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Thread: Fem Male vs. Full Crossdressing

  1. #1
    Silver Member Rhonda Jean's Avatar
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    Fem Male vs. Full Crossdressing

    This is another chapter in getting my mojo back... I think.

    I'm headed out tomorrow for another work trip. Driving distance, one day of work and extending the hotel stay another couple of nights to do my thing by myself, and that's the way I want it. Just like the old days. I've been out quite a bit lately. Honestly, I could still take it or leave it.

    I've also been shopping a lot. They've closed the Goodwill changing rooms around here, and that has resulted in me accumulating some clothes that I would have probably tried on and put back. Kind of funny that given all that shopping, the most flattering thing I've bought is a $20 long sundress from Sam's!

    These adventures are different than they used to be for me. I certainly can't pass nearly as well. I'm not sure I pass at all anymore. What I have found is, the less I try to pass, the less it matters to me if I don't. I also realize that if I wore exactly what I want to wear it would fall somewhere short of what most of us would consider full-on crossdressing. Every stitch of clothing would be women's, but I'd come across as a feminine male and not a crossdresser. That may seem like a fine line, and it may depend on who judges that, but in this forum you probably get the point. I'm not quite ready for total man-in-a-dress mode, but that may be a fine line, too. One thing is for sure, I'm not 25, or 35, or even 55 anymore. That ship has sailed, and if I'm going to continue to do this thing I'm going to have to get used to some realities.

    I've started thinking about the things I LOVE and focusing on that instead of focusing on passing. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to pass, but... the ship thing, you know! Start with nail polish. I do that frequently in total male mode, so that's a given. It's the thing that survived even during and through the absence of any desire to dress. Makeup. Not full-on glam, but not invisible "guy" makeup. Just makeup that I think looks good on me, even in male mode. Flattering clothes. Frankly, I'm a little tired of leggings and oversize tops that have been my go-to in male and female mode for a long time. No getting away from the fact that I find them flattering, but I'm getting a little bored with it. Leaning toward capris now, and maybe even my Sam's dress. Heels. I've worn heels as a guy quite a bit. There's a line somewhere where heels come across as trying too hard. I'm not sure where that line is, and I'm probably on the wrong side of it sometimes. I LOVE them in certain situations, but I'm okay with toning it down a bit. My new thing (as if there's anything new at my age) is jewelry. I've owned and worn plenty, but it was never really my thing. Give me pair of big hoops and some bangles and I'm good. A while back I found a pearl necklace that I inherited from my mother that ignited some interest in jewelry, and I've bought quite a bit lately trying to find some other style other than hoops and bangles. But, big hoops in male mode are cool! Although I've worn them in male mode, it's still up in the air if I can pull it off now. When I had long hair it was easy. Right now they fall into that "trying too hard" category for me when I look in the mirror. I'd like to get to where I'm comfortable with that in some less-than-totally-crossdressed mode (no wig). Some of that comes down to getting used to it. Wigs. Still don't like them. I'm not as opposed to them as I used to be, and I even wore one in male mode several times, but it still seems to be the one item that crosses some kind of line. Depends on the wig, I guess. Although I'm taking a wig on this trip, I'm leaning toward not wearing it. That obviously could change.

    Too fine of a point this crossdressing vs. fem male thing? To me, not at all. If you're OK with being a fem male, your choices widen dramatically. Pick one thing you like, all at once, or any combination. It's a pretty freeing concept, really. I don't claim to be quite that free spirit that can pull that off with aplomb. Wish I was. I'm trying to get as comfortable with going part way, a little or a lot, as I used to be going all in. I think it's more acceptable now to be a male wearing any combination of the above. You'd certainly be recognizable, and that's a problem for some of us. I've done a bit of all of it at times, but I never thought about it being more-or-less the destination. I never thought of it as being who I am. At least for right now, I'm not so sure it's not. Of course, that could change before the weekend even gets here!

    Another thing that has changed for me that I think influences this thinking is I occasionally see guys doing this. My role models used to be exclusively women. Now, not necessarily. We've all seen the guys at Ulta, Sephora, etc. in full makeup. We've all seen guys wearing nail polish and even long acrylics. No need in going through the whole list. The point is that none of these things are exclusively female at this point. At my age I can't pull that off as well as most of the guys I see doing it. At my age it can all look like trying too hard. I think if I do it right, though (whatever that is) I can still pull it off in an attractive way (read: not clownish). It is downright inspiring to me to see the young guys who so openly and freely flout flout gender norms. It's not just the guys who work at the makeup counters. My tax lady has an office upstairs at a mall and I was there a couple of months ago when the mall employees were coming to work. I was surprised by the number of guys carrying purses (not man bags).

