three out of five of my children cross-dress...

[BarbaraTalbot]

Ok, I have been thinking about FtM because of posts here recently.

My 10 year old daughter is 'going through a phase' (doesnt that sound like what all our mothers would have said?). Her 12 year old sister is very femme, and the 10 year-old is rebelling at hand-me-downs.

Her best friend is a guy, on the other hand he just came back from choir camp. Oh stereo types are are everywhere aren't they?

She will NOT wear pink, lace, ribbons, or frills of any kind. Her favorite color is purple though she doesn't consider it girly. She will wear one and only one kind of flower design and only because it matches her nick name which is very femme.

The thing that struck me is that stereotypes and dressing are just inaccurate. This girl is several inches shorter than her classmates and is barely over fifty pounds with a very feminine face, and insists on keeping her blond hair waist length. She views none of these things as fem. She is quite happy with her size and she thinks of her hair in terms of a Nirvana Era Dave Grohl rather than Barbie. (She HATE all things Barbie. Thinks it is inane and vapid)

We found some boys polo shirts and selected all the purple ones for her, and some more 'masculine' ones for the 8 year old boy. I also found some khaki cargo pants from the boys section in her side. SHE was pleased. She has been indifferent or irritated with most clothes we have gotten her in the recent past.

Oh and the most "femme" boys polo was one with a thin purple stripe, lime green and light blue bands. The Boy dove for that, its his favorite. He has been clomping around in his mom;s heels (the higher the better) since he could walk. Since I began buying shoes for Barbara only the last 2-3 months, the communal shoe collection has grown considerably. (I wear 9-10 Dee wear 8-9 so there is some overlap). He came in our room the other day and tried on a pair then proceeded to select and try on one by one each and every pair of "Barbara's" shoes ignoring Dee's! Like Father, Like Son. I am so proud. ~tears~ and Grins.

Oh the other one is the teenager who went through a serious EMO period. I was horrified at the time but its funny (and relevant now)

Jury is still out on the infant. SHE looks so cute in BLUE. Matches her eyes. We have a lot of donated, dove for, and craigslist finds. she can wear a different outfit a day for years if she doesn't grow, and so far she hasn't. Our cat weighs more and shes almost one.

[Tamara Croft]

Sorry, but this gave me a bit of a giggle.... your 10yr old sounds exactly like mine was at that age... then she started senior school... she went from dressing like a tomboy to extremely girlie... and she used to hate her big sisters clothes too

[Cai]

My sister refused (and still refuses) to wear my handmedowns because they're not girly enough for her.

[BarbaraTalbot]

My sister refused (and still refuses) to wear my handmedowns because they're not girly enough for her.

Thats likely as not the key here. Kinda sibling rivalry and wanting to be her own person.

Sorry, but this gave me a bit of a giggle.... your 10yr old sounds exactly like mine was at that age... then she started senior school... she went from dressing like a tomboy to extremely girlie... and she used to hate her big sisters clothes too

You know, untill recently that would be my hope that she two reverses the trend. Now I hope she's happy. ~growth~

The 12 year old always liked pink and fem, BUT she didnt like her brand conscious fashion plate classmates approach.

Now that she is going into junior high it matters. We live in a very wealthy area and are poor as church mice. She loves time with dad dumpster diving. We found two bags of freshly laundered, folded cute clothes in size zero discarded by a wealthy spoiled college girl.Further finds from Craigslist free section and she is all glammed up and ready for school.

[CaptLex]

Your 10-year-old may outgrow that "phase" or she may not - only time will tell. It's great that you're letting her be who she is at this time with no pressure to conform to the typical girly stuff. All your kids sound great, Barbara, just love them and they'll be happy adults.

[Raychel]

I have yet to see how this will end at our house. My wife came home from work about 2 weeks ago and found our 11 year old boy trying on her panties.

Fortunatly my wife has had experience with men wearing panties, so she did not totally freek out. Just sat down and had a talk with him.

[OC-crossdresser]

We found two bags of freshly laundered, folded cute clothes in size zero discarded by a wealthy spoiled college girl.

i knew i should not of perged! haha sorry had to...i am a size 0 in girls and 14-16 in lil girls LOL

i wish i had kids

[BarbaraTalbot]

i knew i should not of perged! haha sorry had to...i am a size 0 in girls and 14-16 in lil girls LOL



i wish i had kids

pack it up and mail it to 'zona girl!

