Identity confusion

[bi_weird]

I’m basically totally lost right now. Can someone tell me what gender is? I honestly have no idea what it means to be male or female. The corollary of that is that I have no idea at the moment what it means to be transgender. I think I got it at some point, but I may have been fooling myself.
I’ve never really understood gender. Didn’t get it back in third grade in shirts vs. skins soccer why I wasn’t allowed on the skins team. Didn’t get why I had to wear dresses when my brothers didn’t. Heck I think I might be bisexual because while I can see sexual differences, when it comes to relating to a person, not a body, I can’t tell the difference. I think it’s like being colorblind.
I feel so very lost. Am I really trans? Maybe I’m just a really feminist type, who hates being told what she can’t do. Maybe I just like boys clothes because girls clothes are horridly uncomfortable and never fit me right. I don’t know what ‘male’, ‘female’, and ‘trans’ mean at the moment (like I said, I thought I had it, but lost it at some point in the recent past) so it’s really hard to know. I don’t know what it’s normal for a girl to feel. A lot of my female friends say they don’t like wearing girls clothes or being treated like a girl, but they don’t identify as trans. I’ve always said that I must be simply because I seek out places like this and information on the subject, and therefore I’m different from my friends who have no need for this. Is that a good enough definition?
Of course, this is made worse by the fact that my life is going through major changes. I graduated a month ago, and one of my two best friends moved away two weeks later. In two weeks my other best friend leaves, and then in a month I go to California, thousands of miles from anything I know. So yeah, I’m very lost at the moment. Anyone got any advice? Or a bottle of vodka? We’re all out here, which is sad indeed.

[Marla S]

Hope it is allowed to jump in from the other side.

I could share a bottle of whisky.

No advice, but I feel that I know what you feel. I feel similar right now.

I think this TG thing is a very slippery ground. I feel like bouncing between all man, all woman, and all me (whatever this precisely is). Quite alone, because there is little orientation.

It's a state of not cis and not trans. Maybe one could it call all-gendered or off-gendered or para-gendered.

Maybe a bit similar to you, I often think that my prob is not that I can't be a woman, but that I can't stand the part that is assigned to men.

Sometimes, despite all this confusion, it is real fun to be me.

I hope you have these moments too and feel better soon.


I share my whisky with you

[Kate Simmons]

I have a hard time myself sometimes, Hon, so I don't worry about it, go with the flow and and enjoy being who I am and how I feel. Think I'll join you and Marla for that drink.

[Dasein9]

I’m basically totally lost right now. Can someone tell me what gender is?

I'm writing my dissertation on gender. That means I'm becoming an expert in the subject.

My answer: I don't know. The more I read, the less I find in the way of hard and fast answers to this question.

The best I've come up with so far: It's Jazz. No, really. In Jazz, there are instruments, there are notes, there are scales, there are rhythms, there are tonalities, there are themes. But Jazz means everyone's playing their own variations on the themes. Some people's variations sound a lot like other people's variations, and they all kind of harmonise. And then some people do these really far-out things with what they've got, and their variations really stick out of the crowd.

With gender, we've got bodies, chromosomes, hormones, brains that may or may not work differently, clothing, body language, mannerisms, linguistic ability, social roles, expectations, sexual orientation, and a bunch of other things. And some of these elements change over time, too, which makes it even more complex. Most people vary these themes. Single mothers, for instance, take on traditionally masculine roles a lot of the time, even when they're not transgender. Most biological males have some feminine traits. But most people vary the themes in their own ways. And most of them end up with variations that are their own, but also harmonise with one another.

Then there's us. We're the ones whose variations on the themes tend to do new things. Sometimes the rest of the band kicks us out because we're too off-the-wall. But we're also the ones whose innovations are the exciting ones, at least to us.

Does this make any sense at all?

[bi_weird]

Does this make any sense at all?

Yes. Actually it makes a lot of sense. Except I don't know if I'm truely innovative or just trying to sound talented when really I'm not.

