Passing

[nicolegurl]

One of the things that held me back for so long was ?passing?. I was under the belief that by not being what I consider passable unless I?m dim lights that this was just a behind closed doors thing and I would be mostly alone in enjoying this. Not until very late did I discover that others would be interested in me even though I didn?t totally pass.

This is not about passing in public but more about finding those that would be attracted to me and not being alone.

Anyone else had similar experiences?

[Sandi Beech]

Nicole,

According to your profile we are about the same age. When we were young some decades or so ago, passing would have been more important then. At least it seemed more important for the binary thinking we had been indoctrinated into at the time. That is not really true anymore, but many of us still spend a lot of energy worrying about it. I do not pass mostly because of my size more than anything, but I get a LOT of acceptance. I dress in what I like, sometimes sexy, sometimes elegant. It just depends on where I am going and how I want to present. I could care less if I do not pass when people treat me with respect. So far it has been great.

I have had people who were attracted to me, but I am not available ; )

Sandi

[Cheryl T]

I had those thoughts for decades.
The thing I wanted most was to be able to "pass" and just go out in public and enjoy life as a woman. Then I went for the first time and realized that few (and we were in a mall) even looked at me. They were all so busy with their own lives they practically ignored me. Then I joined a support group and after the first meeting they said, "c'mon we're going to the diner for coffee". I was paranoid but went. The owner and staff treated us like stars. We were always welcome there and the one time we had an issue with some patrons the owner addressed it and resolved it.
After that we began going out all the time and I came to realize it's not about "passing". It's not about being undetectable. It's about being confident in who you are and conducting yourself in a manner that says "I belong here". Not in a snotty way, not in a better than you way, but in a I'm a person just like you way.
I've found that if you are confident in yourself others will accept you. It's acceptance I always wanted, not passing.

[StaceyJane]

One thing I have learned is to never assume you are passing. I've been called sir so many times while wearing a dress even when I felt really good about my look.

[NaughtyMichelle]

One way to make sure you're almost always called "Ma'am": Go to bars/restaurants where the staff works for tips. It's a confidence-builder.

[DeeDee67]

I'm wondering when some of the ladies I see sometimes are going to try and be passable? I'm not talking about the girls trying to be passable trying to look like men...

[Heather76]

DeeDee, I like your comment if it's what I think it is. There are many GGs out there who do absolutely nothing to enhance their appearance.

[Wendy-Lyn]

Heather, coming to that realisation has boosted my confidence incredibly. I go out in daggy jeans and tops, but still manage to feel and 'sort-of' look like a woman, and so I'm happy with that. At 64 I'll never be a catwalk model (yes I do wish) but I just do the best I can with what I have.

The realisation that I did not 'need' to wear a skirt or dress, or lay my makeup on with a trowel in order to 'be' a woman was a moment of enlightenment.

I would definitely seek help even if it meant outing myself before I'd ever let any man even touch me - let alone anything more. Nothing - and I mean NOTHING - scares me more about all this than the risk of that happening.

[docrobbysherry]

Nicole, if I read between the lines of your post accurately? Passing is not your concern. Nor is finding trans "friends".

It sounds like you're looking for dates?

If you're looking for males or trans dates you'll have no problems, whether u pass, or t not even close to passing!

Even I have been hit on a number of times and I couldn't pass in a blackout on a moonless nite!

If u want to date women, tho, u could have some problems!

[alwayshave]

Nicole, I'm a 6'2 240lb man in a dress, I don't pass. However, I try my best every time I dress.

[nicolegurl]

As I specifically stated when I started this thread it is NOT about passing in public. I was just relating that it was a revelation to me that someone could be attracted to me even though I wasn?t totally passable. I just wanted to know if anyone else had a similar experience.

I am more interested in meeting/dates/relationships with someone I connect with not based on their label.

[Krisi]

DeeDee, I like your comment if it's what I think it is. There are many GGs out there who do absolutely nothing to enhance their appearance.

Why is a woman obligated to "enhance their appearance"? I'm assuming you are talking about makeup, stylish hair and clothing, jewelry and nails?

There is a time and place for everything. Why should a woman get all dolled up to work in a factory or as a delivery driver? Or to go to the store for groceries?

Do men typically wear a suit and tie for the same occasions?

It's pretty sexist for men to think that women we don't even know to spend a couple hours each morning getting "dolled up" just to look "pretty" for men they don't even know. Just as with men, there are certain jobs and situations that require it, but the rest of the time they have no obligation to anyone else, especially people they don't know.

