CD stuff that puzzles me

[Michelia]

I really find your questions rather irritating. And I think it is because you are an intelligent person that has been on this site quite a while and is in touch with what is happening but sometimes you act like you do not have a clue. I get this feeling you enjoy stoking little fires that do not exist.

The vast majority of CDs, as you well know, do not fit into any of these categories. And if you really seek to understand these behaviors, it does not seem as if the people that engage in them are coming out in droves to volunteer any explanations and/or defend themselves. You do adopt a slightly accusatory or condemning tone in spite of your "tolerance". Maybe you need to try another strategy...?


Michelia

[GingerS]

I dont think there is only ONE type of CD and I dont think that EVERY CD (personality not withsanding) is different. but rather there are MANY types of CDers, each type with different motives and drives, yet each type having a similar "consistancy". that may allow for a system of classification.

This may seem "cold" and "insensitive: to some, but we do it all the time We DO lable ourselves CD , TS and TG already dont we? and are not those classifications important to us?

I think it would be great if we could further subdivide CDing---as that would allow understanding of our own personal conditions and not be misled and confused by the feelings of others who have different driving forces. If you know that you may be a certian TYPE of CD, then you can better serve your own CD 'NEEDS", get a better handle on things and accept who you are.----And accept and respect the differences in others. Living in an uncertan and confused state is little fun for most of us.

I found your questions thought provoking and based on a desire to understand different motivations on why someone cd’s. Seems the make-up and LG reasons have been fully covered.

First, what most gay guys that do drag have told me is it’s for fun, not to attract someone, if fact, seems it’s next to impossible to get “lucky” in drag unless it’s Halloween. In other words, they’re not doing it to attract male partners.

Next, if you can accept this basic definition: Cross-dressing is the act of wearing clothing commonly associated with another gender within a particular society. -- They are some guys, can be straight, bi or gay that are very masculine that like to wear lingerie, skirts and heels but they mix it with suits, uniforms or sports gear, okay, at this point you could say it’s gender bending or fetish dressing but according to the basic definition, it’s still cross-dressing. They call themselves Lingerie Bears and some do it because they find the contrast of masculine vs. feminine all-in-one appealing.
I’ve been out for over 25 years and have never heard of this until a couple of years ago, just thought you might find it interesting. Hope I’m not opening a can of worms, new member here, don’t want to get clobbered!!

[Sierra Evon]

I dont really know about all the gay stuff , but for me and my motivation , witch defines me and only me as a uniqe person, such as we all are anyway , I kinda fall into #2 , #3 , on your shrt list , but only sorta , it all has commonalities as for CD's TV',s , TG , etc. , I guess when you figure that one out you;ll be famous , I dunno eighther , keeps ya guessing tho,,,,,,,

[jayseedee]

well my question is why do CD . do it .. for me being a ts i got it all sorted out my means justify my ends " i am a woman feel like a woman there for dress like a woman and will get surgery to complete the job" but for a CD well you don't want surgery or hormones so why do you do it ? thats my question... and a good one too bet you can't answer that

Hi MJ, if you really do want to know why the MAJORITY of us cross dress perhaps my blog on http://360.yahoo.com/jayseedee will give you a better idea. It is very easy to be mislead by reading the posts on here as most seem to be from borderline TSs or TSs or lifestyle TVs. American dominated sites are, it seems, mostly like this and are not representative of the world at large.
Regards James

[Christa]

It's much easier for me, because i am out, I don't have anyone to answer to,and I am now comfortable with Steph. I don't how it would be for other gays..because they actually have two strikes against them, being gay, and being a crossdresser.It;s not like well they're gay already..so what difference would they're being a crossdresser make.It sort of seems like that is what you are asking.

Steph

The assumptions about gays and gay couples in this thread crack me up! If you want to know about what it's like to be gay and a crossdresser, feel free to ask. I'm both gay and a crossdresser, and don't consider either or those qualities as a "strike against me". Nor does my boyfriend of 16 years.

And can I just say... Marlena Dahlstrom is the smartest chick in the room!?! Love ya, Marlena!!!

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Flattery will get you everywhere, Christa.

A few more thoughts, since I recently spoke to a local PFLAG group, and consequently was thinking about gender varient/sexual orientation issues....

While sexual orientation and gender identity are separate, there are some interesting intersections between the two. As mentioned, it does seem like playing with gender isn't uncommon in the gay and lesbian communities (not only for historical reasons, but for a reason I'll get to in a minute).

Likewise, among crossdressers and other folks on the trans spectrum there does seem to be more acknowledged fluidity when it comes to sexuality. (For example, in the 1999 Yvonne's Place survey of about 1,200 CDs, only about half self-identified as purely hetrosexual. About a quarter identified themselves as bi-curious, and the remainder identified as hetros with bisexual experience, bisexuals and homosexuals.) Incidently, this distribution follows more closely what Kinsey argued was the actual distribution of sexual orientations.

What I see as the common demoninator in both cases is that once having stepped outside of the box that society views as "normal," "conventional" etc. that it's probably easier to acknowledge other "unconventional" feelings. (Someone aptly said that being "straight" is more about being able to take things for granted -- or more likely never even think about them at all -- than it is about being hetrosexual.) So for gays and lesbians it's easier to be an effeminate man or masculine woman, or otherwise express gender in "non-standard" ways. Likewise, for CDs, it's easier to acknowledge being attracted to men, or wanting men to be attracted to you (which isn't necessarily the same thing) once you've stepped outside of "standard" gender expression.

In both cases it's important to remember the differences between fantasies (things you're intrigued by but would never actually do -- at least seriously), desires (things you'd like to do even if you haven't done them) and actual behavior.

