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Thread: Drag Queens FINNALY make sense----A Personal Realization

  1. #1
    Resident Polymath MarinaTwelve200's Avatar
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    Drag Queens FINNALY make sense----A Personal Realization

    I realized something today. I call it "personal", because I am sure there will be a lot of people who will disagree or take offence, but I mean no harm. DRAG QUEENS have always puzzled me. 90% of them are gay, yet they enjoy dressing as women and are quite popular in clubs. However, they have always "Freaked ME out". There very appearance shouts to me "A MALE". All sorts of questions have come up in my mind--what is with these guys? what are they trying to do? But in designing my "Madam Leota" Halloween Costume, I noticed that the makeup seemed more like getting up as a clown rather than a "glam" technique. Perhaps I have been a bit "Slow on the uptake", or over analyzing the Drage queen Phenomena---I have recieved the SUDDEN realization, that DRAG QUEENS are actually a legit class of CLOWNS.

    Just as we have "August Clowns", "Whiteface Clowns", "Tramp Clowns", "Mimes", etc., for different venues, Drag Queens are essentially CLOWNS too. It NOW makes perfect sense to me. A perfect DUHHH Moment! I had overlooked it. As a Scientist, I was reading all sorts of things into it that were not relevant. I see the Queens in a different light now, and might be able to enjoy them like everyone else.

    I hope no one is offended--that's is MY opinion and the way I see it now. Now, realistic "Female impersonators" are another story, like acrobats, there is a "Wow! how does he do that?" factor. I could always handle watching them. But seeing Drag Artists as CLOWNS, I no longer have to Analyze them--just enjoy the humor.

    I am NOT meaning the word "Clown" as an insult but as class of performer that uses costume and makeup in conjunction with a comic act.----Other people may hold different opinions. THIS is just the way I NOW see it.

  2. #2
    🙊🙉🙈 Patience's Avatar
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    I like to think Drag Queens are more like Butterflies while Crossdressers are more like Moths.

    Yes, there's an entertainment element to being a Drag Queen. I wouldn't know. I imagine I think as much about them as they think about Transvestites. that is, not much at all.

    I just stay in my lane and do my thing and let them do theirs. Works for me.
    When haters hate, I celebrate!

  3. #3
    Happy Halloween! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    You're entitled to your opinion and so am I, Marina. I think they look like Kabuki actors!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  4. #4
    Senior Member DianeT's Avatar
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    I have the utmost respect for clowns but I would not compare drag to clown artistry. Both use excess (in features, in effects) to convey messages or humor. Both have a cathartic effect. However, drag has a transgressive (sometimes provocative) edge to it that I don't find in clown artistry, mainly because they target an adult audience while clowns mostly target children (including the grown up children called adults). Drag says a lot about social conventions, gender issues, freedom and tolerance, use a lot of second degree, I don't find that in traditional (circus) clown artistry.

  5. #5
    Member AmyJordan's Avatar
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    I have to admit we love RuPauls Drag Race and find that although you do get the odd one or two very passable beautiful gurls most are not even attempting to pass but use parody characters to entertain so I guess you could see them as 'clownish' But Drag is a performance and they have to be good at a variety of different skills from comedy to dance. The one bit we hate is the dance off when invariably one will resort to, '**** drops ' and splits which always seems to sway the judges in their favour

  6. #6
    Member Gi Gondin's Avatar
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    I just love their work and have a huge respect for their struggle as artists to earn their living through an honest type of work. I have been with my girlfriend in dozens of drag shows in Sao Paulo since 2019 and have witnessed their expanding influence in society.

    I respectfully disagree with Marina as drags being clowns. For sure they have a ‘comic’ (@lacanabotafogo) type of drag and a ’caricature’ (@vera_ronzella) type of drag… drag is a form of expression, where most of them are performers and artists.

    They differ from actors from having only one character, specially in their attitude and personality, since in appearance they can vary (a lot). I have seen them setting this distinction many times.

