Dadt

[Jolene Robertson]

OK I keep hearing about "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in a lot of the relationships. What are some of the boundaries and terms of this, how does it work and is it any different than being in the closet?
I'm sure the conditions are as diverse as we are.
I am fortunate that my wife is accepting but I also understand many are not and I understand that too.
Any and all feedback is welcome.

[MonicaPVD]

There's a rainbow of fruit flavors when it comes to DADT. In my case, my partner discovered some time ago that I liked to dress. She reacted very bad and made it clear that it was unacceptable. The whole, I married a man and I expect you to be one, etc etc.

Since then, I have never dressed at home or keep any of my things at home. A few years ago, we were going to attend a Halloween party and I floated the trial idea of dressing as a female cosplay character. Her reaction was immediate, negative, and profound. We have never had a conversation about the topic.

I suspect that she is aware that this is a big part of who I am, and is mortified by what it may lead to. This situation has led me to justify living an extreme double life where I am constantly being dishonest.

[Paula_56]

You and me both

[Crissy 107]

I am in a DADT marriage and I came out to my wife a little over 8 years ago. In the beginning she was very accepting, gave me 19 pairs of hand me down panties which she laid out on our bed for me. She recommended using her shapewear after an abdominal hernia and bought me some things, mostly sleep wear and the such. We used to wear matching panties and fun in the bedroom really kicked up.
She also got me started on nail polish, painting my toes anytime I wanted plus she got me a gift card for my first pedi
In less then a year her interest changed and she just did not want to play anymore. I did not ever push boundaries and was happy with where I was and how we enjoyed it.
Finally she was just done with it, I asked what happened and she said she thought it was just a phase I was going through. I told her no it was not and that it was in me to stay.
We had discussed how I started with this and suppressed it for years back at the beginning. She told me to not wear any of her things, which I never did without her permission and that was pretty much it.
She knows I wear panties 24/7 and that I still get pedicures with color, I am going today.
It has evolved into the DADT situation but I still feel it is better then being in the closet by myself and without her knowledge of this.
If she never knew about this I most likely would have tried to suppress it again and there would be no Crissy time

[GretchenM]

A bit of an addition to my post on this subject.

When I was in therapy, my wife went to a separate therapist that helps friends and families adjust to the idea of having a transgender/gender variant loved one. She didn't go that many times but it did help her to understand more in the early days. The therapist was at the gender identity center here in Denver where I was going - kind of a full service package they offered.

Although dressing is limited, gender expression and engaging in female-like behavior without the clothes is quite acceptable to my wife. In fact she rather enjoys having a husband who is a bit more like her in thinking. I still show some masculinity, but it is limited. I think this goes along with the trend that a lot of women don't care for the domineering husband and prefer a husband who exhibits considerable sensitivity rather than being the classic, stereotypical male - rough and gruff. Not all women like that femininity, but mine does and I think that helps with the acceptance.

The point is we have found that the more feminine behaviors I exhibit is far more important than the dressing. In a word, she appreciates me being somewhat female-like in personality, something I did not do back in my denial days, but with minimal clothing to match the personality. In short, a kind of mild androgyny. I think that is a kind of acceptance, but I also understand that is just not for everybody.

There are certainly common threads in the posts here, but it is fascinating to see the wide variations in so many of our situations.

[Wendy-Lyn]

I would walk out and walk away. And I'd keep on walking. Simple as that.
If she can't or won't accept me as I am, then I don't want her. I'm no longer prepared to hide Wendy, and I'm no longer prepared to compromise on this. On other things, yes. On this, no.
I've already been through one DV relationship (nothing to do with dressing). I survived, but it nearly destroyed me - I won't even attempt to risk another. If that's the choice, I'd sooner stay single.
DADT is simply not something I'd be prepared to tolerate.

[Di]

Great thread Jolene.
I always wonder if some DADT is just hiding it from them or is there an agreement they know but give a heads up coming home ect because they do not want to see.

I suspect that she is aware that this is a big part of who I am, and is mortified by what it may lead to. This situation has led me to justify living an extreme double life where I am constantly being dishonest.

This makes me so heart broken . I know I go on and on about not hiding and telling your partner .but this is most important before marriage. I wish wives that find out after can see it is a part of you and makes you no less of a man but a complete person.I hope this point will be made when CDs are explaining the whys and PLEASE never say you will stop /as we know that is impossible.

