My experience 7 years after beginning dressing

[pob]

I thought it would be interesting to do a post about my experience over the last 7 years after fully beginning dressing (or cross-dressing as much and as long as I wanted)

I see a lot of confusion about what will happen after you begin to dress, by that I mean one of the replies to my first post here said "You'll change when the Pink Fog finds you" in response to me describing my incomplete/miad style dressing. I think there is an idea going around that there is a ladder to dressing, with fetish dressing on one end and transgender on the other, like there is some sort of progression to be made or like any one kind of dressing is better than any other, obviously not a great idea and hasn't been my experience at all.

I started dressing in mid 2015 at 30yo, before this point I had just fantasized and "borrowed" some items here and there when the chance presented itself. I accepted I had a dressing fetish but it would go in the embarrassing column on my small list of fetishes and I would have been happy to erase it if possible. At this point I did already consider fetishes to be normal and healthy so then I thought like -lets just dive in the deep end and see what happens. So I began buying my own clothes and just allowing myself to experiment.

So the first 4 years were great, I had a new fetish that I could indulge during any personal pleasure time and it became a healthy part of my routine, maybe I'm lucky that I was in a mental place where I was able to do this without any sense of regret/guilt/shame, I have never felt bad about my dressing since I started. It was over this 4 years that I started noticing the feelings beyond the fetishistic pleasure, I found that I would stay dressed afterwards for surprisingly long periods because of strong positive feelings, calmness, contentment, relaxation and some other feelings I couldn't identify. As time past I found myself prioritising those positive feelings over the sexual pleasure, I could just spend the evening dressed and relaxing, so that's weird I thought, then I got very curious and started researching.

So I read everything I could find on crossdressing, transgenderism, fetishism/paraphilias, etc and honestly it was pretty unhelpful, most writings on crossdressing just refer to connected paraphilia and that research/science is super out of date and mostly likely just plain wrong, the writings on transgenderism were obviously much more current but still only helpful to the point of me determining that I am not trans. At this point I needed to hear from other crossdressers so I started checking discussion boards such as this one This was more helpful but I was craving a more scientific explanation of what I was feeling and nobody seemed to have the answers. I had identified the positive feelings as a sort of general feminine feeling and for while that was good enough for me. Around this time I also changed how I was dressing as a man day to day, I bought brighter clothes, statement pieces and was generally more adventurous with my man clothes, I changed up my whole wardrobe to see if I could effect those positive dressing feelings, it wasn't the same but it felt significant and you definitely could not describe my man clothes as drab anymore.

Then Covid happened and I found myself with a lot more time to consider my crossdressing and these feminine feelings that I was dipping into on a regular basis. I still had more questions, why does dressing in items of women's clothing give me such significant positive feelings when I don't consider myself as a woman when dressed and when even the idea of women's/female clothing itself is only a social construct? this ties in a bit to the trans debate question of what even is a woman? Current research suggests that its not clothes, behaviour or biology but a brain state (not a brain type) that is mostly but not entirely correlated to the the female sex, ok so is that what's happening with me, nope, while the only way to check this would be with a brain scan, evidence suggest if this was the case I?d always have considered myself as a girl and I definitely identify as a man, so back to square one.

The next thing I looked into turned out to be of key importance, next I looked into masculine and feminine expression in men and women. So men and women both have masculine and feminine traits (the categories are largely a social construct as well but its not relevant to the point) and these traits can be more or less significant from person to person and can be repressed by social expectations and conditions. ok I think this might be it, like most men I grew up being told for example that boys don't cry, any softness from boys in school is quickly ridiculed and after thinking about it I definitely grew up with having to modify my behaviour to be more manly.

So I?ve got my what -

- Dressing in items of women's clothing gives me significant positive feelings of well-being unrelated to my gender identity.

and a possible why -

- Some of my core mental traits are in the feminine category and they have been repressed by social factors.

and the how -

- I associate women's clothing with permission to express thoughts and behaviours I have repressed in order to be more manly and meet others expectations.

