CD'ing and Drag Queens

[Vallari]

As many of you know crossdressers and drag queens (MTF in this case) dress for different reasons. When out and about, who usually gets referred to as being in drag, instead of en-femme or just cross-dressed? I get this a bunch from my GF's, who usually refer to me going out in-drag somewhere's instead of just being as a girl or enfemme or whatever. I tell them there are differences between the two, and I also state that I'm a CD. This doesn't bug me or anything, Im just curious if others get this a bunch while en-femme. Or am I just missing something here?

[Vickie-CD]

Rachel, I work a lot of drag shows, so the term drag queen does not bother me. But as you correctly said, people dress for different reasons. In my case, the Vickie on stage is an act and a job, not at all like the Vickie off-stage, who is being her true self, and also a lot more shy and a bit withdrawn, unlike the stage version.
Love to All,
Vickie

[DonnaT]

Being referred to as "out in drag" is the same as "being enfemme". Neither mean you are a drag queen, which as Vickie states, is used for someone working a show, but also used for flambouyant transvestites.

[LindaTS]

Guess I've been lucky as no one has ever refered to me as being in drag. If it ever happens though, I'd try to set things striaght in their minds. A little public education never hurts girls like us.

[lizbendalin]

My two cents here. Though I am a CD, I know a lot of DQ's. There are definite differences between us as to the reasons that we dress. That said, I think that it's just a matter of language. We may not be drag queens, but we are definitely in drag. I think Rupaul said it best, "We are all born naked, everything we put on after that is drag." If you think about it it's true. Everything you wear, whether in boy-mode or girl-mode is intended to present a certain image of who you are, or desire to be seen as. I can fully relate to the desire to not be seen as a drag queen, as you are not performing (or are you, and the audience is different? - deep thought), and I think it's important to point out the differences between a CD and a DQ. But I think we also need to be honest and admit that we all do drag, and we would all love to be treated like a queen from time to time.

[Allison Vamp]

can't we all just get along. I'm not a drag queen, but i definetely dress in drag.

[Fallen Angel]

well going out as drag to local gay bars you become a divia thats what i am, im straight i go with a room mate(female) thats srait to on othe forums weve talked about this the women realy dont talk to much at you or if all the men mostly the ones on the fem side are the most friendly and there like one of the girls any how and as you step into the unkown side of that world your there as color or divia it breaks things up for the mix and most of the time your always welcome back i as well do my gothic tones as an act its my signiture with the locals who know me.a nitch if thats what you want to call it. and i have fun i guess dragg gueens are copy cats bett middlers,barbra stisands, ect. but they do it with style and flare!! cds are to me a little more conservitive on there style of dress more of what we would rather see in a female (you girls do it well) and i guess theres ones like me divias. but in either case we look so good how can we be real qote from wong fu great movie

[Julie]

The Ist link has quite a bit of info on Drag and the second link has pictures of some well known Queens from the clubs.


http://www.vickiecollins.com/draglinks.html

http://www.vickirene.net/sigssg000.htm

JJ

[Vickie-CD]

In the clubs you do have those that try to imitate stars, you have those that are flamboyent as they can get, then you have those that work as hard as they can to be passable and individual. Much like here, everyon is individual. The club girls are from one extream to the other. Drag queens are as diversified as everyone here
Love
Vickie

[Fallen Angel]

i agree with you vickie, what are you going as. queen ,divia, ladies ect, and you also have to look at where the comments are coming from. sherrie did you ever think that you may be enturing on ground that has been ruled by some of those people and your a threat to them? and it does happen! are you there for you self? or to please others i thought it was for your self? dont let the little thongs get you upset some of us have been there trust me when your the new girl in town they have to talk good bad or other.if you feel good about your self the rest will follow i have faith in you and so do others here on this forum!! every place has a click even here and some one will take you under there wing and help you thru

[Vickie-CD]

I just go as a "girl", that is sort of my comfort zone.
Love,
Vickie

[Jen_TGCD]

Some definitions... for those that may be a bit lost on all this terminology...

