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Thread: Do people really in the real world actually care? Are they bothered?

  1. #26
    Senior Member Jean 103's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Suranne;4605971]
    On the not being invited round to people's houses, I have been and am, I'm just me and they like me and that's what matters. Many people have also given me gifts and things to help me on my way. People have been really lovely.

    Exactly

    Love Jean

  2. #27
    Senior Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    Suranne, I think your post is wonderful and you do seem to have a balanced perspective on it all. And your recognition that it is not the same everywhere is respectful and considerate. As can be seen by all the varied responses it is abundantly clear that the environment we move through varies tremendously. Big cities are sometimes more tolerant and even accepting, but more rural areas tend to be less so. That said it probably varies with the experience of individuals as we move between microenvironments that are intensely individualistic.

    To me, the message is that we need to recognize that we are, in the eyes of most people, different and in most social settings difference and its tolerance varies tremendously. And it is not just gender. I think the best message is "Dress appropriately for where you are, don't push bounaries that CIS women can't pass, treat people with respect," taken from your first post. Excellent!!!

    In general if you treat people the way you want to be treated, the remaining differences that could result in hostility will fade to some degree. But always be aware that upon first meeting that may not work and it is not your fault; some people are just plain hostile toward anything that deviates from what they believe should be. It is the should be perspective that produces the conflicting situation that can lead to trouble.

    Ten years ago the rule I learned is to do what a woman does to stay safe and double it. The world may have progressed to where the double it part has been reduced to adding 40% or 50% is workable in most places. But it remains that we are often not recognized as actual women and that is a difference that is, for some, a step too far. Be aware of your microenvironment as well as your environment. IMO, really good and fair posts from everyone and that reveals the wide range of our experiences to varying environments.

  3. #28
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    Gretchan you're quite right in all you say and thanks for the kind comments.

  4. #29
    Gold Member Lana Mae's Avatar
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    I live in the same town the former grand dragon of the NC KKK lives! I am out 24/7/365! I can count on one hand any bad reactions to Lana! I shop in most of the stores, pharmacies, pay my water bill, etc. I get greetings from people asking how I am etc. I take my car to be serviced! Positive reactions everywhere! I am out at work! My neighbors wave and say hello and good morning! I do not go to certain sections of town but most ciswomen wouldn't either! Situations vary a lot and you must do what you need to do for various reasons! Do what makes you feel right!
    Hugs Lana Mae
    Life is worth living!
    "Foxy lady! You look so good!!" Jimi Hendrix

  5. #30
    Reality Check
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    My worry is that there are enough knuckle dragging testosterone driven Neanderthals still rolling around out there.
    If we are asking for or hoping for tolerance, we must be more tolerant ourselves. Calling other people names doesn't move us any further towards acceptance, it has the opposite result.

    Think about it!
    Krisi

  6. #31
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    I'm sure where you live definitely matters. I live in a small conservative northern california town. Most of my friends are tolerant of trans people and treat them with respect in public. In private they mock them and make fun. I have no doubt I would be shunned if I ever came out to them. So I keep the majority of my dressed outings confined to the Bay Area or Sacramento where no one knows me. I've had nothing but good experiences down there. Seems like most people don't even notice me. Occasionally I'll get a double take or see someone smirking at me but most people literally don't notice. That's fine with me, my goal is just to be left alone when I'm out. When an SA compliments my outfit or hair it's really nice but there is no way to know what that person really feels. Are they being kind out of acceptance or because they've been programmed to be tolerant? I hope it's acceptance and the comments are genuine but I'll never know.

  7. #32
    Silver Member Natalie5004's Avatar
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    Nobody cares. Here is my latest example.

    Yesterday was my usual start, shower, shave then dress as Natalie. Almost full makeup. I put on lipstick, mascara and eyebrow pencil. In a few hours I received a call about a property I have for rent and can I show it this afternoon at 1 PM.

