Just a perfect reply to the OP, Aunt Kelly, and so relevant to my own situation with my wife.
Just a perfect reply to the OP, Aunt Kelly, and so relevant to my own situation with my wife.
Not a woman, I just enjoy looking and feeling like one now and then!
That's an empty statement without knowing what her experience base is. I find that comment to be untrue, in fact VERY untrue with a number of known posters here, including me. My wife knew about my crossdressing after we'd been dating about 2 months. We've been married more than 20 years now, and she's even more accepting than she was before we got married. I know I am not alone here.Originally Posted by Beano980
To the overall point; how many women are truly accepting? Not many. It's a question of what level of acceptance do you need to be happy. Not want, but need.
No Julie, I know you are not alone in having that very enviable situation. Good for you and those in the same situation.
However, the comment from Beano's therapist is VERY true for some others of us "known" posters here, including me!
I told my wife about this side of me a few weeks into dating. She was fine with it. In the beginning she would buy me clothes and other little surprises now and then like makeup etc. She wasn't thrilled about it, but she was OK with it.
When we had kids she started to worry about it a little. When the kids got a little older she changed from accepting to tolerating. Later on that changed again from tolerating to absolutely hating even the thought of it. Some years ago, 10 or so, that changed to total denial and threats of self harm.
We have been married for 40 years now, together for 45.
So for me, the statement is absolutely correct and not at all "empty", and .. I also know I am not alone here.
- Suzie
Suzie I'm sorry to hear that things have gone from good to bad for you. I take it you have to leave the house to be able to dress, if you can dress at all. I under dressed for 20 years during my second marriage.
My wife "might" have been accepting of it since she was very accepting of a friend transitioning from male to female, but of course that was a friend and not someone she lived with every day. My under dressing only turned into full blown crossdressing two months after she passed in July. I don't think it was areaction to her passing, I think it was my feminine side finally deciding it was time to introduce herself.
If I get involved with someone else it will only be fair for me to let them know about my crossdressing early on. Having only recently begun complete crossdressing I want to be able to continue to be true to myself. The genie is out of the bottle and I don't want to have to put it back.
The Pink Fog will be with you, always!
Suzie obviously I can't deny your situation. It's your reality (and I wish for you that it wasn't). I just had a hard time accepting this therapist's absolutism on the subject. My own experience denies it. That's why I'd want to see actual numbers to back that up.
About 20 years ago there was a study done on the happiness of the woman in marriages to men who ranged from strong masculine to strong feminine with regard to their behaviors. They found that women who were married to more female-like men were happier in their marriage and the women with strong masculine mates and were strong feminine themselves were the least happy. What they identified was a bit of spectrum in marital relationship patterns. (I have the study printed out, but I am not sure if I have an emailable copy that was downloaded - I would have to check in my big archives of older publications.)
Unfortunately, the study did not examine relationships where the husband showed signs of being transgender in the way of dressing as a woman or engaging in other similar behaviors. But from the data it was clear that women were happier with men who were "somewhat more like themselves." That seems to be a sensible conclusion and the data supported that conclusion.
I suspect the CD/TG factor was not included because it is not common and does not actually fit well with the parameters of the study. For many the CD/TG aspect may be a step too far. Thus if they have a positive happiness with a more female-like male and the relationship goes to the next step they may be willing to give it a try only to find out that is not comfortable for them and so they pull back. A situation of some femininity is great but a lot is not.
However, social relations have changed tremendously in the last 20 years and so the conclusions of this study may not be as valid as they were back then. It is still a good general indicator. But from this study and from the limited sample available on this forum, it appears that acceptance is definitely the exception except perhaps on the short term to give it a try. I suspect how the gender reversal is configured and presented in a huge factor. If it is forced on the wife then the rejection could be due to the perception that being "forced" to do something has a bit of a strong masculine character to it. That, to them, may appear to be a contradiction to the feminine male character and it is rejected once the modern women see that aspect at work. So it comes down to the dynamics of the relationship between the man and the woman in each marital structure. Some find it acceptable; others do not. The devil may be in the details of the specific situation.
Last edited by GretchenM; 03-25-2023 at 07:21 AM.