So in the case of my gay friends who drag it up for the annual Pride parade, they're essentially fantasy dressing -- for the ornamentation, etc. -- and don't have any serious desire to be women, or even to try to present themselves as if they were (the way CDs usually do).

(OTOH, Christa could probably address this point better than I, but it does also seem like in the gay communities it's not very acceptable to admit one is crossdressing for more than just "drag." The drag queens I know often have trouble dating if it's perceived they're doing for more than just a stage act.)

Likewise, a number of CDs seem to have fantasies about "being the woman" on a date or in bed that they enjoy precisely because it's a fantasy where they can let their imaginations run wild. Sometimes is about sex (whether giving themselves permission to be attracted to men, or being the one who gets seduced, etc.), sometimes it can simply be that being desired is appealing (sort of the "ultimate" in passing), or it can just be that having a man on your arm is a great accessory.

[TxKimberly]

1 - From what I've seen, this is not true. In fact when I first came to the internet I visited a chat room something along the lines of "ask gay guy anything". Had a long conversation with the group in which they told me as nicely as possible (lol) that they intensely DISLIKE cross dressers because when Mr Joe Public thinks of Gay men, it's US he pictures, not the average gay man. sort of a side effect of the media always zeroing in on the queens at gay pride marches and events. Long story short, at least according to those guys, your average gay man does not care for us, let alone do it.
Now to jump on the other side of the line I just drew I've had another thought. (Yes thinking hurt, but I'll get over it). It seems to me that by the time you are an openly gay man, you probably don't give a care about proving your manhood and so may be more open to playing with cross dressing on Halloween and that sort of thing.

2 - CDing like little girls. Never done it because for me it has uncomfortable connotations that others ha e already commented on here. Having said that, I would have to admit there is a certain appeal to it in that the typical little girl dress most of us envision would be a very pretty and feminine thing. I am also drawn to wedding dresses and that sort of thing for the same reason - they are kind of "THE" ultimate in feminine attire.
There is also a part of me that feels like I got screwed outta being a little girl, and it wasn't fair, and I want it back! lol

3 - CDing without makeup? Don't get that one myself. For me, and based on your comments I assume you as well, I want to appear, be treated, and accepted as a woman. Apparently there are guys that honestly just like wearing pretty clothes, and feel no need or desire to present as female. Just to be clear, I am NOT slamming these guys. When I go out dressed, baring my getting involved in an accident, or arrested for doing something stupid, I have zero concern that I'll be recognized. More or less I am in disguise. The guys that just go out the door wearing a dress and no makeup or hair, have got to have an incredible amount of confidence and courage that puts mine to shame.

[Taffy]

2 - CDing like little girls. Never done it because for me it has uncomfortable connotations that others ha e already commented on here. Having said that, I would have to admit there is a certain appeal to it in that the typical little girl dress most of us envision would be a very pretty and feminine thing. I am also drawn to wedding dresses and that sort of thing for the same reason - they are kind of "THE" ultimate in feminine attire.

While a lot of CDs are drawn to wedding dresses, most LGs would rather have a flower girl dress. After all, the flower girl is the only member of the wedding party who is permitted to outdress the bride, because she is not considered to be in competition with the bride for the groom...

[Christa]

(OTOH, Christa could probably address this point better than I, but it does also seem like in the gay communities it's not very acceptable to admit one is crossdressing for more than just "drag." The drag queens I know often have trouble dating if it's perceived they're doing for more than just a stage act.)

I think that's a fair observation. We "gays" love our drag queens, but in my experience gay men can get pretty uncomfortable when it comes to crossdressers and transexuals.

My theory is that as gay men, we spend a lot of energy trying to be masculine possibly to alleviate internal homophobia, to "blend in", or to help others feel comfortable around us. So any expression of real femininity can be met with repulsion... as if we're somehow traitors to the gay community. Add in femininity under a sexual context, and the problem is compounded exponentially.

While dealing with gay issues has certainly helped me deal with CD issues, it isn't automatically easier to a CD if you're gay. Being a gay crossdresser can be just as difficult as being a straight crossdresser. At the end of the day, it's tricky for all of us to find love and acceptance within ourselves and from others as a crossdresser.

[Lovely Rita]

I might seem like some sort of "know it all" to some folks here, but there are a lotta things, concerning CD that puzzle the hell out of me. I suppose those mysteries are what drive me to learn more and more.---Things i dont understand bug the crap outa me.

Here is a short list of my favorite CD "mysteries"

1. Why do a lotta GAY people seem to be into CDing? Transsexuals not withstanding, one would think that gay guys would be the LEAST likely persons to CD---dressing up like "yucky" women and girly stuff.---Perhaps its only an "illusion" that gays are especially prone to CDing, but that does not make any sense to me.

2. CDing like "Little girls".? Little girls are not sexually attractive (unless one is a pedophile) but MOST important they werar no makeup, have no boobs and dont wear high heels or other sexy clothing---none of the "good" CD stuff. I aint figguered this one out either--unless its a play on the "ultimate vulnerability or helplessness of little girls. I dont mean to be insulting here---I'm cool with everyones personal variations, it just that I dont understand some of them.

3. CDing without makeup? This is likely a less complex "mystery", but in my opinion, a guy somehow seems to be holding onto a part of his male identity is he does not also "cover" his face and change that into its female aspect too.

Im sure I can think of a few more things that puzzle me, but these will do for now.---- Do you have any personal CD mysyeries too? or Any comments that may be of help?

I was not aware that Gays were into cding. I guess it is their perogative.

Without makeup, sounds like a pretty secure cd. Maybe tired of the makeup and has become more like woman. Some woman just put on lipstick

I love anklets and girlie stuff because I did not get enough as a child, maybe.

brgds