If this is what's going on is there a solution? The goal here was to be more true to myself, to be fully all of me all of the time, not to stop my dressing, I love my heels too much for that ;P So I have been actively trying to reintegrate my masculine and feminine mind for just under a year now, for example I give myself permission to be more sensitive and more vulnerable in my interactions, I communicate more clearly about my feelings when they have been hurt, I wont suppress the need to cry anymore and I allow myself to feel pretty and cute even when not dressed (you don't need to be dressed in anything for this, these feelings are more of a mental state). I am also pushing the limits more with my man mode fashion, I dress to stand out (not all of the time) and I am more comfortable wearing androgynous pieces, I think people notice when I walk into the room now (which Is not always great, I have a bit of social anxiety)

So what was the result of these efforts. I feel more mentally and emotionally solid that I ever have and I feel like I know who I am more, that being a feminine leaning man. Women are complementing my clothes in man mode now, so that's fun I should say my sexuality is straight/heteroflexible.

While I am going to buy more women's clothes and I intend to continue dressing as much as I want, I would say the amount that I have the desire to dress has significantly reduced and what I get out of dressing has changed, Its less of a need to relax/feel feminine and more wanting to play with women's fashion and wear cute things. Hopefully there is a point in the future when I will be able to wear whatever I want out and about without stares, judgement or assumption (I'm in London by the way) but I'm in a good place right now.

So that's where I am right now and overall I'm pretty happy I hope someone finds this helpful, its the sort of thing I wanted to read when I found this forum. I?d love to hear any input/comments anyone has about my thoughts/experience.

[Heather76]

I found your post quite interesting. I'm not a particularly introspective person; so, I don't generally question the how, what, and why of what I do. However, your journey trying to discover some answers is interesting. I'm in the midst of trying to discover some answers for my wife so she can more easily understand what is taking place with her "he-man, freedom fighting, old geezer of a husband." I can very well identify with the suppression of my gentler side for so many years in order to appear 100% masculine. Since I have gotten more and more into crossdressing, I have also started to let my guard down to the point I'm not embarrassed to shed a tear or two now and then. When I first started CDing 20 months ago at age 74, I thought there might well be some sexual gratification involved. WRONG!!! There was absolutely none. All I feel is a sense of peace, calm, and relaxation as well as being willing to show my softer side.

Thanks for your post.

[MonicaPVD]

Congratulations!

...this ties in a bit to the trans debate question of what even is a woman? Current research suggests that its not clothes, behaviour or biology but a brain state (not a brain type) that is mostly but not entirely correlated to the the female sex.

Pro tip. Never repeat the above attempt at mamsplanation in front of a ciswoman. 😂

[Gillian Gigs]

Quote; 'The goal here was to be more true to myself, to be fully all of me all of the time, not to stop my dressing'. To thine own self be true. I agree with you, my goal is to be the same person anywhere I am. The problem is that social conditioning has been working on us since birth. Women in the western culture have received a reasonable degree of emancipation, but men haven't. We continually read about the CD'er saying that women get to wear mens clothes, but the reverse is not true. Can you dress like a woman, but still be a man? TG'ers/ TS'ers seem to be saying that it is all or nothing, but why not be free to just wear what one wants. I love lingerie, skirts and hosiery, wearing these items makes me feel good also. The more I wear them the less I feel it is feminine, but just me. What's wrong with that?

Quote; 'I have been actively trying to reintegrate my masculine and feminine mind', again the social culture we live in doesn't like the concept of grey shades, just black and white. Mankind has never lived in the extremes of thinking until now, outside of sex. It seems like the middle ground is disappearing at the same time that men are getting emancipated! We all need to be colour blind and fashion blind, only seeing people, just people.

Thanks for the input.

[DianeT]

I was able to do this without any sense of regret/guilt/shame, I have never felt bad about my dressing since I started. It was over this 4 years that I started noticing the feelings beyond the fetishistic pleasure, I found that I would stay dressed afterwards for surprisingly long periods because of strong positive feelings, calmness, contentment, relaxation and some other feelings I couldn't identify. As time past I found myself prioritising those positive feelings over the sexual pleasure, I could just spend the evening dressed and relaxing, so that's weird I thought, then I got very curious and started researching.

