I believe it's not cheating (as in adultery) BUT if your secret dressing activities take an inordinate amount of time away from activities you would normally do together or somehow negatively impact your feelings for or your relationship with this woman who you presumably love then you are cheating her out enjoying what should be a happy, fulfilling husband/wife relationship.
Well, there's "actual cheating" in the manner of having an affair outside of the marriage or the (alleged) committed relationship which also includes a sexual component, and then there is "emotional cheating" of the type described by Reine, where the perpetrator's priorities - be it either a golf addiction (or the like) or else crossdressing in our case - rest elsewhere, and this creates a distance between the partners.
I can't speak for the others here and how they rationalize their crossdressing, but I know that in my case...and a strictly DADT one at that...my wife knows of "Leslie", but has never seen or met her, and never wants to. She has often told me that she considers "Leslie" to be the "other woman" in our relationship, even though she only exists virtually and in the manner of an avatar.
When Princess Diana spoke of Camilla's effect on her marriage to Prince Charles and likening it to having a third person in it, thereby making it too crowded, I think that this pretty much sums up my wife's view on the matter as well. In the end, it doesn't really matter whether or not I think that my crossdressing constitutes "cheating"...what matters is how she perceives it.
I have just a couple more comments on this thread. First, we must all remember one of the (if not THE) most important reasons WHY we have to keep our crossdressing secret in the first place. We're not trying to purposely be deceitful to our SO's and somehow take illicit pleasure in sneaking around like some kind of criminal. When I was hiding my crossdressing from my wife, I felt bad and guilty about it. But getting back to the primary reason why I kept it secret: As I and others have stated before, it's the FEAR of the ridicule, ostracizing, possibly losing a job, friends, and partner, AND the fear of being physically attacked or KILLED if we were to find ourselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The final comment that I'd like folks to keep in mind (again, repeated elsewhere by me and others on the forum) is the crazy double standard our society places on the way males and females are supposed to dress. GG's, imagine (or remember, if you're old enough) HAVING to wear dresses or skirts to school, work, church, etc. I bet you wanted to wear pants but just couldn't. Since the 70s, you've been able to wear whatever you want, including suits with ties that look like traditional men's suits. That's great! Now, reflect on the REALITY that men can NEVER wear skirts, dresses, leggings, heels, makeup, or certain hair styles, jewelry, hats, etc., without the fears and possible consequences I mentioned above.
So my conclusion is that the idea of cheating has nothing to do with keeping our crossdressing secret. We hide in fear of getting caught, period.
I know there are a lot of different situations and the above opinions are mine only. They may apply to others, but they are my reality. Fortunately I don't have to worry about my wife finding out any more (out to her a couple of years ago), but I do have to worry about most friends and family finding out.
What I read in many posts is essentially self-justification, not empathy with spouses, and it only goes so far.
I used to lay down the same arguments, but quickly stopped doing so. Why? Because the main problem with this kind of debate is that the CDers tend to justify and rationalize from their particular point of view. That CDer point of view is irrelevant to the matter of determining how a spouse can be affected by the hiding. Only the spouse's POV will affect her/his feelings. If it equates cheating for her/him, then your self-justifications are pointless. Otherwise, it'd mean that you could do any kind and level of damage as long as you thought it may not be entirely your fault.
Well you can probably find all kinds of rationalizations to justify burning down your neighborhood.
It doesn't change the fact that you burn people.
Get real.
I totally understand how much of a shock it is when a spouse finds out, especially after years of a marriage where nothing was suspected, and how confused they must be. But after getting over the initial shock, how about showing a little compassion and understanding, not of the crossdresser's "point of view," but of his having to live in fear and hiding for all those years? Those are real experiences, not self justifications.Originally Posted by DianeT
Depends if one does it secretly or not. IMO
Larissa, I lived with that fear all my life. I understand and share this feeling, believe me.
But it doesn't change the damage I have done to my couple and the freedom of choice I stole from my wife, because I could have done much better if I had chosen to grow up. Feeling sorry for myself won't change that. Feeling sorry for my wife can hopefully mend some of the damage done and make our life better. That's what I mean by "getting real". You can't change the past. Try with the future.
And to the OP: I covered this in another Loved Ones thread long ago, but basically the hiding of CDing is possibly worse than cheating for some wives.
-- EDIT --
For anyone doubting that the hiding can equate cheating, you should read (in case you missed it) the post made by ReineD in the current thread. I think it is remarkably explained.
Last edited by DianeT; 04-29-2022 at 11:02 AM.
The implication is that CD'ing is equivalent to sexual infidelity. That's a false equivalence. Yes, both involve deception, which is never a healthy thing for a relationship, but there the similarity ends.
Calling bigotry an "opinion" is like calling arsenic a "flavor".
ReineD at #25: "The minute something else takes priority over the relationship, it is a form of cheating and the consequences can be just as dire as if there had been an affair."