Most of the women I know don't wear makeup or dress up unless they are going someplace special. Same for the men.

[Mary Loo]

Krisi,

Well put!

[Dutchess]

There are many GGs out there who do absolutely nothing to enhance their appearance.

That's because we aren't looking for "that kind "of attention ...

OP,
Passing as most will tell you is a myth . My ex husband had literally hundreds of male admirers and he does not pass . Those kind of guys don't care about that so much.

[docrobbysherry]

Why is a woman obligated to "enhance their appearance"? I'm assuming you are talking about makeup, stylish hair and clothing, jewelry and nails?

There is a time and place for everything. Why should a woman get all dolled up to work in a factory or as a delivery driver? Or to go to the store for groceries?

Do men typically wear a suit and tie for the same occasions?

It's pretty sexist for men to think that women we don't even know to spend a couple hours each morning getting "dolled up" just to look "pretty" for men they don't even know. Just as with men, there are certain jobs and situations that require it, but the rest of the time they have no obligation to anyone else, especially people they don't know.

Most of the women I know don't wear makeup or dress up unless they are going someplace special. Same for the men.

Sorry, Krisi. Must disagree. Did u ask your wife about this before replying? Because my ex and a number of girlfriends have told me they don't dress for men but for other women!

Women that aren't looking to attract a man when they r out, dress nice so other women won't look down on them. When I asked if it was a contest my ex thot a moment and replied, "Uhhh, maybe a little bit?"

[Aunt Kelly]

Similar experience? Yes, in many ways. It was not until I came to grips with the knowledge that I who I am, regardless of what others think, that "passing" ceased to matter. That's not to say I'd never gone out in public before. While still identifying as a crossdresser, I'd been out in public for twenty years, but I still felt the weight of that "judgement" that I just knew would come whenever I'd been clocked. Self acceptance empowers one to recognize that all the judgement in the world need not change who you are. It only affects you if you let it.

[Krisi]

Sorry, Krisi. Must disagree. Did u ask your wife about this before replying? Because my ex and a number of girlfriends have told me they don't dress for men but for other women!

Women that aren't looking to attract a man when they r out, dress nice so other women won't look down on them. When I asked if it was a contest my ex thot a moment and replied, "Uhhh, maybe a little bit?"

Obviously, we live in different parts of the country and in different social circles.

But seriously, does your female letter carrier or UPS/FedEX driver wear full makeup, a tight fitting dress and heels when working?

I worked with a few female "trade" workers in my day. Electricians, carpenters, general laborers and even a boiler mechanic. They all dressed for the work they were doing. Not a one wore heels or skirts to work.

There is a time and a place to dress up, but it's unfair and sexist to expect women to look a certain way. Nobody has an obligation to look good for me or anyone else.

[Xenia]

Probably THE biggest shock for me when I started going out in public was guys flirting with me.

A couple years ago a hit one of the local casinos en femme. Within five minutes of my sitting down at a slot machine, some dude came up and sat at the machine next to mine. Told me that he though my dress was pretty, made a few random comments about the game I was playing, etc. After like seven or eight comments I started thinking "Why is he so chatty?" before it suddenly hit me...."HOLY CRAP HE'S HITTING ON ME WTF"

Was definitely not expecting that!

[Jenni6521]

I do not labor under any delusion of ever being able to pass. When I was in my late teens and early 20's that meant a lot to me. Although, then I never went out in public. As I have said before in other posts, I do not own a wig or forms. That is of course subject to change. I go out as I am able to and wear what I find as comfortable. I have short buzz cut hair. I am sure I look like a hot mess, but honestly I am not going out to impress others. I simply just enjoy even the simplest of risk I take when challenging myself to accept me. I am planning a makeover session later this month. That could be a very revealing moment for me, as I have never done this before. I have booked this event and am still trying to talk myself out of going. Going back to the OP I am not available so I am unconcerned about being able to attract others. It might be fun though!

[Barbara Jo]

We all must come to realize that not all woman are beauty queens and some are ever a bit masculine.
So, if you have reasonably feminine body (even with padding) , you can usually pass.

It all comes down to how you handle / present yourself in public.
You must have the mind set that you are just wearing the lingerie and outer female clothing that females normally wear and are doing nothing wrong ..... be completely at ease as a women in public. Then go about your business. shopping etc just as any woman would

BTW sooner of later you will have to interact with someone. So you must practice sounding female without resorting a horrible falsetto.
Also, at leas for the foreseeable future, you can wear a medical mask.