    Here a short list of Drag types: top model (@halessia), ‘androginy’ (@dannycowltt), ‘installation’ (@almanegrot), ’cover’ or ‘impersonator’ (@penelopyjean), ‘folks queen’ (@karenoleto), ‘dancers’ (@marciapanteraoficial), ‘pinups’, ‘miss pageant’ (@sheilaverissimo), ‘drag king’ (@valentim_don), and many more…

    Those types regard mainly appearance and style. When we considering the occupation of drags they can be actors, dancers, hosts/hostesses, comedians, singers, musicians, teachers, tattoo artists, politicians,…

    Nowadays in Brazil, there are at least two drag queens in the top music parades. pabllo vittar (@pabllovittar) and gloria groove (@gloriagroove).

    I hope this distinctions sets a stage to broaden the characterization of drag queens as being clowns only.
    Last edited by Gi Gondin; 10-19-2022 at 03:38 AM.

  7. #7
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    I've done not research into this but theatre has a history of Dames dating back to Shakespeare's day. There's a striking resemblance to drag artists in the traditional pantomime dame, the striking difference being the humour with the dame targeting a children's audience while slipping in a more nuanced joke for the adults.

    Drag is about performance and in the past used overt sexuality as a way of controlling an audience. Drag artists could target audience members especially males with sexual references, the embarrassment factor, as being gay or dressing in women's clothing was definitely taboo years ago. It was cabaret comedy.

    Drag has now become mainstream as RuePaul's drag race shows, the social stigma of CD'ing and being Gay becomes less of an issue.

  8. #8
    Member Shiny's Avatar
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    Drag Queens are "Clowns?" That statement may come back to haunt you. And I don't think that many are gay either. Gay men want little to do with men dressed as women in any form. I see "Drag" as just another facet of the CD universe. I would agree that the "excessive" portrayal of the hyper-feminine or overblown look may help to push away most questions. They certainly aren't hiding looking like that, they are saying "here I am-accept it or get over it." The dressing as a statement here. And I am more than certain that a lot of them go home and dress as well.

    What makes me think of the entire range of dressing-up is in looking at my Flicker account. I have posted some "leg" and "lingerie" photos over time but that is it for me. At best I came off as a totally "manufactured" woman no matter how I did my hair or makeup or how I dressed. Just too many male clues in my look and personna to pull it off. But I am always amazed by some of the CD practitioners on Flickers' pages. Sure there's some "Queens" who when made up come off looking like the Joker from Batman while others hit the glamour look and look like high class models, way more feminine than you'd ever see any woman look outside of a fashion shoot, with a 3 hour makeup and hair style that would be impossible to maintain on a day to day basis. And farther down the line are the ones who have done the work and perfected their personal best look. Heels that aren't too high, skirts that aren't too short, bust-lines that are appropriate and not Dolly Parton large and with classic clothing and sedate makeup and a current hair style that blends in to the point that if you see the person on the street or in a store it's maybe a glance (or even a second look for us in the same trade) but basically a "nothing going on here" kind of deal. That would be the goal, my goal. I think it is to blend in, fit in and just disappear to live with the look and lifestyle you prefer.

  9. #9
    Member OrdinaryAverageGuy's Avatar
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    Marina, that does make a lot of sense to me. Now that you mention it I see a lot of similarities between drag queens and clowns.
    But to be fair I've never spent too much time thinking about drag queens and how they fit in the CD's of the world. I suppose I'm a little jealous, just because they not only get to wear what they want in the public eye but even get paid to do so. I never loved the drag look, but I don't have to. And I certainly never felt offended by them or worried that they aren't taking CDing "seriously". If anything, I appreciate anything and anyone who is slowly pushing social acceptance closer to where I could wear a skirt to the sports bar without a second glance.

  10. #10
    Resident Polymath MarinaTwelve200's Avatar
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    I do differentiate between Drag Queens, and female impersonators (successful or not). The latter is trying to affect an "illusion" while the former is more "overt" about what one is doing. Us CDs are also "different animals", so to speak. We are NOT "on-stage" nor want to be.

