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Thread: The Nod

  1. #26
    boi - gurl - whatever... Ms. Donna's Avatar
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    This has been an interesting thread. 'The nod' - while an innocuous gesture - is definitely a 'gendered' - gesture.

    I have been trying to be more aware of when I do this and I have noticed a couple of things: I do not do this with women - only men, and I don't decide to do it - it appears to be almost instinctual. There is no thought behind when to nod upwards, downwards or not at all - it just sort of happens. Very deeply engrained scoial programming and hard to overcome.


    Also, I've also noticed that in general, women don't do the nod - 'tough' girls will - but stereotypically feminine women don't.

    I think Jessica summed it up well. It is a 'respectful' acknowledgement of an individual eminating 'masculine' energy (as it were.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren
    The more this discussion drags on, the more frustrated I get. What If I don't want to be THAT boy? What if I don't consciously chose my movements based on gender stereotypes? What if I find is that the more natural you act, short of really obvious no-no's, the more you will pass.
    I have found this to be very true. I get read as a girl more often when I'm not consciously trying to be feminine. To me, it's almost like people can sense that I'm trying. As a rule, I don't try to be any one 'thing'. Hell, I spent the better part of my life playing the role of 'man' for everyone. For me, to be a 'woman' is to play no less of a role.

    All we can do is be ourselves - People will gender us as the way they want to anyway.

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    Donna
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  2. #27
    some words and stuff BethGG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Donna
    Also, I've also noticed that in general, women don't do the nod - 'tough' girls will - but stereotypically feminine women don't.
    I've done the nod Except I think I only do it to guys I don't quite like. Sort of like a "I'm acknowledging you but don't feel like saying hi cause I don't want to actually talk to you". Ok and maybe to give a "tough" vibe lol. But I don't think I ever do that to girls.

    I'd say the female equivilent is: for someone you don't really know- a small tightlipped smile, someone who is a friend but is across the room- a small wave and a big smile. I think perhaps the "small smile" is the girl to girl equivelent.
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  3. #28
    boi - gurl - whatever... Ms. Donna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BethGG
    I'd say the female equivilent is: for someone you don't really know- a small tightlipped smile, someone who is a friend but is across the room- a small wave and a big smile. I think perhaps the "small smile" is the girl to girl equivelent.
    Hmm... I've seen the 'small tightlipped smile' but never equated it to the nod - but it does make sense as I've seen it used as described.

    With the women I'm friendly with, I do use a variation of the 'small wave and big smile'. I do this kind of one-finger wave with my index finger and a smile. Again, this is not a conscious action - I don't decide to 'wave' this way, I just do.

    I've never seen any 'guys' do it so I guess it's kinda 'girlie'...


    Great... Now I'm gonna wind up analyzing every friggin' thing I do...


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    Donna
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  4. #29
    Patchwork Material sparks's Avatar
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    Here is my take on the nod. it started in high school and was considered a "hey I'm cool" kinda hello or simular greeting.
    Now I'm simply lazy and don't want to raise my hand in gesture of hello. It is a guy lazy thing to me. Besides if you raise your hand in a hello gesture and said recipiant does not follow suite than you look like a goof. But if you give the cool nod and he/she doesn't respond it generally goes unnoticed. Perhaps a fear of rejection in public.

    But I still think it stinks of laziness.
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  5. #30
    Dr House Rule's Adam's Avatar
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    ok well i come under geek because i put my thumb up dunno why i always have haha suppose it sounds strange but then again thats me

  6. #31
    Swishy Pirate CaptLex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam
    ok well i come under geek because i put my thumb up dunno why i always have haha suppose it sounds strange but then again thats me
    That's the Fonzie gesture, Adam . . . aaaayyyyy!
    But why is the rum gone?! - Capt. Jack Sparrow [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl[/SIZE]

    Why is the rum always gone? - Capt. Jack Sparrow [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest[/SIZE]

    Why is all but the rum gone? No, the rum's gone too . . .
    - [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: At World End[/SIZE]

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  7. #32
    Raksha's My Dreamboat Tracy_Victoria's Avatar
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    I just have to post this!

    I read this thread earlier, as I have read many of the threads in the FtM forum, as I hope and see simularities, in you guys, as I do in myself being a MtF dresser.

