Came out this morning to find my wife wearing my pullover. No thought of it being wierd, just was comfy and handy. I thought, if I had on her bra or body suit, there would be a BIG discussion.
So WHY the difference? The only thing it can be is that our society looks at the feminine as somehow "Less"
Woman dresses like man? Upgrade.
Man dress like woman? Downgrade.
Why would you want to be societally LESS.
If I am cold in my home and there is some type of warm garment within arms reach it?s going to get worn by me. Concerns about whatever gender the garment represents will be ignored so long as it provides the desired warmth. There is a point in my quest for personal comfort where I just don?t care when in the privacy of my own home. Warmth and comfort win out every time.
You are quite correct about society viewing women as lesser. Our society has been that way for hundreds of years, even at least a few thousand years. But that is not the case everywhere. There are in fact a lot of matriarchal societies where women are the Deciders and men are expected to comply. Interestingly, when women are accepted as the leaders and policy makers the culture tends to lean toward the peaceful kind while when men are in charge the society can trend toward the more combative.
For me, the reason I would want to be socially "LESS" is to wake up the men and let them see that women are not less or more, but equal to men. Unfortunately, I am not actually a woman but whether I am in male or female attire or my normal blended attire it makes me feel good that I am supporting the efforts women are making to break every glass ceiling they can find. And a lot of women recognize my mission and appreciate it, but the more traditional women who think being LESS is natural are often offended by my supporting the liberated women. Such is life in changing times.
It's true and has always been true for as long as I can remember.
A woman in her man's shirt and a pair of panties? Sexy as all heck. A man in a negligee? Disgusting. It's a sickening paradox, and one taught by our society. We're not born with it.
I hate that people think like that. It's like if a woman wears a flannel shirt, jeans and workboots, people don't give it a second though, but if men wear something feminine people have a problem with it. Not fair.
I have to admit that there is a difference in society.
Women wear "boyfriend jeans" but if we wear "girlfriend jeans" it's OMG. Women wear their guys shirts all the time but if someone sees you with a blouse or just a shirt with buttons on the "wrong" side then it's a big deal.
Thankfully that's not the case in our home. We share tops and shoes and hosiery of all types. We share makeup and style tips. Whatever fits or works for both belongs to both and it's wonderful to have that freedom and sharing as girl friends.
I don't wear women's clothes, I wear MY clothes !
Humans r creatures of habit. They're r used to seeing women in men's things.
But, they r SHOCKED seeing men in women's things!
And, USA men feel threatened by that somehow?!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
It's the societal norms and expectations again! I don't necessarily agree "our society looks at the feminine as somehow "less."" Are you discussing what women wear and men wear? Or, the role and worth placed on females in our society? Big difference.
Over the years the females in my family have worn male attire for various reasons. My daughter wore men's shoes for their durability and comfort at her work place. She also wore men's jeans because men's jeans HAVE pockets. She only carried a slim wallet with her driver's license and credit card. That was the same complaint by my wife. My wife borrows and buys graphic tees shirts off the men's rack because the "female cut" does not fit her properly. My granddaughter raided my flannel shirts because it was "the thing." She also bought young men's jeans off the rack at thrift stores because she has a "skinny butt" and those jeans fit better and off course they are cheaper than female jeans. It seems women always get charged more for clothing comparable to men's.
So, what happens when a female dons male attire? Does she try to emulate a man? Does she slap a fake beard or mustache onto her face. Does she slip a pork sausage down her pants leg? Maybe a twelve inch pork sausage?
My wife asked me during "The Talk;" "Why would a man wear a bra when he has nothing to pack into it?" Valid question. If it was just the clothes, why the wig? Why the makeup? Why the breast and hips and thigh enhancements?
If a guy wants to emulate a women and show up at his job site en femme is he willing to be 72% of his worth? Probably not because his desire to emulate a woman does not go that far. Certain men of the male species do not want to relinquish their status. However, given the "desirable" female human form and the desire to play on a male's apparent weakness she can get anything and everything. Many times a male thinks with the wrong head with a one track mind.
From what I see women are increasingly breaking the chains of bondage. There are more and more women entering many fields of STEM and medicine. Better watch out because soon it may be men are going to be directed only towards jobs demanding physical labor.
Professionally, I have worked along side and across the table with many assertive strong women who were definitely very feminine, whether in a dress or male looking pants.
That has always been biggest gripe and source of confusion. Society/family says the male is strong, dominant, protector, etc. etc. etc. Not only that, they can only wear neutral colors, muted prints, cotton, polyester and the such. However if you wear silk, nylon, rayon, anything soft, or loud prints, pinks, or purples, your "gay", sissy, effeminate,or "less of a *man*"! Yet woman can wear hair up, husbands baseball cap, tank top cotton *boy shorts*, and men's basketball shorts, etc; and it's *cute and comfy*!!! However as a man in Society.....I am expected to be above conflict and stress, a leader, etc.....and then go home, put on the stained tank top and skid marked boxers, sit in the recliner watching sports center and drinking till I pass out. However if I go home, *slip on something more comfortable*, and be compaasionate, and caring about her day*she has just as much stress and hours)cook for my wife, I', a sissy, gay, effeminate, or less of a man or provider!