I followed quite a similar evolution.

[...] what even is a woman? Current research suggests that its not clothes, behaviour or biology but a brain state (not a brain type) that is mostly but not entirely correlated to the the female sex

I concur that being a female makes you a woman, in the biological sense. But that the female sex would mostly determine your brain state? What are the current research articles about this?

[pob]

I followed quite a similar evolution.

Cool

But that the female sex would mostly determine your brain state? What are the current research articles about this?

Current research suggests that its not clothes, behaviour or biology but a brain state (not a brain type)

Here's a study regarding that - https://academic.oup.com/cercor/arti.../8/1900/285954
It would be more accurate to say that there is no such thing as a male or female brain, only a human brain, then the plastic nature of the brain conforms to brain states over time which changes the structure in a way that can be observed and compared.
I am far from an expert on this, I would welcome any input, I find the subject fascinating.

...that is mostly but not entirely correlated to the the female sex

This was an inductive inference based on the fact that transgenderism is a relative minority of the human population, more simply most bio males develop the brain structure of a man and most bio females develop the brain structure of a woman.
Also "man brain structure" and "woman brain structure" are just subjective terms that we have labelled for simplicity, gender is still a social construct.

This is so complicated :P you can kinda see why people are always arguing about trans stuff

[Maid_Marion]

I've found my social skills are considerably better presenting as a women. They are intuitive to the point in which I'll realize what I've done after I've done interacting with someone.

My driving has improved as well, as I have much more confidence interacting with other drivers.

Marion

[jaquie]

Thank you I enjoyed your reflections.
Your three What's come very close to how I feel about my own personal journey.
Probably most of us reject the harshness of masculinity. I am involved in many macho things and groups and I do enjoy them but frequently I can't wait to get back to being a girl.
Our propensity to dress/act as women is spurned by most and I hear slurs and put downs all the time. Yet when out and about I am very well recieved...almost a novelty, it is like being a celebrity. So many mixed thoughts and emotions and crossdressing is an outward expression of these. Plus I love clicking around in high heels

[GretchenM]

Pob, that is one of the best posts I have seen in a long time. And there is so much truth in what you say. Your path has a lot of similarities to my own since I came out in August 2012 and had to face the fact that I am, to a considerable extent, female-like in so many ways, but I always repressed it as I had this idea that it was either/or and the in between or blended state was unnatural. That does not mean I am not also male-like because I am. In fact, it now appears that is the natural state for virtually everyone. It is simply a matter of degrees in world where there are no ideal states.

I strongly recommend you find a copy of "The Gender Mosaic" by Dr Daphna Joel. Her research into the neuroscience of gender and its formation in the brain for almost the last 30 years has found a great deal of truth in what you have discovered about yourself. I think it might help you congeal your thinking because, according to her studies your perceptions are on the right track.

In a nutshell, there are a few structures in our brains that contain a vast neural network that generate the gender oriented behaviors that we all exhibit. There is no such thing as a male brain or a female brain; there are just brains. One of the most important aspects of this is the role of brain plasticity, a characteristic that is often ignored in much of the popular literature even though brain plasticity is one of the core concepts of neuroscience.

Our brains are highly adaptive within a genetically determined general framework that sets very general boundaries but allows reconfiguration to fit the patterns of perception we encounter in our lives. Without brain plasticity we would be unable to learn anything beyond what we initially received from the genes that form the brain. We would not even have the intelligence of a frog or a fish. Even very primitive creatures like protozoans without brains can learn and adapt in ways that allow them to find food with glimmers of "intentional" motion. Even the spinning around exhibited by some bacteria is a method of testing for chemical clues that indicate the presence of food. When detected they reverse their flagellum motion and follow the trail to food they need to survive. Fundamentally the same behavior that we exhibit when walking down the street we smell the hint of food aromas in the air and we follow the trail until we find the pastry shop for a goody or a restaurant with very fragrant food, meanwhile sensing a bit of hunger.

