Makeover??? She can't even deal with the eyebrows!!!

[ChristineRenee]

Hey ladies,

Well...I didn't even have to approach "Sue" about the possibility of the makeover. Here is part of the conversation we had this morning prior to her leaving for work:

We are in our bedroom after finishing showering and finishing getting dressed. I have my glasses off. "Sue" comes up to me and is staring intensely at my eyebrows...I know instinctively what is coming now:

"Sue" - "Please don't do this again....you look like a FAG!"

Me: - "I like them...they look good...she did a terrific job. Besides, you can't hardly tell when I have my glasses on anyway."

"Sue" - "Yes you can...and I don't want people starting rumors...what's the matter with you anyway?"

Me:- "Eff em...I don't care what people think...I like them!"

'Sue" - (getting ready to leave...she is scowling at me intensely now) "Your impossible!"

She's leaving now totally disgusted...doesn't give me a kiss good-bye, which she always does...

Me: - "Don't I even get a kiss good-bye?"

She doesn't even turn around as she heads out the door to the garage...so I repeat the question.

"Sue" - (she turns around and comes back, still scowling she gives me a quick peck on the lips) -

"DON'T do this again!!" - "Sue" then leaves for work.


A lot more work to be done on the home front here acceptance wise I'm afraid. Well...it was a nice dream anyway...and still one hell of a good day yesterday too!! She can't take that away from me at least!!

Thanks ladies for listening and for all your sound advice. She is still a work in progress for me I'm afraid!


Love,
Chrissie

[June]

Christine:

So sorry to hear you're having a rough time. Perhaps you could thicken up the look of the brows by using an eyebrow pencil that's close to your hair color? Also you could meet "Sue" halfway by admitting they're plucked too severely and that next time you'll ask them not to make the eyebrows as thin. I know how you feel, it's a rough game of compromises unfortunately.

<<hugggs>> June

[Wendy me]

i told you .......you allready knew the answer ......hay girlfreind just a question ..........
any one ever tell abought like well them thingeys ,.............like well .....small steps?????????/

[LindaTS]

Christine, I don't know if this will help but when I started plucking my eyebrows I took it very slow so no one even noticed as they changed. This was over a period of a couple of months, maybe longer. Of course wifes notice everything about us. Good luck.

[ChristineRenee]

Christine, I don't know if this will help but when I started plucking my eyebrows I took it very slow so no one even noticed as they changed. This was over a period of a couple of months, maybe longer. Of course wifes notice everything about us. Good luck.

This was not the first time I had gotten my eyebrows done this way Linda. She reacted the same way then too. She is very old school about men being men and women being women...she has totally bought into all the societal thinking and conditioning of this. Maybe when we get to Florida and join Tri-Ess and she is able to meet with other GG's and talk with them, they can have some positive effect on changing this stereotypical way of thinking. It may be that I am too close to the situation here to be able to affect that kind of attitude change in her. Better to know at least what you are still dealing with, though it is somewhat disappointing for me as I had thought she was making some inroads here. Unfortunately for me, and us, she appears to have taken a step back in the understanding/acceptance process of who I really am.


Love,
Chrissie

[Tracie Lynn]

Christine, I am still fairly new here but I have spent a lot of time reading alot of the old posts and can see where you and your wife have crossed great milestones together in your CDing quest and I am sure the you two will get across this one to just give her a little time to get used to them and maybe ask her for some sugestions on what she feels might look better for you and then go from their but remember
"colaberate dont comperamise" by colaberating you will come to an agreement that you both can live with, but if you comperamise then one of you will be giveing in and hurt feelings and resentment will be the result and nothing good can come out of that, from reading your posts it sounds like you have a real special lady their so I am sure you two will be able to work this out together.

[ChristineRenee]

:mad:

Christine, I am still fairly new here but I have spent a lot of time reading alot of the old posts and can see where you and your wife have crossed great milestones together in your CDing quest and I am sure the you two will get across this one to just give her a little time to get used to them and maybe ask her for some sugestions on what she feels might look better for you and then go from their but remember
"colaberate dont comperamise" by colaberating you will come to an agreement that you both can live with, but if you comperamise then one of you will be giveing in and hurt feelings and resentment will be the result and nothing good can come out of that, from reading your posts it sounds like you have a real special lady their so I am sure you two will be able to work this out together.

I understand your point Tracie and the "collaborate don't compromise" comment too. I feel compelled to say some things now which may not go over too well with some of you in the forum here so be advised in advance.