So true; A golf widow perhaps? A guy works over time Monday through Friday while his wife wipes kids' butts all week, and he goes off and plays golf with his buddies on Saturday while his wife continues to wipe butts. Substitute any activity; not just golf. How many times will a guy's wife profess absolutely no interest in his activity and encourage him to go it alone? Insert any activity. Now, you can switch it around. It's applicable to both.
In my relationship, my wife and I are sort of joined at the hip. Due to a visual impairment/depth perception problem resultant of being struck by a car when she was twelve, she does not drive a car. I have become her chauffeur. Most of the time I'll engage with her activity; sometimes read a book in the car. I encourage her to engage with her friends; female and male. Yes, her high school sweetheart sits at our kitchen table sometimes, even when I am not home. I am totally trusting; otherwise why be married. She is not my possession.
Enter my desire to wear women's clothing on occasion. I honor her requests that she does not want to engage. I am fortunate and thankful that she does not berate my desires; call me names; track down a not-out-for-everyone-to-see-wardrobe; cast dispersions upon cross dressing. Yet, it hurts not to be able to share any part of my soul. So, I and most others are left to struggle through life feeling unfulfilled.
What's a guy to do? I cannot seem to get a straight answer from any woman on the subject. Sure, I understand some of the extreme behaviors upset a woman. But, what is the true reason? Is he less than your vision of a man? Will their social standing in the community take a hit? Church doctrine says he is a pervert? As one always asks "What's really the reason?"
I dont know , you all tell me .....
This is one of the reasons I parted ways with my ex husband.. we were no longer intimate( for years after I accepted too) because he was only intimate with Monique..his alter ego. Period..and to act like that doesn't happen with people here is ridiculous. Of course it does .. if you do that to the point that you no longer have any sexual contact with your spouse then its certainly something like cheating/neglect etc ??
I'm not going to live like that.. he can have garish Monique all day now ( in his car where he lives due to job loss over her too ). Yes he had many other men also but Monique will never go away. Sadly Monique became everything and there are those just like that right here reading this .
And no for the 1000000th time..there's no double standard.. people wear what they want and gg's aren't trying to impersonate men (usually) when they wear pants or mens wear . Thats the difference and its been talked about many times here
Last edited by Dutchess; 04-29-2022 at 01:00 PM.
IG : Knightress Oxide
I really wanted to end my participation in this thread, but I do feel obliged to respond to other posts directed at me. So first of all, Dutchess, I'm sincerely sorry that your ex husband caused you such anguish and grief. Your situation represents the wife's worst fears, and I feel for you. However, we're not all like Monique. In fact, most of us who are out to our wives go out of our way to accommodate their concerns, and stay within the boundaries we've negotiated with them. HOWEVER, you can't be serious about there not being a double standard!!! Women wear whatever they want with no consequences, and if men wear "women's" clothes, hairstyles, or makeup, we are laughed at, physically attacked, lose jobs, lose relationships, and suffer severe mental anguish if not mental illness as a result. Am I somehow unique in this observation of the current status of our society in this regard? I strongly doubt it, but still, it would be nice to hear from others who agree.....
Larissa, women are discriminated for work, salaries, all kinds of rights (list too long). They are used, abused, ridiculed, mocked, despised.
Men don't wear the clothes they want.
OK, this is getting ridiculous. You're comparing apples and oranges. Of course what you say is painfully true, but it has NOTHING to do with men crossdressing or what this thread is about. I quit. Are you satisfied?
Oh from reading this forum over the years many are like Monique - Ive been here and in this community a long while and there are many women just like me . The men I see almost all wear what they want ..male,female or in the middle. My guys can't be too sheltered ..my life experiences would be too much for them. Mine all wear nail polish and dont try to hide it, LONG hair , ears pierced 20-30- 40+ years ,slight make up etc etc so my life is different from your and I won't be changing my stance.
Plus Im straight,, I don't mind your clothes but it would be wrong of me to be with someone who thinks/wishes they were a woman.it wouldn't work.
If you do not believe me about the double standard issue the GGs have spoken about it in the ask a GG thread..so Its not just me..
I realize you are frustrated about your situation but many men DO do dress in very androgynous ways if they cannot wear a miniskirt ...
About the fabled double standard...starts at post 151
https://www.crossdressers.com/forums...GG-Three/page7
My responses always seem to hit a nerve.. if you are spending more time with your alter ego than your wife, only you can change that.
Last edited by Dutchess; 04-29-2022 at 05:42 PM.
IG : Knightress Oxide
I live alone so there is no deception or cheating issues to discuss.
And even if I had an SO, I don't dress to turn myself on OR to attract anyone, and would never 'date' a guy anyway, so it wouldn't be cheating then either. Nor would there be deception, because I'd tell her if/when things became serious.
Last edited by Wendy-Lyn; 04-29-2022 at 06:32 PM.