Other research has found that potentially 1/7 of our entire genome is dedicated to generating the brain structures that support our behavior and possibly create the vast flexibility in gender behavior humans exhibit to the extent that everyone is unique in terms of gender. Our perception of male and female gender being binary is probably nothing more than not looking close enough to see the uniqueness of everyone. In other words, sort of like concluding what kind of book it is by looking at its cover and reading the comments and endorsements on the back, but never getting around to actually reading the book. Now science is digging deep and finding the source of our behavior and it is a bit like nailing jello to the wall. Neural nets can quickly change their configurations from female-like to male-like and back again as the need arises. But it all occurs with a goal of making us gently settle into a state where our entire sense of self becomes comfortable and make the endorphins flow to reward us for finding the sweet spot at this time. But tomorrow it may shift a bit to another place and our neural nets just shift through brain plasticity to find that spot again.

In my opinion, as a person extensively trained in the sciences who has studied the science of gender, you are very much on the right track. Recent studies published in peer reviewed journals have revealed a good deal more about how gender forms and operates, but, oh my, are they difficult to read even for someone well trained in the sciences. Dr. Joel is really on to something. Her book is not some technical scientific treatise, but is a very readable explanation written to be read by most anyone. And if you want to dig deeper there is a very good bibliography.

Has she found the answer? Not even close, but it moves the thinking about gender behavior beyond the static simplicity of the gender binary concept that froze the gender concept world into a fixed format for hundreds of years and created so much prejudice, discrimination and pain for nearly everyone into a world where we all exhibit and can move about in a world with a vast amount of freedom within a realm with very fuzzy boundaries. It is not perfectly flexible, but close to it.

[Pumped]

For years it was all decided by the X and Y chromosome, but there has been more research into DNA that claims evidence of more DNA markers that make us male or female, but these markers are not solidly connected to the X and Y, so it explains some of the gender fluidity. so you can be male or female and the other DNA markers lean you towards the opposite gender.

Plus add the environment in which you grew up. A strong or weak male of female figure, abusive parents or other family members and more add to your mental well being and greatly influence how you turn out. My dad was a decent male roll model, but he was not around much. He worked full time and farmed. so he was doing one or the other, then my parents got divorced when I was in my early teens. I was a mess at the time and God only knows how it affected me.

[pob]

Thanks for the input and book recommend Gretchen

So I got a digital copy and went ahead and read it I can give you some thoughts.

Was bit of a novelty to read a book that almost entirely agrees with me :P strong evidence I'm doing my research correctly.

The brain mosaic charts were interesting, I hadn't seen them before.

Here's a thought from the book I hadn't considered - "Knowing someone's sex is not informative in determining their brain structure but knowing their brain structure is informative in determining their sex"

My favourite quote -

To the many arguments over whether women and men are the same or different, I say: they are neither. We are all different. Each one of us is a unique mosaic of features. The fact that some of these features are more common in females and others more common in males is irrelevant to who we are.

I normally avoid reading books like this, the facts are often dressed up in too much conjecture, but as I came to similar thoughts separately I can also recommend "Gender Mosaic: Beyond the Myth of the Male and Female Brain" to anyone who is interested.

Also the book references a BBC series that I actually watched at the time, if anyone wants to see it you can watch it on YouTube for free, its called - "No More Boys and Girls: Can Our Kids Go Gender Free?"

[mbmeen12]

I had to Google "mamsplanation"...

I feel more mentally and emotionally solid that I ever have and I feel like I know who I am more, that being a feminine leaning man.

Good for you pob.....

[julia.bowie]

Thanks for your detailed post, which I enjoyed. I see it all the time on crossdressing websites and forums in which people state "...my feminine side...". I've always found this fascinating. So, I slip into a dress and suddenly my feminine side emerges as though out of fog! Everyone's different and different people get different things out of crossdressing but for me I view myself as the classic crossdresser in that it's the clothes that do it for me. I'm a heterosexual male who has no interest in looking or behaving like a woman, and I don't want to be a woman, non-binary or undergo a transition, and all the rest. I simply like wearing what has traditionally and still is referred to as women's clothes.

