What is accpetance? Open to everyone.

[dancinginthedark]

This is open to everyone. MTF/FTM/GG/TS/GenderQueer whatever label society has tacked onto you please feel free to answer. The number of threads about folks losing or leaving loved ones over dressing/TG issues has me wondering....

1) What is acceptance to you? And is acceptance a one time thing or a process or series of steps?

2) Is there room for compromise and still see it as acceptance?

3) How long are you willing to wait for your partner to get to that point? (Acceptance)

Thanks for taking the time to think about and share your thoughts. Even when we don't agree I value your opinion and the chance to learn more.

I will be posting my own thoughts after I have done some heavy editing (I tend towards wordiness)

Lets remember to play nicely kids we are all on the same side. This is a support site and for many (including myself) it "is" our extended family.

dancin

PS~ There is a storm front moving in here and I may be unable to get back on here until late today/tomorrow depending on weather. Please know I am not ignoring the thread and will be back as soon as weather conditions permit.

[JoAnnDallas]

1) What is acceptance to you? And is acceptance a one time thing or a process or series of steps?

Be allowed to dress casual once a week and fully for Tri-Ess events/meetings

2) Is there room for compromise and still see it as acceptance?

Yes

3) How long are you willing to wait for your partner to get to that point? (Acceptance)

As long as it takes.

[marie354]

What is acceptance to you? And is acceptance a one time thing or a process or series of steps?

For me I don't see it as steps, but rather an ongoing process of give & take that is agreed uppon that can change as moods or times change.
... Hey hun, can you change and just be Sam for a while, There's some things that we need to do today.
... Sure. What do you need to be done?

2) Is there room for compromise and still see it as acceptance?

There is always room for a compromise. I would accept whatever she wants.
What kind of relationship would it be with out compromise & acceptance. This doesn't apply only to CDing.

3) How long are you willing to wait for your partner to get to that point? (Acceptance)

To the ends of the universe. (If necessary.)
Of cource, my SO is accepting... To a point. And if that line should move either way, I'd respect her. I'm happy when she's happy.

[Kimberley]

I just finished writing this one for well, let's just say another project.
**********************
What is this thing self acceptance? I hear about it but I don't know what it is. How do I get it? Can I go shopping and buy it?

Okay, let's just go to the beginning and look back at the terrible trio of Guilt Shame and Fear. Remember those? Of course you do, you still live with them. That is why you are still hiding too.

Wait a minute here Kimberley, I am supposed to stay in the closet right?

I didn't say that. I said think twice before coming out, but even in the closet you can have some degree of self acceptance.

The first thing you have to learn is that you are not a bad person because you cross dress. You are a good person. You have compassion, sincerity, honesty (about everything but your little secret), caring and a host of other admirable qualities. You are devoted to your partner and your family and would do anything to protect them. All this and more but still, you think you are not worthy. Think again.

You need to learn to love yourself first. You need to KNOW you are all these good things. If you cant accept those good parts of you then you will never be able to believe you are worthy of the love of others, and in the end, that is what this is all about isn't it? Try making a list of your good qualities and put an example with each one. Then on another page list your not so good qualities and put an example of each one. My bet is that the good list is not only longer but it was much easier to write.

Now do the same thing only do it from the point of view of someone else looking at you. What do they see? Do they see those good things, the bad things or both? This isn't easy and if you think it is, you are probably lying to yourself. Maybe you can ask your partner to do one for you as well.

Okay so which list is the longer one? The good one right? You need to remind yourself of all those good qualities as often as possible. These are the things that build self esteem and without that you will never ever come to self acceptance. You need to remind yourself because you need to quit hiding them. You need for others to see all these things. You need to be able to laugh at yourself and your own little idiosyncrasies instead of putting yourself down.

Now it is time to break the cycle of Guilt Shame and Fear. Quit hiding! You have value as a human being and that is what you are first; a human being. Yes, you crossdress but that isn't what defines you. It is all those other qualities that people see that define you. Whether you are out of the closet or not, people will still see you more for who you are rather than what you do and cross dress is what you do. Those who define you as a cross dresser before a human being have it all wrong and probably shouldn't be in your life in the first place, and yes that includes a partner. We all make bad choices, it is human nature and one of the reasons we have a conscience. You need to be able to humbly accept praise and passionately decry injustice, not sit on the fence. In other words, you have to take a stand and be proud of that. I am not suggesting you go looking for causes or stand on rooftops, just be yourself, extraverted or introverted makes no difference.

It isn't easy taking a stance because you really are putting yourself out there but if you can do this the bucket for self esteem will begin to fill up. This will break that cycle of Guilt, Shame and Fear at least in part. Still there is this nagging little thing, this dirty little secret.... Well you don't get away with leaving that one alone.

