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Thread: Sometimes I Wonder

  1. #1
    Silver Member Sandi Beech's Avatar
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    Sometimes I Wonder

    Sometimes I wonder if only things could have been different in my life. I have posted about plenty out my outings at clubs. I went clubbing again tonight, and it was a lot of fun as typical but does have me pondering something.

    I was dancing with several women after the drag show, and I was tapped on the shoulder by another woman who wanted to dance with me. I turned and we danced a while and it became somewhat physical. Not really sexual , but leaning toward the suggestive side - all her doing I might add. After we finished dancing she wanted my phone number and told me she loved me. Weird because that is not the first time I heard that after only a brief interaction. I am spoken for and only there for some fun, but it did have me thinking about what it would be like to be married to someone as accepting as this woman.

    There have been a number of posts about cheating lately. Personally, despite the fact I am out dancing with women one third my age and behind my wife?s back, I do NOT consider it cheating in the classic sense. The whole concept of crossdressing itself as cheating is distasteful to me. In my case, it would never have happened if she could have just thrown me a small bone, but it was not to be.

    Of course I can hear my wife saying - oh so it is all my fault. No, I take ownership of what I do. I just do not understand why after 3 plus decades, the trust bonds are not strong enough to withstand even the smallest amount of crossdressing in private. So I do this in secret for the sole reason of conflict avoidance. I wish things could be different, but I have to admit that I have had experiences that many could only dream of. I should count my blessings but still ponder what could have been.

    Just my thoughts at 3 AM.

    Sandi

  2. #2
    Senior Member Debbie Denier's Avatar
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    After 3 decades married and a non accepting wife I understand how you feel Sandie.Your life is the reverse of mine . I did the clubbing over 35 years ago before I was married. I would not get away with it now or have the energy. If the wife does not like it and thinks its not normal you cant change her opinion.She married a man . Thats my wifes view which I think is the same as your wifes.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Kris Burton's Avatar
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    One of the reasons I enjoy hearing of your "adventures" so much is that you are doing something that I know I never will, and yet desire. As supportive and even at times participatory as my wife has been, she has drawn the line at going out publicly. I have not even mentioned the notion of clubbing; I'm pretty sure that would be more than a bridge to far for us. Yet, I can't help but think of how wonderful and freeing that would be.

    Most of us who have a wild side explored that as younger people. I do, but I know I never did for fear of doing so. I'll have to be satisfied with CDing being that exploration, and it is...it has helped me greatly dealing with such regrets. It's wonderful to be able to go up to the line, to do something so many consider taboo, and not cross over. My wife is fully aware of my Cding, and I know where the lines are drawn, so there is no deception which relieves so much stress. But I'll tell ya, if the opportunity and situation ever arises...yeah, I'm out...I admit it freely.

    So do we have a "grass is always greener" scenario here? Hmmm...

    Kris

  4. #4
    Member Terrihoney's Avatar
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    Did you give her your number? That would be cheating on your wife, even if she never called. Congratulations, you pass in public and got hit on by a lesbian.

    Terri
    Putting the 'Fun' back in dysfunctional.

  5. #5
    Silver Member Sandi Beech's Avatar
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    Hey, thanks Debbie and Kris. I think that was my beer writing my post last night. This morning my headache is doing the writing.

    It was a fun evening. The club was jam packed so you could hardly move at times. With the number of people in the place, it became so hot I had sweat running down my face. Not good, but nobody cared as everyone was sweating. Yuck.

    I did get a lot of dancing in which is always fun. Now I just have to get back home so I can get some rest. Clubbing is exhausting ; )

    Sandi


    ?-
    Oh and I do not give out my number to anyone. My whole thing is social interaction, but I like to leave it at the door when the evening is done. I have no communication with others outside of the clubs.
    Last edited by Sandi Beech; 06-04-2022 at 06:37 AM.

