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Thread: Beyond Clothes: Body Dysphoria and Envy

  1. #1
    Aspiring Member NancyJ's Avatar
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    Beyond Clothes: Body Dysphoria and Envy

    I love feminine clothes, but I also love the female body. Most of my life I have struggled with a discomfort with my male body parts. I often literally dream and daydream about having “female parts” (to keep this G - rated). When I look at a women (including my wife) with “well-formed” breasts, I envy them. And my big feet: hate them. I am not a foot fetishist, but I so wish I had smaller, more delicate feet like a woman that really looked stunning in heels!

    I know that this dysphoria, although not severe enough to push me to transition, is why I prefer to tuck, and why I feel best when wearing my forms. As I have gotten older, I have realized that I am further down the trans continuum than “just a crossdresser.” Of course I realize that even if I were to transition, endure all the surgeries, lose my marriage, etc., etc., I could never change my over six foot frame, big feet, much of my facial structure, etc.

    Do not misunderstand me, by now I have accepted that I am a man and I have the body I have. I just do not like it. And I admire women like my wife.

    I know that many, maybe most, crossdressers have no body dysphoria about their male bodies and are “into it” for just the clothes. Not me. Not looking for advice. Just sharing, and curious how many others might have similar feelings. Nancy
    Last edited by NancyJ; 07-01-2022 at 08:28 PM.

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    i can identify with that.

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    Senior Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    I hear you Nancy. I feel very much the same way. But, like you, I have accepted the Y chromosome and what it resulted in PHYSICALLY. But emotionally and mentally I can still show the female-like traits and characteristics that seem to be overly abundant in my personality. I can still be a guy when I need to be, but it is not as comfortable. I have found that people, mostly women but also some men, like that combination as it is not typical male. For me it still falls a bit short in some ways but so long as I cannot completely divorce myself from that dastardly chromosome I can still do the next best thing that fits my overall circumstances. For those who transition, I admire them greatly. My dysphoria does not lead me in that direction. For me, being female-like is much more a matter of behavior than appearance. Some women look rather masculine, but they still have the behaviors. So for a male to emulate that can still fit rather nicely.

  4. #4
    Miss Conception Karren Hutton's Avatar
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    Yeah! Welcome to the club. I have been this way for decades and it is getting worse. Do not plan to transition but have been working on modifying my body. And continue to. Hence my 36D breasts. Did not want implants or to take hormones. It?s a challenge but I am committed to continue.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Kris Burton's Avatar
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    Nancy - you touch upon something I've been thinking about quite a bit. Although I do not suffer from gender dysphoria as you describe - I am OK with my male self and am quite sure I am not transgender - I am not "into it" only for the clothes. I want to portray a female image as best as I can, and that encompasses all aspects of the female form. As such, I look in the mirror and focus on those aspects which I believe are lacking and unfairly compare myself to the very best among us crossdressers and, perhaps worse, ciswomen I consider beautiful. It is that image I want to portray, yet know I never will. As such, I fall into the same negative patters that teenage girls suffer from , leading them to anorexia, bulimia, unnecessary body alterations and plastic surgery, and of course depression.

    I'm hardly a psychologist or gender therapist, and I do not doubt for a moment body or gender dysphoria is prevalent in our community, or is what you are experiencing. I'm just wondering if this body "dysmorphia" - which I cannot recall anyone speaking of here - plays a role in your and others thinking .
    www.flickr.com/people/194195593@N05/

  6. #6
    Silver Member Maria 60's Avatar
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    On one of my post I asked my wife how she felt if I was to go to a crossdressers social club dinner. Her first reaction and comment was if I was ready to face the public. Her main intention was and told me it doesn't matter how much make-up or wigs I'm a man. She was preparing me for I'm going to stand out, I'm over six feet tall with heels and if I was head strong and confident enough.
    I know exactly where your coming from and the latest thing was my wife bought me a pair of sandle shoes with a heel. Even though the size was right my foot is big and over hangs and the toes are all sticking out and my heel of my foot is huge. I told my wife to return them but she is much more realistic thinking and told me to keep them and enjoy them they look great on me.
    She told me if I decide to ever go out not to concentrate as much on passing and more on just dressing decent and respectful. I believe she right and I guess we just have to try to look as fem as we can and maybe wear curtain things that can accomplish that. Don't get discouraged and try to enjoy every opportunity we get, but I do understand your pain.