You need to acknowledge that you are transgendered to whatever degree. There is no way around this one. You have to know that it is okay to be transgendered because it is who you are. You have to accept that child inside as a part of you and help him or her grow up to be a responsible adult. Remember, you have kept him or her under wraps for years, or even decades and growth hasn't been possible. This might mean putting yourself out on a limb and having to come out or it may mean just simply saying, "I love you." In any event there is no method to do this and this is the hardest part of self acceptance because you have to make peace with you. You have to let that child grow up and become a part of you. That child is worthy of love because s/he is a very central part of you and who you are. Go back to that list and look it over again. Is there anything there that this child isn't? Of course not. S/he is you and you are s/he. Your problem is that you have kept all this separate and it has been driving you around the bend for most of your life. Getting through this is absolutely the most difficult part of self acceptance and you will shed a lot of tears but the one thing you cant do is rationalize any of it. Try and you are lying to yourself.

Any lights go on yet? My bet is that they are blinding about now. But we aren't finished just yet.

Now it is time to make some decisions, hard decisions but they are yours to make and yours alone. There are two choices, in the closet or out. There is none of this one foot in and one foot out now. If you think you can play dress up and go clubbing and leave your partner at home completely in the dark you are kidding yourself and you haven't learned a thing. If you are in the closet it has to be for the right reasons but YOU HAVE TO BE TOTALLY AT EASE WITH THAT DECISION! If you step out you have to be fully prepared for the that decision as well. In either event you are not only prepared for, but willing to accept the consequences of your decisions and actions. There is no middle ground on this one. If you cant honestly say this then you need to go back to the beginning and start over. If you can;

Welcome to a brand new world!

You have made it!

Lots of hugs and love.

Kimberley

[Brianna Lovely]

Although I don't have a SO, I also don't have much time to waste. My opinions may seem rather harsh, to some of you, but I have to live in my own reality.

"1) What is acceptance to you? And is acceptance a one time thing or a process or series of steps?"

To me, it's accepting someone, for who and what they are, including all their secrets and faults. Acceptance is now. You may expand your personal knowledge, about your SO, but acceptance is in the moment.

"2) Is there room for compromise and still see it as acceptance?"

The number of gurls on this forum, who have lists of things they're not allowed to do, longer than their arms, is ridiculous. I don't see how compromise and acceptance can be used in the same sentence.

To me, that's like saying, "I accept you as a black person, but only if you're brown." That's not acceptance.


3) How long are you willing to wait for your partner to get to that point? (Acceptance)


Unlike many of the gurls here, I don't have ten to forty years to spare, so I'm going to say that I have no time to wait for someone to make up their mind.

[Michelle Ellis]

Great post Mae, Kimberly...

I have no partner, only my family, but this post couldn't have come at a better time, thanks.

1. acceptance has been a gradual series of small steps for me. and honestly I have doubts that I'll ever be able to *fully* accept myself. I've been thru the guilt-shame-fear cycle my whole life, and I think I can say only fear still has it's nasty grip on me. Guilt and shame, I've done those to a point that they're simply a non-factor.

2. compromise? I have no one to compromise for, other than my ugly male self, and he can go to hell...

3. willing to wait? well I'd have to substitute SO for a family member. I'd be willing to wait for acceptance from them until the end of time, I don't think I could do anything else.

M

[KimberlyS]

Dancin, this is a great topic. I think "Acceptance" is something different to everyone. And IMHO many of us push too hard for what "Full Acceptance" is to us instead of accepting the Acceptance that they can give. And for some wife's/SO's the only acceptance they can give is some type of minimum tolerance. I was luck in that when things hit the fan and my wife and I were kinda forced to work on things, my wife asked me what I wanted from her. After I thought about it I gave her a two part answer below.

1) What is acceptance to you? And is acceptance a one time thing or a process or series of steps?

a: At a minimum, I wanted my wife to accept that I was a CDer and this part of me was not going to go away. At a minimum I wanted her to accept that I was a CDer that and tolerate me CD at times. I would not push it in her face and keep it out of sight. It would be my thing.
b: The ultimate would be for CDing to be integrated someway into our lives. Just like every else in our lives, much of what we did was as a couple, but we also had some things we did separately.
c: I expected the final result to be something somewhere in the middle that worked for both of us. And I had no idea where that would be.

2) Is there room for compromise and still see it as acceptance?

Life in general is compromise and choices. And a relationship and marriage is even more compromises and choices. I expect my CDing to be just like everything to be a constant compromise and choices. As life changes constantly. We must constantly make compromises and choices. If you can find away around this and can always have everything you want your way please let us all know.