    Anyway after reading and making several posts as My SO (raksha)dissapeared of somewhere to one of her/our friends only return 10 minutes before our son was coming out of scouts, and she had almost driven pass the place. women!

    Anyway, minutes later I'm dispatched off to get him, I pull in to the car park, reverse in to a small gap, the bloke is sitting in the next car, and I give him the nod!

    it's probably a reaction or acknoledgement I've given daily, yet never even realised it. hence having read about it here was the first time in my life I have ever been aware of it.

    Just thought I'd share that with you guys!

    take care

    Tracy
    Cya

    Tracy

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  8. #33
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    The nod is something thats done when you make eye contact with another guy.

    Having grown up around aggressive macho type men, the nod in this context is something thats only done to other guys that you don't know that well, or at all. For me when in male mode, I'm highly confident and can be very aggressive when I need to be, I rarely nod first in this type of aggressive context. You would use unflinching eye contact to exude your dominance.
    It can be an almost animalistic thing, a sign of submission if you nod first, or a sign of dominance if you hold the stare and they nod first. Holding another guy's stare, in the context I mean it, as in a biker bar or some other similar place, is showing them you wont "back down", if you dont know them. Whoever nod's first or looks away, has lost their dominance. It can get pretty thick, depending on the area, the way you wish to be percieved, the crowd your in, ect...

    In relation to the natural world, think of the above explanation as the Alpha male, where the Alpha male is the aggressor. There have been many references to the "stare down", and thats what it comes down to in the above stated context.

    On the other end of the spectrum. It can be used, for example, in a store. So your in a store and you can't find what your looking for. First you catch the eye of an employee, then nod up, then take a step or two towards them, to let them know you need help. In my way of thinking, you nod up to show them your face, to show them that you want to make contact. If your in said store and you see someone you know, the nod always goes down for a "hello". If you were to see a closer friend from a distance and you planned on talking to them, the nod goes down first for a hello, then back up with a smile, all the while walking toward them and keeping eye contact. In all respects this is done very quickly, while maintaining eye contact.

    This is a very interesting part of the male perception and behavior, and to be honest, before I read this thread it had never even crossed my mind why we even do this, it's just ingrained.

    I hope this has shed a bit of light on certain aspect's and if anyone has any question's, I'll help in any way I can.

  9. #34
    Swishy Pirate CaptLex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BethGG
    I'd say the female equivilent is: for someone you don't really know- a small tightlipped smile, someone who is a friend but is across the room- a small wave and a big smile. I think perhaps the "small smile" is the girl to girl equivelent.
    Yup, I'm very familiar with the small, tight-lipped smile. I've definitely done this without even thinking.
    But why is the rum gone?! - Capt. Jack Sparrow [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl[/SIZE]

    Why is the rum always gone? - Capt. Jack Sparrow [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest[/SIZE]

    Why is all but the rum gone? No, the rum's gone too . . .
    - [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: At World End[/SIZE]

    [SIZE="3"]Lex on the Beach[/SIZE]. . . [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #35
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    The nod is a life saver. I usually follow the nod of the approaching male pedestrian with one of my own; saves me the need to use my unmanly voice.

  11. #36
    The Wayward Wren's Avatar
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    Yup, I'm very familiar with the small, tight-lipped smile. I've definitely done this without even thinking.
    The tight-lipped smile...Reminds me of my mother-in-law. I think that one means, I want to kill you but I'm excercising decorum. Or maybe it's just her.
    Two monks were watching a flag flapping in the wind. One said to the other, "The flag is moving."
    The other replied, "The wind is moving."
    Huineng overheard this. He said, "Not the flag, not the wind; mind is moving."

  12. #37
    boi - gurl - whatever... Ms. Donna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Donna
    Great... Now I'm gonna wind up analyzing every friggin' thing I do...
    I can't believe I never paid attention to this before.

    OK, I do the 'small tightlipped smile' thing - in fact, I do it a lot.

    The following all assume that I have made eye-contact with the other person:
    • If I pass a woman I don't know at work, she gets the 'small tightlipped smile'.
    • If I pass a woman I do know at work, she gets my one finger wave and a smile.
    • If I pass a man I don't know at work, sometimes they get the nod - sometimes not. I'm not sure of the criteria in effect here.
    • If I pass a man I do know at work, they get the nod - usually with a "wa'ssup" or "how's it goin". At a distance, they just get the nod.