Sorry to jump in but Monicas sentence broke my heart.

I look forward to others answers so I understand better the DADT and what everyone means by that in their life.

[Kris Burton]

First, Monica and Paula - my heart goes out to you both. It must be extraordinarily difficult to live that way. The stress alone would cause me to break down in just a short time, and in fact it did. The length of time I actively dressed was just a few weeks before fessing up, so imagining maintaining that level of secrecy over a sustained period is beyond difficult. I held off my own CDing for many years for this very reason. Even so, you love for your SO must be great, and you both must be very committed to maintaining your relationship to continue on that way.

I was lucky, my wife is accepting, even participatory up to a point. , However, there are limits, and that includes my desire to step out into the community, which at present is on the short but emphatic "don't go there" list. MY hope is that I will be able to maintain that level of patience, but it's getting harder. It may become a segment of our relationship that becomes DADT, but these comments will redouble my resolve to try to maintain the balance.

[CarlaWestin]

My DADT situation evolved because of the dishonesty and deception that was hallmark to my crossdressing adventures. During therapy a long time ago it was mentioned that the purpose was to get to the heart of the matter.
It was at that time that I started checking myself and began living as truthful and honest in life as I possibly could. And I really drilled in to it. It was part of a maturity adjustment about respect, life, money, health decisions, etc.
I had correctly defined my crossdressing as an exciting activity and experience that pushed into unknown territory out of the normal comfort zone, satisfied a desire for a creative outlet and gave me a personal reward system.
It was also a sexual enlightenment. There was a gratification that I could actually be an object of my desire without the pursuit, social interaction or infidelity. I would cringe when hearing acquaintances talk about their extra marital conquests.
It was quite the secret world I was keeping concealed and even the creativity that went into the clandestine part was enjoyable.

But, the dishonesty of it all was bothering me.

As part of the attraction to my wife was her acceptance and curiosity of the odd and off-center, I felt that I could let her know that I liked to play dress up as a hobby along with the other
*ehem* non-mainstream proclivities she already knew about. But, my approach wasn't one of my best decisions. Unlike in a previous relationship, my wearing a bra with boobs around the house just didn't go over well and she let me know
that she didn't like it. So, it was back to deception by omission. Things were kept out of sight but not necessarily hidden. Then about 15 years ago I decided to buy her some flowers, take her out to dinner and tell her I was a MtF crossdresser.
The only salvageable outcome from that was that the truth was finally disclosed. It was very nearly the end of our marriage. The challenge became respecting her complete non-acceptance but also respecting my desires to pursue a personal activity that
had taken me a long time to accept. Also, the perspective had to be defined as that other thing that was more of a minor detail in a wonderful, loving and trusting relationship.

So, DADT and IDWTSI became the line in the sand.

And that's where it is now. I do keep the Carla closet locked so none of my buds can stumble upon my stuff. It's part of the cool man cave I built and when questioned, I mention it contains survival stuff which is kinda funny in itself.
And Carla only comes out when wifey is asleep early in the morning or other times when she's away from house. The beauty is that I own it completely so there is no criticism. And I like that there's no discussion.
We do have a pure and honest loving relationship with an absolute solid trust factor.

[bridget thronton]

Kay thanks for sharing - my spouse would say something similar I think. I could not lie and hide things from her so I told her years ago. Dressing at home was not an issue once I told my adult children and their partners - at my wife's insistence (to prevent someone else telling them first). My wife does not want her family to know - but I think they suspect so that is sort of DADT

[Sandra_Dodds]

There's a rainbow of fruit flavors when it comes to DADT. In my case, my partner discovered some time ago that I liked to dress. She reacted very bad and made it clear that it was unacceptable. The whole, I married a man and I expect you to be one, etc etc.

Same here Monica. Rather than DADT, I consider myself NANA - she'll Never Accept my crossdressing and I'll Never Admit that I'm still doing it. Yes, I know the deception is not good but it's either that or give up the other 95% of our life that is perfectly okay.

[Christie ann]

Same here Monica. Rather than DADT, I consider myself NANA - she'll Never Accept my crossdressing and I'll Never Admit that I'm still doing it. Yes, I know the deception is not good but it's either that or give up the other 95% of our life that is perfectly okay.