I have been a CD, now TG as well, for 41 years since the age of 12. I have known my wife for 12 years. I was upfront about my being a CD from the beginning...I told her about it when we were still dating. She agreed to marry me knowing this. Even when I realized that I was TG and wanted to go on HRT I made sure she knew about it even though I know she wasn't happy about it, understandibly enough. I guess what I am leading up to is this: how long do I have to keep up this "facade" of projecting an image both to my wife and the general public that I am a REAL MAN, by THEIR definition of the same? I have been playing an actor playing a role for almost all of my life. Is this to go on indefinitely just because my wife can't come to terms with the fact that the man she thought she married is really a woman inside? Have I been totally unreasonable here? I have made every effort since 1993 when we first got together to keep who I really am under wraps so as not to cause her problems either with her career, or her family and friends. But what about me? When am I ever gonna be allowed to be who I really am....ME....CHRISTINE? Why is my wife allowed to define the parameters of just who I will be in the outside world....who gave her that kind of dictatorial authority? I know I didn't. I didn't marry her because I wanted someone to boss me around and make decisions for me 24/7. I lived very capably on my own from the time I was 20 until I married her at 43. I didn't HAVE to get married either. I married her because I fell in love, didn't want to spend the rest of my life alone, and thought I was marrying a very compassionate and good hearted woman who understood what I was all about and was accepting of it. So tell me...what have I done wrong here? Who is the one who is really being hurt and their total existence as a human being being affected here?

It's one thing to be not be accepted for who you are by society...but it's totally another thing to not be accepted by the person in your life that you need, and expect, to have accept you and that is your spouse.

All things considered at this point, I think that if I had known back then in 1993 when we got engaged that her attitude toward me (Christine) was going to be what it is...I probably never would have asked her to marry me. I probably wouldn't have bothered putting us both through this emotional pressure cooker. I'm not sure anymore that collaboration is even possible until she stops denying to herself that I am really a woman inside and not a man. I am comfortable with who and what I am. What I am NOT comfortable at this stage of my life is...after 41 years of "play acting"...to continue to allow both society and HER to define just who and what I am on THEIR terms. Dammit...this is MY LIFE that we are talking about here...NOT THEIRS!

I'm not soliciting responses here necessarily...I just wanted all of you to know how I feel about this right now.

Thanks for letting me vent and rant here.

Love to you all,
Christine

[Sharon]

Christine:
It may have been the shock of seeing the new brows that caused her reaction to be as strong as it was. Give "Sue" the day to think it over and I have a feeling she'll be a little less upset when you see her again.
There may be no need to compromise at all. Let her look at you again with your glasses on, and maybe she'll realize that your brows actually aren't noticeable at all. I also have thin brows and no one has ever noticed them because of my glasses, at least until I pointed them out to them.
Good luck Sweetie!

[Julie York]

Hi Christine. Hope you don't mind my tuppenyworth.

You've got a problem. (Yes, I know you know.) But the problem isn't the eyebrows. The problem is that if you look like "a fag" in public (her words, remember), it means that she is scared that you will embarrass the hell out of her in front of all her friends and relatives by looking like "a fag". The secret will be out about HER Husband!....Which reflects on her. People may start talking about you behind your back and hers. You will drag her out of YOUR secret closet against HER will, and humiliate her. That's what she is scared of. When you step out of your closest, brave as that is, you are going to drag her out too whether she wants it or not.

That's your problem.

The fact that she supposedly accepted who you really are when you married, appears to be not as binding as you first thought. Did she accept that you might want to present as a woman in public? Did she accept that everyone she knows will know she has a TS husband? Did she accept that people might laugh at her because of standing by you?

Just how far do you want to push it before something gives?

I'm not unsympathetic, but I do feel for your wife's dilema. You've got a lot of talking to do from the listening end!

[Priscilla1018]

Hi Christine,

I sincerely hope that you and Sue can work this out together. As you know I just came out to my wife last night; I have no idea what the future will hold for us. She is accepting for now, but I have no idea where the journey I am on will take me or if she will still be with me at the end of my journey.
I think it is going to take a lot more conversation, especially with other GGs in relationships with husbands that are transgender.
I want nothing but the best for you. You have helped me just by being you, the loving, caring lady that you are.