And here is the root of the issue. Let's say that suddenly all of the "men's clothing" and "women's clothing" labels are dropped and clothes are just clothes. Strictly speaking crossdressing would vanish. And so then when I don a different set of clothes I suddenly start feeling all feminine? As I say, it's a comment I see all the time and have always struggled with because it just doesn't relate to me and I've been crossdressing since my teens and more seriously for the past 20 years. For me, crossdressing is simple and no big deal and why I don't endlessly self-analyse myself because I don't see what all the fuss is about because at the end of the day they are just clothes.

One final comment, effectively all women crossdress all the time because they wear what they like. As a result you don't see women endlessly self analysing themselves. I can't imagine a woman donning a 2 piece suit and then suddenly thinking to herself "I feel all masculine" or "This brings out my masculine side". It just doesn't happen.

[ziggie]

Wonderful thread. It's way too early in the morning to form a coherent reply but there is a lot of food for thought. "The Gender Mosaic" looks interesting.

[pob]

I'm a heterosexual male who has no interest in looking or behaving like a woman, and I don't want to be a woman, non-binary or undergo a transition, and all the rest.

Maybe it was lost a bit in my post but this this is like 98% me also.

And so then when I don a different set of clothes I suddenly start feeling all feminine?

Let throw out the word feminine, its largely a meaningless descriptor, The point is that we get a positive feeling or emotion from the crossdressing.

I don't endlessly self-analyse myself because I don't see what all the fuss is about because at the end of the day they are just clothes.

Interesting, I endlessly self-analyse myself because they are just clothes and if that is the case why can?t I get the same fulfilment from any clothes or in fact no clothes at all.

I can't imagine a woman donning a 2 piece suit and then suddenly thinking to herself "I feel all masculine" or "This brings out my masculine side". It just doesn't happen.

I strongly disagree, they may not think about it in these terms but women are practically required to do something like this to succeed in the man focused business world for example.
[edit] - I could have framed this thought better, this is the opinion of a GG who wrote a book on the subject and is a behavioural observation not a fact about how anyone may think or feel.

[Di]

One final comment, effectively all women crossdress all the time because they wear what they like. As a result you don't see women endlessly self analysing themselves. I can't imagine a woman donning a 2 piece suit and then suddenly thinking to herself "I feel all masculine" or "This brings out my masculine side". It just doesn't happen.

Thank you Julia Bowie
As a GG we ALL have tried to say basically over the years the same thing and it falls on deaf ears because of course some here know how we feel ( not us of course not)
. I myself own a dress shirt I bought from the mens department and a suit jacket that just happened to be in the mens section.they are mine……..it is only material and I feel just like me when I wear them.
.
Analyze yourself is fine .
Only replying to this point because it infuriates me .
You can explain / analyze all the rest it involves you .
Do not understand why your need to do that but whatever you need .

Monica exactly TY

Pro tip. Never repeat the above attempt at mamsplanation in front of a ciswoman. ��

[pob]

Thank you Julia Bowie
As a GG we ALL have tried to say basically over the years the same thing and it falls on deaf ears because of course some here know how we feel ( not us of course not)
. I myself own a dress shirt I bought from the mens department and a suit jacket that just happened to be in the mens section.they are mine??..it is only material and I feel just like me when I wear them.
.
Analyze yourself is fine .
Only replying to this point because it infuriates me .
You can explain / analyze all the rest it involves you .
Do not understand why your need to do that but whatever you need .

I agree with all of this.

I apologise if I came accross any different.

I hope my thoughts are of help to anybody but if you dont like them ignore me and you do you.

The last point where I referenced women directly was the opinion of the GG who wrote the book that was recommended to me and I read that was mentioned earlier that I am just repeating.