I realize that I am blessed to have a wife who is accepting (for the most part) of my coming to the realization that I am a transwoman. With that said, we didn't arrive to where we are today without hours of talking, hours of NOT talking, anger, tears, (on both sides) more talking, resignation rather than true acceptance, counseling, limited acceptance, broader acceptance, (where she shopped for me, and complimented me on my fashion and makeup sense), and finally where we are today...general overall acceptance and a solid marital relationship. AGAIN, that's not the end of the story. My wife accepts me for who I am at home and when it's just the two of us or when we're with immediate family. While she's happy to go shopping, go to the movies or out to dinner together, she still hasn't reached a level of comfort to socialize together in a broader setting as a two-women couple. She also asked that I stop HRT (which I've done at this point). I am absolutely convinced that the reason our relationship works is that we have a very true love for each other. By this I mean that both of us cares more about the other than ourselves. It may sound corny or unbelievable - but I assure you that it's true. And, in the final analysis, that's why ANY marital or close relationship works. Gretchen mentioned identifying compromises - and making sure that they're kept...that has also been a big part of why out relationship works. If we promise the other person something, we honor it. I don't mean to say that if a wife cannot accept her husband's need to cross dress or in the more extreme situation, the need to transition to her true life, that there's no love there - because that's NOT the case at all. But it DOES take a very powerful and outgoing love and understanding to accept a complete change in a person, as most would see it in who we are. My wish is that everyone on this forum finds that kind of love from the person they want to be with.
Life is too short to wear ugly panties!
That was my experience, too. Same response from our therapist. Some interesting percentages; each group was about half the previous one:
During my research, several sources had similar findings.
Only about 6% of all women felt that it was okay for men to crossdress, but they wouldn't want to be involved with any of them in any way. In other words, okay for the rest of the world, but 'Not In My Back Yard'.
About 3% were okay with men who crossdress, and would accept a male relative or friend who did, but wouldn't want to date or marry a crossdresser.
About 1.5% said that they would be willing to date a crossdressing male.
When couples in that last group wound up coming in for therapy, half of them wound up splitting up or getting divorced. The women who initially thought that they could handle it, changed their minds, and wanted out of the relationship. That leaves about 0.75% of women who might be accepting enough to be willing to accept us long term. But it doesn't indicate how many would actually want to be involved with her man, crossdressing. Even here, the truly enthusiastic spouses are pretty rare. So you'd be more likely to win the lottery, than find one. By random chance, you would have to date over 100 women to find ONE that might be okay with your being a crossdresser. And then, of course, you have to deal with all the other compatibility issues. So the odds are pretty abysmal.
Plus, acceptance doesn't mean attraction. Natural attraction for women towards men doesn't include being sexually turned on by a feminine male. I'm a nurse, and have known many gay and bi women over the years. The bi women have all been of the 'attracted to masculine men, and feminine women' types. I'm not saying that there aren't any bi women who are attracted to fem men, just that I've never met one in my 50 years of working with women.
Now, times have changed a bit, but I don't think that what intrinsically turns most women on, has changed much at all. For a very, very few, maybe. But the vast population? Nope. And that's what we're up against.
I got divorced 25 years ago, and have been studying the crossdresser dating problem ever since. I don't want to make this many pages long, so I will PM you with more info if you want.
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
Hrmf.
Ok so this is entirely anecdotal, as I am a sample size of 1. However, I've dated 5 women who have known about my crossdressing. (A) didn't know about it until long after we had broken up, but has unequivocally stated she would have married me had she known (I told her long after we stopped dating). (B) was confused and questioning at first, but soon became accepting. I can't be certain she would have married me despite it, but I have strong reason to believe she would have. She kept at our relationship even after I made it clear I wasn't in it for the long haul. She wanted more than I could give. (C) was outright rejectful, to the point of mocking me for it. Her actions informed future decisions about who I would accept as a wife. (D) was a pretty short relationship, but crossdressing actively turned her on. She was bisexual and said it felt like she was getting the best of both worlds. (E) was the one I married, and we've been married for over 20 years now.
So out of five, just one that was rejectful. Maybe 3 of the 4 that were accepting might have changed to not accepting over time. But, my wife hasn't become unaccepting. I put this question to her yesterday, and she said she feels she's more accepting than she was at first. Everyone's mileage may vary. I doubt the stats from this one case of 80% of women accepting to some degree or better would hold up.
1. Take your time and become more comfortable with yourself and your dressing first.
2. Tell someone you may be very attracted to about your CD'ing early on.
3. Who knows what will happen in the future so don't worry about it. Just take life as it comes and try and make your daily life as enjoyable as possible.
"Care about what other people think of you and you will always be their prisoner" - Lao Tzu
Thank you all for your thoughtful and kind responses. I've been a "lurker" on this form for many years and it has been very helpful. I will of course take things slow and I'll update the group on my experiences as I move forward. Thank you all again, I am touched by your responses.
Also, I like Brooke far better than Beano!
Some things change and some don't. I see more opportunities because I'm really short, and most women just won't date short guys.
Keeping secrets is a huge relationship killer. Another is low social status.
What can you offer in a relationship? Confidence is often seen as a plus but I think competence is even more important. Someone has to get stuff done.
Dressing well for social situations is a way to show competence. Most GGs know exactly how much clothes cost.
Marion