I'd come dumpster dive your house, but California cops wouldnt like the ride height on my swapped civic.

and if you wish you had kids get some. it was easy..I'll I had to do was get married, see a fertility specialist, get overhauled, knock up the wife (repeatedly) and diaper them, feed and house them for a couple of decades..totally worth it!

[OC-crossdresser]

pack it up and mail it to 'zona girl!

I'd come dumpster dive your house, but California cops wouldnt like the ride height on my swapped civic.

and if you wish you had kids get some. it was easy..I'll I had to do was get married, see a fertility specialist, get overhauled, knock up the wife (repeatedly) and diaper them, feed and house them for a couple of decades..totally worth it!

who is zona girl?????

and i want kids tho i know at this time i can't do that ( no gf no money no job..ya) LOL but one day i am going to be the best dad EVER like my dad!

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

HC drew my attention to this post

I have 4 kids, the youngest (6 months) is with HC, so thus far I can only talk about my other 3, 2 boys aged 10 and 11 and a girl aged 8.

I totally concur with the cross dressing thing, when it comes to the kids. My daughter is typical girl for her age, trying to be all grown up and look more like a teenager than an 8 year old. I expect the next stage to be rebellion and not wanting to be a girl at all.

My eldest always had a thing for my nighties (I wear the silky type) to the point where I had to put him to bed with one at all times. Eventually, he'd help himself to them from my drawer and wear them all day (often with a hairband, lol). I always remember one birthday of mine (I think he was 2 at the time) and my mom had bought 3 or 4 of these nighties, he was allowed to open my gifts and whooped with joy when the nighties were unwrapped. I think I managed to salvage one of them, the rest he kept!

Now he's 11 and getting very pubescent and he has shown us how he can make himself look like a girl. He prefers his hair long, even though I have told him that he has very feminine features and could be mistaken as a girl, he doesn't care. He actually spends time styling his hair in the mirror and can now with the brush of a few fingers style it without looking, in such a way he looks very girly. He appears to like this look, fair enough. If I leave my shoes lying about, he will quite happily put them on and have a walk in them (mind you, he'll have to get his own soon as he's just got bigger in the foot than me, haha).

My other son used to steal my handbags and shoes. I let him have a pair of my shoes (heels of course) and tried him with various bags, but he had to have a proper handbag, eventually I bought him his own to 'play' with. He was never happier than trotting up and down the garden in heels with a handbag over his shoulder, hehe. To this day he keeps stuffed toys and steals his sister's dolls clothes to dress them in. He has a few dressing up outfits, his favourite item though is a cloak (it is supposed to be a Darth Vadar cloak but he rarely wears it with the helmet). He doesn't do a cloak thing with it, but seems to prefer wearing it as a dress and swishing it about as he walks. He also allows his sister to style his hair and dress him in her clothes.

Oh, I could go on, needless to say that it's all perfectly natural and completely normal.

And in this case, I can't blame HC - he's only lived with us for 6 months, tee hee.

I'll keep you posted on the baby!!!

[Robin Leigh]

You're a pretty cool Mum, HCC! I wish you could adopt me. I don't eat much, and I keep my room tidy. And I promise I won't steal any of your silky nighties... well, maybe just one.

Seriously though, there does seem to be some genetic component to TGness. I'm not saying that you are TG, but there seems to be something in your nature that makes you much more TG-friendly than normal. I'm sure the positive atmosphere you provide is a great benefit for your kids; most of us here grew up full of fear of exposing our CD/TG side.

Because of the great secrecy that has always surrounded CDing, there isn't a large body of evidence of CD/TG running in families. But now that we have the Net & forums like this one, we keep hearing stories like this. In fact, I first discovered this forum via a young CDer who'd just accidently discovered that her Dad was also a CDer, and was in a big dilemma over letting Dad know that she knew, and was one, too.



Robin

[Hippy Chic]

You're a pretty cool Mum, HCC! I wish you could adopt me. I don't eat much, and I keep my room tidy. And I promise I won't steal any of your silky nighties... well, maybe just one.

Seriously though, there does seem to be some genetic component to TGness. I'm not saying that you are TG, but there seems to be something in your nature that makes you much more TG-friendly than normal. I'm sure the positive atmosphere you provide is a great benefit for your kids; most of us here grew up full of fear of exposing our CD/TG side.