  7. #7
    Aspiring Member NancyJ's Avatar
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    Kris, I know you are trying to be helpful, but what I am describing is clearly NOT body dysmorphic disorder: which is a mental illness having to do with an obsessive concern about a perceived flaw with one’s appearance, such as someone who has multiple plastic surgeries for their nose, or someone who will not leave the house because of a blemish on their cheek. Unfortunately, many times conservatives try to portray gender dysphoria as a mental illness. What I am describing is quite different. As someone who worked in health care for nearly 40 years, trust me, I know the difference. Nancy

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    Senior Member Sandi Beech's Avatar
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    I know what you mean to some degree. Although I do not think about it so much when in male mode, while dressed up I wish I had smaller hands, feet, and a smaller neck. At least I can partially hide my neck with a long wig but obviously there is nothing I can do about it.

    I do admire the female body as a work of art, and I suspect it is part of the allure of crossdressing for me. I just do the best I can do with what I have to work with, and it seems to be good enough for me. Right now I am just wishing I could be a few years younger.

    Sandi

  9. #9
    Girl Power! CrossKimmy's Avatar
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    I see what you mean by envy. My dysphoria is my skin softness and body hair. I so wish I could be permanently hairless on my body. But I also feel like you where it?s deeper and that I desire to have a full female body including the parts as you say.

  10. #10
    New Member traciJ's Avatar
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    I feel so much the same way and more so now that I am getting older. I am checking out women all the time with total envy. I have evolved from fetishist to CD to now wanting hormones especially since I have been feeling the effects of the natural decline in T at my age and I love it. I workout and starve myself with the goal of gaining a more feminine hourglass shape so I can fit in women's clothes styles.
    Traci

  11. #11
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    I feel for u Nancy. I struggled with similar feelings for over 10 years!

    Then I bought my 1st silicone, female, suit! Seeing myself with what appeared to be a real naked, female, body absolutely blew me away!

    Within a week my dysphoria vanished!

    That was 15 years ago. Now, whenever I feel the need to see a woman, naked or not, in my mirror, I can!
    I know that wouldn't work for most of u? But, it did for me!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  12. #12
    Silver Member Debra Russell's Avatar
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    I am in this catagory also - envy women want to be one but not dysphoria 60 Yr ago if society had been more accepting a differnt path may have been chosen. I am completly hetrosexual and do not fantasize about men but do fantasize about being a woman. I have a fullfilling life as a male and loving wife (not a fan of my femm side, but somewhat understands) still it feels like something is missing. .....................................Debra

  13. #13
    Member Fiona_44's Avatar
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    Nancy,

    I have been a girl-watcher and admirer of the female form all my life and, as Sandi said, it can truly be a work of art. However, I am not as far along the trans continuum as you, I am indeed just a cross dresser. I found your post very interesting because you very clearly explained your feelings as to your level of discomfort with your male body and it helped me better understand the various stages of discomfort many CD's experience, some of which lead to total transformations. I am very lucky in that my genes have given me a tall, thin body with medium-sized hands & feet. I am virtually hairless from the neck down and have a sparse beard with a lot of gray in it so 5 o'clock shadow isn't a concern. So I can switch into looking female without too much concern about male attributes giving me away. Like most CD's, I could use a little more hip & butt padding but have not bought any as of yet. I am content to look as feminine as possible and be comfortable while doing so.

    Fiona
    YOLO

  14. #14
    Aspiring Member Debbie Denier's Avatar
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    Hi Nancy , I completely understand and get where you are coming from . I feel the same regarding the size of my feet being 6ft tall etc. I feel it has got worse as I have gotten older. I feel as though I could pull this off better when I was younger. I couldn?t understand why I was attracted to women but wanted to be like one. Heterosexual but confused as a young man. Got married had kids thought it would go away but has come back stronger.I accept my situation and do not want to transition . But like you hate parts of my body.

  15. #15
    Aspiring Member Heather76's Avatar
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    I'm somewhere in this discussion. I'm just not entirely sure exactly where I fall. I am a man who crossdresses. I do not want to be a woman. BUT, I want to wear their clothing all day long, every day. I have always admired the female body. The more ample the breasts, the better. I suspect that's why I like wearing bras and forms as much as I do. Maybe I suffer from "breast envy." When I have forms in place, I wish they were the real thing; but, I don't want the real thing when I don't want them. I know I would never pass. However, I still hope/want to experience being dressed in public. I've no idea what I will gain from the experience. I'm hoping I will gain a sense of freedom doing something I think I will enjoy without suffering any ill effects. Other than having added about 20 extra pounds over the past 50 years, I have no issues with my male body. It has served me relatively well over my lifetime.

