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Thread: Have a good day SIR !

  1. #1
    Junior Member Brianne's Avatar
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    Have a good day SIR !

    So I?m out shopping in a very man in a dress mode. I?m completely underdressed, women?s beige shorts, white golf shirt, purple hoodie with white flower logo over left breast. I?m also sporting bracelets on both wrists, necklace, clip on earrings and carrying a handbag.
    I stop in Marshall?s where they have 2 women at the door I assume to count customers because of COVID. Nothing said on the way in but on the way out, one woman says loudly ?Have a good day,Sir? I replied equally loudly ? Thank You very much ?
    Driving away I thought to myself, I should have asked her why she said that since I was presenting more of a female style and she wasn?t using the correct noun or pronoun and being insensitive to a customer.
    What do you ladies think?

  2. #2
    Aspiring Member joank's Avatar
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    I had that happen in a Kmart with a SA years ago. I think it was just a reaction and nothing was meant by it. I just ignored the comment and kept on going,
    joank
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  3. #3
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    Brianne,

    The devil is in the detail or in cases like these the inflection. If every word is said without emphasis then it's difficult to know whether or not those speaking intended anything by it. On the other hand I've experience someone who said, "Thanks", (slightest of pauses) and then an emphasised, "Mate". It was an obvious dig. Thankfully experiences like that are extremely rare and while they can cut a little at the time we have to remember the problem is with them. They're the one's in the wrong. They're the bigot out of touch with a modern progressive society.
    Who dares wears Get in, get out without being noticed

  4. #4
    Junior Member Lori Anne's Avatar
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    Brianne, some time back, I had a similar situation. I was closely clean shaven; wearing bra (with enhancers in) and panties, women's lo-rise bell bottoms, woman's top, high heel boots, no makeup. I stopped by a local CVS to get a few things; and after ringing me out, the boy cashier snidely replied "Thank you, SIR." Being the smart ass that I am, I replied.....in my best "gay voice"..."You're very welcome, Sweety." and left. I don't know that that was the best thing I could have done, but I still giggle when I think about it.

  5. #5
    NEVER go bare-legged! Kimberly A.'s Avatar
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    Hi Brianne. I think that it was an honest mistake by the female door greeter, (or SA if that's how you want to refer to her)..... Perhaps a male had just left the store before you and she said to him, "Have a good day, sir"? Of course I don't know, cause I wasn't there. LOL But, there was a time or two when I was out en femme and could've SWORN someone addressed me as "sir", but 99.9% of the time, I get addressed as "ma'am". Also, I'm hard of hearing so maybe I've never heard anyone call me "sir" when I've been out en femme..... Could've just been my ears playing tricks on me with the noisy environement. LOL At that time though, I was inside a Golden Corral and it was kind of crowded, even AFTER the pandemic had begun, so it was kinda noisy in there. LOL

    Anyway, if you looked more like a woman than a man when you were at that store, I think the SA meant to address you as "ma'am", but it came out "sir" and maybe she realized her mistake later? Again, I don't know, just speculating.
    Last edited by Kimberly A.; 04-29-2021 at 02:44 PM.
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  6. #6
    Silver Member Micki_Finn's Avatar
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    I think if you’re going out in “hybrid” mode, you should expect that people will be confused on which pronouns to use. Just because YOU expect to be female gendered because you’re “more” fem than male doesn’t meant that everyone has the same expectations. Since we don’t walk around with our pronouns on our sleeves, you should be ready for confusion from strangers.

  7. #7
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    Brianne,
    The first point is however you are underdressed no one really is aware of it so it's irrelevant , so how appropriate was your outer wear , how many women did you see with a similar look ? Also consider sometimes if we try too hard it could make us stand out more .

    I found everyday takes as much if not more effort than dressing to the nines , I never skimp on applying makeup and always wear a wig , in three years of being full time I haven't had a single " SIR " . It still makes me smile that I was called madam twice when I rushed to the builder's merchant so I could finish fitting a new electric shower .

    If the comment upsets you maybe consider if your look is acceptable , what did the woman pick up on to make the comment ?
    Last edited by Teresa; 04-29-2021 at 03:06 PM.

  8. #8
    Silver Member Meghan4now's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Brianne;4518753]So I?m out shopping in a very man in a dress mode/QUOTE]
    You yourself identify that you are a Man In A Dress. Why would this response come as a surprise?
    Put on a Happy Face.

  9. #9
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    You described yourself as "...in a very man in a dress mode.", so the "sir" was appropriate, if a little pointed. If you had been making a serious effort to blend you might have had grounds to complain.
    "Being honest may not get you a lot of friends, but it will always get you the right ones."
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  10. #10
    Girl underconstruction Paulette's Avatar
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    Aunt Kelly has hit the nail o n the head. You said you were dressed as a man in a dress so your clothing was not the controlling factor. I often wear panties, bra, blouse and ladies shorts and shoes with no attempt be gendered as female. If someone genders me as female I say thank you if they gender be as a well dressed male I also say thank you.

