Mistaking resignation and tolerance for acceptance

[Elizabeth G]

My wife didn't learn of my crossdressing until years after we met. I wasn't trying to hide it, it had just been dormant for a long time and I naively thought it was a thing of my past.

Over the six plus years since my wife learned of my crossdressing and gender issues there have been many changes in the extent to which I have been able to express this part of me.

At first I wondered if our relationship would even be able to weather the storm. Since then I have slowly been able to expand my horizons so to speak, to the point where I now have quite a bit of freedom. She still prefers not to see me dressed (though she has) but I dress all day on my work from home days which is about 3 or 4 days per week, I go out and about about twice per month in full female mode and I don't have to hide my things, they hang in my closet alongside my drab stuff.

It seems like a fairly regular occurrence for me to experience some kind of positive feedback from my wife with regard to my dressing. For instance on a recent day we were doing some Christmas shopping and upon entering a department store there was a display of women's shoes immediately inside. I glanced over at them and my wife immediately asked me if I wanted to go look at shoes. There was no sarcasm or snarkiness involved, it was a genuine question. Also lately we have been discussing the possibility of moving at some point and whenever this subject comes up one new house requirement my wife always brings up is having some kind of space for me to dress.

So all of this time I have been interpreting all of this as signs of her increasing acceptance.

All of this though has recently been tempered by two statements she has made in the last two weeks. Once in therapy and once in general conversation. In both instances she stated that she really doesn't like it and never will.

Maybe it was just wishful thinking on my part that her acceptance level has been growing when in actuality she has been becoming increasingly resigned to it all. I will forever feel a great deal of guilt for having pulled her into this.

I think it's high time for some deeper discussion of these recent statements to try to figure out what we can do going forward. We have a great relationship and I love her. It's not fair for her to hide her feeling away just to spare mine.

I guess I don't really have any questions here, I'm just thinking out loud so to speak. I fully understand her position and it's probably a good reality check for me to not take anything for granted going forward and to remember to appreciate everything I have.

Elizabeth

[Debs]

From telling my wife from day one of our relationship, we then got married, we went through all the stages over 20 years from complete acceptance at the begining to when she hated it and many years of DADT, now she has resigned herself to it isnt going to stop, I now can dress when I want , go out when I want, even stop out overnight, I have my own bedroom with full wardrobes and drawers, but do you know what we get on together like a normal couple these days, the only rule is not to go out dressed on my own doorstep, I can go out dressed in the car, but musnt put my wig on and cover my top and where big sunglasses till I get a couple of miles out, then I can take my glasses of put on my wig uncover my top, then do the same in reverse going home. So in my case I pressume time and my wife realising it will never go away has led to my current situation.

[kimdl93]

Its good that those statements of resignation were expressed in therapy. She was being honest about her feelings in the moment, and that?s what therapy sessions are for. At the same time, you need not discount her words and actions outside the therapy setting. Your wife probably means both the supportive statements and those expressing resignation. And she probably also would appreciate knowing (and perhaps she already does) that you appreciate her tolerance.

[DianeT]

Elizabeth, my wife is accepting but doesn't like it and never will. Acceptance can indeed involve some level of resignation and tolerance. My wife doesn't want me to be unhappy so she tries to let me dress, is ok to discuss it (she participates in these forums) and even gave me a few items of hers, but if asked a what if question she tells me she wishes I had never been a crossdresser. It seems we are in a similar situation. You will not stop dressing and your wife will always be uncomfortable with it. Therefore it is a matter of finding the right balance for both of you (and check, once in a while, each other's feelings, to make sure that it still works). In my case it implied limiting the dressing.

[Simple pleasures]

I agree with the consensus here. My wife does give me a level of support and tolerance is probably the right word to use. I can freely dress (with a few exceptions) and wear some makeup in her presence, but I cannot go all in or wear a wig. She has purchased some lovely items for me and the past few Christmases we?ve exchanged makeup items via an advent calendar which has been fun. If truth be known and I asked her if she would have preferred I never crossdressed I?m sure she would prefer that I didn?t. That does play on my mind quite a lot.

[Debbie Denier]

There is an old proverb. You can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink. That is where I am at with my non accepting wife. She never signed up for this. So I have to resign myself that will never change.Good luck Elizabeth I hope it all works out for the best for you and your wife.

[GretchenM]

I think most wives (or husbands in the reversed situation) are resistant to gender shifting to some degree. The image they formed of the nature of their mate when they were dating establishes a bit of a baseline expectation. And when there is some major change in the image of that person it is difficult to replace the old perception with a new one or one that has a lot of differences. But a lot of it depends on how flexible the persons are and how they view changes that inevitably occur in long term relationships. So, to some extent, the rigidity of the perceiver is a factor. That said, consideration of the feelings of the other person toward the one that is most resistant to accepting is important. I think far too many try to force their dressing on to their mate and when it is MTF that forcing is a distinctively masculine behavior founded in old time thinking. Today that rarely goes well. In the marriage vows these days the woman rarely will agree to the phrasing that says "she will love and obey..." Sometimes I wonder how much of those wedding vows people remember as well as how much they still accept. Those vows are important and not just a formality. Promises. They should establish a framework but that framework needs to be a little flexible because things do change. But frameworks made of elastic don't work any better than those made of structural steel beams welded or bolted together.

To me the resolution to that potentially changing clash of expectations is to keep conversation open and in that way establish well defined boundaries on both sides. And sticking to them as well as possible. Want to change the location of a boundary? Discuss it thoroughly and fairly. And most of all don't be rigid with regard to the basic concepts of what is appropriate or inappropriate. Experiment. Then decide where the boundary should be based on some actual experience and not just imagined results and consequences.