Because of the great secrecy that has always surrounded CDing, there isn't a large body of evidence of CD/TG running in families. But now that we have the Net & forums like this one, we keep hearing stories like this. In fact, I first discovered this forum via a young CDer who'd just accidently discovered that her Dad was also a CDer, and was in a big dilemma over letting Dad know that she knew, and was one, too.



Robin

Hi Robin, I don't really want to take this thread off topic, but I can assure you this house is a complete mayhem filled madhouse! We do all laugh a lot though. (But she is a pretty cool person all round to be honest)

[Michelia]

My 7 year old went through a phase when he was four and five during which he loved wearing his mommy's clothers. We let him and never said a word to him about it. Only thing we ever commented on was how pretty he was. He looked lovely and got every one confused.

All the "good ole boys" that came to our house got really upset because we let him do this. They said we were turning him into a girl. They always started talking by asking how old our daughter was. We would always have to explain he was a boy. The look on their faces...!

But he never stopped doing boy things or playing with cars and things like that. One day it just all went away. He is very much a boy now in every way and would not get caught with pink or anything girly. I did not CD at the time and never thought I would. Now the tables have been reversed...And even though he sees his daddy dressed to the nines and loves to tell me how pretty I look (I do not quite agree with that assessment but it still feels good), he will not touch any of my things.

strange...

I sometimes wonder if it will ever come back.

Michelia

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

You're a pretty cool Mum, HCC! I wish you could adopt me. I don't eat much, and I keep my room tidy. And I promise I won't steal any of your silky nighties... well, maybe just one.

Seriously though, there does seem to be some genetic component to TGness. I'm not saying that you are TG, but there seems to be something in your nature that makes you much more TG-friendly than normal. I'm sure the positive atmosphere you provide is a great benefit for your kids; most of us here grew up full of fear of exposing our CD/TG side.

Because of the great secrecy that has always surrounded CDing, there isn't a large body of evidence of CD/TG running in families. But now that we have the Net & forums like this one, we keep hearing stories like this. In fact, I first discovered this forum via a young CDer who'd just accidently discovered that her Dad was also a CDer, and was in a big dilemma over letting Dad know that she knew, and was one, too.



Robin

If I'm adopting you, you have to be swapped for one at least (HC is worth 2 kids, lol!).

Interesting you say that about the genetic thing, I've never considered it before but I have just come down from the shower pointing out to HC that my grandmother was ALWAYS since childhood until death known as 'Bill' - this being because she behaved and dressed beyond normal tomboy stuff.

I don't know about being transgender myself, but the thing with being a GG is that the choice is there for me. Sometimes I dress in simple jeans and t-shirt and flat shoes, othertimes I go all pink and girly. The real clinch is that I do have that choice and so whatever I am, I know myself and am happy with myself. I do know that as a child I always wanted 'boys' toys and my mom always refused (thank god for nanny who bought me everything from guns to tubs of plastic insects, lol). When I became a mother, I made the conscious decision to allow my children to all toys, regardless of gender definition. The ex-hubby was never too enamoured with the idea of his boys having painted toe nails pushing their dolls in their prams, but what the hell?

The toys decision for me was one of not encouraging cross dressing but of encouraging rounded individuals with 2 fingers up at what society dictates for gender and sex.

Although, having done gender tests (only online rubbish) before, I do always come out as androgenous.

Even so, the kids still think my purpose in life is to spoil all their fun and ruin their lives - nothing changes!

[Robin Leigh]

Hi Hippy Chic's Chick!

If I'm adopting you, you have to be swapped for one at least (HC is worth 2 kids, lol!).

That sounds fair to me.

Interesting you say that about the genetic thing, I've never considered it before but I have just come down from the shower pointing out to HC that my grandmother was ALWAYS since childhood until death known as 'Bill' - this being because she behaved and dressed beyond normal tomboy stuff.

Wow! That is interesting about your grandmother. My mother has some TG qualities. She can be very feminine, but she's a tall woman & loved playing male parts in highschool plays. She encouraged all her kids to not be trapped by gender roles. She taught me to cook, sew & knit. And she was the first person to dress me up. Still, I don't talk to her about my CDing, but she occasionally drops hints that she knows.