    Who would have thought that such a simple gesture could generate so much discussion.

    Love & Stuff,
    Donna
    Just your average transgender non-op transsexual
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  13. #38
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    I suspect the exact meaning of the nod varies from place to place and subculture to subculture so here's what it seems to mean to me. It's true that there is the downward nod and an upward nod. It's also true that men don't always nod to each other when meeting the gaze - sometimes there's a brief contact followed by ignoring the other. The downward nod is usually when you know the person andthey're fairly near and you want to acknowledge them but don't expect to spend any time with them at the moment - it's like what's left of a tip of the hat. The upward nod is usually when you know the person and he's farther away and you want to acknowledge him - it's like what's left of saying "Hey!" or "Hello". There is also the embarrassed nod, which might be either, mostly depending on the distance away. And there is also the aggression mitigating nod which occurs when you've accidentally been staring at someone and they notice.

    With women, the smile often takes the place of the nod and distance doesn't matter so much. Typically a man will notice a woman from farther away and will then ignore her (unless they are close) until he reaches a certain distance and then will quickly glance and if they know the person smile or say hi. Meanwhile the woman has been observing the man with her peripheral vision. If the man does not acknowledge the woman at the distance when she expects that glance, you'll often find that the woman is watching you - it seems like she's wondering what's up. It's my suspicion that the distance at which men and women scope each other out is different and that this permits each to observe the other briefly without committing any gesture.

  14. #39
    boi - gurl - whatever... Ms. Donna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex
    Do guys do that sort of thing a lot? Like, give the nod to random strangers? Or is it just me? 'Cos this has happened before.
    As a rule, I won't initiate the nod with stranger. I will, however, acknowledge and nod back if the other guy nods first.

    Love & Stuff,
    Donna
    Just your average transgender non-op transsexual
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  15. #40
    Swishy Pirate CaptLex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex
    Yeah, that's what I usually do. But do you have strangers acknowledging you? It seems weird to me.
    Maybe it's a regional thing. For example, here in the big city most people wouldn't say hello to a stranger walking down the street, but in small towns and smaller cities around this country it's quite common to have total strangers greet you as if they know you. Having grown up in the big city, I found this odd behavior when I first ventured out to smaller communities. I'm guessing it might be something like that.
    But why is the rum gone?! - Capt. Jack Sparrow [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl[/SIZE]

    Why is the rum always gone? - Capt. Jack Sparrow [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest[/SIZE]

    Why is all but the rum gone? No, the rum's gone too . . .
    - [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: At World End[/SIZE]

    [SIZE="3"]Lex on the Beach[/SIZE]. . . [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  16. #41
    The Wayward Wren's Avatar
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    I got the nod the other day, from some guy I've never seen before in my entire life. I was on my way to uni, walk past this guy, he gives me the nod, I give him the nod back, and walk away thinking, "Who the hell was that!?"
    Maybe he thought you were hot. Or was having a head spasm.
    Two monks were watching a flag flapping in the wind. One said to the other, "The flag is moving."
    The other replied, "The wind is moving."
    Huineng overheard this. He said, "Not the flag, not the wind; mind is moving."

  17. #42
    Bandit Keith sparro's Avatar
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    I nod at people. I picked it up... somewhere. I use it to say hello, or in acknowlegement. I've seen lots of people nod in my lifetime. Boys and girls, for all kinds of reasons. This is getting a little ridiculous.

    It's a cross cultural thing, from neighbourhood to neighbourhood, really. I think this for has given it MORE IMPORTANCE THEN IT IS ACTUALLY WORTHY OF. Think of it this way; a ftm who nods, but has a sashé in their walk gives them away as female, how come a ftm who doesn't nod but has an androgenous to manly walk can pass, with or without "THE nod".

    I LOVE to scream and hug. I'm a man who's comfortable with his sexuality, and expression of emotion X_X. It is who I am.

  18. #43
    Action crossdresser Marlena Dahlstrom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex
    Do guys do that sort of thing a lot? Like, give the nod to random strangers? Or is it just me? 'Cos this has happened before. (One of the best ones being when some guy walked past and said, " 'Sup brother.")
    As others have said, the amount of greeting varies by location and culture. For example, last weekend I was doing the Sam Spade walking tour in San Francisco (BTW, highly recomended) much of which is in the Tenderloin, which is a fairly rough area of town. I found I was definitely doing it more -- it was "you don't mess me with me, I won't mess with you" thing. The "wassup" thang can be a further way of reducing potential tension.