[Dasein9]

I suspect that's what a lot of the great jazz musicians wonder too.

[Felix]

Hi Bi, well Hun on a similar note to Das I think we are as deep and as wide as the oceans. Deep because we are complex beings, wide because are personalities are vast. I feel for ya Hun because I am trying to deconstruct this person society has made me and put it together in a way that I can relate and feel totally comfortable with. Hope this has helped a little Hun xx Felix

[pocoyo]

Hi Bi... awww I'm really sorry that you're feeling so lost and confused right now *hugs*

I think a lot of us have felt similarly so you're not strange or alone!
Er.. I've come to realise lately that I have quite low self esteem sometimes and that I doubt myself a LOT... do u find that at all with yourself?

I think Das' answer was really cool ... "it's jazz" haha. Awesome.

Perhaps you're just really cool and open and tolerant and nice and that's why you can't see gender.

Sorry that you're lost because your friends moved away too, awwwww.
*another hug*

When you go to california then I think you'll have a brilliant time and it will be really exciting for you! And even if it isn't, you can always go home, or to somewhere where you feel more happy. So don't panic... you can do it!

Btw it's normal to feel lost at times like just before a move, or when friends have moved away and with thinking about the nature of yourself... so again, don't panic ... it's normal to feel weird!!

Hmmm... as far as the trans thing... I think it boils down to... just do what makes you feel comfortable and happy!
Hope you are feeling much better soon.
And remember, even when you're lost we are here for you! We can be an anchor!

ps. sorry if that answer doesn't make much sense... I'm a bit bleh after work lol

[kerrianna]

Hi Bi, sorry you're feeling confused right now. This too shall pass.

I was reading a book (lol written for teens - well I act like one!) about sexual and gender identity. They use the term GLBTQ with the Q = Questioning.

Questioning is seen as a valid Sexual/Gender ID. I thought that was really cool, because it acknowledges that you can be in a place of searching that is in and of itself a location, if you know what I mean.

I think if we are creative, vital, growing humans, we go through different phases of our lives where we challenge our mindsets, where we discover new things about ourselves and the world, where we experiment and try things. When we stop doing that we essentially stagnate. This process hopefully doesn't stop during your lifetime. I myself have come out of a fairly stagnant period where I thought I knew all about myself, yet my life wasn't very satisfying and I was shutting down instead of embracing life. Now that I'm moving again, I hope I never stop.

I know it's more confusing and sometimes scary to kind of ping pong through life like that, yet it can be done with insight and control and make your life more enriched. Some days you will feel lost, but know that you are never truly lost. You're just exploring...the forest path always comes out in the same place at the end, and we'll all be there together, sharing tales of our life adventures.

[ZenFrost]

What Das said. ;-)

Also, there is a term called LGBTIQQ, which stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trangendered/Transexual/Transvestite, Intersex, Queer, and Questioning. Pretty much anything that could be considered a variation on sex, sexuality, or gender is lumped into that massive category. Society seems to clearly label these things under a standard (ie. relationships are between a man and a woman, anyone who is born a man is a man and that's that, etc.) but when you really look at it, sex, sexuality, and gender are all vague concepts. Society as a whole is becoming geared towards androgyny, moreso than 50 years ago for instance. Women wear pants and have jobs, men stay at home and take care of children. 50 years ago that was unheard of.

It's okay to be confused because there are no clear cut definitions any more. Understanding yourself takes time, and it can be very hard to map out on the spectrum of LGBTIQQ. Instead of trying to wrap your head around everything, try to focus just on yourself and know yourself before you try on any labels.

[Pink Person]

Hi BW,

I will give you a brief summary about my opinions of the terms that you used in your post about identity confusion.

Sex, gender and sexual preference are related concepts but not interchangeable ones. Your physical sex (male, female, or intersex) is a formal characteristic. Your gender (masculine, feminine, or androgynous) is a general functional characteristic. Your sexual preference (heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual) is a specific functional characteristic. A transsexual person is one who has a physical form that is opposite to the one that was associated with them at birth. A transgender person is one who functions in a manner that is generally opposite to the gender that was associated with them at birth.

