Hi was wondering if Crossdressing comes under a LGBT etc umbrella.
Seeing as a lot of CD are straight people just wanting to dress differently. I understand if your Bi curious or other non heterosexual actions or thoughts would mean you are in that description as them things apply even when not dressed but I'm just talking about Crossdressing in general
There's been much argument in previous threads over that, but I'll stand firm with a No. I'm not lesbian, not gay, not bi, and not trans. I'm very straight and I have no problem being or remaining a man. In other words, I'm just a crossdresser.
Others here ARE gay, or bi, or are transitioning, or want to transition, so they would fit under the umbrella, but "crossdressing" doesn't imply any of those things, it's just about dressing.
There are plenty of good arguments for both sides of this question.
I tend to believe that it's more about what's going on inside a person's head.
To me, it's less about what you're wearing than about why you're wearing it.
And there are a whole bunch of possible reasons.
So, I'll just have to shrug and answer "I really don't know. Do you feel like you do?"
I've always considered myself straight as a ruler, however in a dress (at a Halloween party) with guys groping and such, it was really confusing.
Ahhh, we hate those labels, don't we? Or do we just wish there was one for our very own? We sure like to point out the ones we're not, so I guess they serve some purpose. The string of letters is getting so long that I think it's only some mythical person that is not included in one of those, and that person probably is too, they'd just rather die than admit it. Find you a letter or two and join the movement! For the record, it hasn't been that long ago that I didn't think I had a letter, either. Now, depending on when we're talking about, I think I am or have been every damn one of them. A picture of diversity, I am! Maybe it'll get me a government contract or... I better stop before I get in trouble.
Somewhere along the way, some combination of creams, compounds and elixirs that were supposed to make me look like a Kardashian must've made my skin pretty thick. I am literally unmoved by any of these terms. Even the pronouns. Now, when I'm gendered female I love it (guess that counts as being moved). When I get "sir" I don't like it, but I don't get pissed about it. Tells me I need to try harder, and if it bothers me I better stay in the house.
I'm getting old. Hell, who am I kidding. I am old! I grew up when gay, queer, etc. were "fightin' words". The most offensive terms in the English language. Some still consider them that. To others they're a badge of honor. Some of those terms I still don't quite get. I mean, when I was a kid I knew what queer meant. Now it seems it can mean a lot of things, and when you say it, nobody knows what it really means. It's still amusing to me to see some post or video where some mom refers to her kid as queer. For a second I'm back in elementary school and my 10 year old mind is totally blown to hear that come from a mom. Then I'm back in the present and realize I have no idea what that means anymore. Probably more about what it says one is not, rather than what one is. Hard for an old girl to keep up!
I don't know if every single letter and symbol in that abbreviation applies to me (does anybody even know what it all means?), but the ones that do would make a strong password.
Emily
The best label is one you choose yourself.
I always considered crossdressing to come under the 'T' part of LGBT.
This is because your are perceived to be crossing gender boundaries.
The problem with any label is that they tend to be all encompassing. Even though we may consider cross dressing to be just dressing, the public at large considers all such activities under a large umbrella, due to a lack of knowledge and understanding.
i too would class myself as a straight, heterosexual male but that doesn't in itself stop us being part of a wider community. The advice often offered here to those seeking to go out for the first time is to go to a LGBT friendly venue. If you're one of the community who goes out and about then it's highly unlikely you're going to walk like John Wayne with a felling axe over your shoulder swigging from a can of beer. For the majority their aim is to present as feminine a persona as they can, hence as Shelly says below, transitioning gender norms.Originally Posted by OrdinaryAverageGuy
LBGT isn't solely about sexual preference and I can see for some who dress within 4 walls or class themselves as a MAID the reasoning not to include themselves in that wider community. And while each of us as individuals is free to choose the label they want, it would seem that for society at large, they see us as part of the LGBT grouping. I'm happy with that. For me, that puts us on the side of the good guys.
Who dares wears Get in, get out without being noticed
Emily, Like Shelly, I believe the CDs are under the T umbrella.
Please call me Jamie, I always_have crossdressed, I always will, "alwayshave".
