i find this funny

[Kate Simmons]

Good for me Tree but then I'm not "normal" according to some people who get shocked when Ericka dresses like a guy (Eric), but then again, just what is "normal" these days? Ericka

[Caitlintgsd]

......Some of the MtFs have told me that when they feel the need for deeper discussions they usually hop the fence to find out what we're talking about over here. Always welcome, ladies.

Thanks!

[Maria2004]

Yeah, they're out there . . . I've found some.

I'm really sorry to hear that. It doesn't make any sense to me.

but when I see it proclaimed here it's usually in threads where no one seems to be looking to hook-up with an admirer. And in many cases it's followed by remarks about how disgusting men are. To me those comments are judgmental and bordering on homophobia. I'm not attracted to women, but I would never insult them or their admirers by saying "ewwww, women are so gross!"

Intersting. Yes I've seen those types of posts before, I'm like "pfiiit" and keep looking for something more substantive. But I can now see your point, and your quite right. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm very sorry about your brothers, and I'm glad you got to tell your second brother that you loved him.

Thank you very much. Even 10 years on, it's impossible for me to discuss this without tears in my eyes. His sexual orientation was always non-issue to me from the night he told me. I learned after his death that he had held resentmet towards me, which he was able to let go and "forgive". I don't know what that was. Perhaps he felt abandoned, since I was the only one in the family that knew, but was off taking care of my own family at the time, and he had no one else to turn too, I don't know. All I do know is when we parted for the last time it was as true brothers.

[boi_0h]

That's a very good question, Jamie. One that I used to wonder about all the time too. I'd be interested to hear why other people think this is the case.

To put my own two cents into the pot, I would say that the MtFs need an outlet to indulge the fun side of crossdressing, and this is the reason for all the talk of shoes, makeup and (of course) panties. Also, there's an element of fantasy for some MtFs, which usually isn't the case for FtMs, so you don't see those kinds of threads on this side of the fence. I think the more serious threads on the MtF side usually have to do with their SOs and families.

Some of the MtFs have told me that when they feel the need for deeper discussions they usually hop the fence to find out what we're talking about over here. Always welcome, ladies.

I absolutely agree with CaptLex. I guess there is no officially recognized paraphilia of women (women dressing as men for the excitement of it) or at least not that I've heard of, anyhow

[Kate Simmons]

I absolutely agree with CaptLex. I guess there is no officially recognized paraphilia of women (women dressing as men for the excitement of it) or at least not that I've heard of, anyhow

Well guys and gals, I guess I must be the exception to the rule because Ericka CDing as Eric does excite me. Like that really surprises anyone here. Ericka

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I absolutely agree with CaptLex. I guess there is no officially recognized paraphilia of women (women dressing as men for the excitement of it) or at least not that I've heard of, anyhow

As far as crossdressing and the DSM-IV, it's defined as an exclusively male activity. OTOH (as with a lot of other "official theories" about TG stuff) for people who aren't supposed to exist, there are sure are a good number of them running around.

Arlene Istar Lev's excellent "Transgender Emergence" talks about the extent that psychologists/therapists approaches to TG issues have had a lot of hidden assumptions that reflected the wider societal attitudes of that era about gender and sexual orientation.

[Kieron Andrew]

going wayyyyyyyy of topic for a split second if i may.....i love the new avatar Marlena

[Caitlintgsd]

Some of the MtFs have told me that when they feel the need for deeper discussions they usually hop the fence to find out what we're talking about over here. Always welcome, ladies.

My apologies for quoting again. Although I don't want to label "the other side" as redundant, at times I need to ponder.
Am I wasting my time here? I find it awfully difficult to answer threads regarding "look at me in my new dress (pic attached)" or "what kind of underwear do you like".

I'm not saying that I'm better or above anybody. Perhaps a little confused.

I met with my counselor last evening. It was one of those real soul searching and revealing meetings. I don't know what to do.

My apologies for barging in over here. I just think that it would be a waste to post this over there. I don't really want to rewrite it all. I copied and pasted this out of my yahoo blog....


I met with my counselor tonight (well, actually yesterday by this time). She wanted to discuss my history.

Damn that hurt.

I'd really either forgotten, or buried in my mind, what ****s my parents were. My mother used to beat me with a ping pong paddle. I hated them. Perhaps I still do. I haven't seen them in 8 years. And I'm content to never see them again. I don't talk to them on the phone unless they hunt me down. That happens about every 6 months or so. Then we talk about pure bs.

