I'm on the GG side. We need to start taking resonsibility for who we are

[michelleupnorth]

I keep hearing that my spouse found out, and I need to purge, and the relationship break-ups that happen over this cross-dressing. I hear it over and over again and it is destructive to live in a relationship that has lies. It makes no wonder that the GG's SO get pissed with us when they find our stuff. They think that we have lied to them for so many years and what else are we lying about. This is something that they should know about. I know it makes it hard after you have been with someone for some time, but, coming out to her will be better instead of waiting for her to find it. It sucks for both of you, perhaps part of the reason relationships don’t last is because people don’t trust the other anymore.

I have been in the situation where I’ve lived with someone and kept it a secret and I purged and then bought more because I can’t stop being who I am. I have ended relationships because I didn’t have the guts to tell them. I’ve been busted and that sucked big time.

I have also been in relationships where I’ve told my partner and guess what the 3 relationships that I told them, they were ok with it. They were curious and wanted to know more. I was honest and that goes along way in a relationship.

If she was doing something behind your back wouldn’t you be upset?

Just my

OK now let me have it.

[Cheery GG]

Bloody hell Michelle....a cd that talks sense, well done you !

em
x

[Elly]

nothing to let you have, except a cookie... you're absolutely correct, a marrage or any relationship where one party is continualy hiding something from the other is doomed if the dam breaks and all is exposed, it's best to be upfront about it instead of skulking around behind the SOs back, besides sneaking around seems a bit shady, and leaves the SO to wonder what other shady things you are up to while they're out of the house, if you couldn't be up front about something like CD...

[Sheila]

Attachment 45854

Thanks Michelle

[Emily Ann Brown]

[SIZE="4"]BRAVO ![/SIZE][SIZE="1"][/SIZE]


Emily Ann

[Lanore]

I'm with you Michelle. People need to look at the situation from the other side. What if it were the other way around. Would they approve? Marriage and friendships are supposed to be based on truth. When one keeps a little to themselves, they're in for a big let down and what suprises me is, they can't understand why.

Lanore

[Sheri 4242]

". . . it is destructive to live in a relationship that has lies . . . (t)hey think that we have lied to them for so many years and what else are we lying about. This is something that they should know about."

Okay, I'll let you "have it" as you said: Well said, Michelle, well said!!!!!!! You are absolutely right!!! To use the title of a Billy Joey song, "It's a Matter of Trust." IMHO, a marriage is only as strong as the foundation upon which it is built. Build it on lies and deception, and I don't care how smart you are or how careful you hide your secret, your marriage is built on a foundation that is doomed to crumble!!!

And, most people (men and women) that I know, will, when they find out they have been lied to in a major way, will always wonder, "what else has this person been lying about." Trust is broken -- and broken trust is perhaps one of THE most difficult things to rebuild in a relationship!!!

So there you go: well said, succinctly and accurately!!!

Barb

[Marcie Sexton]

Well put, I have been truthful withmy wife and after some time to hash things out we found a new strength in our relationship...

We are going stronger than ever...but given a choice between my own self satification and my family's happiness, wanna guess who will make the sacrafice...

[Valerie Nicole]

I've always believed this as well. Nice post. I agree 100%. I guess that means I'm also on the GGs' side, lol.

[Kate Simmons]

While I believe it's best to be honest, you have to realize that not all SO's react in the same way. Some will not try to understand and will never accept it no matter what we say or how we feel. We are all different and we all react differently. Yeah, it's best to be honest and hope for the best but be prepared for the worst and all the fallout that comes with it. It's a decision every one of us has to make individually.

[battybattybats]

I think that many who hide are worried about how their SO will feel. So much so that they would rather hide and lie than risk hurting their partner. The trouble is their partner has a right to decide for themselves. Of course many of us are hiding from ourselves too.

I suspect that many of us crossdressers need to share this with our partners for ourselves and for our partners. That we cannot be whole without doing so and that we cannot be in a relationship in good faith without doing so. Do we have the right to decide to try and protect our partners from the truth rather than to let them make up their own minds how they feel about it? Isn't that like telling a dying person they are fine so they will die in ignorance but without being upset? Is it better to risk losing the person you love by being worthy of that love and not deceiving them and yourselves?