I would say yes I feel that crossdressing fits under the transgender umbrella. I dont live full time as a transwoman but I am on the transgender spectrum.
I agree, we are somewhere under the T
Crissy
I do not like all the different labels.
But the definition of Transgender term is a very generic term used for crossdressers on one side to transsexual on the other side and everything in between. Is my understanding, the news and general public does not know do their research so their is the disconnect.
I agree with Crissy, Jade, Jamie and others. I think the assessment that we are all under the "T" umbrella is the proper one. As a crossdresser I am proud and revel in being included in that wide spectrum.
www.flickr.com/people/194195593@N05/
I am a straight male crossdresser. I am not "L", "G", "B" or "T".
If you insist on calling me one of the above, you will be insulting me.
Krisi
They won't be insulting you. You may feel insulted (why, by the way?), but that is your problem. As for them, they are just doing a mistake, generally in good faith, since the crowd tends to consider CDers to be gay, and you have the liberty to politely correct them if you so wish.
As for labels, everyone puts what they want in them, so I'm ok to fall under the T umbrella, and I'm also fine baking in the sun next to it.
[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]
I couldn't agree more.
Last edited by DianeT; 08-10-2023 at 06:03 PM.
"So, I'm a crossdresser. Mmh. What's that thing, again?"
Considering telling your SO? Read this fine manual first: https://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?13841-How-to-tell-your-partner
There is no consensus whether crossdressers fall under the Transgender Umbrella, either on places like Wikipedia or on this board. I went to a transgender conference about five years ago and their definition was that crossdressers do fit under the transgender umbrella, and so in that regards I consider myself to be part of the T.
And contrary to the opinions of some here, 1) the definition of crossdressing is NOT limited to MTF, nor 2) does crossdressing equal sexual orientation (you can be gay or bi or a lesbian and be a crossdresser, although survey's suggest most MTF crossdressers are heterosexual).
And as a guest to one of our meetings once said, "When you've met one transgender person you've met one transgender person." It's not one size fits all.
I am a male who likes to "present female" from time to time, so crossdresser is probably the best adjective for me. YMMV.
I'm Sun-Dee at Kandi's Land; read about my outings here:
https://www.kandis-land.com/author/dee/
So am I Krisi--- People have a tendency to confuse the VERB with the Person. That's one reason the term "Transvestite" was used to describe us, instead of plain ol' "Cross-Dresser" like today.--- The reason there ARE "Labels" is to differentiate us from Homosexuals, Transsexuals and those in between who ALSO cross-Dress (verb) for various reasons. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE and we are often confused with LGBTs--and unfortunately, often suffer THEIR "pain" for it.
I believe SOME of the CDers are under the TG umbrella, but not ALL of us are. For many CDing is an Erotic thing and the dressing is to evoke the feeling. For others it serves as a "disconnect" from ones "self" or "psyche" that evokes a pleasurable "High" or emotional or stress release. Not ALL CDers feel being cross-dressed is "the real me". Many like to become "the NOT ME". Being into it for "Thrills" is not necessarily "Transgender." One is only TG if they IDENTIFY with the opposite biosex.
Last edited by MarinaTwelve200; 08-08-2023 at 07:08 AM.
Excellent MarinaTwelve200. I agree 100%.
This discussion has been going on for years. Those who want to be part of the larger T group say yes, those who don't consider themselves part of the bigger T group say no. Personally, I see CD as something much different than what true TG people feel, so I say know, but many others disagree. It always struck me as odd that a group that rejects so many traditional notions about M-F roles needs to address labels like this, but to each their own and who am I to tell anyone how to live their life? Best answer I can give you is that if you believe you belong, you can find a place where you do. If you believe you're not part of the group, for whatever reason you have, you're not. Just be cool to those who are and be a supportive ally, nothing else anyone can ask of you.
There are no clear lines that differentiate different identity forms. It is somewhat like a rainbow where the colors change over a narrow transition zone rather than having distinct lines. Although the colors in a rainbow have definite names that does not mean they are associated with a particular, wavelength of light - it covers a range of wavelengths that, to us, appear similar. The fact is each change in the wavelength of light produces a unique color, but we don't perceive that and our brains blend different colors at different wavelengths into a single color so we can deal with all that variation more easily.