    I finished what I had to do for work in my home office. Then I changed into drab motorcycle clothes for the 125 mile trip to the rental. I spent 2 hours with the couple. Drove back home arriving at 10 pm. I washed my face and I realized I never removed my makeup. They must have thought that I was something else but there was not a word mentioned and even a side look. Well maybe the wife noticed it. I saw her looking intently at me at one moment when we were inside the home. She could have been thinking. "where did this guy learn these great makeup skills".

    My response again is the issue with being seen in public is really in your head.

  8. #33
    Senior Member kimmy p's Avatar
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    Many may not care. More than that will not notice unless clubbed over the head with it. The problem is that there is a large group that finds it VERY important. To The point of potential violence. Read the news. Bashing gays, trans, crossdressers it great sport to some groups. Usually in the name of " common morality and some religious passages that they feel gives them the right to cause harm". So please all, be yourselves but stay safe, especially with the always touchy restroom issues.

  9. #34
    Life is more fun in heels Genifer Teal's Avatar
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    Once again your location settings will matter. That said, I've been out and about since the weekend of 9/11 the original event. I was in New York City that Saturday at a party for us girls. I quickly branched out to going just about anywhere and everywhere I could get to. In all those hundreds of times going out taking the train to the city Etc Often by myself I can count five times that I had cause for concern that it could become a situation but it didn't.. so yes anything can happen and you can spend your life worrying about it but hundreds of times of enjoyment versus five potentially tense situations. You can only decide for yourself how to live your own life.

  10. #35
    Heather loves heels Heather2die4's Avatar
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    I agree with you. People have just moved on. I travel, go to restaurants and museums, check into hotels, and just generally enjoy being a girl about town. I've been spotted many times as I am over six feet tall (>183 cm) but it has never come to confrontation.

    I think CDers who try to get picked up are asking for trouble as that is unconsensual and puts the man in the akward situation of public humiliation. Some CDers just like the drama of being the victim and bring it on themselves. Then there are a few frat brats who have something to prove, but most people have just moved on.

    Of course, it helps to walk with condifence and carry yourself with dignity. If you can do that, confrontations should be a once in a decade thing. If they are more frequent, the girl should take an honest look at herself and fix the internal problem.

  11. #36
    Senior Member TheHiddenMe's Avatar
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    I'm from the midwest and I have found that most don't notice, and if they notice they don't care, and to the extent anyone has a reaction, the reaction has been positive.

    I've made friends while dressed. The friends of my friends are happy to meet me. I've told one person who only knew the boy me (I had my reasons) and she was grateful I was willing to trust her.

    The biggest risk to TG individuals are those in the sex trade. The second biggest risk is likely being mistaken for being female and being subject to the same risks as being female in the wrong place.

    But as the OP notes the biggest obstacle is not others but ourselves. It took me a long time to figure that out and get over it, but I did and I'm happy I did.
    I'm Sun-Dee at Kandi's Land; read about my outings here:

    https://www.kandis-land.com/author/dee/

  12. #37
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    It really depends where you are in the U.S. or world. In my neck of the woods absolutely people still care and CDers and TG are degenerates and an abomination to nature, society and most importantly their God?s will.

  13. #38
    Silver Member Natalie5004's Avatar
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    Today I felt pretty good about my makeup and outfit. So I went to Costco to buy gas then the grocery store for food for dinner. No looks, stares, glares, snide remarks, pitchforks. Just everybody going about their business.

    It is wonderful that I feel this free to express myself in this manner.

    20220915_102842.jpg

  14. #39
    Reality Check
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    OK folks, if "nobody cares", why are so many people hiding their crossdressing from their wives and girl friends? Why is there such a thing as a "DADT" relationship? Why have so many of us lost our wives over crossdressing?

    If you honestly think nobody cares, you are living in a very sheltered world.
    Krisi

  15. #40
    Silver Member Pumped's Avatar
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    People care, perhaps not many, but there is a lot of hatred for those that do not fit social guidelines.

    I mentioned it before, but a few months ago a feminine looking young man was assaulted in my city by a couple "god ol' boys".

    We hear right on this website of an occasional conflict with some passerby having issues with a CD'er.

    To say no one cares is burying your head in the sand!