I believe that gender is by far our most complex characteristic for reasons that I won’t discuss in detail but you and others have given some examples. Ultimately every person defines their gender for themselves. You are what you know yourself to be and what you want to be. I hope that I have helped you with my answer to your post.

Pink

[Kimberley]

Hi Bi!
First, congrats on graduating! Way to go!!!

Okay now to the gender role thingy. I dont know what it means to be female any more than I know what it means to be male. What I DO KNOW is how I feel. I feel psychologically (for lack of a better description) attracted to what would be considered a binary female. My experience of course is binary male (which I detest). My feeling is that I DO NOT feel male. So my choice is where? Somewhere in the middle because of life experience + feeling thing.

I am sexually hetero (I think), although I cannot rule out a relationship with a GM (preferrably once transitioned) which would still make me hetero except I would or could still have relationship with a GF.

Confused yet? I'm not. I just take it for what it is and that is that it just is. Once I quit worrying about all this garbage I was a lot more at ease with myself. Bottom line is that there are as many genders as there are people.

I need a . My head hurts...


Kimberley

[CaptLex]

Bottom line is that there are as many genders as there are people.

This is how I feel about it too, in a nutshell. I also like what Das said about "jazz" (though it did my head in a little ). I wish I had wise words to help end your confusion, Bi. I think we're all just trying to figure it out as we go along, and hopefully we can help each other with that.

[kerrianna]

This is how I feel about it too, in a nutshell. I also like what Das said about "jazz" (though it did my head in a little ). I wish I had wise words to help end your confusion, Bi. I think we're all just trying to figure it out as we go along, and hopefully we can help each other with that.

Speaking of confusion... you and Poc got the same avatar!

Although it is a very cool avatar.

hehehe...I think "it's jazz" will be my answer for everything now. Good one Das.

[CaptLex]

Speaking of confusion... you and Poc got the same avatar!

Really . . . I hadn't noticed . . . :hmmm: :joke:

hehehe...I think "it's jazz" will be my answer for everything now. Good one Das.

I agree, from now on whenever someone asks me to explain it, I think "it's jazz" will sum it up nicely.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Am I really trans? Maybe I’m just a really feminist type, who hates being told what she can’t do.

You might be interested in this article by transman sociologist Aaron Devor, "Female Gender Dysphoria: Personal Problem or Social Problem?"

Devor argues that there's overlaps between various kinds of gender discomfort. If you're tired of academese, just skip to tables 1 and 2, which summarize the points in the article.

One good point that Devor makes is that "gender dysphoria" really has three components:

- sex identity, i.e. male vs female based on what's between your legs

- gender self-identity, i.e. what do you see yourself as (based on your non-physical characteristics), e.g. masculine and/or feminine

- gender role, i.e. how others interact with you based on your perceived gender, e.g. man vs. woman.

Teasing these apart might better help you figure out where you stand.

[Dasein9]

Hey! No stealing my work until after the dissertation's done!

[CaptLex]

Hey! No stealing my work until after the dissertation's done!

You'll be famous! Professor Das' jazz theory . . .

[Dasein9]

Yeh, after I publish, 'kay?

[pocoyo]

Ah I .. I guess I better change my quote under my name thing then...
(It said "It's Jazz" (Prof. Das))

Btw no-ones stealing your work, u buffoon
Just quoting the cool words of a cool dude.

[Dasein9]

Buffoon! I like that!

[pocoyo]

*licks his cheek*

[Kieron Andrew]

Buffoon! I like that!

LOL Better than Baboon!

[Dasein9]

Eh, Pratchett's librarian is a Baboon. Ours is a Buffoon.

Works for me.

[Cai]

Eh, Pratchett's librarian is a Baboon. Ours is a Buffoon.

Works for me.

Orangutan! Pratchett's librarian is an Orangutan! Remember, he doesn't have the bottom. (I forgot which book that discussion was in, but all the UU profs were arguing over it).