When I was a teenager I had endless reasons to be out of the house when they were home. I'd only spend a night at home if they were out. I spent a lot of nights on the streets in sub-zero weather, wandering about because it was better than being at home. I'd forgotten about those times. Walking to friends' houses through snow 3 feet deep because it was a better thing to do than stay home. Damn. That hurts to bring that kind of garbage back out. I hope it's for a good reason because I was rather content to not think about it. I'm crying right now. The tears are rolling down my cheeks. My childhood and teen years were a bucket of trash.

I spent my summer evenings partying. I got mixed into a crowd that thought every night was better with blotter. But it was better than being at home.

Home was hell. On good nights I was only ridiculed about how much better my sister was. I haven't spoke with her in over 8 years either and I'd really like to continue staying away from her.

My family doesn't know that I'm ts. I've thought about telling them but why? They may all be dead before I see them again. I know that it's a cold and cruel thing to think, but I hope so...

[Tree GG]

Home was hell. ...They may all be dead before I see them again....

I'm really sorry to read these words. I can't imagine your loneliness. My CD hubby describes his growing up similar to yours. Non-demonstrative parents that believed in not sparing the rod; nit-picking criticism; hypocrosy (associated with church) and on and on. He interacts with his brothers occassionally but has refused to speak civilly to his mother in almost a year now. Says its the best thing he ever did.

I have a family who adore each other. Don't get me wrong, we have our disfunctions (dad is an alcoholic, but he's been sober now for over 20 yrs) and there were some ugly, hurtful times, but we are best friends to each other. If I ask do these pants make me look fat, they'll say yes if it's true & I won't get mad because I know they'd love me if I was big as a house.

So, from the extreme sides of the spectrum, I can only offer you one bit of advice. Act upon what makes you feel calm and peaceful. If no contact is that answer, so be it. You can choose your friends, not your family. But if it is a continuing source of pain & regret, maybe the hard path is eventually best - talk to them; steer clear of the BS; let them know how you interpretted the criticisms and lack of affection.

No easy answers, I know; and only you can choose what's best for you. Please know that I do grieve your loss and hope you find the way past the pain.

[Debb]

Caitlintgsd

I feel that I must address one part of your posting (quoting here):

My family doesn't know that I'm ts. I've thought about telling them but why? They may all be dead before I see them again. I know that it's a cold and cruel thing to think, but I hope so...

(unquote)

I want to be painfully real here for a second.

My wife suffered through a life such as yours for her first 18 years. Her mom and dad died in a fire when she was less than two years old, and she went to live wih her uncle and aunt. Her uncle used to sexually abuse her, and when the guys were over playing cards, he would allow and encourage the others to take their turns too. Among other things.

During our marriage, she has always said things such as the quote above .. that she hated the uncle and aunt, she wished they were dead .. and finally that did happen.

The problem was, they were her only family. She quickly learned that she did not in actual fact "hate" them, only hated what they did. She had very little or no love for them, but she missed them now that it was too late.

Look, I'm not gonna say your family actually gives a damn about you .. I don't know that. I am gonna say, though, that if you choose to tell them about your TG situation, do it for you, NOT for them. And only do it when opportunity knocks .. it seems as if you don't communicate with them all that often, possibly only when they "need" something, and if you call them up specially to tell them, they may interpret that as you "needing" their approval.

Frankly, that is the last thing you need from them, or anyone else.

Caitlin, I say this in the sincere hope that things work out for you, no matter whether you involve family or not. Take care.

Beth

edit:

I wanted to say something about homophobia and heterosexuality.. it could be that some of the people who post about their heterosexuality are doing it to reinforce what they think ought to be the case. In other words, doubt may be present, and they are trying to deny that doubt.

Analysis over.

[Beth-GDB]

Let me first say that I don't usually come over to this side too often because it's too brainy for me. Why is there more fluff on the MtF side? Because girls will be girls! LOL.

I'm inclined to disagree with this. I'll relate a small story.

I used to work in a university. Among my duties there was supervising facilities used by the students and closing the facilities at the end of the advertised open hours. Closing up involved checking the toilets to make sure people weren't inside them (I just opened the doors a bit and announced into the toilets that the building was closing in a few minutes) before I locked the doors and turned on the alarms.

Having seen lots male toilet graffitti over the years, curioisity got the better of me and once in a while after I'd locked everything up I'd go into the women's toilets (when I was sure noone would still be in them) to have a look at what the graffitti was like "on the other side of the wall".

To put it bluntly, the male graffitti was (and no doubt still is) typically sexist, racist and/or homophobic. It was very judemental and dismissive of people that "did not fit into the group". It was the sort of thing I'd expect from 12 year olds, except it was being written/drawn by 20 year olds. This was an enourmous contrast with what was being written on the walls in the women's toilets. No crude drawings, some poems, some questionaires, and general chit-chat that was vastly more intelligent, mature and topical than what their male counterparts were scribbling on the walls.

