Rights in Relationships

[Valerie Nicole]

I have a question for everyone here...and I might take some heat for asking this...but keep in mind I am not trying to express an opinion, just get an answer. I would especially like to hear from the GGs, but responses from anybody and everybody are welcome.

If a CDer (MtF in this example, but it really could be either) is dating a non CDing GG, and the GG does not know about the CDing...is the CDer really obligated to share this information with his girlfriend? I mean, he does it only in private, has told nobody, and its something he does for himself. Does his girlfriend have a right to know what he does? What if they get engaged? Does she have a right then? What if they get married? Does she have a right then?

Suppose that, for some magical reason, it is absolutely impossible for the CDer to be discovered accidentally. This means that his girlfriend/fiance/wife can't become aware of his CDing unless he comes out to her. No doubt that it may be deceptive on the CDers part to tell her, but if she is completely unaware of the deception and it will remain that way forever, is the deception really damaging to the relationship?

I know it's a little complicated and that I've asked a lot of questions in this post, so I'll just sum it up now. At what point and under what circumstances (if any) does an SO have a right to know that her partner is a CDer? Or, in other words, at what point and under what circumstances (if any) is a CDer required to come out to their partner?

[Marla S]

Simple answer.
YES she has the right.
It is mandatory that she knows.
And it should be mandatory that she nows at least before marriage (I know that needs the CD to accept him/herself first. The tricky part of it, and not always possible, the more as some CDs seem to hope their desire would fade due to the relationship.)

An SO has a free will too, and she has the right to make a free decision, which should be based on the truth.

One of the most important things in a relationship is trustfulness.
That is hard to get or maintain if there are secrets of considerable impact.

[RobertaFermina]

When the relationship turns from 'dating' and 'fun' toward 'courtship' and 'marriage' or the like. THEN she has a right to know *NOW*.

And the CD male has a right to know all your secrets too!

Roberta

[Chantelle CD]

Ill answer all the questions in 1 answer

If two people come together in love, they become one together, so close, you dont even need words to know when something is wrong, you can see it in her, as you know there is something wrong with yourself. Any deception compromises this connection, i believe.

chantelle

[Sheila]

As a GG who found out after being in the relationship for over 2 1/2yrs before I discovered/found out by accident discovered I mean ......... and still in the relationship 10 months later, I can truely say it hurt it hurt so bad that I feel this way on occasions ........ not often but enough to write this

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ad.php?t=60229


So I guess my answer would be as soon as you think this relationship is heading somewhere
hope this helps

[Sandra]

I would say the SO has a right to know as soon as possible but definalty before things get to serious.

If the CDer wants their patrner to trust them then yes they should come out to them, because if they don't and the SO finds out later, it causes a lot of hurt on both sides.

[Tree GG]

When you can answer that question with "I don't", then you'll understand.

[Daintre]

One of the things you gain as you grow older is hindsight and this tool becomes very useful. When you are young, you don't see the consequences of your actions, intentional deceit and not being upfront will cause a rift in any relationship which is based on truth. You certainly shouldn't worry about telling the girlfriend until you are serious about the relationship, then you have to be up front and honest. This way, she has the option to accept you and your "quirks" or end the relationship.

[fionasboots]

The scenario you describe is somewhat implausible for a start but even if you could approach this supposed ideal I suspect that it would be hell rather than the heaven you seem to think it would be.

For a start you would have an SO that is either completely and totally naive or who just doesn't care about you enough to notice details such as the shaved legs and immaculate nails

Also you have effectively trapped yourself in the closet forever with no means of escape. This means you maintain CDing but can never grow further with it - sounds good now, but do you really want to be stuck forever?

The ideal is not a scenario where you'll never be caught, it's where you have a partner that accepts, understands, supports and even encourages you with the CDing.

Taking the deception route is pretty selfish, but objectively there may be good reasons. However taking this approach when you don't have to is frankly dumb; try and find an accepting partner instead, it'll be better for both of you in the long run!

Oh, and in reality something always gives, either your SO finds out by accident or you crack and tell them - in both cases you're likely to have a huge mess on your hands!

[Valerie Nicole]

I definitely should have mentioned this in my first post, but I was trying to remain as objective as possible. First of all, I do myself believe that it is best for the relationship to share this part of myself very early on. That is my policy and my standard operating procedure. That's what happened with my last (and so far only) girlfriend. In fact, she knew before we even started dating. I also agree that the scenario I described is not ideal, and it was never meant to be. It was supposed to be a situation in which the relationship could not be affected by the CDing unless the CDer wanted it to be.

Hope that clears up the misunderstandings.

Edit: I'm going to add an additional question, then. If a partner has the right to know that a CDer is a CDer, then does the CDer have the right to a partner who is going to accept them? I mean, would you consider it fair or unfair if a relationship were to be ended by the CDer on the grounds that their partner wasn't accepting enough?

[fionasboots]

You often don't get what you may consider to be things that you have a right to, that's just life.

If the relationship ends because your partner can't accept your CDing - whether they or you end things - it's really not a case of being fair or unfair, it's just how things are.

To quote (well paraphrase really): "Give me the strength to change the things I can and the grace to accept those that I can't".

Also paraphrasing: Screaming "unfair" at the universe is unlikely to gain you much apart from a sore throat. It's best just to get on ans enjoy yourself and find other people that you enjoy being with who enjoy your company and, well just to lots of enjoying and stop worrying about rights and such

[Megan72]

Valerie: to me a relationship is a choice that two people agree to enter into - together. I prefer to make my decisions based upon the most complete information possible, therefore, if one person hides a pertinent aspect of information then I am incapable of making an informed decision. (god that sounds like the boy talking there!!)