Love and BIG HUG,
Priscilla

[ChristineRenee]

Hi Christine,

I sincerely hope that you and Sue can work this out together. As you know I just came out to my wife last night; I have no idea what the future will hold for us. She is accepting for now, but I have no idea where the journey I am on will take me or if she will still be with me at the end of my journey.
I think it is going to take a lot more conversation, especially with other GGs in relationships with husbands that are transgender.
I want nothing but the best for you. You have helped me just by being you, the loving, caring lady that you are.

Love and BIG HUG,
Priscilla

Thank you Priscilla for the kind words. I don't quite know where things are headed with me and "Sue" either. She really disappointed me today...I felt our relationship took several steps back from where it was just a week or two ago. I think what has happened is that she thought the man she married was on the inside as well as the outside...that the qualities she liked had nothing to do with Christine. Now she has had to come to grips with the realization that it was actually Christine that she fell in love with and I think she is having a hard time coming to terms with that. There may be nothing I can do about that either. Perhaps a GG wife, or wives, could help make her understand it better but I seem to be too close to the situation now.

This morning's set-to made me realize that she still has issues with Christine that she doesn't want to have to deal with. Also, that she wants to control me (Christine) and confine me to the house. It has also made me realize that unless both partner's are together with this, that the CD spouse and the non-CD spouse have conflicting worlds. The non-CD spouse has to be able to be a part of the CDs world on some level or it just doesn't work. You live two completely separate lives under the marital umbrella.

Like I said...we have much dialoging yet to do to see if we can ever get on the same page and wave length with this.

Thanks again for the support and kindness you've shown me Priscilla...and best of luck to you and your wife. I hope that things work out for you both as well.

Love,
Chrissie

[ChristineRenee]

Hi Christine. Hope you don't mind my tuppenyworth.

You've got a problem. (Yes, I know you know.) But the problem isn't the eyebrows. The problem is that if you look like "a fag" in public (her words, remember), it means that she is scared that you will embarrass the hell out of her in front of all her friends and relatives by looking like "a fag". The secret will be out about HER Husband!....Which reflects on her. People may start talking about you behind your back and hers. You will drag her out of YOUR secret closet against HER will, and humiliate her. That's what she is scared of. When you step out of your closest, brave as that is, you are going to drag her out too whether she wants it or not.

That's your problem.

The fact that she supposedly accepted who you really are when you married, appears to be not as binding as you first thought. Did she accept that you might want to present as a woman in public? Did she accept that everyone she knows will know she has a TS husband? Did she accept that people might laugh at her because of standing by you?

Just how far do you want to push it before something gives?

I'm not unsympathetic, but I do feel for your wife's dilema. You've got a lot of talking to do from the listening end!

So what you are saying to me, if I am understanding this correctly, is that my wife calls all the shots on this and that I will continue to project to the general public the image MY WIFE has DEFINED for me so that she will not be embarrassed or humiliated by my "feminine eyebrows." In other words, for her, "Roy" is who I married even if he is an act and it is better for me for people to see my husband as "Roy" totally with no traces of Christine present so that I don't have to deal with the fact that the man I married is actually, in fact, a woman inside. So continue to live the lie, continue to be "Roy" to her and the general public and everything will be just fine. Well...I HAVE done it for 41 years now...so it's not like I don't know HOW to do it is it?

I appreciate that you can see this so clearly from my wife's perspective Julie...I just wish you could see it more clearly from mine. Your answer is the kind of answer I would have expected from another GG wife who can't deal with a CD husband rather than from someone who has also walked in my shoes. She is basically validating everything here about society that we as a community have railed against, and now you are sympathetic to their right to be ignorant and intolerant.

You have a right to your opinion, and I respect that Julie...I'm just a little disappointed that one of my fellow sisters would come out against a sister who is fighting just to be herself in this world. You don't have to agree with me here, but some understanding from my perspective would have been appreciated.


Hugs,
Christine

[Sweet Susan]

Wow! Wow! and more Wows! That was quite a bit of a story there. I undersand how you feel, and I wish you all the luck in the future. I read your tirade, and I agree with almost all of what you said. I'm not sure you were being totally fair. There are some elements that make it appear that your relationship with "Sue" is all about you. On the other hand, you have been upfront. I would say, if you dont mind, perhaps, and I do mean perhaps, it might help if you were willing to not put your wife through any more than you are willing to put yourself through, or anybody else for that matter. That is, if you aren't willing to step out there in the real world as ChristineRenee, then perhaps it isn't fair to expect your wife to be the total and only recipient of your belief that you are a woman on the inside. Just a thought.

