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Thread: The Military and the Crossdresser

  1. #1
    Gold Member dancinginthedark's Avatar
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    Question The Military and the Crossdresser

    I have always assumed that the military was strict about dress codes & I wondered if any of you have first hand experiences on what would happen, if anything, if a solider was found to be "underdressing" under their uniform? Would it make a difference if the solider was off duty? Would it be against any regulations to be a crossdresser in or out of the closet? The only thing I can think of, and this is just a guess, is being found out of uniform. I haven't heard anything in the news or else where that addresses this, but I'll be the first to admit I am not a big fan of the news either. The closest I've heard is the don't ask don't tell rule for gays, but being transgendered doesn't mean you are gay. So no help there.

    And what about those who are TS? Are there any regulations on soldiers who are found to be taking hormones or transitioning in any way? Is it possible to be "out" without being booted out of the service.

    Nope. I have no one in RL who is currently in the service who is transgendered.

    So anyone know?? I am not looking to turn this into is it right or wrong here. No politics in other words, just looking for some facts and information from someone who knows. Thanks in advance.

    `
    dancin
    Last edited by dancinginthedark; 09-14-2007 at 02:30 PM.

  2. #2
    Toyah Toyah's Avatar
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    Not sure exactly how it is now but when I was in the forces anything like that in or out of uniform would be instant dismissal. it would be extremely difficult to hide anyway you cannot imagine how closely the forces live together

  3. #3
    Gold Member MJ's Avatar
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    in Canada you must wear the full uniform, the uniform as numbers and you must dress correctly ... but if out of uniform ...dress how you feel feminine or in drab , kinda tough if you live on the base
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #4
    rAiNbOw_BaLlErInA KirstyChibiMoon's Avatar
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    us army (retired)

    i served 7 years in the us army from 1987 to 1994 and was a closeted cd then...

    that was when they had the big "don't ask don't tell" policy about being gay, and I was straight at that time.
    Anyway, I was busted one during an IG inspection by a 2 star general <giggles> he saw a bunch of my ballerina clothes and some of my undies and dresses <giggles>

    he just looked over at me and raised an eyebrow then left!
    i never heard about it after that

    btw im retired after only 7 years becasue i was hurt jumping out of plains in italy. AIRBORNE! weee! <giggles>
    when i got hurt my biggest fear was the doc seeing that i was wearing tights and a leotard under my BDUs <giggles>

    then round the last year of my service we had a sergent from the navy that changed service and he told me alot about some of the things that goes on on a ship! WOW...
    he used to dress up as a girl as some kind of ceremony <giggles>
    so then i told him about me being a cd so once in a while we would both go out on the weekends in drag

    we got teased alot but we were both good soldiers and my CO didnt mind, sure we got teased alot by the others but who cares... i think they were just jealous!
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  5. #5
    Gold Member DonnaT's Avatar
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    I believe one can still dismissed from the service if caught CDing. One is subject to the uniform code of military justice 24hrs a day, so there is no such thing as off duty time in this regard.

    So, if caught, or even if one tells a psychologist (they are obligated to report it), it depends on the person catching you if they report you. You can be judged unfit (mental defect?) for military service according to the military's medical regulations.

    However, due to recruitment woes, a number of commanders are not likely to dismiss someone on the grounds of CDing.

    I had a good link once. I'll see if I can find it.
    DonnaT

  6. #6
    Gold Member DonnaT's Avatar
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    Here we go.

    Transgender service members also face the possibility of being discharged for having a personality disorder.


    Service members who seek psychological or medical treatment through the military should know that conversations with military health-care providers are not confidential and any statement concerning being transgender can, and most likely will, be reported to their commands and separation proceedings begun. For those members who seek treatment from civilian providers, beware that each service has regulations governing military members seeking outside health care and may include reporting requirements. Failure to abide by these regulations could potentially place a member at risk for UCMJ action. Further, cross-dressing as part of the transition process, even when prescribed by competent medical providers, may be considered a violation of the UCMJ and can potentially be prosecuted at court-martial.

    snip

    Transvestitism or Cross dressing is addressed in regulations concerning conduct and separation proceedings. Each service has different regulations and the specific manner of addressing the situation will depend on the service member's status as an enlisted or officer, and by which component they are in, active duty, reserve, or National Guard. In some of the regulations, transvestitism is considered to be misconduct / sexual perversion / sexual deviation that subjects the member to potential UCMJ action and subsequent discharge.

    While not a per se violation of either UCMJ Article 133 (Conduct Unbecoming) or Article 134 (General Article pertaining to good order and discipline), cross-dressing can be the basis for judicial, non-judicial, or administrative separation proceedings. The service is to look at various factors in deciding if cross-dressing by a member is prejudicial to good order and discipline: 1) the time, 2) the place, 3) the circumstances, and 4) the purpose for the cross-dressing.

    snip

    Every service member must abide by service regulations that address uniform and grooming standards.
    Last edited by DonnaT; 09-14-2007 at 04:47 PM.
    DonnaT

  7. #7
    Just another Gurl Hacker Elsbeth's Avatar
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    Well Klinger seemed to think it would get him out of the Army - but they kept him anyway.