    I started this journey because of the clothes. Wearing lace panties was GREAT! However, as time has moved on, I find that, while I certainly enjoy the clothes, I have a greater sense of calmness when I'm dressed. I like that feeling.
    It's never too late to enjoy a happy childhood.
    Live each day as though it's your last 'cause one day you'll be right.
    I'm finding the more feminine side of me...and I ❤️ this adventure.

  16. #16
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    I am in exactly the same place. I have nothing to offer. Sadly, it is what it is. :-(

  17. #17
    Aspiring Member SaraLin's Avatar
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    I too, long for a female - or at least "feminine" body.
    The one I'm stuck in is put together all wrong. It has parts I don't want, and is missing parts I wish it did have. The rest of them are either too big, too hairy, or not hairy enough.

    After realizing that even hormones weren't going to "fix" things, I gave up.
    I pretty much gave up on the male body I do have, too. I'm overweight, out of shape, and balding.
    And I can't get seem to get motivated to do anything about it.

  18. #18
    Member JennyMay's Avatar
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    Like others have said, I certainly recognise those feelings. I really wish I had been born a girl and had the experience of growing up as a girl. I didn’t and nothing I can do at sixty-odd years old can change that. That’s just the way things are.

  19. #19
    Aspiring Member NancyJ's Avatar
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    Thanks for all of these thoughtful and supportive responses. So many seem to have similar feelings. Of course I and others know that we have the body we have and we are not going to be women. One thing that has helped me, and I have grown to like very much, even though I know intellectually it makes no sense because I do not believe in gender role stereotypes, is that in our marriage I have taken on more of the traditionally "women's work." Although I do not believe in my heart and mind that there really is such a thing, because I grew up in the 60's when boys did outside work and my sister was the one who did inside work and housework, I never learned how to do it. Now, my wife has taught me how to clean the house to her rather exacting standards and I am the one who does most of the domestic chores. She has taught me these skills. She does not like doing these things. She thinks it is crazy that I do like doing them, but somehow it makes me feel more "womanly" to clean house, fold clothes, clean the kitchen, etc., etc. She even lets me do it wearing a very feminine and frilly apron, so we both benefit.

  20. #20
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    I'm in the "plan vanilla cross dresser" category including big feet, six foot tall and 200 pounds. That's not a body type that will fly under the radar. It limits my comfort zone. Yes, in days of old I was six foot, 175 pounds of military muscle with blond way hair. Oh, I forgot to mention male pattern baldness has set in. There are times when I feel it would be nice to be five foot five with the aged appearance of a seventy year plus woman.

    I read all the time on this forum, "I wish I was born a girl." Not me,although, as I have stated many times, if I was born a girl that would have been alright too. Born post World War II, what would have been my role if I was born a woman? Knock out the babies every so many years? Work in some boring job? Basically, be a second rate citizen. Life for women was not June Cleaver or Harriet Nelson. It was a life of domestic chores and changing diapers.

    I gave up a long time ago trying to figure myself out. "I do not know why I do what I do." That's what I ended up telling my wife during "The Talk." Life would have been a lot simpler and without conflict if I was not drawn to this "NEED" to wear women's clothing and try to emulate the mannerism that seem to be associated with women. No male in his right mind in the 1960's would openly thrown himself into the scorn of society for being different, if it was not for some unseen motivation. Personally, I do not buy into "I'm in it for the beautiful clothes." I got shot down on this forum several years ago for that belief. Don't bother bringing me to task again. Oh, I love the beautiful colors and patterns. I have always loved colors and still do. I love tending the flower garden. My professional male attire was always color dress shirts and colorful ties. None of that white shirt with red "power" tie for me. Yes, I do get a sense of well being and comfort escaping the male world by entering a slightly different world. However, I go back and reflect on what my life would have been if I was born female. Yes, there definitely times when being a woman would have been better born a female, but, as a whole it was and is great being a husband, dad and grandfather.

    I have accepted who I am. I cannot change who I am. My problem in life is dealing with those around me, who seem to have problems accepting men like me.