We hear so often with people going through divorce that they just grew apart. That is not true. They each made compromises and choices that took them in separate paths instead of down the same path. Too many "Me" compromises and choices and not enough for the "Us".

3) How long are you willing to wait for your partner to get to that point? (Acceptance)

For my minimum acceptance I waited for over a year. How long I would have waited I do not know. That was a year of no CDing (actually just a bit to get me by). The change came when my wife was looking for more compromise from me. I looked at her and said, I have nothing more to compromise other than not being a CDer and we both know that I am. I have not been CDing. What more can I compromise. And I said we both knew how well me not CDing went. It just made me more stressed and want to do it more and more which lead up to the point of the blowup.

Since that point, tolerance and acceptance has been a changing thing. My wife has learned I am a better person if I do get time to CD. We work together to get me time to CD. Some things have worked, some have not. I would currently say my wife is at a tolerating acceptance with some involvement. But she still wishes that I did not need to have a feminine look at times and a need to get out of the house in a feminine presentation. But in working through the CDing issues and other issues we now have a better relationship than we ever have.

KimberlyS-CD
Joe in a skirt

[Casey Morgan]

I don't have an SO (and after reading my answers I'm sure some will be thinking "gee, I wonder why, dumba##") so my answers are probably going to be different than those who do. And I know who I am going into the relationship, which probably makes a difference.

1) I have two types of acceptance: what I need (a hard limit) and what I'd like (a soft limit). The "what I need" acceptance is for her to know in her heart and not just in her head that irrespective of what I may look like, I'm not a man and can't be. (I know, I've tried, much to my detriment.) Part of that acceptance is understanding that I need to be able to show that, too.

The "what I'd like" acceptance is to let me be me in the less important/unimportant things. How I dress, purse or wallet, going to events, things like that.

1A) I feel acceptance is a process. Whether it's yourself or someone else you're trying to accept, it's not going to happen all at once, and sometimes you're fine with things and sometimes you're not.

2) For "what I need", compromise isn't quite acceptance. For "what I'd like", absolutely there's room for compromise and it's still acceptance. "What I need" acceptance IS acceptance. That's when she accepts me. Anything beyond that is accepting things.

3) For "what I need" acceptance, I'm willing to wait until either she accepts that she just can't give me that acceptance, or until we realize this just isn't working. We need to be fair to ourselves, after all. For "what I'd like" I'm willing to wait forever.

[Tamera]

What is acceptance?

Acceptance for me is knowing that this is a free country and one can do what he/she wants to.

But one must also realize that the other person has freedom of speech. And that means to call you whatever they want, but touching you is against your civil rights.

Interesting Thread with many different roads to choose.
It will prove interesting.
Love,
Tamera

[Sierra Evon]

To it means just not having one civil rights trampled upon ,and not be quitely descriminated against in any way or form , like this society does alot , very deep subject matter , great posts on this thread !!!!!!!!,

[PaulaJaneThomas]

1) What is acceptance to you?

It's about people accepting my TGism as being part of me just as the colour of my eyes and my character are. It's not about being liked.

And is acceptance a one time thing or a process or series of steps?

It may take some people time to get there. Some will never accept.

2) Is there room for compromise and still see it as acceptance?

There can be no compromises. Compromise is not acceptance.

[Nigella]

1) What is acceptance to you? And is acceptance a one time thing or a process or series of steps?

Sandra saying yes she would marry me and I would have waited so I guess it would have been a series of steps...

... but in the TG sense, I guess it would have to be the opportunity to dress occasionally (with her blessing) but also to understand her need to have her "man" around. That is academical for us though.

2) Is there room for compromise and still see it as acceptance?

Without compromise there would be no acceptance, you need to be able to accept the view of others, they are just as valid as your own

3) How long are you willing to wait for your partner to get to that point? (Acceptance)

Sandra is at that point, however, I would have waited until hell froze over if it meant losing her.

[Marcie Sexton]

Very well put Joann...need I say more

[amanda barber]

1) What is acceptance to you? And is acceptance a one time thing or a process or series of steps?

2) Is there room for compromise and still see it as acceptance?

3) How long are you willing to wait for your partner to get to that point? (Acceptance)

1. accepting someone for who they are, period.
2. absolutly not. Compromise in acceptance leads to bigotry and control. In other words compromise leads one person to think they have the right to allow certain aspects of a person and dissallow other aspects. Crossdresser, Gay, Jewish, Asian, Hispanic, what part of any of them is "OK" and what parts are not "OK"?
3. today.