    El

    Sorry, I know that wasn't helpful but I could not resist.

  8. #8
    Rainbow Rennie Butterfly Bill's Avatar
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    I always confined my indulgences to hotel rooms and off-base apartments. I wouldn't have even thought about crossing the line while at work and on duty.

  9. #9
    Member Linda Z's Avatar
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    I was in the navy for 6 years , if you are smart you find ways, they do not go out of their way to out good people.
    it dose depend on the rating or group you are in.

    Linda

  10. #10
    The One True Diva KandisTX's Avatar
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    I underdressed for the last year I was in the Air Force. I was told on by my ex-wife and ended up being investigated by the USAFOSI, they found nothing that could be used against me as in any form of blackmail, since the AF now knew about my cding, it was no longer a security risk. It could have been bad if I had had a penpal from Russia at the time ~giggles~

    Yes, they can be discharged however that would be pretty tough to prove since most psychiatrists know that CDing is not a "personality disorder". As to Klinger, well first, he was a character who was bucking for a Section 8 so that one really doesn't count. ~giggles~

    Kandis
    Someone once told me "Put on Your big girl panties and deal with it". If they only knew, I WAS ALREADY WEARING THEM.

    I wear the bras and panties so my wife doesn't have to.

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  11. #11
    Junior Member nataliecd77's Avatar
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    Well when I was in the US Army....... we had the don't ask don't tell deal going on.....but it seemed like if you were otherwise a good soldier noone cared if you were gay, a crossdresser or liked to go around painted purple!
    They could and occasionally did Chapter people for homosexual activities. The catch word was "propensity for homosexual activites" didn't mean you had to actually have gay sex.you just had to have a proven propensity for gay sex. The specific chapter title depended on wether you said something about it or wether Counter Intel caught you.
    Most time people got out with a Honorable or General Discharge which isn't a a bad thing.
    Having said all that I knew many many gays and lesbians in the service, alot of bisexuals and quite a few CD's or either persuasion.

    I have my throries why that is but that's a whole nother story!
    Natalie

  12. #12
    Gold Member TxKimberly's Avatar
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    I spent 12 years active duty Army (1983 to 1995). I would have never considered underdressing. I think DonnaT and KandisTx have pretty well covered it. If you have a security clearance, you didn't disclose this, and they find out later, it could be grounds for revoking your clearance. This is mostly because they fear it could be used to blackmail you.
    Certainly Crossdressing while on duty and in uniform is out of the question for exactly the reason you mentioned - you would not be in proper uniform. Even if you were in 100&#37; technically correct female uniform, you would still be "out of uniform" because they DO specify what uniform is for male/female.
    Off duty, you are in a VERY grey area. I don't claim to be an expert on military law, but I do not think crossdressing is specifically addressed or prohibited. There are a number of other regulations that could be used against you IF someone wanted to push hard enough. Most of them would boil down to "Conduct Unbecoming of . . ", undesirable, unfit, etc.
    I doubt very much any unit would tolerate someone doing it openly and repeatedly, like walking through the barracks every weekend in drag on your way out for a good time. In this case, even if they liked and respected you, I think most would feel obligated to process you out. All it would take is one close mided individual to be offended and push the issue
    If you were not too blatant and were discreet, for instance people may know you do it but they don't see you, or someone catches you once, then it really does boil down to your chain of command. If they want to, I have zero doubt they can use it to get rid of you. If they like and respect you and your work ethic, they might be inclined to overlook it.

  13. #13
    Member charlie-50's Avatar
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    CDing and the milatary

    kims right you just dont do it on post ...by the way im ex navy 74-78....charlie...

  14. #14
    Silver Member Billijo49504's Avatar
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    Does the term, Blanket party, have any meaning to you. You might find out what it means if the rest of your outfit finds out....BJ

  15. #15
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    It depends a lot on the Commander. If he/she wants to ignore it it will be ignored. If they want to pursue it you could get discharged. Not worth the risk.

  16. #16
    Gold Member Alice Torn's Avatar
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    I joined, with another "bad habit."

    I was in the Air Force, in the mid 70's, and cding never crossed my mind. I was 21, when joining, and, had suffered from a bed wetting problem, all my life, but it had been less, and less often. Nevertheless, in boot camp, I prayed, and prayed, that I would not wet the bed, there! And, I never did, after I joined. No, I wouldn't even entertain the thought, if I were in.