Yes, NANA seems to be where we are these days.

[Kellyxx]

Told my wife a few weeks back after almost 24 years of marriage. We're firmly DADT. Hopefully that will change over time, but can't take that for granted.

[kimdl93]

I came out to my ex before we were even engaged. Admittedly, at the time I couldn’t imagine doing anything beyond underdressing and told her that. She was clear at that time that she never wanted to see me completely dressed as a woman, because, to use her words, it would change how she saw me.

Todays conversation struck a chord, especially Di’s comment, because I realize that while yes, I did evolved (or perhaps finally allowed myself do what I had repressed for so long) I was still ME. What changed for my wife was the illusion she had created for herself, an illusion that met her needs. It seems that she loved the illusion and not me.

[Monique65]

My situation is does she really want to know? She knows I wear panties and has even helped pick them out, I shave my body, and my nails are long and manicured. When I try to broach the topic, she either changes the subject or remains silent. So she doesn’t ask and I don’t tell.

[MonicaPVD]

Di, it is sad and frustrating, and I realize that I am hurting her and myself by being dishonest. We have been together a long time and, by every measure besides this aspect of my life, everything works very well. Life is about making compromises. I accepted this a long time ago, like I accepted the fact that one day this will all surface in the ugliest way, and the relationship will end. Until that day comes, we live to fight (in heels) another day.

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

What changed for my wife was the illusion she had created for herself, an illusion that met her needs. It seems that she loved the illusion and not me.

This is normal. We are attracted to others for a variety of reasons, often shamelessly superficial reasons. If you fell in love with a person who was a remarkable athlete, slender and muscular, and some time later they gained 150 lbs, they would argue that they are still the same person. And they would be correct. But they are a version of that same person that does not compute with what attracted you to them initially. This is very superficial and we are loath to admit that we can be this vain. Yet, we often are.

[Geena75]

I am officially closeted, however ... A little over a year ago I was "virtually" caught. Although not seen in my full impression (wig dress hose shoes make-up eyelashes) she did see my make-up on the table, spare wig, spare shoes. I made a couple excuses that seemed to satisfy her and nothing has been said since. While there has been no discussion, I am also sure she isn't dumb and has some notion of what I occasionally do but doesn't ask. So, I regard mine as closeted with all the cautions that go along with it, but wonder if I have a virtual DADT setting.

[BTWimRobin]

This whole CDing lifestyle hit me late in life. While I have had a desire to dress my whole life, I was always able to suppress my desire. Around the time I hit 50 the desire started to grow and here I was pushing 57 and it was either go crazy or accept it. I decided to accept myself as a CD. Not wanting to do anything to deceive my wife, I immediately came out to her and we had the talk. My wife knew for a while something was up for a while. She was happy I told her. I left it at that for a week or so and then I brought up the topic again and she basically said "I married a guy and I want that guy. And quite frankly, I don't understand why women want to wear women's clothing let alone you, my husband." I decided to seek professional help and sought out a therapist. Long story short, my wife felt the therapist was trying to come between us. After a few sessions, my therapist suggested wifey and I set some ground rules and said there is absolutely nothing wrong with me and to enjoy my new lifestyle. That was the end of therapy. My wife and I came up with some basic ground rules. Basically, I can wear anything I want, within reason, when she is around as long as I don't flaunt, prance or do anything to throw my conceived notion of femininity in her face. I agreed and asked what does "within reason" mean? Her reply was she will let me know when I overstep. Almost 3 years later she hasn't commented on anything I have worn and I am still trying to figure it out where I stand. The sad part is I never wanted to deceive her and yet, I do. Over the years, Robin has grown mostly behind my wife's back (although I'm sure she suspects). Why, because we never talk about it. She never brings up the topic. I don't bring up the topic because I don't want her to think I am throwing it in her face. I really feel like I'm in limbo.

[CharlotteCD]

DADT for my wife and I is as follows:

She found out I dress. We discussed it. She told me she doesn't want to see me dressed. I agreed. She doesn't want to see clothes arriving in the post, or left lying around. I respect that wish.

It's never talked about. She doesn't ask me if I have dressed when she has been out, she doesn't ask how I am feeling. I don't ask her if I can dress, or have time to myself. I never mention dressing explicitly.