Of course most of us are not entirely (or at all) comfortable with what we are and that can make it near-impossible to share with others. Some of us don't come to terms with it (or even discover it) until after they are well into a comited relationship or marriage so it isn't as easy as being honest upfront. Some like me are as upfront as we can be at the time but from only a limited knowledge and poor understanding of this phenomenon, what it means and how vitaly and deeply important it often is to us.

It's more than just looking at it from the other side a holisic view is neccessary for understanding. Could, for example, some GG's understand better if they knew how much being open and forthright about this is not an easy thing for many of us. That even being honest with ourselves is for some terribly, terribly difficult. That said, what is the point of living skulking in the shadows? What is the point of going through life in an empty shell? What value is there in living a lie of 'normalcy' when normal is clearly a broken concept desperatly needing to be redefined?

To be whole and complete we all have to come to terms with who we are and to present who we are to those we wish to share our lives with because only that is showing a full respect for those you love and for yourself. The risks taken in doing so cannot though be swept away with simplistic rules or judgemental views of others moral decisions. I find it wryly amusing that you have to be able to 'be man enough' to be able to admit to wearing womens clothing.

And why is it so hard? Because we are taught to be uncomfortable with this part of ourselves, we are taught that because of our gender we should be a certain way, fit a certain mold, play a certain role and have certain expectations. If it was more visible and more common around us, if it was more accepted in society, then less and less of us would have this problem and it takes us, not other people but us to change society. We can't wait for others to do it for us. Perhaps we should study at the feet of other great causes for equality and social justice.

Anyone even slightly caught in this dilemma I think should try, if possible, to get quality counselling to help them on the path to self acceptance, and perhaps then to try and be open about who we are (dependant on circumstance of course). I think there needs to be more qualified services for us crossdressers. Perhaps a concerted effort to lobby and educate and expose and guide and support the whole community to create social change.

We come from all walks of life. We spend a good deal on clothes and make-up and such. What would happen if we pooled our resources? If we donated a small portion of our time, our talent, our pantyhose money for the cause?

Ultimately can it be enough just to accept ourselves? Can it be enough just to tell our partners? Don't we have an obligation to do even a small part to make it easier for every crossdresser to come out to their partners? To be comfortable with their own nature as crossdressers? Isn't it all part of the same thing, the same solution?

Also, if the estimates of the extent of crossdressing were even 4 times greater than the actual numbers isn't there an obligation to make the general female public more aware that this is such a common thing, that expectations of many for their husbands might need to be changed, that the stigma associated with it needs to be stamped out and doesn't it make sense that by helping female society and culture become more accepting and appreciating of crossdressers and the numbers of us suffering in fear and silence that this will in turn help many individual GG partners accept and come to terms with us?

Do we have the same equal obligation of honesty to ourselves and our partners and then society?

[NewBetty]

I've been thinking about this even before this excellent post by Michelle, because i wonder if hiding behavior from a SO is part of the turn on, the thrill of CD for some guys. That doesn't improve chances for success in a relationship, but maybe that's part of the "acting out" for people who can't be honest in their coupling. Any thoughts?

[Leah B]

Yep. Gotta be honest. It shouldn't even be a question.

The toughie is when you don't realize yourself that you're a crossdresser until you're in it. I was with sobe for 2.5 years before it hit me. Before that it was "just a fetish." Still, the sooner you say, ther better.

[micheal]

Iv been waiting for something like this to turn up for years .
No way i would be brave enough to have started it.

They think that we have lied to them for so many years and what else are we lying about

Think thats the key part to it for me.
I truely hate the idear of ever haveing to lie to anyone.

Iv not so much as kised a girl for way to long because i cant bring my self to start the lieing thing and have a huge problem with the trusting someone enough to share thing.

Just how dose that convertion start when you come out to someone anyway.
(Heads of in to the deap dark depths of the forum to find out).

Wow so proud of you for posting that Michelle that im going to have to give you a big hug.

