage you to do the same.

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