The Nod

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Thought I'd shared one the secrets of passing in guy-dom: "The Nod" -- the simple up/down head nod that men do to each other to acknowledge each others' presence without speaking.

The subject came up on another forum and someone had an eloquent description of it.

The nod can mean, everything's cool, hello, goodbye, this is my woman, this is a girl I am using for sex, I can kick your a$$, you can kick my a$$, and a lot of situation specific things, but mostly it is just an acknowledgement. I am not sure why, but men must acknowledge each other if they have eye contact. It may be a territorial thing.

Kind of hard how to explain how to use it properly, the best I can suggest is just doing some field observation of the natives.

[Kieron Andrew]

apparently i have 'The nod' down to a fine art

[CaptLex]

Thought I'd shared one the secrets of passing in guy-dom: "The Nod" -- the simple up/down head nod that men do to each other to acknowledge each others' presence without speaking.

Yup, I'm familiar with the nod. To me it's a non-verbal interpretation of "dude", which can be used as a greeting, a warning, an affirmation and so many other things. In fact, the nod is how most of us in my support group greet each other - especially if someone is sitting way across the room. Gotta love the nod - it does and says so much without expending too much energy.

[Abraxas]

Ahhh, yes... The Nod is my friend!

[Fainne the King]

The nod is awesome. It beats screaming and hugging each other any day.

[Wren]

It beats screaming and hugging each other any day.

Nothing can beat screaming and hugging, it's the most over the top of gestures, i hear it burns 2000 calories.

About the nod...so that's what that is. Geez, I look like a hyper/permahigh tipsy drunkard all the time so I never bothered to be unextravagant about anything.

hehe, my SO has had the nod since he was a little girl. hehe. It always pissed me off when we were younger, before he transitioned. I always thought he was ignoring me. born a man on the inside. go figure.

[russian_queen]

The nod and touching your nose... Really gently with the back of your pointing finger. That's very guyish...

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

To me it's a non-verbal interpretation of "dude", which can be used as a greeting, a warning, an affirmation and so many other things.

'Course out here in California, you can have whole conversations just using "dude"....

About the nod...so that's what that is. Geez, I look like a hyper/permahigh tipsy drunkard all the time so I never bothered to be unextravagant about anything.

Just remember, minimal emotion, that's the manly way. (Heck, in opening of "Brokeback" -- while they're waiting to get hired -- the guys never even got as far as "the nod.") Just imagine you're channeling Clint Eastwood.... :winking:

[Abraxas]

DUUUUUUUUDE!

haha, dude is a great word. That and "old bean"-- first time my mate Al called me that, I thought he was off his trolley! haha!

But yes, back to the nod. My guy friends aren't typical, so it's always a handshake or hug hello and goodbye, or perhaps even a kiss on the cheek. Depending on how drunk everyone is, haha. Of course, over distance-- say, across the room or down the corridor or whatever, a nod will suffice until the proper greeting can occur. Or occasionally two fingers in the air-- like a peace sign only less noticeable/ significant.


Either that, or we just call each other names in greeting. "Hey, you stupid ______," "Quit being such a _________," "shut up and eat your ________ biscuits, you galactic _______." That kind of thing (the last one is an inside joke, obviously...).

[Wren]

Just remember, minimal emotion, that's the manly way. (Heck, in opening of "Brokeback" -- while they're waiting to get hired -- the guys never even got as far as "the nod.") Just imagine you're channeling Clint Eastwood.... :winking:

Hehe, thank you. But when it comes to Wren in drab I like to be myself, limiting my emotional output is not for me. Cutting down my personality to fit into a stereotype would negate why I crossdress to begin with.

[ChristyCD]

Thought I'd shared one the secrets of passing in guy-dom: "The Nod" -- the simple up/down head nod that men do to each other to acknowledge each others' presence without speaking.

The subject came up on another forum and someone had an eloquent description of it.



Kind of hard how to explain how to use it properly, the best I can suggest is just doing some field observation of the natives.

Actually, the "rules" are pretty simple.

If you are within 10 feet of another guy, "The Nod" would be in a downward motion. Think of it as a subsitute for shaking hands.

If you are acknowledging someone further away (outside the hand-shaking distance), "The Nod" would go the other way in an upward motion (not so much a nod as quick "chin lift" to say hey!)

The same upward motion is used to get the attention of the waiter or waitress in a restaurant - make eye contact and do the chin lift, they will come over (beat's shouting "Hey, Dude!")

[MsEva]

The nod and touching your nose... Really gently with the back of your pointing finger. That's very guyish...

No its not..that is the Sting....hehe

[Scotty]

Actually, the "rules" are pretty simple.

If you are within 10 feet of another guy, "The Nod" would be in a downward motion. Think of it as a subsitute for shaking hands.

If you are acknowledging someone further away (outside the hand-shaking distance), "The Nod" would go the other way in an upward motion (not so much a nod as quick "chin lift" to say hey!)

The same upward motion is used to get the attention of the waiter or waitress in a restaurant - make eye contact and do the chin lift, they will come over (beat's shouting "Hey, Dude!")

Yep - you got it. (Coming from my genetic guy side), it's just natural......

It's neat to see this on the other side though, I never paid much attention to it before until I read this tonight....Holding a door for a guy because you are leaving the door, give the nod so he doesn't think yer weird.......

Just a lot of reasons to do it, if you do not know the person, but you dont nod to someone you know, you say "Hey wassup"......or whatever .....

[Andrea]

Hmmmmm you realise how much you do subtle things like this when its pointed out to you.