    The "gay" cross-dresser has always been a mystery to me, and Drag queens never made any sense---AS I mentioned below, I discovered I was trying to analyze things that did not matter or were irrelevant. This is what had me confused and frustrated about drag artists. By Clowns I mean the noble profession itself, The August Clown is a mainstay of the big Circus. While the whiteface is more subtle in nature seen in smaller venues like "Cirque de Sol", etc. and there are mimes and pantomimes---all distinct styles of ART. Sexuality plays no part.----. My error was trying to figure what was going on psycho-sexually with drag queens and not realizing it was an ART much like clowning, with its own direction and brand of humor, I see it NOW as a SEPERATE CLASS of Clowning (In the positive sense), with its own distinctive bent on humor and style.

    This realization makes much more sense to me. The logical conflicts concerning drag, I once had are meaningless, as Drag as we know it is a structured comedic style designed to make us laugh or (Humorously) make us "uncomfortable". It's not meant to make sense or be logical. Cross-Dressers simply are not like that so we shouldn't project on to the Queens. Simply enjoy the show.

    I repeat, true CD and Drag are not on the same spectrum, or psychologically related. It's an ART FORM that only LOOKS like CD. I was confused myself until I finally realized that.

  11. #11
    Senior Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    I can see your point, Marina, especially the last sentence of your second post. I see Drag as a specialized form of crossdressing that carries a completely different message that sometimes is quite clear and other times ambiguous leaving the viewer to see what they wish to see. Perhaps that is the point. Drag is an extreme that, in my mind, carries a message of acceptance of differences in people. It has been said that "imitation is the highest form of flattery." They carry the imitation to an extreme and some have a love of performing in front of children. Children get it; adults often do not. And that may be because children have such open and receptive minds and adults live in a more confined world based on tight standards of behavior and appearance. Drag certainly is an art form, but I do wonder what are the thought processes about the subject of gender reversal that motivates this form of entertainment? It is entertainment for the most part, but it has a deeper message as well and I think one of those messages is to not fear difference and take joy is the incredible ability of humans to view the world in very different ways - and that is OK.

  12. #12
    Paula Paula_56's Avatar
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    Drag Queens the way a gay man will express his femininity often in the context of a cultural or entertainment event.

  13. #13
    Silver Member Majella St Gerard's Avatar
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    I've always felt that Drag Queens looked clownish and I get offended when someone asks me if I'm a Drag Queen.
    JMHO.

    Gerri
    Peace & Love

  14. #14
    Silver Member Aunt Kelly's Avatar
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    Traditional clowns are not caricatures of women. Drag queens are. It should surprise exactly no one that many women find this offensive. Don't get me wrong. I understand and respect the fact that these are hard-working performers, some of whom are quite talented, but in more than one way, the genre is the 21st century version of "blackface".
    And yes, the female impersonators are almost entirely something else.
    "Being honest may not get you a lot of friends, but it will always get you the right ones."
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  15. #15
    I accept myself as is Gillian Gigs's Avatar
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    Marina, I see your point of view. It is like they exaggerate different parts of the female features while doing their version of their character. I'm more prone to think they are a caricature of their vision of the female form. They are doing an imitation of a female in which certain striking characteristics are exaggerated in order to create a comic effect. At Halloween it is possibly more of a grotesque look.
    I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!

  16. #16
    Administrator Di's Avatar
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    We have a rule here.

    [QUOTE][Ridiculing members/non-members, or the manner in which they express themselves. This includes any complaint about the way females, males, transgendered, or any other cross-section of the membership dress, the way they express themselves ( makeup, dress &, sexual preference, etc.)/QUOTE]

    Was trying to let this go and see where it went but
    First , why would it matter if IT makes sense to you OR NOt, probably people might not get you or make sense of you either.
    Second live and let live
    Third We do have Drag Queens members here, they mostly just read and I can see why from the comments.
    Fourth - you said whats with these guys? and then all the horrible clown comments. Read the rule please. I am not having members feeling ostracized.

    ADD
    Thank you for all the pms of support. Those reading that felt hurt by the comments/ please know the community stands with you. Be proud of yourself, everyone is an individual and welcome here .


    Thread is done
    Last edited by Di; 10-19-2022 at 01:54 PM.
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