[ChristineRenee]

Wow! Wow! and more Wows! That was quite a bit of a story there. I undersand how you feel, and I wish you all the luck in the future. I read your tirade, and I agree with almost all of what you said. I'm not sure you were being totally fair. There are some elements that make it appear that your relationship with "Sue" is all about you. On the other hand, you have been upfront. I would say, if you dont mind, perhaps, and I do mean perhaps, it might help if you were willing to not put your wife through any more than you are willing to put yourself through, or anybody else for that matter. That is, if you aren't willing to step out there in the real world as ChristineRenee, then perhaps it isn't fair to expect your wife to be the total and only recipient of your belief that you are a woman on the inside. Just a thought.

If she can't accept a man who's eyebrows are just thinned out and shaped, how do you think she'll react to me walking around this town as Christine Renee? What happens in Florida when we join Tri-Ess? How is she gonna feel standing next to me dressed as Christine in a room with other CD's that are dressed and their wives? She can't handle a small thing like this, but she is going to be able to handle that just because we don't live in THIS town anymore? Why does she have the right to DEFINE who I am as a person? Answer that for me, and what happens if and when she decides then that she can't accept Christine at all any longer...then what? Do I have any say in my own marriage with respect to who I am anymore?


Christine

[Tristen Cox]

It does sound like you are facing a wall here hun. It may not be one you can climb over, but only time will tell. Prepare for it either way. I wish I could give you a better answer. Just be patient with her no matter what happens. You love her and that should always come first, even if that means Christine has to do some more hiding. I'm sorry things aren't going better for you. You still have us though never forget that.



Love
Tristen

[Fiona K]

I know what you're going throught Christine,
My wife spotted 5 missing stray eyebrow hairs straight away!! But for me just now it is my shaved legs, she just can't deal with that.
Take care
Fiona
xx

[Julie York]

So what you are saying to me, if I am understanding this correctly, is that my wife calls all the shots on this and that I will continue to project to the general public the image MY WIFE has DEFINED for me so that she will not be embarrassed or humiliated by my "feminine eyebrows." In other words, for her, "Roy" is who I married even if he is an act and it is better for me for people to see my husband as "Roy" totally with no traces of Christine present so that I don't have to deal with the fact that the man I married is actually, in fact, a woman inside. So continue to live the lie, continue to be "Roy" to her and the general public and everything will be just fine.

Yes, if you want a wife. That's what I'm reading anyway.

Hey I don't want to make you annoyed Christine. You're a great person and I regard you as a friend. And I'm sorry if what I said could have been said less harshly. I was pointing out the perspective your wife has, in order to just say....Back up a notch and see what the whole situation is because the trauma you are going through is someone else's trauma too.

If you want my sympathy and understanding then you have it. I really wouldn't want to be in your situation. But you don't appear to realise just how critical this is. It isn't just about YOU.

I appreciate that you can see this so clearly from my wife's perspective Julie...I just wish you could see it more clearly from mine. Your answer is the kind of answer I would have expected from another GG wife who can't deal with a CD husband

This is where I said....you have a lot of talking to do. Maybe she CAN'T handle it?

You have a right to your opinion, and I respect that Julie...I'm just a little disappointed that one of my fellow sisters would come out against a sister who is fighting just to be herself in this world. You don't have to agree with me here, but some understanding from my perspective would have been appreciated.


Hugs,
Christine

I understand your perspective. Maybe I am not TS but I really do.

I am simply worried that you don't appreciate that if you persue what YOU want, your wife doesn't appear to want to come along for the ride. She's giving you all the signals and it's frustrating the hell out of you because you can see them and hate them. Everyone else can see the car crash coming but daren't say so, because we all have to be so supportive on the forum etc etc. And yes, (it's a great compliment actually) maybe I am taking the GG point of view.

I really am sorry if this upsets you and I feel for your frustration. You really do have my best wishes in all this. I'll leave you in peace now to the sympathisers who will say all the nice things about how wonderful it is to live by your beliefs.

Sorry again if I annoyed you.

[Tamara Croft]

"Sue" - "Please don't do this again....you look like a FAG!"

Fag?? wtf is that supposed to mean... all fags have eyebrows like yours??? gimme a break!!!

Sounds to me like she isn't coping with you at all. The slightest thing you have done.... and she goes off on one like that??