    If you are willing to take the chance and have a strong enough personality to shun off the possible negative, then go for it, but IMO, you will have some sort of confrontation at some point. Might be as simple as a heckler passing by, but it could be worse.

    Personally for me, it is not worth the chance to dress 100% fem and venture out as I would not remotely pass.

  16. #41
    Senior Member TheHiddenMe's Avatar
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    Yes, there are a-holes everywhere--but a far bigger risk than perhaps running into an a-hole while dressed or being LGBT is just climbing into a car and driving somewhere while being a civilian. There were 42,000 car deaths, which includes about 7,500 pedestrian deaths and 1,000 bike deaths.

    What's a bigger risk, being dressed in a shopping mall in the middle of the day or walking along a dark road in the middle of the night?

    How many on this board ride motorcycles? Your risk of riding a motorcycle is far, far greater than being a CD out in public.

    I bike ride about 3,500 miles a year and I try to do most of that on bike trails or lightly traveled roads. Just like when I go out dressed, I try to be smart about it.

    I met individuals who have or are transitioning. One in the corporate world has said she's had no issues. One who ran a car repair business told me she lost about half her customers but she endured. Another was outed at work by a disgruntled employee but the employer backed her.

    Why hide? For me, because my wife, like some of you, fears the world will fall apart if people find out I CD. In her words, she worries that people will feel sorry for her because I CD. Out of respect for her, I don't tell people (I have told one person because she has a trans child and I thought I could be an ally for her, and it has turned out that way).

    Again, you can choose to live YOUR live with a rain cloud over your head or the sun shining over your head. I choose the latter, so tomorrow Dee will be having dinner at a bar where she is welcome and then going to a concert with 2,500 others in a damn cute outfit, doing something I've wanted to do for over 50 years and have done for the last 6 years.
    I'm Sun-Dee at Kandi's Land; read about my outings here:

    https://www.kandis-land.com/author/dee/

  17. #42
    Silver Member Pumped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHiddenMe View Post
    Yes, there are a-holes everywhere--but a far bigger risk than perhaps running into an a-hole while dressed or being LGBT is just climbing into a car and driving somewhere while being a civilian. There were 42,000 car deaths, which includes about 7,500 pedestrian deaths and 1,000 bike deaths.

    What's a bigger risk, being dressed in a shopping mall in the middle of the day or walking along a dark road in the middle of the night?

    How many on this board ride motorcycles? Your risk of riding a motorcycle is far, far greater than being a CD out in public.
    I doubt you will ever find any facts to support your claims, other than the dark road comment. Anyone would be in more danger walking down a dark road, male, female, or CD'err.

    Comparing CD'ing to car, pedestrian, or bike deaths is a bit of a stretch. Huge numbers of people do those activities every day where the number of CD'ers is relatively small, and how many actually leave the house.

    Like I mentioned here earlier, we have had posts of CD'ers getting hassled just in this small group and many of us never leave the house. I don't even fully dress and have comments about my choice of foot wear.

    I love to watch people. I can stop in a mall, sit or lean against the wall and watch people for hours. That said I have seen one crossdresser in the public over my lifetime. Sure, perhaps I might have missed a few that were very convincing, but I see bike riders, car drivers every day and hundreds of them, maybe thousands.

    It would be like saying that people that free climb up the sides of skyscrapers is safe because only a few die every year or two, but how many people free skyscrapers in a year, twenty? Fifty? A hundred? Less? More?

    If I could pass at twenty five feet in day light I would go out, but I wouldn't pass at twenty five feet in a dark alley, so I stay home. For those girls that have some reasonable level of passing go far it, but be aware for the hassle when it comes. For those girls that can pass in bright day light, face to face, I am jealous!

  18. #43
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    I've gone shopping and have made it known that the clothes, panties bras were for me. Only one time with an elderly woman have I had any issues. I have only started pushing the envelope just a tad. Recently, I went with my wife to pickup a to go order, not realizing she wanted me to go with her, I was wearing all enfem clothing, shorty shorts, female tank top, hair in a high ponytail, 1 earring and painted nails and a B cup bra. then she asked me to go in the store. Last time we did this she made me sit in the car. Anyway, as I was leaving I held the door for a lady coming in, she said thank you hun. I held the door for another gentleman and he replied thank you sir. So, who knows!!!
    Last edited by DeeDee67; 09-18-2022 at 09:10 AM.