Same thing in the gender spectrum. So, I suggest you not get hung up on labels but keep it broad and flexible so individuals can identify with who they are rather than with a specific group. CD is clearly on the edge of the T spectrum. Using a particular gender expression that differs from the broad zone of cisgender expression needs to have more of a motivation than "I just want to." The question is why do you want to?
Most all of our choices, although they seem to be under our conscious control, they aren't. Those choices are made elsewhere in the brain based on neurological configurations, some of which are genetic but all of which are highly modified by experiences that pattern the plasticity of the brain to adapt to all of the information that it is gathering every moment of your life. Your consciousness really can't handle all that information at once; so to speak, it take 99 billion out of 100 billion total neurons to do that - your consciousness is in the remaining 1 billion neurons. (Those are not exact numbers of course, just an example.) As the neuroscientists say, "There is no such thing as a conscious decision." In fact your consciousness receives the results of a choice that is made elsewhere and thus implements in a carefully directed fashion the choice with your own awareness and "wisdom."
The very definition of transgender, a concept first described in 1969, allows for a wide range of phenomena to be included. The definition is basically and somewhat simplified as, "A person who SELF identifies, constantly or intermittently, with the gender that is opposite that which would be expected based on the person's sex." And Gender Dysphoria is the negative feeling one gets where they sense a conflict in their identity with what is preferred to be their identity, some of the time or all of the time. The high end of transgender is someone who transitions because that is the state where they have the least dysphoria in the self identity. At the other end is generally the CD who shows only smaller amounts of dysphoria (pink fog), mostly self identifies as cisgender, but still has this need to express as the opposite gender because of subconscious decisions that are being made that create a motivation to express in a particular way that is inconsistent with expectations. There is no right or wrong way to express yourself in clothing and other aspects - there are just different ways.
The general public really doesn't care about such distinctions. They are far too busy with their own lives.
"Whatever you say, that is fine with me" is more likely what they are really thinking.
What do you what them to do with the label? Arguing about your version is one way to make them remember you as CD or TG, if that is what you want.
But, from what I read here, while some CDs what to be seen in public, many would prefer their neighbors not know.
Gender identity and sexual preference are two different things. Much of the professional community still uses "transgender" to cover all forms of gender non-conforming, e.g. crossdressers, non-binary, etc. Nevertheless, confusion and debate over labels and their definitions will always be present because, as The Dude says, "That's just like, your opinion, man."
Calling bigotry an "opinion" is like calling arsenic a "flavor".
What auntie said! The issue is this:
Lesbo, Gay, Bi all r folks who prefer non-typical sex partners.
While Trans refers to a person with self gender issues. And, says nothing about the gender of who they choose for their sex partner(s)!
So, vanilla folks r often confused that most M to F trans r straight!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
I would say I?m still entirely heterosexual, if being my full authentic self means I come under the trans umbrella then I?ll be ready to accept that.
The thing with labels like LGBTQABC+++, is that they seem to be defined by society, by people outside the group.
We don't really have much control over where any individual puts us.
I'm most comfortable ignoring the labels and just being me.
There are people that will argue all day that to be bi means you are gay or lesbian or that the T doesn't belong with the LGB at all.
Ok. Knock yourself out arguing over something that petty and insignificant. I'll just sit her and watch the fireworks.
Where do we as cross dressers fit, well, I'd say we are more than a standard deviation from the median, so someone will try to put us in a box somewhere.
I personally am not going to worry about it because almost all of the things in the list of letters exist on a continuum, and I'd wager that the majority of people under that umbrella probably touch at least two of the letters in some way. I mean, I've been to gay bar and seen the super macho biker guys in the booty shorts. Defiantly gay, but those shorts are a touch of cross dressing. I'm just not going to point that out to somebody that looks like he could break me in half.
Ah, I'm rambling again...
Pick a letter if you want to. Don't if you don't. Maybe those that want to have a label could start a movement changing the whole thing to LGBTQC+++
The rest of us can just go shopping for another pair of cute heels to wear with a dress we haven't bought yet.
I am Me and Me is OK!
Shelby
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