Ok... tell me something.. when she married you.. did she marry a crossdresser or a transgendered person??
Does she know the difference??
Do you sit down and discuss things or have screaming matches about things??
Does she have someone other than you to talk to about these things??

So many questions to ask you... but I'll ask you bit by bit...

Tamara x

[ChristineRenee]

Yes, if you want a wife. That's what I'm reading anyway.

Hey I don't want to make you annoyed Christine. You're a great person and I regard you as a friend. And I'm sorry if what I said could have been said less harshly. I was pointing out the perspective your wife has, in order to just say....Back up a notch and see what the whole situation is because the trauma you are going through is someone else's trauma too.

If you want my sympathy and understanding then you have it. I really wouldn't want to be in your situation. But you don't appear to realise just how critical this is. It isn't just about YOU.



This is where I said....you have a lot of talking to do. Maybe she CAN'T handle it?



I understand your perspective. Maybe I am not TS but I really do.

I am simply worried that you don't appreciate that if you persue what YOU want, your wife doesn't appear to want to come along for the ride. She's giving you all the signals and it's frustrating the hell out of you because you can see them and hate them. Everyone else can see the car crash coming but daren't say so, because we all have to be so supportive on the forum etc etc. And yes, (it's a great compliment actually) maybe I am taking the GG point of view.

I really am sorry if this upsets you and I feel for your frustration. You really do have my best wishes in all this. I'll leave you in peace now to the sympathisers who will say all the nice things about how wonderful it is to live by your beliefs.

Sorry again if I annoyed you.

First of all, I'm am CD/TG NOT a TS. Let's get that understood right up front, ok?

I don't ever recall asking for the "Sunshine Club" to blow smoke up my ass either. I have been dealing with this with her for almost 12 years now. I have been upfront about this every step of the way. Was I transgendered when we were first together? If I was I wasn't aware of it. When I became aware of it...she was told. I've never kept anything related to my CD/TG condition hidden from her.

I guess I would agree with one point you make and that is that she can't deal with it. That is painfully obvious to me now. So I guess there is no further point in pushing any envelopes here that are going to apparently remain permanently sealed. That is HER choice. We have a wedge now driven between us. Had I known that we would get this far into this marriage with her still not coming to terms with who and what I am, I would never have asked her to marry me. The way I feel right now is that I just wished she would have walked away from it and spared us both this grief. We are both two good people who don't deserve to have to be put through this because we can't come to an understanding of how we can best deal with this
together. The one person I had counted on the most to understand and be by my side with this has thrown it back into my face after almost 12 years as a couple. I hope you can appreciate at least the hurt and disappointment that I feel right now regardless of how you perceive that this should be resolved.

It may all come down in the final analysis, to how willing my wife will be to accept who I am because I cannot change that...but SHE can change her attitude as to how SHE will feel about that. There is not an awful lot of middle ground here. It is essentially about a difference in core beliefs and being true to who you are. Either she eventually, whether she likes it or not, accepts that fact, or she uncategorically rejects it and then we will be beginning the process of going our own way in life.

I don't know any other way out of this at this point. I am so very tired of it all right now.


Love,
Christine

[ChristineRenee]

Fag?? wtf is that supposed to mean... all fags have eyebrows like yours??? gimme a break!!!

Sounds to me like she isn't coping with you at all. The slightest thing you have done.... and she goes off on one like that??

Ok... tell me something.. when she married you.. did she marry a crossdresser or a transgendered person??
Does she know the difference??
Do you sit down and discuss things or have screaming matches about things??
Does she have someone other than you to talk to about these things??

So many questions to ask you... but I'll ask you bit by bit...