I realise that this does sound a bit bizarre, but in some ways it's a very candid snapshot of what the guys and girls were prepared to share with their peers, even behind a veil of anonymity. These weren't highschool dropouts, these were people who possess the intellectual calibre to gain entry to some of the highest levels of schooling society provides (and I wasn't working at some podunk cow college either).

So the question is "why is there such a noticable difference?". If I knew, I'd have some excellent material for a research paper on developmental psychology. My "off the cuff" answer is that guys tend to be more superficial in how they relate to their peers and the world in general than is typically acknowledged. Perhaps I'm overgeneralising, and it might be more correct to say that "guys who feel inclined to write/draw graffitti tend to be superficial....". It's a stereotype among guys that girls are the superficial ones, preoccupied with things like hair, clothes, cosmetics, etc, but my personal inclination is that the reverse may be closer to the truth than most males realise or perhaps are prepared to admit to.

We can make similar observations between the content of the MtF and FtM forums here. The MtF forum tends to have a much higher "fluff" ratio in it's threads than the FtM forum. There are differences in the demographics of the memberships of the two forums, and it's the membership of the forums that drive the topics being discussed, so some divergence in content is to be expected between the two forums, but there are some very fundamental psychological differences in the memberships of the two forums. If the memberships of the two forums were basically mirror-imaging each other in our reasons for why we are CD/TS/etc, we would be seeing much closer parallels in the ratios of content between the two forums, but we're not seeing that.

My contention is that the "fluff factor" in the MtF forum isn't "girls being girls", it's actually "guys being guys", and the content of the FtM forum is a more accurate reflection of (and please excuse me for saying this) "girls being girls".

[Satrana]

Is homophobia really so prevalent on that side?

YES!

Male conditioning has two inter-connected phobias which have to be avoided at all costs: homophobia and sissification (being turned into a girl). As cds we are already breaking one of them but many insist on announcing that at least we are not braking the other because that would make us doubly shameful. Being gay or a sissy makes you an untouchable.

Reading between the lines, it is clear that many MTF cds are very afraid of being thought of as being gay. This is a sad state of affairs as it shows that despite our own discrimination for being "sissies" we have not learned to see through other taboos like homosexuality.

When I go out in public I am well aware that others who spot me are not thinking that I am a hetrosexual crossdresser, what they are really thinking is I am an effeminate gay. I have had to teach myself to be at peace at being labelled gay. It does not bother me anymore but it used to because like all men I was conditioned to avoid that label like the plague.

[CaptLex]

As cds we are already breaking one of them but many insist on announcing that at least we are not braking the other because that would make us doubly shameful.

Thank you, Satrana. That finally answers my questions about this. It's like people are saying, "well at least I'm not like him". We want tolerance and acceptance, but we still want to be seen as better than the next guy. So sad.

[CaptLex]

My contention is that the "fluff factor" in the MtF forum isn't "girls being girls", it's actually "guys being guys", and the content of the FtM forum is a more accurate reflection of (and please excuse me for saying this) "girls being girls".

Thanks for your input, Beth. It's funny that the "guys being guys" are accused of acting like stereotypical females, and the "girls being girls" (as you put it, not that I feel that way about myself) are seen as acting like stereotypical males. Weird.

[Beth-GDB]

Thanks for your input, Beth. It's funny that the "guys being guys" are accused of acting like stereotypical females, and the "girls being girls" (as you put it, not that I feel that way about myself) are seen as acting like stereotypical males. Weird.

Please understand that my comment which you quoted was not meant to belittle or dismiss anyone here. The members of this forum have my sincere respect and support.

As for acting out the stereotypes of the genders, perhaps. The argument I was making in my previous post is that those stereotypes are wrong if my personal observations are a reliable measure.

As Vanya and others have pointed out in this and other threads, GG's don't bother talking about many of the topics that repeat themselves regularly on the MtF forum. Is this behaviour on the MtF forum really a bunch of GB's acting out their stereotypical ideas of GG behaviour? I'm inclined to think that the answer is partly yes, albeit based on what I believe is a flawed stereotype and within the context of the people participating in those discussions posessing an underlying fascination with many of the outward female accroutrements. As for the other part of the answer, that's a train of thought that I'm not confident my peanut gallery psychology is adequately equipped to argue at the moment.

[CaptLex]

Please understand that my comment which you quoted was not meant to belittle or dismiss anyone here. The members of this forum have my sincere respect and support.

Oh yeah, I got that. I didn't get the impression that you were ridiculing anyone - I just wanted to quote you correctly. Even though I don't consider myself among the "girls being girls", that's just a matter of labeling - I'm not offended. My point is that I find it eye-opening that it seems each side is behaving in what is more or less an opposite sex stereotype.