  17. #17
    Wyoming Cowgurl Ronda_B's Avatar
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    I was in the NAVY from 1975-1979 and only did it off base except when we were overseas. I had a good collection of panties and all my shipmates thought that they were trophies.....little did they know they were my own. Just having them made me feel better. When we in Barcellona Spain there was a big groupe of crossdressers and TG people and it seemed to be fully acceptable there. They even had stores that catered to them and I was in Heaven.
    RONDA

    [SIZE="4"][/SIZE] "I THINK THAT MY SWITCH IS STUCK PARTLY OPEN"

  18. #18
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    Pilot error

    I used to work for a major UK airline - and there was a pilot who was sacked, as it was found out he was wearing a bra underneath his uniform.

    I know it's not military, but it's interesting all the same.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancinginthedark View Post
    I have always assumed that the military was strict about dress codes & I wondered if any of you have first hand experiences on what would happen, if anything, if a solider was found to be "underdressing" under their uniform? Would it make a difference if the solider was off duty? Would it be against any regulations to be a crossdresser in or out of the closet? The only thing I can think of, and this is just a guess, is being found out of uniform. I haven't heard anything in the news or else where that addresses this, but I'll be the first to admit I am not a big fan of the news either. The closest I've heard is the don't ask don't tell rule for gays, but being transgendered doesn't mean you are gay. So no help there.

    And what about those who are TS? Are there any regulations on soldiers who are found to be taking hormones or transitioning in any way? Is it possible to be "out" without being booted out of the service.

    Nope. I have no one in RL who is currently in the service who is transgendered.

    So anyone know?? I am not looking to turn this into is it right or wrong here. No politics in other words, just looking for some facts and information from someone who knows. Thanks in advance.

    `
    dancin
    if there are underlying health reasons, the canadian military will even pay for srs. and as for underdressing they dont care what is under the uniform, they only realy care what can be seen.the only problem with under dressing would be when you shower with the rest of the guys.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Lawren's Avatar
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    WARNING!

    This could happen to you just as it did to me.

    I was caught wearing pantyhose while in the U. S. Air Farce. I was off duty but on base. I was arrested, taken to the hospital, examined, and ordered to get counseling. I spent the rest of my enlistment, (approx 18 months), in counseling. (Obviously it didn't change me. LOL) I have no proof of this but I think they used it as a factor when they denied me re-enlistment. This all happened in 1983 and I don't know if the policy about CDing has changed but I seriously doubt that it has.

    Be very carefull!

  21. #21
    Gold Member dancinginthedark's Avatar
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    Mornin' ladies and gents. Thank you for all of your answers. The question was prompted by the many posts I have seen from people who are/were in the service.

    With the current situation here in the States I couldn't help but wonder and worry about service men and women currently enlisted. Sometimes my mind takes me on some pretty odd rides. One of the latest went something like this: I am sitting at home reading here and someone mentions having been in the service. I hear a news brief in the background about Marines being injured... my mind flashes to some imagined solider under a great deal of stress... and that lead to thoughts of dressing to help relive stress ....and that leads to more stress on my imagined solider. My mind just goes round and round with it all. Which leads me to wonder just how many have struggled with this in the past and how many are now. So I post my questions and wait to see if it was/is just as bad as my mind tells me.

    The longer I am here the more situations I stumble across that weren't considered when I first started learning about this journey you are all on. So if no one has said it recently , "What an amazingly brave lot you are."

    .


    dancin



    `

  22. #22
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    It is really interesting that they would "arrest" and take a person to the hospital for wearing pantyhose! The military are unbelievable phobes. It seems that crossdressing is treated as a worse offense than being gay. Unbelievable that they care about either!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleria View Post
    You did it ON base?!

    Yes, folks, BE careful... Don't do it on base. And if you live in a big military town, find another place to dress... you never know when you'll run into someone.
    You will become stronger in the ways of the Pink Fog. May the Pink Fog guide you and be with you now and forever.

  23. #23
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    When I was going through the reception station in the army, we were all asked a few personal questions. Have always thought if I had answered one truthfuly I might have been sent home. The question was, Do you wear womens cloths or would you like to. Should have said yes, anytime I get the chance. May I can learn to would have went better. If I had answered yes, they would have made my life miserable, not only there but went I got home too. Brend smith

  24. #24
    Gold Member dancinginthedark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billijo49504 View Post
    Does the term, Blanket party, have any meaning to you. You might find out what it means if the rest of your outfit finds out....BJ

    I wasn't 100% sure so I did a search. That's horrible.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanket_party


    I also found this link to the The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network that may be of help to any who are currently enlisted in the States.

    http://www.sldn.org/templates/legalh...=19&record=726
    Last edited by dancinginthedark; 09-15-2007 at 10:38 AM.

  25. #25
    Gold Member MJ's Avatar
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    quote dancing :- " imagined solider under a great deal of stress... and that lead to thoughts of dressing to help relive stress ....and that leads to more stress on my imagined solider. My mind just goes round and round with it all. Which leads me to wonder just how many have struggled with this in the past and how many are now. "

    OK so if i join the army this will all go away ........ well no it won't and the stress builds up .. British army reserve Royal Corps of Signals.. i wonder how many others made that mistake ?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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