DRAG = DRessed As a Girl Originally a term from theater productions where men would play the parts of women.

Drag Queen = Generally a Gay male that dresses as a woman to perform or entertain in a stage production. (Drag Show) Some dress only on stage while others are Transgender or Transexual. Some live full-time as a female while others dress occasionally (CD) or do not have any interest in dressing except for stage work.

Queen = As used in the Gay Community... An effeminate male or those that do not present themselves in a "totally" masculine image. Some use the term for all Gay males... regardless of demeanor.

Probably, the main reason "Straight" CDs do not like the Drag Queen (DQ) label is because they will be perceived to be "Gay" instead of a "Straight CD". This is a Big Issue with most of the TG Community.

Now... for a little Gay Bar 101 !!!

The male Gay Community is a very diversified group and generally have very specific qualifications on who they associate with and prefer as a partner. The common thread is that most want to be perceived as "MEN"... not effeminate or "girly". Their Big Issue is that they are men... not men that want to be women.

This is the big split (with a lot of controversy from both sides) between the Gays/Lesbians and the Transgendered (CDs, TVs, TS, etc.). The Gays (mostly) do not want the association with Crossdressers and the Crossdressers do not want to be associated with Gays. However, because CDs do not have many places where they can go socially, they frequent the Gay bars. Although they generally tolerate each other, they rarely tend to mix socially. The Gay men want to associate with other Gay men!

BiSexuals are kind of in the middle there somewhere... especially Bi CDs. Again, because of preference or "exclusivity", Gay men do not generally want to associate with BiSexuals. Plus, they do not want to associate with CDs!!!

Drag Queens, too, are in a group all their own and have their own specialized issues. They are Gay and generally want to associate with other Gay men but Gay men do not generally want to associate with DQs or effeminate men. So they are marginalized even within their own Community. (I have been to Drag Shows and have seen Gay men applauding wildly and having a good time during the show but those same Gay men actually turn their backs to the performers when they are in male mode after the show. There is a stigma attached to DQs and even talking to them is not good for the Gay males "macho" image. Strange...but true!)

So... you have all that bias and bigotry going on in one place. Is it a wonder that there is some "gossip" going on??? And in smaller clubs, it's even worse. Is this much different from "straight" clubs??? Not really... again, especially in the smaller clubs.

In response to Sherri's posts (#6 and #9)... I feel badly for your experience but understand the dynamics that are going on in the club. DQs are esthetically more pleasing to view mainly because of the glamorous and over-the-top image they project but I doubt if they are free from the gossip, either. If you went to a Cowboy bar dressed in a suit and tie, the regulars would probably tolerate your presence but you know that they are going to be talking about that dude in the monkey suit. If you went into a Biker bar... well, better if you didn't go at all... never mind... bad example. If you are having fun... just ignore the gossip.

Regarding Rachel's original post... "Drag" is a more common term, these days, than crossdressing. I don't think that those outside of CD Community really think about it that much... they use terms that they hear on television or in the movies. One of the oldest and a very popular website is called "DRAAG" and that is run by a woman that does transformation make-overs and is also the wife of a crossdresser. I know it's annoying but just try to let all those you have contact with know what the "politically correct" terminology is!!! Everybody wants to be PC, right?

[miss_x_elvira]

it really annoys me when common folk who know nothing about and don't understand crossdressing call it drag. Some one in "drag" is a gay male dressed up for stage or to put on a show. Us straight males who like dressing in female clothes are crossdressers, yet you can't get people to understand that cause theres this assumption that crossdressers are gay. I blame the media, movies and TV especially, for this misconception

even my parents thought i was gay just cause i crossdress...ahhhhhhhhhhhhh..!

[Vickie-CD]

it really annoys me when common folk who know nothing about and don't understand crossdressing call it drag. Some one in "drag" is a gay male dressed up for stage or to put on a show. Us straight males who like dressing in female clothes are crossdressers, yet you can't get people to understand that cause theres this assumption that crossdressers are gay. I blame the media, movies and TV especially, for this misconception

even my parents thought i was gay just cause i crossdress...ahhhhhhhhhhhhh..!