  6. #6
    Silver Member Maria 60's Avatar
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    I love reading about your exciting outings lately I can only wish. I don't know much about your relationship with your wife is but I can't understand how you get out of the house and party to all hours and she doesn't know. That gives me a huge applause from me, my wife is a hawk she knows when one of my hairs are out of place.
    I don't know where to draw the line, cheating to me is when you have an affair, where does grinding dancing and touching and maybe kissing fit in. It's a fine line and if you can dirty dance and maybe touch and little and have the control not to take all the way, again I applaud you because I don't know if I had that control.
    Sometimes what could have been maybe wouldn't have been if she knew, my wife can't understand why she pushes me and I hold back, maybe it would be more fun and exciting to me if it was a secret after all isn't that the fun of cheating, it's the secret that makes it exciting. The way I see if I'm understanding it right that she knows you want to crossdress and wont give you any chance at all, I don't see a problem she should be fair. Then again I don't know you or your relationship with your wife all I know is it sounds like your enjoying life and respecting your wife and maybe just dipping at the chocolate ice cream and not eating it all. Looking forward to reading about more of your bold, confidence experiences.
    Last edited by Maria 60; 06-04-2022 at 06:38 AM.

  7. #7
    Silver Member Sandi Beech's Avatar
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    Hey Maria,

    I had detailed my story a couple of years ago, but the essence of it is that I tried little things for many years like leg shaving and wearing pantyhose only to be on the receiving end of her wrath over it. One time she found my pantyhose and left them out for me to find that she had cut them into tiny pieces. She made her point. I finally decided to not quit, but not force it upon her. As a result it went places I never would have thought possible.

    I am in a unique situation that I have to travel extensively for work. Were it not for that, I would be like many of our sisters who get zero opportunity to crossdress.

    Sandi

  8. #8
    Silver Member Elizabeth G's Avatar
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    What if the shoe was on the other foot? What if your wife was going out clubbing behind your back? Would she be cheating? It's one thing to indulge in crossdressing while you're away given the lack of acceptance at home but this takes it to a whole new level.

  9. #9
    Silver Member Sandi Beech's Avatar
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    Elizabeth,

    I am not saying what I do is right for a relationship by any means. I am saying it would absolutely never have gone where it went if I had had even a small amount of acceptance at home.

    Sandi

  10. #10
    formerly: aBoyNamedSue IamWren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandi Beech View Post
    Personally, despite the fact I am out dancing with women one third my age and behind my wife?s back, I do NOT consider it cheating in the classic sense. The whole concept of crossdressing itself as cheating is distasteful to me. In my case, it would never have happened if she could have just thrown me a small bone, but it was not to be.
    I think the amount of mental gymnastics required to make this statement and for others be supportive of your antics is staggering. I am dumbfounded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth G View Post
    What if the shoe was on the other foot? What if your wife was going out clubbing behind your back?
    I mean c’mon Sandi… have you really tried to imagine the scenario and if you would consider the action cheating.

    Let’s say on one of your out of town business trips your wife dresses to the nines, goes to a club and a guy, quite a bit younger than her, buys her drinks. Let’s add to the scene… he’s good looking, in town on business from Italy. Yeah… a good looking Italian gym rat and she’s dancing with him and others. It gets really flirty, a little physical on the dance floor and kinda sweaty.

    You expect us to believe (as you said above) you do NOT consider it cheating?
    I am not a woman nor am I a man... I am an enby. Hi, I am Wren.

  11. #11
    Platinum Member kimdl93's Avatar
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    A little more than decade ago I began to venture out fully en femme. My wife was working out of town 4 days a week so I had frequent opportunities. I was not and still am not much of a dancer, so I mostly went to clubs to socialize. I was approached and spent a lot of time talking with a surprising number of women, straight, gay and bi, who simply found something interesting in me and my life?whether they perceived me as a cross dresser or as as a transgender person. Yes, I did have opportunities to continue those conversations, but did not follow through due to my marriage.

    However, my point is these outings all occurred in secret. I never told my wife I was dressing up and going out. She knew of and to a degree tolerated my cross dressing at home, but would have been livid if she had known at the time that I was even leaving our yard dressed as a woman, let alone socializing. She did not learn that until after we divorced, but I am convinced that the secrecy itself, the other life I was living, coupled with the parallel life she was living on those weekly work trips caused us to grow apart.