Tamara x

Hi Tamara,

I will try to answer your questions for you. I was a CD when she married me but was not aware that I was transgendered. I may HAVE been...but I was not aware of it if I was. I would hope that by this time she would know the difference but right now I'm not sure where her head is at with all of this. We don't have screaming matches, but we do have vast differences in our way of thinking. Saying that I looked like a FAG this morning was probably the most hurtful thing that she has ever said to me since we have been together. All because I got my eyebrows thinned and shaped more femme. This is supposed to be the sign of the apocalypse I guess. Hide the kids all of you concerned parents out there....the guy with the "feminine eyebrows" is coming down the street...to a town NEAR you! Does she have someone else to talk with about this? NO! And that to me has been a long standing problem. I was so hoping that after we make the move to Florida and we join Tri-Ess, that she would have other wives of CD's to talk with and perhaps they can have some effect on her thinking processes. I just don't believe I can reach her anymore...I'm too close to the situation. What this is about in her perspective is being embarrassed by who I really am and how it is going to look to others if they find out. Plus, being the control freak that she is, she wants to almost put it into "my way or the highway" terms here. I don't deal well with threats and ultimatums at all....particularly when it comes down to being told to alter or change something that cannot be altered or changed. I look at who I am very positively...that I am "special"...perhaps even "gifted". My wife sees this as an abnormality, much like the rest of society does. She feels that she is a "normal" human being and I am an abnormal one. Early in our marriage, she even told me that I have a form of mental illness. I don't know whether or not she still feels that strongly about it now, but it does give you some kind of idea of how she thought about the people of our community now doesn't it?

I just don't know where we are going to go from here Tamara. At this point I am just kinda laying low and trying to get a handle on how I feel emotionally and how I am going to handle things once we get settled down in Florida.

I just went from one of my best days in a long time yesterday...to emotionally falling off the mountain today. Time now to assess the damage and mend what needs to be mended. I'm afraid that it's going to be a long climb back.

Thanks for understanding Tamara...I hope I have helped to answer your questions here.

Love,
Chrissie

[Danielle1960]

I would suggest that in this case the battle is less than the war. If you pluck them as you want but while she is not there to watch may be that would relieve the tension. After all as adults we should know that we can't impose our will on another successfully for very long. She understands that and may be she a bit insecure. I must say though that would be a conversation my wife and I would have.
Good luck
Danielle

[Holly]

...I just don't know where we are going to go from here Tamara. At this point I am just kinda laying low and trying to get a handle on how I feel emotionally and how I am going to handle things once we get settled down in Florida.

I just went from one of my best days in a long time yesterday...to emotionally falling off the mountain today. Time now to assess the damage and mend what needs to be mended. I'm afraid that it's going to be a long climb back.

Thanks for understanding Tamara...I hope I have helped to answer your questions here.

Love,
Chrissie

Alright Christine, this is better thinking. The Christine I know and love is not going to give up.

Let's face it. We don't live in a perfect world. Part of the imperfection is that those who we love and trust and rely on sometimes let us down. Truth is we do the same thing to them. Doesn't make it any easier, does it? But our attitude will have a huge impact on the outcome.

Okay, now is not the time to stop talking. Now more than ever the communication lines need to be open and burnin' up! Assess the situation and proceed with what you know to be the right thing.

Christine, at the risk of sounding a little like Julie York, I would ask you to take into consideration some of the things your wife may be going through right now. You are looking forward to your relocation to Florida and, if I read between the lines, the fulfillment of an almost life long dream concerning your being TG. She, at a mnimun will be leaving a career in which she appears to be comfortable to begin a lifestyle that will be foreign to her (and I'm not just talking about life with Christine... the way of life in Florida will be different than it is in Minn.). She will also be giving up a home and friends she has become acccustomed to over the years. PLEASE do not misunderstand and think I am taking her side. I'm just asking you to see some of the things that may be going on in her head right now. It just might help you find a way to begin a dialogue with hre. She's probably quite frightened. And when we are frightened we often will do and say things that we shouldn't. Heck, maybe you should just ask her what it is she's afraid of! Is it the move? Christine? Roy? Herself? But I will guarantee you one thing... it's not the eyebrows.

But no matter what, honey, we love you and want nothing more than to see you and "Sue" happy.

[Tamara Croft]

I was a CD when she married me but was not aware that I was transgendered. I may HAVE been...but I was not aware of it if I was.

Well seeing as this is what you are now, I think this is scaring her and she must feel she is losing the MAN she married.

I would hope that by this time she would know the difference but right now I'm not sure where her head is at with all of this.

How would she know, have you given her leaflets, books, info on the internet, gone through any info with her?? If your not sure where her head is right now, how do you know how she is really feeling??

Saying that I looked like a FAG this morning was probably the most hurtful thing that she has ever said to me since we have been together.

I have to agree, but you have to ask her 'why' she called you that, what's the 'real' reason she said that to you.

All because I got my eyebrows thinned and shaped more femme.

Did you actually ask her if she minds you getting them done more femme? Did you ask her opinion or just went ahead and got them done?

This is supposed to be the sign of the apocalypse I guess. Hide the kids all of you concerned parents out there....the guy with the "feminine eyebrows" is coming down the street...to a town NEAR you!

