TS questions.. all welcome to reply

[Ms. Donna]

I have to ask those who can speak for everyone else's feelings and preferences.. "what color IS the sky in your world?"

Whatever it is, you know it's the right colour.

I felt rather insulted for all here who won't go all the way with transition, for any reason.. or who won't come out in the end absolutely passing. I think that many judge transition in those terms. While I judge transition this way: Find whatever is available and you are able and comfortable doing.. that will help you to be comfortable in your own skin.

Welcome to our world!

One of the problems I saw with combining the TG and TS forums was this very debate: it always starts off well intentioned but ends on a sour note. It's not that we can't get along, but what winds up happening is that it becomes an idealogical debate - like debating who's religion is the 'right' one. No one is going to give in to the other. But, if we can all agree that our choices are right for us, there's no reason to not get along.

This is, in part, the reason that there is no real Transgender community... There's just too much infighting. Very sad...

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Tamara Croft]

My beef is with these so called studies that are being quoted <snip>

Just because they aren't here in black and white, does not mean they don't exist, which seems to be what you are saying. I've also read a lot of information on the internet (don't ask me to quote it, it's various sites I didn't save) and I have also read that a lot of people go through with the op and have regretted it later on.

If you haven't seen these studies where 'alot' or 'most of us' have said they regret it, how can you comment? Just because it states 'alot' doesn't mean that includes all TS's, it is based on those that took part in the study.

[~Dee~]

Welcome to our world!

This is, in part, the reason that there is no real Transgender community... There's just too much infighting. Very sad...

it is sad.
but it can also be a very demeaning and harsh community.
there seems to be this unwritten hierarchy, that people have touched on, and that just makes me so damn mad that i cant describe it.
ive spoken with other TS's and when they find out im not on hormones yet.. thats it .. they kinda drift away ..
im no longer good enough for their presence.

so what? ... we are going to get into a contest on who is more TS/TG ?
bugger orf.

i also seem to get told by a couple of people "well, after youve had surgery you will understand" or "after surgery your thoughts will completely change"
and this can really get old fast.
i didnt like it when people said to me "youll understand when you grow up" and i dont like being talked down to now.

to me, i think its great that there is such a wide range of diverse groups within the community ... it means that no two stories are the same .. if we were all the same then once youd heard one persons story .. youd give up making more friends, itd be just plain boring after that.

i am glad to hear that there are people who have transitioned without hormones or the need for surgery .. and im also happy to hear about those that are on hormones and no surgery ... just as i am happy to hear about going all the way.
im not going to judge people because of their ideas on where they lay on the TS/TG scale .. its just too moronic in my mind.

and to all those people that ive talked to and have thought themselves better than others

[tori-e]

Tori~
Thanx for answering. Hope you wore a hard hat when you entered.. LOL

Yes! Next time I'll read the whole thread first!



Tori

[Tamara Croft]

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?

After recently discovering that Tam is not just a fetish CD as I thought, I can now answer this question. Tam is quite content living the way she is now, although the limited dressing does make her very depressed. I don't know what the future holds, I don't know if she will ever transition.

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?

None right now, but I think this will probably change in the future. Tam is happier when enfemme, but right now this isn't an option. She is still embarrassed about the whole thing, so discussing future plans can sometimes be like getting blood out of a stone.

[Priss]

Kitty.

Those of us who have had SRS, etc... Identify ourselves in as many different ways as the rest of the people here. The general idea, and in a perfect world, is this however...

Once you've had the surgery, you are the correct gender and no longer trans...

In a perfect world this works and we can just go about the rest of our lives as any other person of our gender. But this isn't a perfect world. We still live in a world where if something like this is found out, that people will see us as non-human and something that won't be missed if they decide to just kill us. That's partially why some of us still identify ourselves as a post-op TS, it reminds us to be careful out there. The other reasons we are so differentiate in the terms that we apply to ourselves is due to the varied experiences and struggles we all go through. No two people have exactly the same life experience going through all of this.

There are those however who do call it good, and disappear into the normal society. A lot of those however live in fear of ever being found out.