  12. #12
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    Wren, define "cheating."

    While I was contemplating my thoughts, Kim posted. I'll add,

    Maybe the situation should be described in the same manner as that television show, "What would you do?"

    Kim brings up an extension of the issue; Is there a violation of trust? Not all boundaries between a husband and a wife have to be engraved in granite. Many are implied. I know there is a lot of self justification; "Well, she did not say I couldn't do it, so it must be alright."

    Forget the fact Sandi or Kim was en femme. The clothing is really immaterial.
    Last edited by Stephanie47; 06-04-2022 at 10:22 AM.

  13. #13
    Platinum Member kimdl93's Avatar
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    I do not mean to excessively beat a dead horse, but then, its dead, so why not. Indeed the clothing is immaterial. The fact that I was having fairly intimate conversations with women, and from my wifes own acknowledgement, she was having similar conversations with men she met through work, the fact is that we were both somewhat open to something that we were apparently no longer giving to each other…and I don’t mean sex…the sex tapered off, but never ended. It seems we just were not into each other as we had been a decade and a half early. It was a warning sign we both chose to ignore.

    In retrospect, I am sorry that I did not see the signs earlier, and did not dare to have the frank conversations earlier. I am not at all sure that the course of events would have been different, but at least we would not have been hiding from each other.

    Now I need to finish by acknowledging that this is just my experience, although I know similar situations have occurred in many other marriages. I am a bit fearful that I may be projecting my experience onto Sandi’s…and that would be an error.
    Last edited by kimdl93; 06-04-2022 at 12:20 PM.

  14. #14
    Platinum Member alwayshave's Avatar
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    Sandi, I am sure you are aware that cheating is what ever your wife defines it as. That being said, going out and having some fun that does not involve you having a relationship sexual or emotional does not constitute cheating in my humble opinion. I know others may disagree. If going out and dancing gives you some comfort that makes the rest of your life more tolerable, go for it.
    Please call me Jamie, I always_have crossdressed, I always will, "alwayshave".

  15. #15
    Aspiring Member Fiona_44's Avatar
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    Sandi,

    I commend you for being so open about your feelings, for being so honest about your crossdressing experiences and for not crossing the line sexually with others while out dressed. Not knowing you or your wife, I am not qualified to discuss your relationship but want you to know that I and many others here support you as you continue to wrestle with these questions.

    Hugs,
    Fiona
    "I may be going to hell in a bucket baby but at least I'm enjoyin' the ride!" - Grateful Dead

  16. #16
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    U reminded me how lucky I am, Sandi! I'm able to go out and have many similar experiences with young women as yours. With a couple of big differences!

    The women r 1/4th my age and I'm single!

    But, while they have been open minded, forward, and friendly? I'm too old for them to hit on unless they're smashed!
    Which I'm happy about. Because I have no interest in "dating" women that young!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  17. #17
    Silver Member Sandi Beech's Avatar
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    I did not intend this to be another "cheating thread". My whole intent on joining this site is to share cross-dressing experiences, but since I let the cat is out of the bag, I think I realize why there is a disconnect among many of us with regard to the "C" word.

    In my mind "Cheating" - designated here with a capitol C as the equivalent of an affair - one night stand or longer, and "cheating" designated with a lower case c as anything else lumped into the dishonest, deceiving, lie by omission, etc., etc., category.

    Other than context, we can not separate to which we are referring. If someone told my wife I have been cheating, her follow up would likely be "so who is he having an affair with? You are going to trigger different connotations based on context. (Example: He is cheating on a test - cheating yes but not the same thing)

    So yes, lower case "cheating", I would be guilty as charged, but upper case "Cheating" - No, that is NOT what I am doing when I go clubbing. I am not trying to engage in anything other than entertainment and acceptance.

    As for a spouse's view of the difference between the two, "Cheating" would always be a marriage killer if you ask me, but "cheating" would be in the eyes of the beholder as to what
    severity is. Broken trust is certainly enough to destroy any marriage. In the end, the reveal could have the same outcome, but not necessarily.