I don't know about being transgender myself, but the thing with being a GG is that the choice is there for me. Sometimes I dress in simple jeans and t-shirt and flat shoes, othertimes I go all pink and girly. The real clinch is that I do have that choice and so whatever I am, I know myself and am happy with myself.

You sound well-balanced in matters of gender presentation, HCC. But, as you point out, as a GG the choice is there for you, whereas for GMs it's not quite so easy to wear femme things without it being seen as a major statement.

I do know that as a child I always wanted 'boys' toys and my mom always refused (thank god for nanny who bought me everything from guns to tubs of plastic insects, lol). When I became a mother, I made the conscious decision to allow my children to all toys, regardless of gender definition. The ex-hubby was never too enamoured with the idea of his boys having painted toe nails pushing their dolls in their prams, but what the hell?

Good ol' Nanny! An ex-gf of mine ended up marrying another CDer. She said her prior experience with me helped her cope with her husband's gender issues. Sadly, he died when they had only been married a few years. However, his young son has developed a distinct preference for pink and loves wearing mummy's shoes & clothes.

One day, his mother was painting his sister's fingernails, and he threw a tantrum until he got his nails painted too. Grandma was not pleased, but that didn't bother him or his mum.

The toys decision for me was one of not encouraging cross dressing but of encouraging rounded individuals with 2 fingers up at what society dictates for gender and sex.

Understood.

Although, having done gender tests (only online rubbish) before, I do always come out as androgenous.

Even so, the kids still think my purpose in life is to spoil all their fun and ruin their lives - nothing changes!

Yes, but they will appreciate it all when they grow up & look back on their childhood.

to you & Hippy Chic

Robin

[DanielMacBride]

I have 4 girls and 3 boys, and 2 of my girls are as girly as can be. Of the other 2, one likes to be androgynous, and the other is a total tomboy - she refuses to EVER wear a dress or skirt, or makeup or any of the other girly things (was always wearing shorts and jeans and overalls even as a toddler).

Of my 3 sons, the middle one is apparently a "normal" boy (but his dad is a bisexual goth with some serious kinks so we will see how "normal" he turns out LOL)....my youngest boy is 3 and ADORES pink, loves girly things and has hair down to the middle of his back. He is always pinching my old girly clothes and dressing up, and is often mistaken for a girl because of his hair and big blue eyes. My 16yo son used to regularly cross dress as a child, up until about 10yrs old, he would wear his sisters' clothes and makeup and let them style his (then mid-back length) hair and do his nails, until they shamed him out of it. Now however, at 16, he has just come out and told me he wants to live, dress and act like a girl!

So I guess there must be some hereditary element in there somewhere....I don't know if there are any transgender or cross dressers in my family besides me, nobody ever talks about that kind of stuff (they are all ULTRA conservative). So that one I may never know....could also be in part due to the fact that I have pretty much raised my children as a single parent so have had to take on both mother and father roles and have raised them pretty much gender neutral, I have tried to avoid sticking them into the "standard" gender roles.

As a result I have 1 girl who wants to be a mechanic (yes, the tomboy LOL), and all my girls are handy with power tools and DIY stuff. The boys can all do laundry and cook, and can sew enough to put a button back on

Daniel

[TreKidation]

It's hardly CrossDressing when a 10 year old doesn't like pink or ribbons and so on ...

Goooooood, why does everyone push such stereotypes like this

[DanielMacBride]

It's hardly CrossDressing when a 10 year old doesn't like pink or ribbons and so on ...

Goooooood, why does everyone push such stereotypes like this

Uhm...whose 10yo are you referring to? And what gender? Presumably someone's 10yo daughter (since you referred to pink and ribbons)?

Daniel (scratching head)

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

It's hardly CrossDressing when a 10 year old doesn't like pink or ribbons and so on ...

Goooooood, why does everyone push such stereotypes like this

No, but it does display that girls are more able to choose a less feminine look and it's perfectly acceptable while a boy (or man) choosing a less masculine look is considered CDing.

[BarbaraTalbot]

especially the family history forward and backward showing some links for Cd tendancy possibly..Somehow I managed not to subscribe to my own thread here! So I missed it recently.

I started it in f to m because it I was thinking about the tomboys happiness at having non girly clothes for school,but the issues with my boys delight with heels is pretty interesting too. I wonder if this had been posted in m-t-f if it would have gotten a few more stories collected, owing to the higher traffic count there.