It is always hard when your mate makes a big change that conflicts with their expectations and various combinations often work better even though neither gets 100% of what they want or would like to have. It's hard work and there has to be a lot of give and take based on each being empathetic as well as sticking to basic rules that are centered on what is good for that third person in a marriage - the couple, the ground in the relationship where the two unite and set aside some of the personal desires and wishes because they create discomfort in the relationship.

[Devi SM]

Elizabeth, I'd like to ask, what's the purpose of this thread? and , have you ever ask your wife, trying tonreasoning, what is the reason she doesn't like to see you dressed?

[Giselle(Oshawa)]

Great post Elizabeth, my wife knows and is somewhat tolerant, but you post gives me " food for thought"
I wish i had the courage to be totally open to her, but i am a coward

[Stephanie47]

Elizabeth, I'd like to ask, what's the purpose of this thread? and , have you ever ask your wife, trying tonreasoning, what is the reason she doesn't like to see you dressed?

If you were to ask my wife, she'd tell you exactly what she said to me, "If I wanted to be married to a woman, I would have married a woman!" I think most marriages may have some issue of disagreement; hanging out with the guys, too much golfing, sports, etc. A husband emulating a woman? That encroaches on the sexual preference and identity of the woman, not just the guy.

I think Elizabeth's wife has weighed the pros and cons of her marriage. Sort of using a scale of life; economic consequences; other attributes, etc. Is there going to be at some point just too much to handle? How many times on this forum there is a discussion to "creeping or inching along." It's almost like intentionally wearing down a wife to the extent, the shit hits the fan.

[Fiona_44]

Elizabeth,

I commend you for wanting to have a deeper discussion about your wife's feelings and I believe it would benefit you both. Open honest communication is often the key ingredient in a successful marriage. All the best to you both.

Fiona

[Judy-Somthing]

I feel a lot of us are on a very similar Boat.

[Nyla F]

What a timely discussion! This is something I just experienced yesterday when my wife told me she was leaving it up to me if and when I choose to wear nail polish. She says it has nothing to do with her. And she is not expressing any feelings or opinions, and is not encouraging me, so this is clearly resignation rather than acceptance.

[Taylor186]

I think "liking" crossdressing is an incredibly high hurdle for most partners. My wife has accepted that I am a crossdresser and she tolerates my occasional CD sessions, but in no way does she "like" it. Luckily, I don't have to hide things from her, but mostly I crossdress privately for her comfort as well as mine.

[docrobbysherry]

Great post. Liz! Altho, I thot it referred to the people we run into when out dressed!

I see endless posts here from dressers who were "Ma'am'ed, by an SA or server and felt they passed or at least were accepted and felt validated!

But, I wonder of how many of those hard working folks really accept trans when, in fact, their job depends on them treating every customer cordually?

[Rhonda Jean]

Based on my own experience, I think there's a lot more that goes unsaid than said, even if you think you're both relatively open. In my case I did more showing than telling, but how could that be misinterpreted, right? She did a lot of things that anybody would have read as accepting and encouraging. Turns out we were both terrible communicators. Once the communication floodgates were opened we were swept quickly into divorce court. I'm all for open communication, but when you have a history of less-than-open communication you better tread lightly.

[Shiny]

Hey Liz-

The "resign and tolerate" statement is pretty incredible! The one thing I have always said and felt is that long before you tell your spouse, which should come before you get married is to give her the ultimate chance to just quietly walk away. The problem I always see is that it is the active "CD" that is pulling the spouse into the problem. Once in, there is no way out. You only deal with it by enforcing DADT, not permitting it in her presence or greatly limiting it or ultimately her just reluctantly going along. It's that weight she will carry on her shoulders too now. Funny part, it's not like you are in the Witness Protection Program or are a murderer or God forbid a child molester which are all real problems, it's the CD thing which is not a crime---just an ever present social taboo that may always be there complete with its very real problems like losing friends and family and your job and on and on.

[Elizabeth G]

Thank you all for such thoughtful and thought provoking responses to this post. This really is a great community

[JocelynJames]

Hi Elizabeth,
Just saw this now so I wanted to chime in for what it?s worth. I think conversation(s) are in order and she owes it to you, herself and the relationship to be truthful. My wife didn?t know before I told her 11 years ago. She accepted, then back pedaled, then went forward with acceptance. I have asked before why, although she?s accepting, doesn?t encourage CDing, and her reply was that it?s just weird to her. The two times I?ve been out , we?re with her, she has bought me numerous feminine items for no reason and Christmas, birthday and even Valentine?s Day. I try to keep a balance . Truthfully I?m in male mode way more than being Joss. It does make me wonder her true feelings at this point, or maybe just let that dog lay. Good luck in your quest for the truth.
~Joss

[Brenda Freeman]

Hi Elizabeth,
I told my wife 20 years into our marriage and children. It suddenly became a need after years of dormancy. It took a while but my wife knows it makes me happy and said so, so she is supportive in that way. I do not have to hide my clothes I also do not dress up where she can see me because I know she would rather not see me dressed. I asked, she says she just doesn't want to see me that way. We both agree on who can know and it has worked out well. We are best friends for life, no secrets and know what makes each other Happy! I feel very fortunate. I am guessing you can find your common ground that makes you both happy.

[Natalie5004]

Regarding the OP comments. If you think out it I doubt that anyone's wife said "Boy am I glad you like to dress as a woman" to her husband.

That being said, we all know that some will go along, others is a hard No Way, others are in between.

If you both really love each other for life, you will always find a path forward you both can live with.

Natalie

[Fiona_44]

Very well said Natalie