What if your SO had cancer and might pass in a couple of years, do you think then you would have the right to know this information? I think I would like to know. It may not be the deciding factor in my choice but it would be nice to know regardless. So the answer for me is yes SO's have the right to know about not just CDing but all of the little quirks and idiosyncrasy's in our life. That way they know whether or not to get involved with the other.

[Andi]

I guess it depends on how you embrace the meaning of "Significant Other" (a person who is important to one's well-being). Either she is and therefore worth revealing everything there is about yourself or she isn't in which case you're just playing games.

[Ashley1]

Erica has stated my case better than I can. I think that there are very few people in this world who have told their SO or spouse every thing about themselves. If such people exist, they should try walking on water.

Ashley

[Megan72]

Erica has stated my case better than I can. I think that there are very few people in this world who have told their SO or spouse every thing about themselves. If such people exist, they should try walking on water.

Ashley

No doubt that is the reality. But it does not negate the ethical questions raised in this thread.

[DawnL]

Valerie Nicole,
I can't speak for anyone else but it seems to me that crossdressing is a part of who I am and why I feel the way I do about other things in life. When it came back into my life I had to tell my wife. I had no idea what her reaction would be but I had to tell her. If she was not supportive then we would have to work on that. How can she know who I am if she doesn't know this major part of me?

[Chrysoprase]

At what point and under what circumstances (if any) does an SO have a right to know that her partner is a CDer? Or, in other words, at what point and under what circumstances (if any) is a CDer required to come out to their partner?

When its serious enough to use the word partner. A date here or there is one thing, but everyone has the right to know who they are in a serious relationship with.

[Alice B]

If the relationship is to be serious and lead to a long range partnership and possible marriage, you MUST TELL HER. Her acceptance is the key to the relationship lasting. For her to find out after the fact leads to mis-trust and failure of the relationship. The chances are that she already knows or already suspects anyway. Be bold. truthful, honest, etc. You have seen this this comment many times if you have been paying attention to this forumn.

[fionasboots]

I still think that rights and ethics and morals in this context are just an excuse to hide away from the reality of life.

Taking the example that hi24home suggested; should a post-op TS tell an SO about their original gender, you can argue all sorts of ways from a moral/ethical perspective. However, once you take real life into account all these arguments are irrelevant.

For example, how would friends and relatives of a post-OP TS react to an SO that didn't know. Would some want to tell? Would some act oddly if the whole TS topic ever came up? Would parents/relatives feel and act awkwardly around a partner they may consider to be the wrong gender for their child? Or maybe they would just be over-protective.

Taking CDing, as Erica suggests it is the kind of thing that evolves over time and what was once easy to contain gets a little unwieldy when you have several suitcases crammed with clothes and your SO notices lipstick marks on glasses you were drinking out of.

From my experience, sooner or later an SO will either find out or you will actually want to tell, either because you feel it's right or you simply want the person you care about to know.

So I'd say again, rights/wrongs/morals/ethics are essentially irrelevant, from a practical and even selfish point of view it's likely to be best to tell up-front so you get a partner that's best for you.

[battybattybats]

Actually I think that rights, ethics and morals are absolutely applicable to every case. That's what they exist for

Firstly I believe everyone has a right to privacy, even in relationships. There are reasons why having privacy is normally in lists of what makes up a healthy relationship and not having privacy is in the lists of unhealthy or abusive relationships.

That said there are simple factors involved.
Can the CD be sure they will never be found out? No, no-one can be sure, only confidant at best.

Can the CD be sure that they will never want SO participation or to be out or full time? No. They can only be certain of the present and guess at the future.

Is it right for the CD to make choices 'in the best interest of' the SO instead of informing them and letting them make up there own minds. Nope.

Therefore for the best interests of all concerned the most moral and ethical choice is to inform the SO asap... in most circumstances. There are times when that is not always the case and if a CD finds themselves dressing only years after already marrying, if the SO has already expressed transphobic opinions that are unlikely to shift and I'm sure a host of other reasons then it can be right to keep it private.

[Denielleinheels]

to each their own. If you are in a relationship and it could be the one, she/he needs to know... otherwise it is lying through omission. How can you have a seriouse relationship if you are only bringing half of you to the table?

[Kerry Owens]

It's hard to say, but if you reach the point you're serious...and you realize she just might be getting serious too, it's time to start talking. Lots and lots of talking, explaining and understanding is needed. Because you have to take the discussions at her pace.
Break the news at a relaxed time, and if you want to break it gradually that's good too. But, be honest. She's going to have questions and fears too, and once the lack of knowledge has been filled in most of the time fear isn't the problem. Most women are not handicapped by attitudes from the past, those who cannot deal with the truth, well... there are other ladies.
Accepting GG's are not a myth, neither are they opinionless. We have understanding, wonderful crossdressers who took the time, and patience to explain, and to listen to our feelings in turn. It really does work out that simply.

[Dasein9]

I find it difficult to imagine wanting to be with someone with whom I can't share an important part of who I am. If I can't tell this person how I like to dress, how could I ever let them close enough to... well, you know...?

As for the later-asked question, Yes, a CD absolutely, positively has the right to a partner who is accepting, and non-acceptance of CD-ing is certainly a reason to end a relationship.

[Lawren]

Since that kind of magic does not exist that is a moot point.

As for the rest of it, it depends on where you draw the line between "absolute truth" and "little white lies".

IMHO, if you are seriously dating then you are already in a relationship and that requires honesty. If you intend to continue dating, then she has every right to know. If you do not intend to continue dating, then you are just using her and that is worse than not coming out to her.

Come on, Guys. What is so scary about being honest. Especially with the one you love the most.

[marie354]

Any of the relationships that I've had in the past where I tried to keep it a secret, never worked out well.

Now the ones where I was honest about my inner self, worked much better.

It's probably harder on you by keeping it hidden in the long run.