It is what it is. I just take every precaution I can.

[Veronica Lacey]

Two months after I met my wife I disclosed to her that I like to wear women's clothing by literally walking out of her closet in one of her blouses and a skirt. We had a cautious talk that afternoon and...she didn't run away. We've been together now for 28 years and going strong.

Does she want to see me dressed en femme? No, she bristles at the thought of me in hose, heels and a bra but she'll regularly help me find private time to do so. Will she help me purchase or repair any such items? No, but she does not freak out, judge nor condemn me when a package arrives. Does she offer me time to share discussion about my journey and preferences in this matter? No, but will occasionally do so at my behest even if with minimal enthusiasm or interest.

Does she appreciate the degree of masculinity I possess and exhibit? Yes. Does she appreciate my more sensitive side that is also ever-present? Yes. Does she acknowledge that the two sides co-exist naturally and permanently within me and may very well be present in my clothing choices from day-to-day? Yes. Does she love me as I am? Yes.

I would love to wear anything I please when I wish to (as we choose to wear clothing throughout the day anyways) but that arrangement is not likely to exist. My wife, while overall accepting of who I am, is not likely to change her tune on this. Yet it is ok for me to continue dressing in private without having to tip toe around the house with clothing or worry of being outed, without worry of our marriage imploding. Neither of us live in worry nor fear but together with love and overall acceptance.

While I consider this still to be a form of DADT - maybe it's more of a LALL (live and let live) arrangement? - I gratefully and happily accept what my wife and I have fashioned around this part of my personality. I consider myself a lucky husband.

[GretchenM]

I came out to my wife in August 2011. She didn't say much, but just listened. But her body language said it all - she leaned further and further away from me as if saying, "Who are you and what have you done with my husband?" I soon started therapy and that helped a lot, but any involvement on her part in actual dressing was blocked with a kryptonite wall even Superman could not break through.

As time has passed she has loosened up a bit. We have talked at times and she understands it is a part of me that began when I was very young and I tried to destroy and eliminate for most of my life, but eventually the female-like portions won the war. There were compromises and the like, but generally I wear flats around the house and women's T's and sweatshirts at home and away, but going any further is a no-no, at least in her presence. It works for me and for her.

So it has gone from a rigid DADT to a somewhat looser DADT. We have talked a great deal about the nature of gender and she has a little bit of understanding of the various theories and the findings that help explain this behavior to some extent, but without a definite answer. We are both trained in the sciences and so we can talk at a fairly deep level, but understanding a behavior and actually being involved in some way in that behavior is emotionally charged and beyond the boundaries of causation. It is personal and I understand that as does she. So it is a fairly agreeable arrangement that is just one of those personal things we all have that just needs to be accepted to a level that is workable even though perhaps far from ideal. Next month is our 53rd anniversary and we have made it through far more difficult things than this. With regard to my gender variance, we found it is just a matter of establishing comfortable boundaries and recognizing we are a couple, but we are also individuals with our own quirks some of which may not be completely desirable. It works.

[Sandi Beech]

It took me a while to understand that there are many flavors of DADT. Mine leans towards DADT and don?t even think about doing it. I tried the honesty path, in fact more times than I should have. Most would have given up long before me. I really only wanted to shave and wear pantyhose mostly. When the therapist gave her a homework assignment in 2017 to look up crossdressing on the Internet, she likely landed on this web site. She fired the therapist because she did not fix me and she has not wanted to talk about it since. Of course I went to the therapist one last time as Sandi by myself. When I asked her what she thought, she said ? I see a women ?. After that I felt cured.

It is kind of unfortunate that by going underground with it, I grew into going out on a level I would never have done if she had not rejected doing it at home. I have kept the peace since then by going down the secretive path similar to Monica. It is not what I wanted, but how I cope as well.

The one thing that this site helped me realize is that she just can not help the way she is, and I am not mad at her about it any more.

Sandi

[britskye]

My situation is similar to others here.

For years, my wife has known I've had a feminine side. We've joked and teased about how I'm comfortable wearing women's clothes, but to her knowledge it was just that a joke. Last year I opened up to her (after 18 years together) about some of my needs. I bought myself a slip nightgown for Christmas and that opened the discussion when she saw it. She point blank told me she's not attracted to women and didn't marry one. I told her I understood her position and explained that this isn't a new thing and has been deeply buried with occasional times over the past decades where I would explore myself. The conversation with her wasn't as bad as it sounds. She is very open minded and supports LGBTQ in all its forms, just not when it involves me. She questioned my sexuality (crossdressers must be gay) and told me she would support me if that's what I needed, but not as my wife.