[tori-e]

it is

ive spoken with other TS's and when they find out im not on hormones yet.. thats it .. they kinda drift away ..
im no longer good enough for their presence.

so what? ... we are going to get into a contest on who is more TS/TG ?
bugger orf.

i also seem to get told by a couple of people "well, after youve had surgery you will understand" or "after surgery your thoughts will completely change"
and this can really get old fast.
i didnt like it when people said to me "youll understand when you grow up" and i dont like being talked down to now.

to me, i think its great that there is such a wide range of diverse groups within the community ... it means that no two stories are the same .. if we were all the same then once youd heard one persons story .. youd give up making more friends, itd be just plain boring after that.

i am glad to hear that there are people who have transitioned without hormones or the need for surgery .. and im also happy to hear about those that are on hormones and no surgery ... just as i am happy to hear about going all the way.
im not going to judge people because of their ideas on where they lay on the TS/TG scale .. its just too moronic in my mind.

and to all those people that ive talked to and have thought themselves better than others

For heavens sake! I know lots of great people that are pure CD's and a few that are post-op. Instead of breaking our community in to even smaller pieces, we should be working to together to make a stronger community. As a group we face of lot adversity and need to educate the general public that we are just people. There are a lot of people working for TG rights and trying align ourselves with the LGBT comminity, it the first "easier" step out. This makes us stronger and more visible.

While I was at Esprit, I had the pleasure watching a presentation with Mara Keisling. If you want to debate with someone, help her in her fight for TG rights. In the states, she is working against a right wing (hiding as Christians) hate group, that is trying to undermine the TG movement. You know, "Why did God make TG's??? – For target practice of course!" These people are filled with hate for TG's. But instead of getting angry with them, try to understand that they are people just like us, but have grown up with a lot of hate and intolerance. What they need is education and something to fill that hole in their heart.

Boy, I digress!

Dee, I'm on hormones and would still like to be your friend!

With much love,
sincerely,
Tori

[GypsyKaren]

Oh geez, will everybody please calm down? Go smoke a cigarette or something.

Steph, nobody's making blanket statements about anybody, they're just citing individual sources and identifying it as such. Nobody said "we" should be happy as is, they said, myself included, "I'm" happy as is. I certainly wouldn't presume to tell anyone what to do or what they need to be content, everybody's different.

Am I through with my transition? Yes, at least for now, happy as is. As long as I'm sharing my life with Kat, I'll go no further because I see no reason to mess with success. To me, it's not just my life, but our life, and a good one it is. Am I compromising somehow? Perhaps, but life is full of compromises.The key is finding balance, and we've done that, so I have absolutely no complaints, none whatsoever.

Do I still consider myself TS? Yes I do, and always will because I'm not a genetic woman. I see nothing wrong with that, to me it's just a simple fact of nature. In any event, before someone jumps on that, let's save it for another day.

It really saddens me that there is such a rift in the TS community, and yes there is one. Like what's been said before, I've been to several TS meetings where I wasn't taken seriously because I don't do hormones. What bloody difference should that make? We're all the same, yet we're all different, but we're all in the same boat together and we'll all get a lot further if there aren't any leaks.

Karen

[Kimberley]

For heavens sake! I know lots of great people that are pure CD's and a few that are post-op. Instead of breaking our community in to even smaller pieces, we should be working to together to make a stronger community. As a group we face of lot adversity and need to educate the general public that we are just people. There are a lot of people working for TG rights and trying align ourselves with the LGBT comminity, it the first "easier" step out. This makes us stronger and more visible.
Tori

*************
Tori, I couldnt agree with you more. I am sure I said it similar somewhere else that we seem to have this discrimination complex that is in my opinion, counterproductive to our goals as a community... acceptance by society. How can we gain that when we cant even accept our own community?


Kimberely

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

For heavens sake! I know lots of great people that are pure CD's and a few that are post-op. Instead of breaking our community in to even smaller pieces, we should be working to together to make a stronger community. As a group we face of lot adversity and need to educate the general public that we are just people. There are a lot of people working for TG rights and trying align ourselves with the LGBT comminity, it the first "easier" step out. This makes us stronger and more visible.

If you don't mind a word from someone who's "just a crossdresser"....

I've seen these sorts of "who's in/who's out" wars before in other fields and it may make more sense to thing in terms of the transgender communities. In other words, yes we do have differences -- and at times it's important to recognize them. (As has been mentioned previously, there are discussions TSs may have about transitioning that aren't going to concern the average CD and possibly the average TG.) Likewise, not everyone is going to have the same needs and concerns. As Jamison Green said, there's no one way to be transgender.