    I usually think the headline-grabbing trans issues do us more harm than good. What I think is typically positive is the (mostly) young guys who deal with the public who have the courage to do their thing. I used to see a young guy at a busy retail customer service counter who had attractive feminine shoulder-length hair and long polished acrylic (or something) nails. He dealt with all ages, all walks of life. He was invariably nice, helpful, and knowledgeable. Undoubtedly he encountered a lot of people that didn't like it, but I bet it was a rare individual that didn't come away with a better impression than they started off with. That's the kind of thing that helps us all!

    Anyway, we'll see how it goes this weekend. Mostly I'm just looking forward to the time away.

  2. #2
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    I hope you enjoy the weekend, regardless of how you elect to present yourself.

    I have to admit, I have not been able to embrace the fem-guy thing for myself. That was kinda my starting point, many years ago. For a few years, I gradually added more womens items to my day to day attire, wore heels, and a touch of makeup. But truth be told, I was never felt comfortable. I really only felt comfortable and complete when I made the plunge and went full fem. Perhaps I was too self conscious and judgmental about myself and others. And I suppose that betrays a degree of intolerance on my part. I am not bothered by younger people who dress in an androgynous manner, but I still react viscerally to some, lets say intermediate presentations.
    Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.

    Eleanor Roosevelt

  3. #3
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    Rhonda Jean,

    I have always been a feminine male. It is so liberating to be able to wear whatever I want to wear. Today I am wearing white women's capri pants, a fem highlighted hairstyle, a gray and white top, professional mani/pedi with OPI Kyoto Pearl on fingers, and OPI Big Apple Red (fire engine red) on toes with a 14k toe ring on the second toes of each foot, and strappy open toe sandals along with a lavender Coach Purse. Even though I don't pass, I feel like a lady that can conquer the world. The best thing is that there is no male mode girl mode, I wear whatever I want whenever I want. Girls that have a male mode and girl mode should try fem male mode. It is so liberating and you can always be your true self.

    Jamie
    You will become stronger in the ways of the Pink Fog. May the Pink Fog guide you and be with you now and forever.

  4. #4
    Member Teresa.Smith.VA's Avatar
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    I am clearly in the full female mode of dressing so that I can easily blend when out in public with my wife.

    Now that I think about it, my wife would be uncomfortable with me if I did the "fem male" thing.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Fiona_44's Avatar
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    Rhonda Jean,

    I think you are brave to consider the fem male route. That is something that I have no interest in doing and would be extremely uncomfortable trying. I do get the feeling though that you are a little too worried about the age/passing thing. If you passed before I do not think you are as "unpassable" now as you think. And if getting recognized is a problem for you then the more female you look, the less chance of someone knowing who you are.

    Enjoy your trip.
    "Care about what other people think of you and you will always be their prisoner" - Lao Tzu

  6. #6
    Aspiring Member Bea_'s Avatar
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    I'm definitely in the femme male/freestyle camp. My beard is one of my favorite features, so no intention to pass. I don't get out at this point except to therapy sessions and I've been more open to walking in from my vehicle dressed in obviously femme attire. I've run into other clients in her office and have slowly become more comfortable and even proud to just own the look. It's sort of a "exposure therapy" like that used to treat phobias. It can feel brutal at times and it still a work in progress.

    Purses are the object I covet most. I have one that I make a point to carry to my sessions, but I'd like to carry one daily in male mode. I'm not there yet.

    I hope your weekend is epic.

  7. #7
    I accept myself as is Gillian Gigs's Avatar
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    This western culture thing is strangling the freedoms that we fought for and desire. I am reminded of Max Klinger on M.A.S.H. If every man showed up at the Draft office wearing a skirt, it would have not be long before they would start accepting skirt clad men into the military. What am I saying, people need to stop letting others dictate to them what their freedoms should be, or look like!
    I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!

  8. #8
    Silver Member Rhonda Jean's Avatar
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    Just for context for y'all who are all or nothing. I'm assuming y'all shave your legs, chest, etc. all the time, right? Do you wear nail polish or at least wear your nails long in male mode? Do you wear earrings in male mode? Do you wear panties all the time? Do you get your brows done? You get the point. Just how "nothing" is your nothing?