I realise i do this all the time to say thanks, Hi, I've done that, etc. Strange really, GG's would probably use verbal or physical ways of saying exactly the same things. I wonder if it stems back to guys in caveman days hunting, not being able to talk for fear of scaring prey and therefore having to use gestures etc to communicate.

[mistunderstood]

I was in Wal-Mart today buying BB's for my gun and got the nod. I did not realize about the nod till this post. Now I look back and I seem to get the nod more than I realized. I nodded back and the guy walked off. Funny thing was I did not even try to pass today. I got dressed and went out the door not even thinking to try and pass. Maybe I pass more than I think I do.

[Kieron Andrew]

Maybe I pass more than I think I do.

thats what i now think after i was out with mates the other night (some MTF girls i know), and a genetic guy blatantly turned round and said 'i thought u were a real guy'.........then later on the same evening i needed the bathroom, so went of the accessible loo to find it had be vandalised, so went in the gents, and the cubicle was taken, so the other guy waiting said 'oi you mate, theres a disabled lad here that wants a slash 'pee'.....get your ass out so 'he' can go!!! so maybe just maybe i should also start believing i 'pass'

[CaptLex]

maybe i should also start believing i 'pass'

Kells and Aaron, I would say you guys are "in like Flynn".

[julz]

Hmmmmm you realise how much you do subtle things like this when its pointed out to you.

GG's would probably use verbal or physical ways of saying exactly the same things.

I think the GG equivalent might be smiling. Not sure though.

[jessica duprea]

If I may, hope I may, I am a very hyper-masculine dude, as most mtf's have had to be.

When a man walks into a room he sizes up the other men and potential females for mating. he is either has an alpha personality or a weaker less assertive personality, now all men have the potential to be assertive but given there strengths and short comings know where they stand with each other.

well most do, I at times looked and projected alpha male and on other actions with bigger guys had to swallow my pride and give them there the way only because I knew in order to show the ape I can hang I would have to really hurt his ass, and I hate fighting it makes me sick, and the last thing I want is to get snapped in two.

so anyway the nod is just that, if you make eye contact with a man you better do something, the nod is that something, without it you just eyeballed a dude and he will remember you as an "a" looking to prove himself.
like you have a problem pal, that is what is going on in the guys head you just eyeballed.

It's all about eye contact. if he smiled at the other guy what do you think would be assumed? gay!!

If he smirked, fight!!
if he giggled, fight!!
if he looked away, timid...gay!!
if he shook his hand...........way to formal the guy is an ass!!
if he said hi...um OK the nod is more masculine, so nod.

Now the nod transcends position and statues the waiter and the prez can, and will nod at each other and it is the same thing,[SIZE="4"] Respect[/SIZE]


God that hurt thinking about all that crap.

[Wren]

I am fairly sure we are of a vast quantity of people, the minority on this planet who are obsessing about the intricacies of gestures. Having said that, I think the nod is a stereotype like so many other "Everyone does this" kind of statements.

The subtelties of our movements, vary from culture to culture, time frames, nurture etc. Basing passing on these kinds of things is not unhelpful but somewhat erroneous.

[CaptLex]

It's all about eye contact. if he smiled at the other guy what do you think would be assumed? gay!!

Actually, I've noticed that gay men (at least the ones around here) don't nod and don't smile immediately. First they do what I call "the stare". If they get stared at in return, then one of them might smile as if to say, "Yeah, I'm checking you out." And if you get a smile back, then it's the green light. So many non-verbal signals. Somebody should write a rule book.

On another note, I was talking about The Nod with my son, and he says that the downward nod means hello, but the upward nod is usually used to signify "what's your problem?" Or maybe that's just in our neck of the woods. Like I said, I need the rule book.

[Julie Avery]

I'd never thought of it before you spelled it out, but that sounds right, in any context, not just one involving gay men: the downward nod, at least in our culture, is approving. An upward nod is asking, "What are you about? I'm not getting it." Fascinating, this business of interpreting physical gestures.

[Kieron Andrew]

im trying to find literature online that will explain female and male mannerisms and the difference im sure ive found something before!

[Wren]

Funny, as a female I've used this so called nod to symbolize "yes" and "what are you talking about" I think it's a cultural thing.

The more this discussion drags on, the more frustrated I get. What If I don't want to be THAT boy? What if I don't consciously chose my movements based on gender stereotypes? What if I find is that the more natural you act, short of really obvious no-no's, the more you will pass. I saw an MTF cder on the bus the other day and her movements smelled of "Hilga's centre for the womanly arts" textbook jerky type movements. If I nod to every person on this town or act macho manish, I'd look like an idiot. Mostly because I'm 5'3" but also because I've got soft features, and it would be strained and people would know that.

No one is as perceptive of the subtle movements, like the natural nod, as they are of really obvious faked out gestures.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I was talking about The Nod with my son, and he says that the downward nod means hello, but the upward nod is usually used to signify "what's your problem?"

I hadn't thought about it, but yeah that sounds right. That's thing...these sorts of mannerisms are never formally taught and we're rarely conscious of.

What if I find is that the more natural you act, short of really obvious no-no's, the more you will pass.

Yes and no. It's a bit like acting, if the acting shows through it hurts the performance. OTOH, I know post-op MTF TSs whose body language still is that of a guy in a dress. I can't speak for the FTM other than noting that Norah Vincent makes clear in her book that these subtle behaviorial things/ways of speaking were the reason everyone thought "Ned" was gay even though no one doubted he was male.

Part of it is -- that like learning any other sort of skill (skiing, sailing, rollerblading, whatever) -- unless you're "a natural," you invaribly go through a period where you're what's called "consciously competent" you internalize the skill and no longer need to think about.

Of course the larger question is how much one wants to conform to the gender binary.