But despite those differences, we also have a lot in common and that's where being allies in a common cause makes us stronger than we are as individuals (or smaller groups). After all, those who discriminate against us rarely bother to ask if one is a transsexual, transgenderist, crossdresser or drag queen.

[Wendi {LI NY}]

I am pre -op ts .i been on hormone for 4 yrs and electrosis is all most finish [thank god]. not living 24/7 as of yet ..Wife is supported to me .
i am going to get FFS in Oct with Dr Speigel in Boston .getting forehead reduction ,brow shaving ,nose and face lift . I cant wait for it to happen .
I dont know if i will get srs in the future but it may happen in the future .
Just to live a female means the world to me and srs would be the icing .
hugs Wendi:

[~Dee~]

Dee, I'm on hormones and would still like to be your friend!

awwww .. fanks
we are always open to new friends.

i know that there are post op TS's who do not follow this 'holier than though' sort of approach.
we have a Post op TS that lives just a few streets away and she is the nicest person you could possibly imagine .. she wouldnt discriminate against anyone at all.
but then there are others who seem to think that if you havent been on hormones, or you arent young enough or arent old enough .. then you dont make the cut.

kinda weird really.
i mean .. isnt it that most transgendered people, be is CD'ers, TS or whatever, start out pretty much feeling alone?
i know i did .. i was certain that i was the only one who could possible be around who was like this ... and then i noticed that there were more .. hell, there are lots just in our local area!
omg! i thought .. this is great.
now ... how does it go from that 'im alone' to not needing people so badly that you are willing to push most TG's away?

doesnt really make much sense to me ...

[~Kitty GG~]

Things got kinda heated in here.

But I don't see that as a bad thing. Because look at how we've all pulled together in end.

When the disagreements started it wasn't so much that everyone thought they were right and everyone else was wrong.. But that most of us has had someone else tell us what's best for us regarding transition, at some time in the past.

But now I think its come clear that we all respect the different choices. And maybe we've found some glue to help us understand eachother and stick together.

Marlena~
Of course we welcome your thoughts.

The q's I posed were for TS/TG.. and the SOs. I was after the actual transition plans that people have. And so I wasn't looking for any hypothetical transitions from those who don't intend to transistion. Not that those wouldn't be interesting.. but I was saving that for another time.

I didn't think far enough ahead to realize that CDs or anyone who isn't transitioning might want to add a comment. To maybe cheer someone on.

So please consider this an invitation to do so!

I only ask that if you do NOT intend to transition.. that you don't post fantasy transitions.

We have pretty much hashed over the disagreements so I also ask that comments be given in the spirit of togetherness and not to shoot down an opinion that you disagree with or that doesn't work for you.

Wendi~

Thanx for you input!
It makes me smile to hear when someone is moving foward and living their life through transition.

i am going to get FFS in Oct with Dr Speigel in Boston

I've heard Dr Speigel mentioned by quite a lot.. I'll have to do some web research and learn a bit about him.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Thanx again everybody!!!!!!
L&H
~K

[Kimberley]

Kehleyr,
Thank you for the insightful and well thought out post. It was wonderful.

Kimberley.

[Briarose GG]

If you are TS or your So is TS..

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?
I don't think he is certain at this time. He says he wants everything North of the belt done but I am not sure he will be satisfied once he has gone that far. (Just my anxiety speaking )

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?
He is unable at this time to do anything other than gather info.


I'm not doing a survery.. or just being nosy. I'm genuinely interested and would like to get to know the TS faction here a lot better.

Love, Hugs, & Thanx
~Kitty~

Briarose GG

[Kim E]

First off, concerning "studies" of post-op transwomen, who regret having SRS. To my knowledge, there exists nowhere, a broad comprehensive study to indicate this. Not to say, these regretful women don't exist, I just can't believe in the large numbers we are led to believe. Without clinical research involving the tens of thousands of post-ops, in the US alone, I doubt the validity of these 'studies'. To me, they fall in the same realm as polls and surveys conducted by political parties and news organizations.