[Stephanie47]

This is not about passing in public but more about finding those that would be attracted to me and not being alone.

That's the problem. Where does a cross dressing man fit into the world and also into a comfort zone? I do not pass, fly under the radar. If I were to interact with the public, what kind of reception would I receive? Frankly, chatting up a saleswoman at a cosmetic counter is a brief interaction. Yes, perhaps someone will relish the act of conversing with another human, but is that sufficient? Would it be sufficient to sit around with a group of cross dressing men and the only thing in common is the female attire? At 74, do I have anything in common with a guy of 24? Is there a generational divide? There is a generational divide at my age. My wife and I are the grandparents on the block. Sure, once a year there may be the invite to a block BBQ while the adults with school age kids mingle freely. I have hobby interests. Will it be in my comfort zone to show up en femme? What will the reception be of others?

Forty years ago my wife told me it was alright with her if I joined a support group. I looked, nothing. It would be great to have an accepting wife who would accept all aspects of her husband. But, it is not to be.

[Patience]

Probably THE biggest shock for me when I started going out in public was guys flirting with me.

A couple years ago a hit one of the local casinos en femme. Within five minutes of my sitting down at a slot machine, some dude came up and sat at the machine next to mine. Told me that he though my dress was pretty, made a few random comments about the game I was playing, etc. After like seven or eight comments I started thinking "Why is he so chatty?" before it suddenly hit me...."HOLY CRAP HE'S HITTING ON ME WTF"

Was definitely not expecting that!

Not to rain on your parade or anything, but based on the information you provided, those guys probably did realize you were male underneath your pretty exterior.

These are guys who are either:

A) Turned on by anything in a dress, or:
B) Latently bi or homosexual, but unwilling to accept it and rationalize that it doesn't count as gay if the other person is presenting as a female, Or:
C) Actually gay/bi and think you're dolled up because you are cruising for guys.

I like to believe I can pass under the right conditions if I keep my mouth shut. If I talk, the game is up.

[Barbara Jo]

Why do some think that those who compliment them are aware that they are not female?

Gals sometimes do compliment another females on their clothes, such as saying, ""I like your skirt".
Also,. guys like it when a woman acts and dresses feminine in a nice dress or skirt..... as opposed to looking and dressing like they just came from the gym.

[Stephanie47]

Also,. guys like it when a woman acts and dresses feminine in a nice dress or skirt..... as opposed to looking and dressing like they just came from the gym.

I'll tell you my wife was a knockout when she looked disheveled and looked like she was caught in a windstorm. She was some really hot chick. Heck, even my son said "Mom looked hot when she was young!" She still looks "hot" in jeans and graphic tee shirt and no makeup. I've encountered too many women who looked really great and alluring.....until they opened their mouths and talked. GG's, when you're hot, you're hot and you know it.

[ellbee]

My ex husband had literally hundreds of male admirers and he does not pass . Those kind of guys don't care about that so much.

Not to rain on your parade or anything, but based on the information you provided, those guys probably did realize you were male underneath your pretty exterior.

These are guys who are either:

A) Turned on by anything in a dress, or:
B) Latently bi or homosexual, but unwilling to accept it and rationalize that it doesn't count as gay if the other person is presenting as a female, Or:
C) Actually gay/bi and think you're dolled up because you are cruising for guys.

Two key quotes, IMO.


The OP mentions that "finding those that would be attracted to me and not being alone."

Welp, see above!


The question is, is one perhaps interested in playing the female role when being with a guy?

If so, then they're in luck!



Looking for a GG, however? Totally different story. Things will probably be a bit trickier.

As for passing, or as best & close as one can get? Might be a slippery slope with a GG -- or not. Could be a bit "too weird" for some, if the CD'er looks pretty legit. At the same time, though, you probably don't want to look like a slobby & disheveled CD'er, either.


Anyway, I understand this happens sometimes, that a couple will meet for the first time, say, while attending a drag show or something... And the guy is already dolled-up! No surprises there, eh?

Based on that, I think the best thing to do, is just live your life, knowing & accepting that you're a CD'er (or something similar), and go about your day. If that entails dressing up the whole 9 yards & enjoying certain activities? Then so be it. If just wearing some women's stuff in your everyday life while presenting male is more your scene? Then do that.

This way, perhaps the GG would have a better understanding of where you may be at with all this, to what degree & frequency.


Honestly, it wasn't intended this way, but it is a nice potential side benefit, now that I think about it, with how I present in daily life.


Still waiting, ladies!