[Michelle 51]

Michelle. I'm not sure i can say this and you not take it wrong because i don't want to offend you but you have been from your post in a lot of relationship's and it's not the same for someone who's got 10 15 20 or more year's invested.My wife know's but for a lot it can be a big risk to come out to a long time partner. Justabit

[joperinal]

When watching TV series, a crossdresser was in the series. Then my SO said, just like that: if you ever do someting like that I´ll pick up the kids and leave.
That´s not an invitation to tell her

[Karren H]

God were sooo happy for you.... That you beat the odds and had 3 SO's that love crossdressers soooo much!! And now that you've sucked up to all the GGs on the forum... Hiding behind their skirts.. Ok maybe their jeans.... Hehehe

But for the majority that are in the closet and/or have SO's that won't never ever approve its virtual relationship suiside to come out and admit it!!! I know never would have if she hadn't found out!! And I don't recommend it unless your 110% sure to have an outcome as good as all yours appearently were... Was... Are....

So let's all go out ourselves and destroy our happy marriages and lives and kids lives..... Make for some really really great posts I'll bet!!! Lol

Some peoples kids......

Love Karren

[JoAnnDallas]

Here is something to think about. many of us are boomers. This means we were born in the late 30's/ early 40's. Grew up in the 50/60's, and got married in the 70/80's. Long before the Internet and such. I bet most of us did not tell our wifes when we first got married mainly because we knew that they would not have married us. Also we were ashamed, because back then if you were a CD, you were SICK, PERVERTED, MENTALLY ILL, and no woman wanted a man like that. As such as time went on we kept it hidden. When the Internet came around and forums like this one came along, all of a sudden we discovered that we were not alone. Second society has changed enough that being a CD is no long a Mental Illness and people are more tolerant to us. I think the GAY Revolution had a lot to do with it. Even laws have changed. It used to be we could have been arrested for impersionating a female. In most cases it is no longer a crime and even law enforcment officers will treat us with respect. So here we are today, still in the closet and if we tell our wifes, we risk them leaving us because they precieve that we lied to them and so forth.
If I was just starting out today in life, yes I would tell my future bride all about me because today it's a lot easier and people are a lot more tolerant. Case in point, 3 CD friends of mine. All three are boomers like myself. All three have been married for decades. Then all of a sudden two decided to tell thier wifes they are a CD. The third the wife finds her out. Two are now devoiced and the third is getting a devoice. I look at as a catch 22, your damed if you told them at the beginning (1970-1980) and your damed if you tell them today (2000-2007). IMHO, don't be so hard on us boomers. It may be too late for us to come clean with out losing everything. It may be best to keep it in the closet. As for the younger generation since the internet, you have a better chance than we do. So tell them early on.

[Sandra]

Michelle

Thankyou

[Alex!]

Yes, quite true. There is great honor in truth, and this message has been lost on so many, including children. Part of the honor is that sometimes the truth is painful, but that we should be strong and courageous enough to face it head on. The other part is a deep demonstration of respect for the person we share the truth with.

An excellent and important post.

[Stephenie S]

Now Karren, that's not fair. Your wife does know, doesn't she? I know you never dress in front of her and I know you never talk about it, but you aren't living a lie, are you? She does know.

I think FAR more of our SOs and our families would be at least marginally accepting of us if only we were honest enough to tell them. I think we often sell our SO, families, and friends short in the acceptance department.

A whole lot depends on OUR attitude and OUR self acceptance. And, of course, how we wish to present ourselves matters greatly. We recently read about a new CDer who wanted to do yard work dressed in his/her Daisy Dukes. This would be inapropriate for ANYONE, male or female, in my neighborhood and I would only embarrass my wife and myself if I wanted to do this. 6" heels and fishnet stockings are inapropriate in all but the clubiest of venues. And yet many of us seem to want to "come out" dressed this way. I know that an atitude of self acceptance has gone a LONG way towards Stephenie's ability to function in society. And I know that your own personal atitude of self acceptance and your ability to appear "apropriately dressed" has gone a long way towards Karren's ability to function so well out in the world.