  9. #9
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    When i work i wear panties thats it of fem clothing. Have a work shirt we all wear thats the same. On pants i wear cargo pants bc of pockets would like fem cargo pants but have not found any at stores. I cant stand long nails but have worn mascara but have trouble putting on bottom lashes. Have my eye brows trimmed as in not as long as corner to corner of eye if makes sense Cant have visible piercings or rings unless a plain wedding band and a medical bracelet. Some women have fake nails but not suppose to

  10. #10
    Gold Member Sometimes Steffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean View Post
    Just for context for y'all who are all or nothing.
    Pretty much nothing.

    I'm assuming y'all shave your legs, chest, etc. all the time, right?

    No.

    Do you wear nail polish or at least wear your nails long in male mode?

    Long, but not polished.

    Do you wear earrings in male mode?

    No, never.

    Do you wear panties all the time?

    Only sometimes.

    Do you get your brows done?

    No. Not even in girl mode.

    You get the point. Just how "nothing" is your nothing?
    Hi, I'm Steffi and I'm a crossdresser... And I accept and celebrate both sides of me. Or, maybe I'm gender fluid.

  11. #11
    Platinum Member Crissy 107's Avatar
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    Good luck Rhonda Jean, looking forward to how you did.
    Crissy

  12. #12
    Senior Member April Rose's Avatar
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    I have had my brows done twice, wear gold hoops in my ears 24/7 and am having my beard removed by electrolysis. I often wear women's tees, sweaters and jackets, and women's Skechers or ankle boots. I don't usually wear women's pants out in guy mode , because any haven't found that seem to work for me. I do sometimes wear women's shorts. I shave my arms and legs in the warm weather.

    That said, when I go out like that, I still look like an old balding guy with white hair, and get treated as such. The lines of fashion are definitely getting blurry.

    Although I still swear that people have been nicer to me since I started wearing earrings.
    I am a vessel of the goddess. Let me express my calling to a feminine life through nurturing love and relatedness.

  13. #13
    Aspiring Member Bea_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean View Post
    Just for context for y'all who are all or nothing. I'm assuming y'all shave your legs, chest, etc. all the time, right? Do you wear nail polish or at least wear your nails long in male mode? Do you wear earrings in male mode? Do you wear panties all the time? Do you get your brows done? You get the point. Just how "nothing" is your nothing?
    I'm obviously not in the all or nothing group. That being said...

    I'm assuming y'all shave your legs, chest, etc. all the time, right?

    I love my beard and I'd shave my chest and legs if the stubble didn't become an issue within 12 hours. A definite no-go for intimacy of any kind.

    Do you wear nail polish or at least wear your nails long in male mode?

    I like having my toenails done. Not wanting the upkeep of keeping fingernails done.

    Do you wear earrings in male mode?


    I got my ears pierced for my 67th birthday last year. I wear studs regularly but have worn some bangles to therapy sessions.

    Do you wear panties all the time?

    Yes.

    Do you get your brows done?

    My brow (yes unibrow) is like my beard. I've never been tempted to do more than a slight pruning but I have a definite masculine, almost neanderthal, browline and it doesn't bother me at all.

  14. #14
    Aspiring Member Debs's Avatar
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    when I go out on my own shopping or go and see my girlfriends, its very rare that when I step out of the door Im not dressed, I actually find it weird now to walk out in flat shoes.

  15. #15
    Member EmilyShy's Avatar
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    I'd love to be able to mix n match women's clothes in everyday attire. Guy mode as some call it. I think it comes under the gender fluid umbrella. To me it's ALL crossdressing. Either a full femme dress up with wig or just lingerie under your male clothes. Shoes, make up, nails or even just wearing women's jeans. I struggle understanding how in the cross dressing world people are so accepting (a touchy subject expressing yourself full femme publicly) yet in the same circle people are so critical of different versions of crossdressing. I like to dress but my alone time is very limited (like 3 or 4 times a year) but I wear bra and lingerie whenever I can under my clothes and occasionally put a skirt on if opportunity allows.

    I think we all should do whatever makes us happy and comfortable whenever the situation allows

  16. #16
    Gold Member bridget thronton's Avatar
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    I agree with Emily - wear what ever makes you happy (clothes should be fun)

  17. #17
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    Rhonda Jean, ditto, ditto, ditto right down to the line about the headline grabbers. They have definitely made my situation more dicey and less safe. Riki

  18. #18
    Member CDMargret's Avatar
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    I'm assuming y'all shave your legs, chest, etc.
    Shave my legs yet no need to do my chest as not much there.