    There's also a territorial aspect to it. For example, on a busy street I probably don't get the nod to most other guys. The exception being if one ofrboth of us needs to manuever around the other. But if it's pretty empty, I'm more likely to do it, especially if the other guy is standing around "owning" the space where he is.

    Sparro, I agree "the nod" isn't going to make or break whether someone blends in. I think it's been a topic of discussion more because it's something that's usually not consciously done, so it's both a bit intriguing to some people and takes a bit more explaining since usually one doesn't think about how and why it's done.
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  19. #44
    androgeny (I wish) julz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristineK
    Let me chime in from my "guy side" here!

    You have to do this the right way though. You NEVER hold the door open and let him walk through ahead of you...that's way too strange. If you are going to be polite, you have to walk through first, and hold it open behind you for him. A quick (and I mean QUICK) glance to signal that you did the polite thing for him can be OK, but nothing more, no smile, eye contact, or other form of acknowledgement, otherwise he'll "weird out" on you.
    Hmm. I don't care if guys think I'm wierd, I still hold the door open from behind. It is kind of my way of saying "screw you chivarly". It does really weird guys out though. Still, I agree with Wren. Do what's natural. Generally as far as greeting other people I smile really big if I am initiating the gesture (I guess because I grew up on a small island where I knew just about everyone). If someone else nods/smiles/waves first I'll nod/smile/wave back.

  20. #45
    The Wayward Wren's Avatar
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    Validation, it tingles.

    Seriously, as my 5'3" female self I still hold doors open the chivalrous way for whomever. I get wierd looks, screw them though.
    Two monks were watching a flag flapping in the wind. One said to the other, "The flag is moving."
    The other replied, "The wind is moving."
    Huineng overheard this. He said, "Not the flag, not the wind; mind is moving."

  21. #46
    Neuter Freyja's Avatar
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    I've always nodded, but always put it down to my not being very demonstrative and being at a loss in terms of small talk and the like. I just don't do big reactions. I can't say I considered it masculine. And I open the door if I'm in front or if the other person is carrying something...

    I generally stare at people blankly as they go through the whole 'good morning, how are you' routine....

    I prefer to open, and have the door opened 'for me' by whoever is in front just holding onto it so as the other person can follow, not the whole "here let me now open the door for you" scenario. My SO opens my car door for me, has done for 3 years, still weirds me out (except when I'm carrying something with two hands)
    Last edited by Freyja; 05-19-2006 at 09:43 AM.

  22. #47
    Swishy Pirate CaptLex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristineK
    Let me chime in from my "guy side" here! You have to do this the right way though. You NEVER hold the door open and let him walk through ahead of you...that's way too strange. If you are going to be polite, you have to walk through first, and hold it open behind you for him. A quick (and I mean QUICK) glance to signal that you did the polite thing for him can be OK, but nothing more, no smile, eye contact, or other form of acknowledgement, otherwise he'll "weird out" on you.
    I've never had a problem with this - men "weirding out" on me. I always hold doors open for people - old people, young people, men and women, people with kids, pets and packages, people in wheelchairs or with walkers or canes, just people - out of common courtesy. In fact, I usually get thanked by the men, while a lot of the women just walk on through without even an acknowledgement - to which I always yell "You're welcome!"
    But why is the rum gone?! - Capt. Jack Sparrow [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl[/SIZE]

    Why is the rum always gone? - Capt. Jack Sparrow [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest[/SIZE]

    Why is all but the rum gone? No, the rum's gone too . . .
    - [SIZE="1"]Pirates of the Caribbean: At World End[/SIZE]

    [SIZE="3"]Lex on the Beach[/SIZE]. . . [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  23. #48
    Senior Member Taylor105's Avatar
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    I hold doors for people. It's common courtesy. As far as the nod goes. I have done it my whole life. Sometimes other guys nod to me first. I usually nod back and say "wassup"? Usually they say "not much". This is the whole convo. We are walking towards each other and then passing. I mean most people really don't care what's up with someone they don't know and the other person is just answering because it was a question. lol But yeah, I have gotten the nod from guys my whole life. I guess to me it is normal. Taylor

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