    Ladies lets all give folks a pass if they accidentally misgender us. We are sometimes making it hard for folks to know pronoun they should use with out asking us.
    Just and older girl trying to experience all that life can bring.
    "Life is not a dress rehearsal"

  11. #11
    Weirdest woman ever! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Unlike many here, I own a mirror! So I know I am a man in a dress.

    When I'm out at vanilla venues dressed, (very rarely!), I expect good, polite, service from the SA's and wait staff. That DOESN'T mean I expect them to guess how I wish to be gendered!

    Call me anything but, "Bub, Dude, B---ch, or Hey u"!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  12. #12
    Member Lori Ann Westlake's Avatar
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    Sorry, Brianne, I'm afraid you need to get real! I'll grant you Helen Highwater's question: namely, did this woman emphasize the "Sir" in a way that signaled she was having a dig at you? But I'm betting that was not the case.

    Seriously, if you send out mixed signals you can only expect to confuse people about how to "gender" you. OK, so you're wearing a bunch of jewelry, bracelets, necklace, earrings and whatnot, and carrying a handbag. And wearing women's shorts--but men wear shorts too, not just cargo shorts but "running shorts." And a hoodie with a flower on it! So big hairy deal, Garfield! Men wear hoodies too! And golf shirts! Far more men than women play golf, so that if anything is a "male" clue.

    Feminine flower logos? How many "gender clues" do we have to drop before we tilt the balance of perception from "male" to "female"?

    Well, they say "girls will read boy books, but boys won't read girl books." And likewise, "women wear clothes with men's names on them (Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein, etc.) but men won't wear clothes with women's names on them. So "Liz Claiborne" has to be just plain "Claiborne," as though she were a man, to sell her designs to men. And while girls wear T-shirts with pictures of male rock stars, guys don't wear T-shirts with pictures of female rock stars. Or do they? And if they did, would they expect to be called "Ma'am" instead of "Sir" on that account? I don't think so! It's not enough of a clue. I have a T-shirt with a picture of "Den Lille Havfrue"--you know, Hans Christian Andersen's "Little Mermaid," whose statue stands in Copenhagen harbor--done in gold. I've worn it because she's beautiful, even if she wasn't a rock star, and frankly it is a touch of femininity on my part, Yet nobody called me "Ma'am" because I was proudly wearing a picture of a girl on my chest, nor would I expect them to.

    What was anyone to make of you? If you were wearing panties underneath it all, who could see them? I imagine your face at least would look masculine, if not your body. We can't hope to just toss on any old clothes, even with jewelry and a handbag, and be automatically perceived as female as a natural-born woman would be. If we're born looking masculine, even carrying ourselves that way, we have to work all the harder than any GG would to counter those masculine clues. Were you wearing a bra, presenting breasts? Where was your makeup to feminize your masculine face, your wig (or feminine hairstyle at least)? Legs and shoes: were they shapely and elegant?

    If all we do is drop enough "gender clues" to leave people confused, we can't blame them for failing to perceive our preferred gender. They may well go for what seems the safest option. Many ordinary men feel especially insulted by being characterized as "female." For all those women could tell, you might have been just a rather effeminate "gay guy," who would still prefer being addressed as "Sir." If the world will not adjust to us, we can only adjust to the world. If you really want to be called "Ma'am," you just have to work harder and cover the bases more completely, that's all.
    Last edited by Lori Ann Westlake; 04-29-2021 at 06:14 PM.

  13. #13
    Aspiring Member ShelbyDawn's Avatar
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    Her opinion of you is none of your business. You can choose to be offended or choose not to, which makes your day better?
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Pumped's Avatar
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    I agree with Micki and the others. You were not trying to pass, like you said, a man in a dress, so I would expect to be called sir. If you had on a wig and makeup and did a reasonable presentation as a woman, then I would wonder about the comment, but as a MIAD, sir fits!

  15. #15
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    They greet thousands of people every day and probably see more openly gay men than transfolk. In which case Sir would be appropriate and Ma'am might be insulting.

  16. #16
    Enby Member Krea's Avatar
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    Yes, there are two different issues here.
    One is that in gender-blurred presentation, even with genuine intentions, it can be difficult for people to know how to address you. As an enby i wouldn't ever be likely to get called ma'am, but i feel very uncomfortable being called sir. I would rather staff just didn't call me sir or madam.
    The other point is the tone in which the "Sir" was spoken. As Helen pointed out there is a huge difference between somebody politely calling you sir by genuine mistake, or deliberately misgendering you in an insolent tone of voice.
    One is an honest oversight, which many businesses are trying to reduce by training staff in diversity awareness. The other is a blatant transphobic insult, which ought to lead to disciplinary proceedings against the staff member concerned. Only Brianne knows how it actually sounded.
    Last edited by Krea; 04-30-2021 at 05:58 AM. Reason: Added comment for clarification.