    In the end, compromise and rules limiting cross-dressing would be a better and safer than what I have come up with, But this is the sort of thing that can happen if either one or both are
    unable or unwilling to adjust. There is a risk of divorce whereas forcing it is certain disaster for some who can not accept it - that would be my wife.

    FYI, I am not engaging in any more discussions regarding what is and is not cheating. It is just not what I am hear for.

    Sandi

  18. #18
    Gold Member Crissy 107's Avatar
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    Sandi, I totally understand what you are saying. If I have an affair behind my wife’s back that is Cheating, capital C. If if finish the ice cream as soon as my wife goes to bed, that may be cheating small c. Big difference but some here will never get it.
    I know what your intent was when you started this last night but unfortunately it has gone off the rails which also unfortunately is not uncommon.
    Crissy

  19. #19
    Senior Member TheHiddenMe's Avatar
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    Hope your hangover is better.

    My two cents.

    1. I thought this is a crossdressing forum. I can't understand why the cheating threads haven't been moved elsewhere. Crossdressing is NOT cheating in any sense of the word.

    2. Sandi, you're not cheating. You are doing what you need to do to stay married and stay sane.

    3. Let's say that instead of going clubbing dressed you went to a strip club while out of town. Would the Neanderthals on this board consider that cheating too? Is your wife allowed to prohibit that too? How about dinner with a female colleague? Is that cheating too?

    4. All the "what ifs" in the world aren't going to change things. If you are unhappy with your life, then change it. If not, continue doing what your doing. Your wife doesn't own you and you don't own your wife.

    My wife chooses where to spend her time. She spends a couple of extra months in Australia. During 2020 we were apart for 7 months due to Covid; her choice. She knows I dress. She knows I have female friends, ones I don't have sex with. We make our marriage work, flaws and all.

    5. I have GG friends. I have been in their homes with them alone. They've been in my house when we've been alone. We have done nothing inappropriate and I will do it again. I've been out to restaurants, bars, clubs, and plays with them. They like my company and I like theirs.

    6. You have done nothing inappropriate. Your wife doesn?t want you going out. You compromise and do it when you are out of town with people she will never meet or even know about. It makes you happier so you are a better husband than you otherwise would be.

    Yes, you'd rather be able to level with your wife. That is NEVAH gonna happen. Just keep doing what you are doing, because in the end the ONLY opinion that matters is yours.
    I'm Sun-Dee at Kandi's Land; read about my outings here:

    https://www.kandis-land.com/author/dee/

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth G View Post
    What if the shoe was on the other foot? What if your wife was going out clubbing behind your back? Would she be cheating? It's one thing to indulge in crossdressing while you're away given the lack of acceptance at home but this takes it to a whole new level.
    Is it really any different then going to a bar? I use to get accused of cheating if I went out to eat dinner when I was away. Not sure what I eas suppose to do staying in cheap motel rooms but maybe that's why we didn't work out.

  21. #21
    Member OrdinaryAverageGuy's Avatar
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    Sandi, you're not cheating in any sense of the word. You go on a business trip, sitting in a hotel room is boring and miserable. So you go to the bar, do some dancing, and don't take anyone back to your room or even to the bathroom (that would be cheating). What you happen to be wearing really doesn't make any difference, you have to wear something, after all. Unless your wife has specifically told you not to wear a dress to the bar, and you agreed not to, you're doing nothing wrong.

    There's music that I like that my wife hates. I can't play it with her around. So I play it when we're not together, that's not cheating either, it's letting me enjoy something harmless without offending my wife.

    I wish I had the guts, and the energy, and the dancing skills, to do what you do!

  22. #22
    Miss Conception Karren Hutton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandi Beech View Post

    I am in a unique situation that I have to travel extensively for work. Were it not for that, I would be like many of our sisters who get zero opportunity to crossdress.

    Sandi

    Girlfriend, if things were different and you were freely allowed to do this, it might not be as exciting as it it now is? I know for me that doing things that were forbidden, heightened the excitement when I went out enfemme.

    PS: Do not ever retire form that job! You have it made!

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