[bredalee25]

To me acceptance means that you accept me for me. That means seeing me in a skirt and blouse would be just as alright as seeing me in a tee shirt and pants. It also means letting my fem side be free to express my oppinions. Hope i answered your question.


ttfn

[Kelsy]

[SIZE="3"]

I only know what acceptance is not 'tolerance" Tolerance is allowance of the behavior at arms length. Conditional acceptance is when someone welcomes the behavior to the limits of their comfort zone. Those boundaries can fluctuate wildly depending on the individuals. and a balance is struck with each person allowing the other a certain amount of control. Unconditional acceptance is just that. no conditions. unconditional love.

Jennifer [/SIZE]

[Marla S]

1) What is acceptance to you? And is acceptance a one time thing or a process or series of steps?

Acceptance in general is "Live and let live".
Not everybody is expected to be excited.

On a personal level acceptance includes respectfulness.

2) Is there room for compromise and still see it as acceptance?

Limited. To an extend model railroading can be accepted if you are not into it yourself.

3) How long are you willing to wait for your partner to get to that point? (Acceptance)

If there is potential for acceptance (open mind) can and should be realizable quite soon, I think. If that isn't there, no waiting (theoretically).
Overcoming provisos, getting used to it, finding a suitable way (both SO and CD), maybe even to learn to like it will need some time. But that's not waiting, that's a developement. As long as it evolves, it should be ok.

[Satrana]

1. Acceptance is when your partner sees no difference in you no matter what clothes you are wearing. It is when they recognize you as a person and do not judge you on your appearance that acceptance has been reached. Acceptance is when your partner does not place conditions upon crossdressing which are designed to inhibit your natural expression beyond common sense conditions such as public outings.

Acceptance is not something which is reachable immediately because the social conditioning against men exhibiting femininity is strong. But I would always hope to see a continuous improvement in my partner towards acceptance.

2. As others have stated compromise and acceptance are not compatible. Compromise indicates a level of tolerance on the part of the partner, not true acceptance. And when a crossdresser does agree to a compromise, it has to be one which he genuinely believes in and is happy to agree to, not a compromise he is forced to accept because he feels the relationship could end otherwise. Compromises need to be sensible and liveable otherwise they are certain to be broken later on.

3. The time for a partner to reach acceptance is not important in so far as the partner is genuinely trying to understand the issues and eliminate her prejudices. If the crossdresser sees continuous progress then this is a clear sign of commitment and love from his partner and he should support her fully. If on the other hand his partner is not making any progress, refuses to talk about it, refuses to learn about it etc then her commitment is questionable and he needs to think about if he is willing to spend years/decades of his life with a woman who rejects and is repulsed by who he is.

[JeanneF]

Well, I'm not married, but I am currently in a relationship with a really great girl who is accepting and (so far) rather enthusiastic about the whole thing. I'm a firm believer in full disclosure before the relationship turns long-term, and so far with this one it's working.

1) What is acceptance to you? And is acceptance a one time thing or a process or series of steps?

The realization that this is something that is a part of me, and is not going to go away.

2) Is there room for compromise and still see it as acceptance?

Honestly, I don't think so. This issue is one that is such a huge aspect of a person's personality that unless the SO is willing to accept it, the relationship isn't going to work.

3) How long are you willing to wait for your partner to get to that point? (Acceptance)

I'm not going to ever enter another relationship where this isn't known upfront, so it's a non-issue. I'd rather be single than be in a relationship where I have to hide who I am.

[Kate Simmons]

To me acceptance is accepting someone as the person they are, regardless of outside appearance. Compromise is okay, as long as the core self is not compromised. I'm patient and am willing to wait to be accepted, for a lifetime if necessary.

[noname]

True acceptance...

True acceptace is when I can dress how I please in the same way a GG does. For a GG does not fear running into friends and be seen wearing pants. Nor does she worry about what people on the job, should they find out she did wear them. For she is free from harassement and discrimination in public. She has no worries, dress, skirt, halter top or dress shirt, for she will always be accepted by everyone. Her friends will not care, her family will not care, so much so her libery is taken for granted and she goes unaware of her freedoms.

When I reach that point, I have acceptant. I'll probably never get in my life time. But for the most part I wear what I want, and I have my dignity, and no one can that from me.

[GypsyKaren]

1) What is acceptance to you? And is acceptance a one time thing or a process or series of steps?

Acceptance to me is very simple, I want and expect to be seen and treated as a person, nothing more, but nothing less...I'll take that any way they want to give it.

2) Is there room for compromise and still see it as acceptance?