I'm a member of Callie's forum, a huge private forum comprised entirely of non, pre and post-op transwomen. Kehleyr, please correct me if I'm wrong. I have never seen nor had any indication of any number of post-op women regretting their SRS. Common sense would indicate, if there were any regrets regarding SRS, it would be voiced in a private forum among their peers and friends.

SRS is not a magic cure all. If a person suffers from extreme depression, has a mental illness or emotional problem, is alcoholic, is addicted or is not totally 100% convinced that SRS is for them, after SRS they are going to deal with these same issues, only as a post-op. Yes, then I'm convinced some of those will regret SRS. The struggles and problems in their lives pre-op have been compounded now by SRS. I wonder how many of these 'studies' factor in those other circumstances.

Kim

[CaptLex]

I've seen these sorts of "who's in/who's out" wars before in other fields and it may make more sense to thing in terms of the transgender communities. . . . . But despite those differences, we also have a lot in common and that's where being allies in a common cause makes us stronger than we are as individuals (or smaller groups). After all, those who discriminate against us rarely bother to ask if one is a transsexual, transgenderist, crossdresser or drag queen.

Yes, exactly true. I see these kinds of differences and self-defeating behaviors in every kind of community. For example, it's not unlike African-Americans who discriminate against each other because some are darker-skinned and some are lighter-skinned, when in fact they should band together against all who would discriminate against them. Likewise, in the Hispanic community there are some who scorn others who don't speak Spanish or whose features make them "too white" to be Hispanic. This kind of stupidity divides the community instead of keeping it strong and able to fight discrimination from others who are uninformed and prejudiced.

So it's the same with the CD/TG/TS community, it seems. How are we going to put up a united front against those who would oppress us, if we're going to segregate and bicker amongst ourselves? It's human nature, I suppose, but I don't have any patience for this. If another TG/TS person doesn't want anything to do with me because he or she can't relate to my situation, then so be it. I won't have anything to do with that person either. It's a shame, but I'd just move on. I don't have the time nor the inclination to deal with stupidity.

[~Kitty GG~]

First off, concerning "studies" of post-op transwomen, who regret having SRS. To my knowledge, there exists nowhere, a broad comprehensive study to indicate this. Not to say, these regretful women don't exist, I just can't believe in the large numbers we are led to believe. Without clinical research involving the tens of thousands of post-ops, in the US alone, I doubt the validity of these 'studies'. To me, they fall in the same realm as polls and surveys conducted by political parties and news organizations.

Kim

I dunno of any particular studies that show this.. but even if there are.. consider this:

I recently had a proceedure called uterine ablation. Now when I was looking for info about it I found that it doesn't have a hugely high success rate.. That of those who've had it AND REPORTED BACK.. the majority were disappointed.

Well I went ahead and had it done. Its been a year plus now. And guess what.. I'm totally happy with the results. So IF I REPORTED BACK I'd be a success to go on the statistics.

But since I have no trouble with it.. I haven't felt the need to go back.

I wonder if its not a case of the squeaky wheel. How many post-ops who are happy are gonna bother being so vocal?

Who's doing the studies? Is it someone who would be way more apt to get the unhappy ones?

We know a few post-ops. Some are happy and some are unhappy.. but in general... from my own personal experience.. the happy ones were happy about themselves before surgery and viewed it like so many here do.. "the icing on the cake". If for some reason they were unable to have the op.. they'd have still been happy. And those who are unhappy were unhappy before. They were looking for a way to FIX things, not always just thier physical bodies.. but their whole life sometimes.

There are quite a few people in the world who don't know how to be happy.

Think about people who win the lottery and are still miserable after. People who attain any goal in life.. and are still unhappy. I think that if a study was done about lottery winners we might hear how its a bad thing to win the lottery.. LOL

JUST MY THOUGHTS.. I'M NOT MAKING ANY HARD & FAST RULES OR DISCREDITING ANY STUDIES.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Briarose~

Thanx for answering.

Communication is the key.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

[Tamara Croft]

First off, concerning "studies" of post-op transwomen, who regret having SRS. To my knowledge, there exists nowhere, a broad comprehensive study to indicate this.

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html
http://www.realityresources.com/regret.htm
http://jenellerose.com/htmlpostings/...s_and_cons.htm

But there is a lot of info out there if you look. I've not read all of this, but it shows that some do regret having srs.