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

Perhaps post on the MtF forum with a link to here?

[Tamara Croft]

It's hardly CrossDressing when a 10 year old doesn't like pink or ribbons and so on ...

Goooooood, why does everyone push such stereotypes like this

I can't see anything on this thread - and I've read ALL the posts - that mentions any 10yr old being a crossdresser... and since when are CD'ers stereotypes? far from it I'd say..

I recall one of my childrens cousin, a boy, from as young as I can remember, loving all girly things, dolls, anything pretty, clips in his hair, he even spoke kinda camp for a boy.... hard to explain but he did.... I know he was like this right up until he started senior school, now he's a boys boys... football, clothes etc... I think some are a phase and some continue throughtout life and for a parent to support how their children want to be, is really amazing...

[BarbaraTalbot]

I can't see anything on this thread - and I've read ALL the posts - that mentions any 10yr old being a crossdresser... and since when are CD'ers stereotypes? far from it I'd say..

I recall one of my childrens cousin, a boy, from as young as I can remember, loving all girly things, dolls, anything pretty, clips in his hair, he even spoke kinda camp for a boy.... hard to explain but he did.... I know he was like this right up until he started senior school, now he's a boys boys... football, clothes etc... I think some are a phase and some continue throughtout life and for a parent to support how their children want to be, is really amazing...

I think you are right to describe it as a phase. I strongly suspect that my version of it now can be directly traced to my Mom's just absurd over-reaction. I think if children are allowed to express themselves without gender constraints, they will either 'grow out of it' or else be very happy and well balanced trans of maybe pan-gender persons. Either way the best thing to do is just let them be who they are at the time.

I was sharing my story with another CD who has a similar religious background to mine. As a boy he remembers being dressed up for play, but then as has aged being gently encouraged away from the activity. Sounds less traumatic then my experience, but either way, sending the message that something isn't OK sends it in to the closet and doesn't allow it to grow or retreat with the developing person.

[Robin Leigh]

It's hardly CrossDressing when a 10 year old doesn't like pink or ribbons and so on ...

Not exactly (but it would be if a genetic boy was wanting to wear ribbons & lots of pink). But it is gender-variant behaviour for a young girl to insist on not dressing in a way she defines as girly.

In her first post, I believe Barbara was simply describing how several of her children show some signs of gender-variant interest. As for whether this is something deeper, or just a phase, only time will tell, as she remarks in her most recent post.

Having a good environment to have these "gender experiments" in must be a very healthy & positive thing for these kids. And if any of them do turn out to have some kind of TG identity, they will certainly benefit from having grown up in such a nurturing family.

Goooooood, why does everyone push such stereotypes like this

As social creatures, we all get exposed to the stereotypical ideas & attitudes about gender. Most of us here disagree or rebel against various elements of those stereotypes. But stereotypes aren't going away in a hurry. There will always be people wanting to live according to the stereotypes, and that's fine by me, as long as the don't persecute me for not wanting to conform to the stereotypes in their way.



Robin

[Dee Talbot]

It's hardly CrossDressing when a 10 year old doesn't like pink or ribbons and so on ...

Goooooood, why does everyone push such stereotypes like this

I don't think this has anything to do with stereotyping. Especially since these are my children in question. Barb meant the title of the post to be tongue in cheek. We have simply been thinking about and discussing how children make their own choices, and we do not want to make the repressive mistakes that Barb's parents made by overreacting or forcing conformity.

I would never stereotype or shame my children because of personal choices they made. I remember well what it was like to be that age and trying to identify one's place in the grand scheme of things. I don't consider my daughter a cd'r any more than I consider myself to be so. When I was her age, I hated all things girly too. I prefererred to be around boys because girls were "stupid". I even mentioned a time or two, that I felt I was a boy in a girls body. I am an adult now, and know that that was a phase a lot of girls go through. I like being a girl, and feel wholeheartedly to be a girl.

Children come into this world with their own personalities. I have 5. Each of them have surprised me time and time again by things they feel, think, do, enjoy, because I didn't anticipate where they would "go". My job is to be supportive and loving. I guide them on a moral and ethical path, and it is up to them to find who they are in this life. I can only hope that I do my job well.

Dee