I do not think it is cheating, it is more like stealing some of your family time from others. I am lucky. I live alone, but sometimes I do feel as if I am stealing from my children, partly because they do not like my life style.
Leslie Mary Shy
Remember this:
You do not have to be a man to love a woman, or be a woman to love women's clothes on her or yourself.
_________________________
Surely you must realize that in your location (Hollywood, for crying out loud!) societal standards are radically different from the other 99% of the country. In the numerous cities and regions of the country where I've lived and recently traveled, trust me, the double standard is alive and well. Also, the Hollywood men who wear skirts (sometimes just kilts) or dresses always have facial hair and short hair on their heads, perhaps because they don't want their manhood doubted or questioned. (Billy Porter and Dan Levy come to mind.) And FYI, I do not have an alter ego. Larissa is an integral part of me, so your suggestion about how I spend my time is baseless. I spend most of my free time with my lovely wife, regardless of what I'm wearing.
Last edited by Larissa Cassandra; 04-29-2022 at 07:41 PM.
Mod note:
If you have already responded to the OP in this thread, don't argue with others how they feel. Everyone has a different opinion, but it doesn't mean keep commenting on other opinions.
Warning: If this continues, your posts will be deleted.
This line from Dutchess kinda says what I was going to say, but I'll say it anyway...
Responding too the OP's question of "Is it cheating?" Well, I'd have to say that it can be - sort of.
Are you more interested in spending time with "HER" (your female side) than you do with your SO?
Does your time with "HER" involve sexuality - perhaps even to the extent of your SO getting less attention?
Do you find yourself wanting your SO to look or act more like "HER?"
If your SO is not OK with "HER", do you find time/ways to sneak in some time with "HER?" Is she finding "HER" things around the house?
I could go on, but I think I've made my point. From the SO's perspective, how is this significantly different from cheating?
In a sense, she is losing her man to another woman, one she can't exactly say "stop seeing."
It must be tough - especially for those ladies who truly lose their loved one to the pink fog.
I just wish that we could make the ladies of the world understand that so many of us would cherish you forever if you could only find a way to embrace the totality of who we are. We're not evil, freaks, or perverts.
What we are is UNIQUE - just like everyone else.
Wow! There are certainly various opinions on this subject. Wrote a brief comment a few days ago and still agree with it, but, since then i sort of re-enforced part of my opp. Today, my wife made a comment about a person who was involved with a particular situation many years ago. She commented that a guy was weird for several reasons, one was cause he was a CDer. I just said, oh, he?s not weird cause of being a CD, but is for the other issue, which was being jealous of his son?s success and that he was a hypocrite. Anyway, my point being, I don?t consider myself weird but she would if I shared with her. I had no trouble sharing I was Bi, but have reservations about this. Besides, I think people should have their own space which includes things that are private, as long as one is not hurting or causing pain from their thing. I consider this my space, etc. Also, besides, thinking she may already have suspicions.
Additionally, I tend to agree with some of Larrisa?s points of view.
Thanks,
Jess
I won't challenge your assertion, but in my experience, there's always something that's suspected, especially when there's a real lack of satisfying (for both parties) sexual intimacy. In and of itself, that lack of intimacy creates a kind of suspicion.
And there you have it, from a previously married GG's mouth and loaded with the truth of experience. The lack of intimacy already creates problems/suspicions and -- even without proof of physical infidelity -- the feeling arises that one is being cheated on because sexual arousal now comes from an alternate, unknown source. This kind of infidelity wouldn't hold up in any legal sense but, emotionally, it has a powerful relationship-altering effect.
My conclusion is that, yes, it is "cheaty" when defined in the way Dutchess has above.
Agreed, but the case of the fetish dresser is rather a subset of the wide variety of TG people here. Nevertheless, your complaint is valid for any partner who feels like their relationship is impacted in that way. While I still would not equate it with infidelity, it can be just as destructive.
Calling bigotry an "opinion" is like calling arsenic a "flavor".
Crossdressing may well be considered cheating by your wife or SO if she feels neglected or unsatisfied.
I honor my wife's request that I not post pictures.
"I don't know, you all tell me...." Dutchess at #35, posted right after my post at #34.
I've read Dutchess' comments over the years, and, all I can say is, if I was her I would have dumped the guy. Marriage is more than a sex act. Unfortunately, I have known too many marriages that have ended in divorce, even though the sex act was there. What was usually lacking was intimacy. Sort of get your rocks off, and roll over and go to sleep. I totally agree with Dutchess. If a guy wants to adopt a female personna at the peril of losing his wife and not attending to her needs for intimacy, the marriage is doomed. The sex act does not equate to intimacy. If your idea of intimacy is to get en femme and get your rocks off when your partner is not on board with that, then you definitely need some marriage counseling. Don't get hung up on a word; look at the situation.
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