[heather_nouveau]

If you are TS or your So is TS..

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?


I'm not doing a survery.. or just being nosy. I'm genuinely interested and would like to get to know the TS faction here a lot better.

Love, Hugs, & Thanx
~Kitty~

Hi Kitty!

I am (lifelong, but recently diagnosed) a TS.

A) To what extent do you (or does your SO) INTEND to transistion?

A: Although it is still early days for me, I fully intend to begin laser/electrolysis, hormones, probably multiple cosmetic procedures. I'm fairly certain I'm going to have SRS eventually.

B) What steps have you (or your SO) taken so far?

B: I've been shaving (full body) for over a year now, and have been on herbals, so that's about the extent of my steps thus far.

Hope this helps,

Heather

[OniKoneko]

Since you say you only need to be physically modified a bit.. and there is a lot that's possible today.. why do you also say that you will wait till they can make you a genetic girl?

I didn't mean that I wait until they can do that to do anything... I was just making a silly "Oh I can't wait until..." comment, you know? Like an overly optimistic, excited girl who wants to find out if she got a pony for christmas. I do only need to be physically modified a bit and, then, I hope I can be a force of cuteness that can cause acute (pun intended :P) occular bleeding just by doing one of those super-cute poses or something. I'd do that on the bus and cackle as people scream while blood pours from their eyes. Yesssss~ MYAHAHAHAHAHAH-...a... Ahem... I mean... I like flowers and butterflies... >.> And... making... <.< cookie... >.> pie... <.> cakes...?

I think I need sleep. I'm a bit hyper... :\ Don't mind me...

[~Kitty GG~]

But there is a lot of info out there if you look. I've not read all of this, but it shows that some do regret having srs.

Some do regret srs. People regret things all the time.

Even reading those three reports I have yet to see any high numbers of regret. And those reports cited things like unrealistic expectation, psychosis, and life problems that stemmed back before transition as reasons for the regret.

All in all its like everything else in life. If we're unprepared for it or have unrealistic expectations, or aren't capable of making the decision in the first place.. We're more likely to regret it later and probably blame it and everyone else for our misery.

But those who have realistic expectations, are capable of making the decision, and take the time and the steps to be prepared, and to be fully accepting of themselves and their limitations, and are happy in general .. will probably not have regrets.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Heather~
Thanx for adding to the thread.
Look forward to cheering you along the way.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

[Kim E]

Thanks, Kitty, for your post and the ability to explain my point better than I could.

Kim

[joanlynn28]

I would say that the more I dwell on this issue the more likely I am headed towards the full transition. I have come to the conclusion that I now know that I am definitately transgendered. If I am even questioning myself if I am or am not TG than I must be TG. If I wasn't TG than why would I even be questioning myself if I am or not. Of course I will go all the way, HRT, SRS, etc. I do know what is envolved, I use to read up on the subject in my mother's nursing magazines articles on the care of post-op surgery. And it is a little of my father's fault, he taught me that if you are going to do something do it right. To me anything short of SRS is just not doing the job correctly. And if I was just simply a crossdresser I wouldn't have these feelings that I have. I could probable eliminate dressing in my life if I was just simply a CD. But I can't because I am TG so there.

[pattyme]

So far,

Dressing every oportunity, makeup and all 42 years and counting. Started at counting at five.

Removed all hair, except my locks, about 5 years, on and of for 10. Eyebrows and arms for the last year. Hidding in public - no one has even asked?

Worked on my voice for a year now - singalong with Nora Jonnes mostly.

Came out to my mum - easier than I thought. Got to work on the rest.

Inventoried eveything I could think of needed to transition. Thoughts, strategies, costs etc. If anyone needs a list or wants to start a thread on this it would be good for all.

Started seeing a therapist, 4th session tomorrow.

Actualy went for my first checkup in well ...... ever. No good news there.
Don't wait so long is the lesson here.

I want to try living as a girl - no question in my mind. It's about finding a place to be happy and trying things. The goal is to find out what makes me happy - I won't let the question of being a real girl or boy (for that matter) interfear with this quest. I don't want to make others unhappy this is the real conundrum.

Patty
___________________________
On the road too ..........