  17. #17
    Reality Check Krisi's Avatar
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    If you go out dressed and people refer to you as "sir", it's a sign that you are not doing a very good job of disguising yourself as a female. It's not the other person's fault, they see a guy.

    It's time for you to take some photos or videos of yourself and study them to see how you can better pass yourself off as a woman,
    Krisi

  18. #18
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    Reading other replies I can see two questions raised , Krisi mentions the " Passing " question , the other problem is back to the NB situation , we all have the right to dress as we chose in the same way other people have the right to comments how they see it , I know I've made this comment before but I still find the NB / MIAD a confusing one for the public to understand , not to use MR/MS or MRS but THEM or THEY in the context of this thread . How can the security women at the door address you " Have a good day them, they ,it !! We expect them to be polite and respectful but we need to make it clearer how we expect to be addressed before we get heated about it .

  19. #19
    Senior Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    We can't expect everybody to read the message we think we are sending in a way that is consistent with what we think we are saying because they may not read what we think we are saying correctly. Especially if your appearance is a bit ambiguous. The fact is the number of men that can actually pass as women is rather low. Our conclusion as to what a person's appearance is saying is not always correct because our sense of the sex or the gender of a person is based on a great number of clues that can be very subtle. The Tells are always there and may even involve detection of an odor that you are not even aware you have that tells everybody who is sensitive to it who and what you really are. In fact, the person may not even be aware of such a subtle thing but the brain detects it loud and clear and reacts accordingly irrespective of what your consciousness thinks is the case. Pheromones are rarely even detected consciously, but they can have a huge impact on behavior. In other words, the world is a whole lot more complicated than we think it is.

    Correct nouns and pronouns depend upon a clear statement that you are absolutely this or that so they can say the right thing. Our perception of ourselves in the eyes of others may be entirely wrong because of the fact that you really cannot look at yourself as objectively as you can a pencil on a table.

    Tone of voice is very important in communication but a particular tone of voice may be produced because of factors other the perception of you in the way you intend it to be seen. The tone may not even be related to you but rather something else the person is thinking about at the moment. For me, if a person says something that seems a bit confrontational or a bit insulting I try not to bite as it may be baiting. I try to give a nice response or I just act like I didn't hear it. You never know exactly why a person says something in the way they say it. So don't presuppose and just be nice. If they are being confrontational, you being nice confuses them so they will pull back or recognize their error or something else that defuses the negative interaction. Just a smile can do it.

  20. #20
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    Get over it and live your life.

  21. #21
    Senior Member BrendaPDX's Avatar
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    I try not to worry about the little things. Too many good things in life to pay attention to.

  22. #22
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    You posted "So, I'm out shopping in a very man is a dress mode." If that means by your own admission you looked like a man wearing clothing and accessories usually worn by a female perhaps the woman defaulted to what perception of you was. I would agree with others that voice inflection would be the key to whether her words were intended to be a snide remark. In my area many stores have employees counting those going in and out to stay within the guidelines of covid. All of them say something entering and leaving.

  23. #23
    Lady By Choice Leslie Langford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micki_Finn View Post
    I think if you?re going out in ?hybrid? mode, you should expect that people will be confused on which pronouns to use. Just because YOU expect to be female gendered because you?re ?more? fem than male doesn?t meant that everyone has the same expectations. Since we don?t walk around with our pronouns on our sleeves, you should be ready for confusion from strangers.
    What Micki said.

    You clearly went out of your way to present in a manner that did not align with accepted societal expectations of gender-conforming clothing. I'm not say saying that I necessarily agree with those entrenched "norms", but that's still the reality in today's world. You knowingly dressed in a manner that was sure to elicit reactions of one type of another and that is exactly what happened. In your case, that turned out to be a negative one.

    Kind of hard to claim "victimhood" here when you were the author of your own misfortune, even if it was only in part. Most of us who go out in public dress in full female garb to either "pass" or "blend in" with the GG's out there, and without looking to drive a particular agenda. Had you been mis-gendered in either of these modes, you would have had my sympathy as that would have been a huge disappointment to you. As it is...fairly or not...you played a large part in bringing this negative outcome upon yourself, so put on your big girl panties and chalk it up to experience for the next time.

  24. #24
    Administrator Di's Avatar
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    Could be
    They were confused
    They have to give a greeting thousands of times a day and an accident
    Or they were being rude and if that is the case it says more about them than you.
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  25. #25
    Member Lori Ann Westlake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teresa View Post
    How can the security women at the door address you " Have a good day them, they ,it !!
    How indeed! If staff members find themselves genuinely confused, I suggest dropping the "Sir" or "Ma'am" altogether. "Have a good day" will do.

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