I agree 100 per-cent. I dress for different reasons than the reasons I perform. The TV talk-shows seem to locate the most outlandish and most vocal queens to appear on there show, not only does this give x-dressers "that" stereotype, it also does not help the other performing queens at all that are nothing like what is being represented on the tube. Personaly, I think Maury Povich has a fetish for queens, He has just done to many shows with them. Hmmmmmm, makes you wonder.
Love,
Vickie

[Allison Vamp]

Drag - Of, relating to, or being a person wearing clothing characteristic of the opposite sex

see, we all dress in drag. it doesn't mean you're a flamingly gay drag queen, and if you are, more power to you. i'm going to crossdress and i'm going to dress in drag means exactly the same thing.

[Wendy me]

a drag queen??????????????no but sometimes i can feel like a prencess

[Georgette]

a drag queen??????????????no but sometimes i can feel like a prencess

Good morning Wendy, yes sometimes I feel like that too, but it will never happen, SIGH

[Wendy me]

good morning girl freind one can dream

[fauve]

In the clubs you do have those that try to imitate stars, you have those that are flamboyent as they can get, then you have those that work as hard as they can to be passable and individual. Much like here, everyon is individual. The club girls are from one extream to the other. Drag queens are as diversified as everyone here
Love
Vickie

Vickie, do you have any pictures of you on stage? or recent?
I love your look and we're close in age so I'm curious...

[Amelie]

I have a suggestion Sherri, don't go to gay clubs and you won't get a negative response. What I'm saying is, if someone is a hetro CD, then go to Hetro clubs. I don't understand why a hetro CD would go to a gay club in the first place. If life is so bad for hetro CDs in the gay clubs, then go to the hetro clubs, I'm sure you're fellow hetros will welcome you with open arms.

[IAMDONNA]

Oh Sherri, I think Amalie my have been into some serious sarcassm.
I have gone to Alternative Clubs(Gay Bars) and I suppose and while I am sure I have been the topic of some conversation, SO WHAT. I am passable to a point in spite of my age. I have entered a drag beauty contest and almost won. My problem was not that I didn't look good but that I wasn't flamboyant enough because the B.... that won didn't even look like a girl. Let me sheath my claws again. OOO!
Anyway at my age one should be somewhat conservative, but I always have the desire to show a little leg once in a while and I have drawn a few whistles. Then again when in guy mode I have always dressed in a tasteful but colorful manner, perhaps even more flambouyant than in fem.
Anyway to all, BE WHO YOU ARE, BE BEAUTIFUL IN YOUR OWN WAY.

Hugs to all
Donna

[Sweet Susan]

Well, as Herman Melville put it, "A drag queen is as a drag queen does."

[Vickie-CD]

Vickie, do you have any pictures of you on stage? or recent?
I love your look and we're close in age so I'm curious...

Yes, I have many. I will dig around and post a few.
Love to All,
Vickie

[Vickie-CD]

Amelie, am I correct in my impression that you're being sarcastic?

Sherrie, it is quite apparent that your mind is made up on the subject, but thats OK, everone has there own personal feelings pertaining to any given subject. What is embarrising to you, is natural and brings pleasure to others. What is natural and fun to you, may just embarass others. No-one can please all, but we can be nice and accept those for what they are as long as they are not hurting anyone.
Love,
Vickie

[sherri]

Vickie, I honestly have no idea what precisely you are referring to, or what you are actually saying, really, even after I've read your post several times.

But you know what? I have a low tolerance for controversy and self-serving bias, so in the interest of ... of .... well I'm not sure of what, I have removed my posts in this thread. Forget I said anything. Believe what you want, do what you want. Let's all have a cheer for the good old status quo. (Damn, where are the pom-poms when you really need 'em?)

Peace, y'all.