While I see and agree with your stance and double standard.....something else you making consider is *sharing*. Especially with or without crossdressing some women can feel they are pressured into a decision or their privacy/personal space has been violated. My wife has known since out first physical date/meeting and she was 100% fine with it. Yet early on noticed some disconnect while sharing, which only increased my hatred, self doubt and guilt. However as soon as I got my own stuff everything changed and progressed RAPIDLY!!!! I haven't worn make-up in 3+ years because of the disconnect and insecurity. Thursday I bought my own make-up....and had make-up and dressed while cooking dinner when she arrived. I was greeted in a passionate way.... as soon as we released the embrace, she immediately condensed and cleaned out her make-up bag and gave it to me. "now that you FINALLY have your own make up, you'll need this....by the way...I have new brushes, so you can have my old." "if you have any questions or want tips and tricks let me know." Not only that, but she planned a *date day* for BOTH of us! We went to lunch, Ulta for make up for both, Torrid for sexy underwear, and old navy for frumpy feminine house clothes. No luck at Old navy which ended up in men's clothes and instantly got disinterested. But we had a GREAT time and was on cloud 9! I thought we couldn't get closer for 17 years, but the past 3 months proved me wrong!!!
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I have found in my 49 years of misery, guilt and self doubt.....The bigger the problem they have with it, the more JEALOUS they are!!! They have the same questions, shame, self doubt as you, yet jelous YOU are fine with it, but they can't!Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
Humans r creatures of habit. They're r used to seeing women in men's things.
But, they r SHOCKED seeing men in women's things!
And, USA men feel threatened by that somehow?!
Nothing sexy about a pullover! If there were then there would be an issue! But everything sexy about female lingerie! So get womens lingerie removed from the sexy list and everyone can wear anything! But then again if it is not sexy then who is going to want to wear it? Lol.
I think it may be at its core, just the fear of change. I have heard so many seniors in my younger days, talk about how strong the matriarchs of their families were, and that was deemed ok. Women were "allowed" to be strong, as long as it was in the or around the home. Men were "allowed" to show weakness, though you didn't discuss such things, when they were alone with their wives. Out in public, men were strong (think of The Godfather, "You can be a man!"), and women were soft and pretty. The clothing reflects those roles. In admitting that we like the soft and pretty clothing, we are seen as taking the soft and pretty role, and that breeds fear and misunderstanding. It doesn't matter that you spent 7 years in the Army, grew up on a farm, or have done back breaking work for 20 years. You're wearing a dress, makeup, and heels. Our comfortability scares them because they can no longer define us by their societal norms. We do all the things men do, just sometimes in a dress. And if we can do that, then maybe, so can women.
Sabine, your upgrade/downgrade explanation is one sociologists like my wife give also. But Stephanie47 touches in my opinion a very important point: most of crossdressers don't just want to wear female clothes. They want to emulate women (whether in figure, postures, gestures, etc.). So the discussion is skewed from the beginning. You seem to pretend that it's the same thing for your wife to wear your pullover and yourself a bra and bodysuit. Well, pullovers are worn by both genders anyway. On the other hand, if you don't have boobs, what's the bra for? Let's be honest. As crossdressers, many of us (granted, not all) love to wear female stuff because it's sending female cues, not just because they are clothes we find comfortable (a bra is absolutely NOT comfortable compared to no bra). My wife wouldn't be uneasy if I just borrowed a pullover from hers. But wig, makeup, hip forms, nylons etc? It's not just clothes anymore and she knows it, and I know it.
What we call "crossdressing" isn't just wearing clothes from the other gender. It is an experience deeper than that. At least judging by the posts in these forums. Women wearing their husband's stuff don't crossdress (at least not the ones I know). My wife wearing my pullover, she just wants to be comfy. But me, if I was to wear hers, it would send me a little more vibes than just being warm.
Last edited by DianeT; 05-18-2021 at 09:33 AM.
"So, I'm a crossdresser. Mmh. What's that thing, again?"
Considering telling your SO? Read this fine manual first: https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?13841-How-to-tell-your-partner
I think your views are accurate but I dress for comfort and warmth, having all female clothing I have little time to find a mans bulky knit jumper.
Yes it would look cute on me but I would still be seen as female.
Work on your elegance,
and beauty will follow.
Part of it I think is ingrained into us, if not genetically, then socially. Women depend on men for protection. When they see us emulating a woman, perhaps that signals to them that we might not defend them should someone attack them or their children (if they have them). So any indication that we aren't 'all man' macho guys might make them feel vulnerable. Same with other men; we depend on each other to step in, in multi person altercations, and defend the 'right side' of the fight.
In war, soldiers depend upon each other for holding up their end of the line of battle, and any suggestion that a man might not be 'man enough' to hold up his responsibility to the rest, might make the rest question his masculinity, and perhaps see him as a potential 'weak link' among the group.
And, of course, the old homophobia, where they think 'gee, if HE can be turned into a fairy, IT COULD HAPPEN TO ME! AHHHHHHHH!
Because, of course, all of us, straight, TG, TS, gay, or any of the non perfectly straight as an arrow folks, have had feelings that are traditionally supposedly reserved to women, so when one of those macho men feels one of those emotions, it might set a fear into him that maybe, just maybe, he might not be the all macho male that he feels he needs to be. So he gets mad at any guy who presents as 'not all male' because it angers him that he, too, might not be 'all male'.
I've known lots of guys like that. It's almost kind of amusing when they go off on how perfectly straight they are, whenever someone of gender bending groups show up in their presence.
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
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