I think that Michelle's plea for honesty in any intimate relationship is a valid one. Trite as it may sound, and as scary as it may seem, honesty is often the best policy. I know that for some this is just not possible, but I am willing to bet that far more of our SOs would welcome a bit less hiding and lying, and a bit more honesty and self confidence from us than we offer them.

JMHO,
Stephenie

[michelleupnorth]

God were sooo happy for you.... That you beat the odds and had 3 SO's that love crossdressers soooo much!! And now that you've sucked up to all the GGs on the forum... Hiding behind their skirts.. Ok maybe their jeans.... Hehehe

But for the majority that are in the closet and/or have SO's that won't never ever approve its virtual relationship suiside to come out and admit it!!! I know never would have if she hadn't found out!! And I don't recommend it unless your 110% sure to have an outcome as good as all yours appearently were... Was... Are....

So let's all go out ourselves and destroy our happy marriages and lives and kids lives..... Make for some really really great posts I'll bet!!! Lol

Some peoples kids......

Love Karren

First off
I'm wondering if it is the fact that you cross-dress that causes the marriage to fall apart or if it's a lot of other things and that is the straw that broke the camels back; a good excuse to end it. The fact remains that we were dishonest and that trust has been broken. That is probably more of an issue than wanting to wear women’s clothes. Yes I have been in more than one relationship and the one woman who did find my stash was pissed. That relationship was over before she found out. I have told 3 of the women and they were sort of ok with it, I was honest and they seemed to appreciate that quality in me more than anything else.

Of course everybody’s situation is different. I think for anybody that hasn't started a relationship yet and is reading this maybe they can think about this thread before they decide to spend their lives with someone and have something to hide. If from the start the other person decides they aren't interested then move on they are not the right one for us. I believe there are lost of women who will accept us for who we are without judgement.


I don't think I'm hiding behind anybodys skirt or jeans and I'm not sucking up to anybody. I'm just as guilty for living with someone and not telling them. I'm older now and wonder if I would have said something from the start if we would still be together. For those that get caught and are still together KUDOS to you, that woman loved you because of who you are.

[MJ]

hi Michell well said. but if i may. you told your gg friends up front thats great
but there are many here who are married and are afraid the marriage will end therefore are in a trap of there own making. and have to live with there secret or pay a horrible price if they disclose it ... and then again maybe not. there could be a 50/50 chance win all or lose all

[kerrianna]

Well said Michelle.

For some of us CDing turns out to be much more than just playing. It can be a way of expressing our mis-gendered feelings. That's a huge huge thing to deal with. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for people to feel they have to go that route alone. If you're lucky you are in a relationship with a person who genuinely loves and cares for you and wants to help you through tough stuff. So the more open and communicative you are with your partner the better it will be for you.

That said, we must remember that not everyone is lucky enough to be in a healthy open relationship. Some people are hanging in there unhappily, out of a sense of duty or devotion, even though they don't connect with their partners anymore. Some people may love their partners still but know full well that their partner's upbringing, or family attitudes, mean that full disclosure would bring nothing but heartache. I truly feel for anyone in a position like that. It would be easy for us to say 'well, that's not healthy, you should at least take a chance and come out, and quit the relationship if it doesn't work out" but we can't speak for others and their situations. In those cases all we can do is support and encourage them, hoping that they will find what they need. It would be nice if everyone had the confidence to reveal themselves fully, but those that don't often have vary valid reasons (to themselves) not to. The problem is that those things usually blow up eventually...but then again, maybe those kind of relationships do too.

I couldn't believe it when right after their 50th wedding anniversary my grandparents split up. I thought they were the happiest couple. Turns out they despised each other in the end. For whatever reasons (certainly not following their hearts) they stuck it out together and put on a brave face.

[mylitta]

It is destructive to live in a relationship that has lies. They think that we have lied to them for so many years and what else are we lying about. This is something that they should know about.

If she was doing something behind your back wouldn’t you be upset?

Just my

OK now let me have it.

Thank you.That's it exactly- once you have been lied to it's really hard to trust again. I can't imagine how hurt I would be if I had found out after years- it's so hurtful to think your loved one can't trust you enough to be truthful