Stop that!!!

Does she have someone else to talk with about this? NO! And that to me has been a long standing problem.

Why doesn't she have anyone to talk to? Have you told her about forums online? Have you tried getting her to go to a CD/TG meeting in your area?

I was so hoping that after we make the move to Florida and we join Tri-Ess, that she would have other wives of CD's to talk with and perhaps they can have some effect on her thinking processes.

Well that's in the future.... something to discuss at a later date.

I just don't believe I can reach her anymore...I'm too close to the situation. What this is about in her perspective is being embarrassed by who I really am and how it is going to look to others if they find out.

How do you expect her to feel?? over the moon?? she married a man.. now shes scared to death shes losing her man. I don't think embarrasment has anything to do with this in my opinion. If you can't reach her no more... then you need to think about councilling.

Plus, being the control freak that she is, she wants to almost put it into "my way or the highway" terms here. I don't deal well with threats and ultimatums at all....particularly when it comes down to being told to alter or change something that cannot be altered or changed. I look at who I am very positively...that I am "special"...perhaps even "gifted". My wife sees this as an abnormality, much like the rest of society does. She feels that she is a "normal" human being and I am an abnormal one.

Compromise is the word... you have to talk about things.. she can't have it her way or no way, marriage is a 2 way thing, it's about give and take. She married you for better or for worse... not to tell you what you can and can't do.

Early in our marriage, she even told me that I have a form of mental illness. I don't know whether or not she still feels that strongly about it now, but it does give you some kind of idea of how she thought about the people of our community now doesn't it?

It's NOT an illness... is she qualified to tell you that?? If you don't know how she feels, then ask her.

I just don't know where we are going to go from here Tamara. At this point I am just kinda laying low and trying to get a handle on how I feel emotionally and how I am going to handle things once we get settled down in Florida.

One day at a time... don't leap, don't ask too many questions.. talk to her.

I just went from one of my best days in a long time yesterday...to emotionally falling off the mountain today. Time now to assess the damage and mend what needs to be mended. I'm afraid that it's going to be a long climb back.

Don't let one day ruin things, it's like the saying goes... 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Only you can mend this, only you know what is right for you and your marriage. You just have to comunicate with each other and if you can't do that, then you both need to write things down... things you like, things you don't like, things that need to improve etc... works wonders for me when things are going bad. Keep your chin up hun... and don't sit there dwelling on it... start sorting it out.

Tamara x

[ChristineRenee]

Tamara,

Ok...I read it. I will talk about it with you in a private chat.

Love,
Chrissie

[Olivia]

Chrissie, as I've read this thread, one thought kept coming to mind; I could have written much of it myself. So much of what you said echoes the same things I have thought and said to myself and my wife in the last few weeks. In my case, I've been waiting through 28 years of marriage (and 2 years dating before that) for the very same acceptance that you so eloquently described. I'm not blowing smoke either. I've felt like you do for a long time. Just how damn long would it take for her to "get used to it"? Like you too, I made sure she knew that I was a crossdresser. She said she undertood too. Well, you know, I don't think she did. I think she wanted to badly marry me and she wasn't gonna let that stop her. I'm sorry that sounds so damned cynical and conceited but a lot of background info would be needed to see it my way I guess. She didn't understand what crossdressing meant to me then and she sure couldn't foresee what it would come to mean later. Hell, I couldn't foresee that myself. It has become more important to me and a greater part of me than ever before and she has become a lot more tolerant and participatory. It's just that she remains so distant from that part of me for so much of the time. It's as if, if she ignores it, it'll go away. But it can't go away as it becomes more and more of what I really am. I may indeed be TS or TG and that question both excites me and scares me too. You surely understand that I know.
I've asked myself so many times, am being selfish here? Am I asking for too much? Hell, I don't even venture out from home dressed yet. Probably couldn't pass if I did. But is it too much to want her more involved with Olivia and to see me as Olivia and not my male persona? I just don't think it's asking too much. Like you also, if I had known that 30 years down the road so much progress would still be needed, then yes, I would have reconsidered marriage to her. We could have spared each other much pain as you said. The truth is that I love her and I want to stay together. The truth is also that I love Olivia and I want her to love her too. And if she never will, well, does that dream die or move on? Chrissie you have my warmest wishes for success here. Girl, I do know your pain and I so hope that brighter days are ahead for you, and yeah, for me too. always, Olivia