  19. #44
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    I have not worn men's clothes in more then a year. The biggest reaction I got was when I used my debit card and was asked for ID. I got the look at ID then me then that's you? It was a four year old picture and u had facial hair and very short hair then. My experience is even if someone sees me as male what I am wearing doesn't matter. I stay away from the miro minis most of the time and try to always look somewhat normal.

  20. #45
    Senior Member TheHiddenMe's Avatar
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    Pumped,

    As to pedestrians, there have been lots of articles lately on the web about pedestrian deaths, such as this one today in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (may be a paywall).

    https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...itter_stltoday

    As to risks to TG individuals, here is an article in Forbes regarding TG murders.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewa...h=53a6fc9a321c

    The total? 375 worldwide.

    It found that most victims were Black and migrant trans women of colour and trans sex workers.

    ...

    Over half (58%) of those murdered were sex workers, and four in ten were European migrants (43%).
    The victims are at a much higher risk because they are sex workers, a POC, or migrants (likely because they left their home country because they are trans).

    Information like this usually comes up around the Transgender Day of Remembrance.

    Another quick Google search turned up the TG individual who died in a hit-and-run while walking to his job at Starbucks.

    As CDs, we're a LOT safer when there are more people around. Go to a shopping mall, and there is security, and lots of cameras (to prevent shoplifting). And there are people like you watching and able to call for security if anyone did choose to pick on a TG person.

    Again, when I go to Nordstrom, I'm at a much greater risk driving there than being there. It's the same for everyone reading this. Yet CDs will walk around parking lots at night which puts them at risk because they think avoiding people is safer. It's not (and yes, I did the walking around parking lots at night).

    Workers these days are trained to be tolerant of customers. I don't pass but I've never had a bad experience anywhere I've been. And if someone chose to make fun of me, so what? I'm not going to melt.

    Perception isn't reality.

    People are afraid of sharks. Do you know how many deaths from sharks in the US and worldwide in 2021? 1 and 9 respectively.

    Do you know the most deadly non-human?

    Mosquito born diseases, such as malaria, cause 725,000 deaths a year.

    The risk to white male CDs, the largest demographic group on this board, to dress and go out is far, far smaller than a lot of other risks they accept every day, like walking, driving, smoking, drinking, etc.
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    Last edited by char GG; 09-18-2022 at 08:50 PM. Reason: The topic of guns is not allowed
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    https://www.kandis-land.com/author/dee/

  21. #46
    Super Moderator char GG's Avatar
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    Mod note:

    I you have already given your opinion in this thread, don't go back and forth. Take it to PM if you feel the need to continue a discussion.

    Everyone has their own thoughts about this topic.
    Last edited by char GG; 09-18-2022 at 09:03 PM.

  22. #47
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    There's obviously a line between people we care about and the general public, who will most likely never see us again.

    Same reason super heros hide their identities.

    But really, it's a pointless argument if no one can see the difference between the two. I suppose for some or even most the nuclear option is not an option.

  23. #48
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    People don't care. A partner, girlfriend, spouse, etc. does care. They have every right to. An individual's right to choose what kind of person they partner with does not extend to the public's opinion of us. Comparing the two is disingenuous.
    Calling bigotry an "opinion" is like calling arsenic a "flavor".

  24. #49
    Crossdresser Taylor186's Avatar
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    Anyone who thinks that people generally don't care must not be paying attention to the news of yesterday and today.

  25. #50
    Senior Member Fiona_44's Avatar
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    We all know that there are certain areas of many towns or cities that a CD shouldn't venture into, especially a lone CD. If "nobody cares", just ignore that bit of common sense advice and hang out in those areas. What have you got to lose?
    "Care about what other people think of you and you will always be their prisoner" - Lao Tzu

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