When I first came out to the world, I bent over way backwards to accomodate people, giving plenty of time for everyone to deal with it. This included me drabbing it for those still "uncomfortable" with me, even though this made me uncomfortable, which I won't do anymore, which leads us to...

3) How long are you willing to wait for your partner to get to that point? (Acceptance)

That was solved long ago with Kat, the rest of the world is playing catch up. I feel I've given plenty of time now, so I've stopped worrying about it. If people can't deal with me, I just move on without them in my life anymore. I figure I'm not a monster, just that person, so if family or friends don't want me in their life anymore, so be it, it's their decision, not mine. I've always taken people at face value, so good bye to them if they can't do the same for me too.

Karen

[Suzie S.]

Hi Dancin'!

1. To me acceptance is to acknowledge that Suzie is an integral part of who I am. My wife does. It is also to allow Suzie to 'come out of the dark' when she might like to hang out now and then. My wife does. It is also to provide a shoulder for Suzie to lean on, or cry on, or and open mind/ears when she needs to talk. My wife does that too.

It is not a one time thing. Things don't happen overnight, some things may take years. Some may not happen at all. The life that my wife and I share is paramount. Our needs as husband and wife must come first. Our love, communication, health, finances, and mental well being all come first. We have a wonderful marriage. Suzie has understand the other things come first. My wife and I have reached a point where we are comfortable with where cding stands in our home. It took a lot of time to get to that point, and things are still fluid. Acceptance was not a button that just got pressed.

2. Absolutely. If there is no compromise, where is the healthy relationship? Things change, good and bad. It's just life. We change together, or not at all. Just because my wife may not want to see me dressed on a given day doesn't mean the acceptance has waned. On a day to day basis things may need to be reevaluated.

3. I would wait forever. Fortunately I didn't have to. But there are things that my wife knows that Suzie would like to do, and hasn't done yet. Those things may never happen, and if it doesn't that's OK with me. I know that these things may make my wife uncomfortable, so I don't do them out of respect for her. Yet, I still feel accepted. Thats good enough for me.

Our marriage does not revolve around crossdressing. It is only one piece of the pie! Some of the other slices are larger, and taste even better...

I hope this helps just a little Dancin'.

[Tree GG]

...Our marriage does not revolve around crossdressing. It is only one piece of the pie! Some of the other slices are larger, and taste even better...

2) There you go - priorities and perspective. IMO, compromise is essential in a long term relationship on all issues - not just, but including, crossdressing needs. This is not relinquishing control but respecting the other persons needs as equally as your own.

1) Acceptance can also be equated to resignation by the SO that CDing is here to stay and the choice is made to tolerate (same as accept in this scenario) the activity and learn to live with it. IMO, many CD's can't get over the disappointment that the SO doesn't share the same level of excitement about CDing as they do (if any at all). Yes I can see how that is hurtful, but by harboring resentment and anger, instead of appreciating the SO's right to have different fantasies or interests as well, dangerous seeds are sown. IMO, many CD's are unaccepting of anything less than 100% buy in. (see #2 )

3.) I agree w/ Marla S on this. As long as there is progress - either educational, emotional, social....whatever - then it's not waiting, it's developing. How long do you wait for the pink fog to pass? How long do you wait away from home so they have private time to dress? How often do you share the man of your dreams with the girl of his dreams? As long as it takes. I believe the vow was 'til death do us part, not "'til it isn't convenient."

[marie354]

2) There you go - priorities and perspective. IMO, compromise is essential in a long term relationship on all issues - not just, but including, crossdressing needs. This is not relinquishing control but respecting the other persons needs as equally as your own.

1) Acceptance can also be equated to resignation by the SO that CDing is here to stay and the choice is made to tolerate (same as accept in this scenario) the activity and learn to live with it. IMO, many CD's can't get over the disappointment that the SO doesn't share the same level of excitement about CDing as they do (if any at all). Yes I can see how that is hurtful, but by harboring resentment and anger, instead of appreciating the SO's right to have different fantasies or interests as well, dangerous seeds are sown. IMO, many CD's are unaccepting of anything less than 100% buy in. (see #2 )

3.) I agree w/ Marla S on this. As long as there is progress - either educational, emotional, social....whatever - then it's not waiting, it's developing. How long do you wait for the pink fog to pass? How long do you wait away from home so they have private time to dress? How often do you share the man of your dreams with the girl of his dreams? As long as it takes. I believe the vow was 'til death do us part, not "'til it isn't convenient."

I like the way you think on these things. Very realistic I think.

Especially...
I believe the vow was 'til death do us part, not "[I]'til it isn't convenient."

I glad to see that I'm not the only one that believes that. A lot of women I've known it's just "till they find someone new or better."