    Do you wear nail polish or at least wear your nails long in male mode?
    No polish. I prefer natural looking nails.

    Do you wear panties all the time?
    24/7

    Do you get your brows done?
    Wife does my brows.

    Just how "nothing" is your nothing?
    Never just nothing, there is always something.

    I have seen a recent picture of the fella that plays the Mandalorian and he is wearing shiny silver satin slacks and the Navy wants to use a drag queen to help with recruitments in an article I read. Eye openers to me.

  19. #19
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    Jamie, I love your style and attitude. When I go out in fem male mode I am gendered female at least 75 percent of the time.

  20. #20
    Silver Member Rhonda Jean's Avatar
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    Very interesting what we do and what we don't in our everyday lives!! Let's agree that there is no wrong way to be, and that one way is not superior to another. I will say that if I'd been all or nothing I might still be married. I'll also say that over the decades of having long hair and long nails, my nails got A LOT more negative reaction than my hair or anything else. Not talking about gnarly nails here. Professionally manicured, clean and always looked after long nails on a guy still seem to trigger a lot of people. Same nails wearing any color of polish, I don't remember a negative reaction. I don't thing that long polished nails on a guy are acceptable but unpolished are not. I think it's probably that people are put off by a straight-appearing guy with long nails. Add polish and you (I) probably cross into some other-than-straight territory that might you a pass. Of course, most of the negative comments came from coworkers, and I didn't wear polish around them, so the numbers are very skewed. When (rarely) strangers (read: redneck males) do react to some of this mixed presentation stuff, it's pretty scary.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillian Gigs View Post
    This western culture thing is strangling the freedoms that we fought for and desire. I am reminded of Max Klinger on M.A.S.H. If every man showed up at the Draft office wearing a skirt, it would have not be long before they would start accepting skirt clad men into the military. What am I saying, people need to stop letting others dictate to them what their freedoms should be, or look like!
    Gillian you are correct! We can't let western culture strangle our freedom. Be yourself and stop worrying about how other folks perceive you!! Don't give them control of your lives. Women can now wear anything that a man wears because they were strong enough to wear what they wanted to wear! You see people daily with tattoos all over their bodies, earlobes stretched down to their shoulders, and yet you worry about a little nail polish, earring, long hair, or feminine clothing? Why? Be a big girl and wear what your want to wear!
    You will become stronger in the ways of the Pink Fog. May the Pink Fog guide you and be with you now and forever.

  22. #22
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    Not anything I would be interested in doing. I like my male side and my female side to be separate, although my mind influences both, e.g., love of bright colors, shapes and patterns.

  23. #23
    Senior Member jjjjohanne's Avatar
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    When I first started dressing in public, I felt like I had to either present female or wear clothes that looked like menswear. Some days I would sneak out and take a walk in a skirt with built-in shorts on a walking trail. If I ended up passing someone, I would have my skirt pulled up so that I looked like I was just wearing shorts.

    After a few accidents and on-purpose times of letting my skirt down, I got brave enough to wear a skirt that did not contain shorts. No one I passed on my morning walks reacted. That lead to the epiphany that I could wear women's clothes and present male. It was a novel thought.

    I started having outings where I would wear a skirt or dress in public. People would look and point in the early days. These days, people are aware that we exist and they don't react much at all. It is still scary and awkward for me, but I get over it after 30 minutes and it is happy and free.

    I have a blog where I write about my outings: http://joeypress.wordpress.com I have gone to restaurants, Christmas shopping, barber shops, grocery stores, church, the blood bank, etc... People are kind. (Caveat: I go out in the daytime when school is in session. I go to decent places.)

    Joey
    I am a man who presents male and wears feminine clothes.
    I blog about my outings: https://joeypress.wordpress.com/

  24. #24
    Senior Member DianeT's Avatar
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    Rhonda Jean, as usual, a pleasure to read your gazette. Always well written and often funny. Good luck in your search for the right balance.

  25. #25
    Silver Member Natalie5004's Avatar
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    I am a all or almost nothing person.

    I do wear nail polish daily, shave everything I can. I flew this week and TSA patted down my back because I was wearing a bra under my male clothes. They do not do that for women.

    I trim my own brows, so they are far from perfect.

    When I go out I am fully if not overdressed. I tend to try too hard. But that is what I want. I really enjoy my days (only) shopping and running errands. I go out at least once a week as Natalie.

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