After a couple of days where we both contemplated what had happened, she basically said she's going to pretend that the discussion never happened. She's tolerating me sleeping in my gowns, but that's all she's going to allow. So at the moment, that's as far as the discussion will go.

I love reading how over time some spouses get more comfortable with it and I have a brooding hope that it will be this way with my wife. However, I know i can't push her on the subject and have to respect her boundaries.

[Kay Adams GG]

I haven't gone DADT because of my Love and wanting My SO to be Fulfilled and Happy.

I originally joined the Forum because I had some serious questions to ask about some of my feelings...and didn't want to air them out in the open.

Basically, it's the Fluctuations that I feel. Some of the issues about my Image of: who I married has come into play at some of the times during this adjustment period. We discussed the fact that "I did Marry a Man". She offered to just refrain; however I knew that this would lead to white-lies/division and Discontentment from my SO. The reason that I came to the Conclusion that white lies would occur is because that, after realizing that "It wasn't JUST a Phase" and ran deeper than this. This feeling has been with her for a Very long time, even though she didn't understand what it meant at the time.

Now these comments/responses have reminded me of the Phases of Acceptance that I myself went through and worked through...by Myself! I still revisit them Momentarily; however, I don't entertain them for long. I see my SO as an ever-Growing Blossom, branching out and Discovering her own and I just can't be selfish and squelch it. It's a part of my SO, yes it has been a Compromise/Adjustment on How I view my SO today. My view of her as a Male has changed; it can't but help it to change...somehow! When I look at my SO there IS a little less Male in Him. It's a trade-off for me; Selfish=Division or Complete Rejection=either Divorce or One Unhappy in the Closet CD. Let me qualify this by saying that this is just My Experience and opinion on this, it's not chiseled in stone as a Law.

Joint Counseling is still an option. Maybe I can come to a better understanding of the Dynamics of how our Relationship HAS changed, and maybe offer another dimension to it. It's difficult to be fully open here, however maybe some of you can glean some valuable information/insight from it.

I'm NOT wanting a "Knee-Jerk" response of: "Well, then I'll just NOT do it anymore!" or "Our marriage is More Important than my CD'ing". It's NOT at that point nor do I feel that it will Ever get to this point. It's a Work-in-Progress. As I had stated in another Thread of mine...It's a Marathon and Not a Race; I'm in this for the Long Haul.

I hope that this didn't leave some of you DADT's feeling, "Well, maybe I'll never have TOTAL acceptance/support from my SO". It may be that it's going to be something that you Both work through as long as the lines of Communication remain Open! It may be in Stages, with some questions arising along the way; you don't know there's a question to ask until a situation presents itself.

There's No Magic Wand to wave or pill to take to help this Process. It's Real, and it takes Real work to make it Possible to have some Degree of Acceptance. There are Limitations/Boundaries in ANY relationship.

Be Happy, and a Coined Phrase...To thine own self be true. Good Luck and Condolences to those of you who don't have an opportunity to share with an accepting SO.

Comments and questions are welcomed,

Ta Ta

[SaraLin]

Another DADT flavor:

I live in what I call a "partial DADT" but I'm not sure if that's exactly right.

Before my wife and I got too serious (when we were still dating), I told her ALL about me and my history. I told her that I was never going to give up my panties - or sleeping in nighties. The rest was negotiable... IF she wanted to stick around at all, that is.

Well, she did stick around, but has never budged on what is OK to wear - at least around her. She knows that I have more. I don't hide my (few) outfits from her. They're hanging right there in the closet, but she definitely does NOT want to see me in any of them. And don't even THINK about makeup, wig, etc.

Since the arrival of COVID, and combined with her declining health, neither of us go anywhere. I am pretty much "joined at the hip" to her these days. I love her and don't mind being there and helping, but I am slowly suffocating from lack of Sara time. Sure, the nighties and panties help, and I'm wearing them later and later into the day - but in her eyes, I'm still (male name) - just (male name) in a nightie, not Sara.