    On a lighter note, yep, every evening I turn into Wheel of Fortune to watch that sixty-five year old woman strut in front of the puzzle board for a half hour. I'd love to be able to be have that body type and wear those beautiful clothes, but it is not to be. And, I am fairly sure the vast majority of GG's have the same sentiment as me.

  21. #21
    Platinum Member kimdl93's Avatar
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    Yeah I am in that same group?more towards the middle of the spectrum I suppose?.perhaps a bit past the middle. I am no longer married, but have a large extended family, and although some know a little and some know a lot more about my thing, its politely not discussed and at this stage in my life, I am growing more comfortable with living two separate lives.

  22. #22
    Aspiring Member MonicaPVD's Avatar
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    Big feet, hands, head, and broad shoulders essentially kept me from seriously considering transitioning when I was younger. It sounds silly but it's true. The irony is that when I am dressed and out, no one has ever ever said, hey you have big feet or hands. Lol. Never. Such is life.

  23. #23
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    I started seeing a therapist and have realized that I am really transgender. I want to be a woman.I?d rather have women's parts. I have had fantasies of losing my male parts for various reasons or having side effects from medication that cause gynecomastia. I get sad every time I see a woman knowing that I?ll never look like them and her outfit would never look good on my body.

    But right now I know that I?d be worse off and sad if I did transition as it would mean losing a lift that I?ve spent decades building.

    Here?s some interesting reading that I found on my journey of self-discovery. It?s a great resource and talks to a lot of the thoughts and concerns mentioned in posts above.
    https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en

    Hugs

  24. #24
    Aspiring Member NancyJ's Avatar
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    We all share so much in common. Thank you, Stephanie, for sharing your story. Thank you, fly, for the link. A good resource for girls who are just learning about themselves.

    I have shared this story in the past on this forum, but I am going to share it again here because I think it is relevant to this topic. This is the moment that I first began considering/realizing/admitting to myself that I was transgender: It was about twenty-five years ago and I was on a business trip. I had planned in advance to get a makeover at a transformation studio and spend four hours trying on various outfits there, then going on an escorted shopping trip, then out for a casual dinner "en femme" for my first time out. I had exchanged several emails with the gal who was going to do the transformation and my anticipation (and anxiety) was sky-high by the time I arrived. She greeted me by my femme name, Nancy, and after chatting for a few minutes, she had me start to get out of drab and into femme. She offered me a set of silicone forms, which I'd never worn prior to that time.

    Fast forward, after an extended makeup session, and trying on several wigs, she brought me to a room with multiple racks of dresses, evening gowns, etc., and we picked out several to play "dress up," and a couple more modest outfits for our evening out. I was in "seventh heaven" as I tried on these outfits, she zipped me up, made comments about fit, style, etc. We started talking about gender. She asked me if I was trans. I remember saying, "No, I'm just a crossdresser."

    She laughed (not in a mean way, but more in a sympathetic way) and said, "Sure honey, whatever you want to tell yourself. I've been watching you try on these outfits for the last hour, seen the look in your eyes, I think there might be a little more going on inside of you."

    Through the rest of the evening, as we drove to a shopping mall and sat together sharing a Thai dinner, we talked about gender, my feelings as a child, being dressed as a woman, my wishes, what it meant to be transgender, etc., in a way that I had never done with anyone ever in my life. It opened my eyes and my mind. When I returned home I began reading more about transgender and I realized that I was (and always had been) “more than a crossdresser." I am trans. I have chosen not to transition for multiple reasons the most important being my marriage and my love for my wife. We have worked out an arrangement that works for us.

    I am very, very grateful for that transformation -- it transformed me in many ways. It was the first time that I saw myself as a woman. The picture in my avatar is from a subsequent transformation experience many years later. I know that I can "look like a woman" as far as my face, but my body is a man's body, and I will continue to honor my commitment to my marriage. My wife accepts what she can about my gender "confusion" (as she sees it). Nancy
    Last edited by NancyJ; 07-03-2022 at 07:15 AM.

  25. #25
    Member Fiona_44's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting that wonderful story Nancy. After reading your posts throughout this thread I seems to me that you are indeed in a very good place emotionally. You have a good understanding of the important trans issues that have impacted you personally, you are comfortable knowing exactly who you really are and you have your priorities straight (ie. commitment to marriage). Thank you for sharing your thoughts & feelings in this thread, I have found them very interesting.

    Fiona
    YOLO

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